8 Acts Of Chivalry To Bring Back
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The more women I talk to, the more I realize that the gentleman is a rare breed. The mission of the New Chivalry Movement is to bring men (and women) together who strive to be the best versions of themselves and love and respect those around them.
As the gentleman has become less prominent, so have the respectful acts that define him.
Here are 8 acts of chivalry we often overlook and should work to bring back.
Giving up your seat.
Whether on a bus or on a crowded subway, giving up your seat to another is a rare but great sign of respect. I always cringe a bit when I see a woman, elderly person, or anyone else worthy of respect – forced to stand while young men remain distracted by their phones. It all comes down to being aware of your surroundings and acting accordingly.
Only one in seven men will offer their seat to a woman on a train or bus.
Pulling out a woman’s chair.
This one, as many others, is simple but rare. You don’t have to run around to your date’s side of the table to make sure you pull out her chair each time, but when convenient, it’s a nice extra touch.
Less than one in five men will regularly pull out a chair for a woman to sit down. That’s under 20%.
Open doors for her.
I have countless articles with this point already in them, but it’s one of the staples of chivalrous respect and probably the easiest to perform, as we all walk through doors every day. I don’t want to make any assumptions, but something tells me the extra few seconds it takes to open a door or let someone walk through first won’t ruin your day.
The same goes for car doors, a woman will appreciate you getting out of the car to open the door for her, or walking around to her side first, when you’re picking her up. It’s amazing to me how many men don’t do this.
Call, don’t text a date invite.
Just the fact that you would take the time to actually call a woman to ask her out on a date will put you lightyears ahead of your competition (of which there is a lot). Plus, you’ll be able to tell how excited or enthusiastic she is (or isn’t) about accepting your offer by actually hearing her voice.
Compliments, compliments, compliments.
I don’t know how many times I’ve heard that it’s a rare occasion for a woman to be complimented in her relationship?
What? Why?
Every guy in a relationship should take the time every day to let his woman know how beautiful he thinks she is.
Walking on the street side of the sidewalk.
The purpose of this lost art is to show your willingness to be splashed instead of a woman should a passing car run through a puddle. Furthermore, in some countries people would throw trash out of windows, and the person walking closer to the building, was less likely to be hit.
It’s an effortless way to show her that you care.
Walking her to her door.
At the end of your date, especially early on in the relationship, walk her safely to her door. This is especially important if she lives in a city. It shows you’re willing to put effort into protecting her and makes her feel safe – two important aspects of building her trust and comfort.
Parking far away? Drop her off first.
If you’re having a hard time finding a parking space close to her destination, offer to drop her off at the door while you go and look for a spot. She may be fine with walking the distance, but it’s a nice gesture to save her the effort, especially if she’s wearing heels.
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As gentlemen in modern times, you automatically stand out from the crowd. These points above are easy and free, but one would be surprised how rarely they actually occur. For those of us who naturally make it part of our daily lives, it’s difficult to picture how someone else couldn’t. But – it happens.
The new era of chivalry is not rooted in the chauvinistic mindset of the past. We have evolved past performing these acts for women because “they can’t do it themselves.”
The new gentleman performs these acts for the right reasons – love, caring, and respect.
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And as a woman, I need to learn to expect and then graciously accept it when a man does these things for me. Nice list – thanks.
Men should do this and this and this, but if a man every even implies that a woman should be expected to do something he is called a sexist pig.
More double standards in this bullshit world.
I understand being decent and considerate, but I don’t understand why it makes any sense for a man to give his seat to a woman who is just as capable of standing.
Women are often expected to wear heels and generally less comfortable clothing. Sometimes it’s a choice and sometimes it isn’t. That’s the bullshit double standard that we have to deal with.
There are also biological reasons women especially appreciate a seat such as pregnancy or menstrual cramps. Medicine can only do so much. You probably won’t be able to tell that she’s dealing with pain and nausea because she’ll be putting a smiling face on it. If you’re so comfortable, keep you seat jerk.
All how you are brought up I guess. If you have no problem with an elderly woman, or man for that matter standing up on while you sit, there is no sense in saying any more. You just don’t get it.
I think it’s best that you don’t reproduce, especially since your name is Dick Fungus. That must be unfortunate.
Even though I do all these stupid things for girls, and for really anyone I open the door or give up a seat. I believe this is common courtesy. What I will say is, what do girls do for guys? I put the seat down in the bathroom, for her obviously. I open the car door for her. I walk her to her door. I walk her to her car if she leaves my place. What exactly do girls do for guys? Don’t tell me they wear heels for us. Haha. Wow. Thanks I guess. So kind of you to do that just for me! When really thats for you more than us. Seriously. What do girls do for guys. I get upset with this because I actually do everything this list says, plus things it doesn’t say. I even make sure she orders first at the restaurant. If she asks me to order for her, I do. I DRIVE TO PICK HER UP FOR ALL DATES! It can just be very one sided. So yeah, maybe Dick Fungus is an ass, but he does make a point. It can be one sided and woman tend to freak out over the notion that a guy would even think such thoughts.
I Agree
Mr. Fungus, although your name is a tad bit off- putting (to say the least) I feel your pain! There is no law that says you MUST show deference to other people, but if you desire to appear strong and intelligent as well as considerate and kind, then you may want to willingly offer your seat to someone that may or may not be as capable as you. If you do not care what others think of you, by all means, stay seated while the elderly person or woman stands. The type of person you are is your choice. I do not think you are a sexist pig, I think you are probably just young and have been jaded by other people’s treatment of you. (Now see…I am being chivalrous to you!)
Chivalrous: 1.(of a man or his behavior) courteous and gallant, esp. toward women.
synonyms: gallant, gentlemanly, honorable, respectful, considerate; More
courteous, polite, gracious, well-mannered, mannerly;
Well said. Probably will get horrible responses but very well said. I’d love to see the writer’s response and those who have responded to this post about the dying breed of gentleman regarding a similar list for women.
Well that’s the thing about chivalry. It’s meant to be one-sided. You don’t really have to agree with it. But even as a female, most of these things are just common manners that I would do for anyone, regardless of gender. And also, I see a lot of people asking what women do for men in return, but I’m not really seeing anyone suggest anything in particular. But maybe that’s just because, like me, they couldn’t think of anything that wasn’t sexist.
Because it’s a nice thing to do…
Men also have more testosterone than women…well, in most cases you big fucking pussy.
I think its really less about men needing to do it for women, and more about humans should at least consider doing it for other humans. Too much selfishness in the world.
I’m guessing you’re single, and with good reason. If you would not be willing to give up your seat for a woman, then yes!! You are a classless pig!! JS
Mr. Fungus, it is indeed so sad that you were not properly raised to respect the ladies who are the weaker sex.. If you try to be a gentleman–you will soon find yourself being so respectful of yourself & enjoy the way you are treated by the ladies whom you open doors for– give up your seat—walk to the door– pull out her chair for her too. Everyone around you will also notice & give you respectful glances.. It sounds as if you are so bitter toward the ladies which exudes your lack of good breeding…I do hope you never meet my remaining single daughter.. However it is not too late to take courses in Good Manners. It would enhance your career & allow you to enjoy a happier life.. tsk tsk tsk
I find this article attempting to keep the double standards that fight against equal rights for women. As a man, I do everything in my power to break the patriarchy, but it’s these double standards that keep us from making great progress. I mean, look at Dawn’s reply to Dick Fungus
“willingly offer your seat to someone that may or may not be as capable as you.”
Just the fact that being a woman should already spark the idea that she is not as capable as a man may be. Women should be aware, if you want to be treated as a strong individual, it means trying to break these stereotypes rather then enforce old ones. This isn’t to say that those physically less capable pretend that they are in lesser need. Pregnant woman and Elderly women, as well as physically disabled women deserve the seats, but not more than physically disabled men and elderly men. Being a strong woman means that sometimes you have to stand, just as sometimes you must sit, equal to men.
And also, I’m not sure to whomever made the “women must sometimes wear heels” argument, I really understand your struggle, but shouldn’t we work on breaking the gender expectations rather than trying to create more double standards to “make up” for the inequalities now?
As for the men and women that post here, I respect your opinions, but please see that Both men and women should do good for eachother, regardless of gender? Open the door for a man, open the door for a woman. Don’t worry about what’s in their underwear, just treat the people you love with the same respect that you think you deserve.
Your handle says it all! What an embarrassment to your Mother! I would like to think she raised you better but the fungus on the head you think with killed your brains cells!
Liz Ann, I’ve heard for the last three decades that women are equal and other such feminist claptrap. You want to be equal? So be equal. Stand without complaint, just like the equal-to-a-man that you are.
It makes me sad that you have such a negative view of such chivalrous acts. When I go out with my boyfriend, I really appreciate the small things, as I believe all people who have nice things done for them should. Holding the door, letting me walk through first, etc. Personally, I had a history with abusive relationships, and the smallest acts of chivalry go a long way in convincing me that I will be respected and taken care of. Just my two cents 🙂
Yes, I have a problem with Chivalry, but I believe that many of you out there do not understand us. While I have a problem with Chivalry, I have absolutely no problem with kindness to women. I truly love and respect my girlfriend, and that respect goes to almost every woman I meet. I do nice things for both her, and the women around her. The difference is, I extend that kindness to the the men I meet as well. There is no equality to be found in chivalry. Sure, when you have half of the population offering you seats and opening your doors and paying for you, it sounds nice, but it really keeps the gender barrier strong.
Ladies, please imagine a world where you are expected to wait on men; hand and foot. When you see a man standing, you are to offer your seat and stand yourself. You are expected to hold the door open for him. You are to pull his chair out for him.
This is not the kind of world you want to live in, right? To tell the truth, this is not the world I want to live in at all, and the thought of such a world frightens me. Perhaps it’s just my own idealism, but I Imagine a world where men and women alike perform these deeds for each other. Woman holds the door open for her husband; The woman pulls his chair for him. The idea of Chivalry and that this is only to be expected by women really hurts this idea, and such it hurts me. I consider myself a feminist, however please know that feminism stands for all equal rights, women’s, men’s, all races. I hope that you all respect my opinion at least if you do not fully agree with it, although I’m sure everybody can see that there is some truth to what I say.
Well said Liz Ann!!!!
And that is why you call it a bullshit world! Because people dont have respect,morals,values,pride,etc.Its not about being male or female. Its just common courtesy.
Although I understand what you mean, and agree that you *should* be able to expect such treatment – I was raised this way, being an older Texas fella with country roots – I’d like to remind you that to “expect” such treatment is a sure-fire recipe for disappointment; rather, if you “appreciate” and make note of such behavior, your tolerance will make life easier on you while still influencing those around you that aren’t too dense to be taught. My Grandma, my Great-Aunts, and a few others I knew when much younger were among the last generation of the Southern Ladies, and their quiet and tolerant demeanor never masked the power and strength of their characters. They had expectations certainly, but the shortcomings of others never affected nor diminished them in the slightest. Class, true class, is still not lost; it’s just so diluted in today’s self-centric society.
VERY well said!
No. That selfish. I know this sill article was old, but still can not belief this article was in 2014. If woman,s role in chivalry is demanding, so I have right to have different opinion and NOT want to practice it. At least chivalry concept make me thankful I am gay, so I do not worry about “girl prefer chivalrous man”, blahblahblah.
“Giving up your seat”. It’s a small thing, but goes such a long way! Wonderful post…thanks!
ughhh I LOVE this! Men who perform these acts of chivalry are so seldomly recognized it breaks my heart (no thank you from people as you hold the door open, from parents of the girl, etc). These are staples of a good and loving relationship! I love to see my man do all of these things on a daily basis.
Graciamaria,
Thank you so much for being honest enough to say that. This is the unfortunate, unspoken reason that chivalry is fading and will continue to die out. There is, as one person put it, an overwhelming sense of entitlement that makes some women almost rude about it.
I’v’e been several seconds in front of women going into a building and stood there holding the door while they walked through without even acknowledging I was there, much less saying thank you. Often those that do say something are so mean about it that you wish they would have just kept it. Many women today are so self-absorbed that they think every man is out to sleep with them.
So no, they don’t walk around with smiles on their faces I’m afraid. You say hello passing them on the sidewalk or hold a door open and more often than not you’ll be met with a mean expression if they look at you at all. There are certainly women out there who are kind and nice and genuinely appreciative of these acts of kindness. But they too are a dying breed, and that’s the conversation we never have because we’re too busy blaming the entire fall of chivalry on men, along with every other thing that is wrong with the whole male-female dynamic.
Gentlemen continue to be gentlemen in spite of the indifference and lack of appreciation because they were born and bred that way. But not everyone is wired that way and many men simply don’t bother anymore because of how they’re treated when they make the effort. And while I will always be a chivalrous man, I think if we want to see the gentleman and chivalry make a come-back we would do well to start having conversations about how to ACCEPT chivalry as a lady.
Hmm, good inspiration to write a blog post.. (pens into agenda). I’m on it! Will be writing a response. Check back with me at senoritagracia.wordpress.com. Don’t worry it will only die out if we let it!
I completely agree. I’ve seen this too, and I’m sorry some women behave this way… I don’t think its really a gender thing. I think we all just need to try being more humane toward one another… ?
Ron, a lady is worthy of chivalry. I agree with you as far as that goes. However, a woman (who is equal to a man) is unworthy of it and deserves no special consideration of any kind. That is the price of equality.
[…] have to behave like one if you want to be treated as such). Blogger James Michael Sama lists the 8 Acts of Chivalry to Bring Back. Here’s what we thought of his […]
I want to read this again and again… Chivalry is sexy:)
These kinds of articles really are aggravating and grate at me because they attempt to re-brand old chauvinistic traditions as something we should accept in the modern era, as something we should accept in light of society’s new emphasis on gender equality. As long as people don’t attempt chivalry for chauvinistic reasons and as long as we ignore he history, it so goes, the practice of chivalry is fine and recommended.
But why these particular acts? Because of history! Why don’t women do this for men instead of the other way around? Either because of history or because people want us live in a sexist society where differing expectations for men and women are continually repeatedly justified. Why why why chivalry today? Because women want it. Why? Because women are weaker. We cannot escape the specter that will naturally pop up in the back of our minds because of history that it is because women are weaker.
And you cannot expect men to be chivalrous and not expect something in return. We cannot expect to place expectations on a singled out group of people and not expect those people not to feel resentful or want something in return. And men will want something in return from women; if chivalry is expected of men, men will feel justified in wanting to put added constraints on women.
So I really dislike it when people cheer these articles on.
What a ball buster! Why is it such a horrible thing for a man to show kindness to a woman? Who cares about the history behind it, it’s just polite to show caring and compassion to others. Get over yourself Jean.
Why is the expectation only that men should show these acts of kindness to women, though? Why is the idea that a particular brand of kindness is expected of one sex but not the other? Should a woman not give up her seat to a man, or open the door for him if she’s in a convenient position to do so, or pull out his chair? If this is really about kindness, then it shouldn’t matter if it’s a man or a woman acting in such a way–it should be about a person being polite and caring and compassionate to another person.
The fact of the matter is we (men and women) are in fact different in intrinsic ways and attempting to conceal that in the name of equality is the wrong way to try to truly achieve equality. If you truly would date a man wearing a dress and high heels and make-up, since we’re really all identical, then carry on with this crusade. If not, then allow a man who recognizes that those womanly things make it less comfortable for her to stand on a bus, or pull out a man’s chair, or open a door, to be chivalrous and care for his woman. She can equally show affection and attention in womanly ways that make her no weaker or subservient to a man, than he is subservient to her when pulling her chair out as if her were her butler.
SP, your reply is all about WHAT NOT TO DO TO A WOMAN!! You are a product of thinking men and women are equal. The sexes are not the same, and thank god I live in Texas where men of all races & creeds hold open doors for all women, pull seats out, hold open car doors, and do all the above….women are the fairer sex. We always will be. That is why a real MAN treats a woman with a sign of respect. As a woman my obligation of decency is to those elderly folks, disabled folks, or children. I give up my seats to all of the above, if they include men. I help blind people get to an elevator. It is called being human. But society still has rules on how real men treat real women. The lie of feminism has made our world full of girly men who are weak and a bunch of pussies.
LeighLeigh – go tell that to all the ball-busting feminists who “need a man like a fish need a bicycle.”
Both history and science have shown that only women can give birth. The act of chivalry is to protect and pay respect to woman as they represent the continuation of our species.
Excellent!!!
So only women who can have kids deserve it? What if she is infertile? Should I ask about her fertility and plans for children before I give up my seat?
What about the other 7-9 decades of her life? Pregnancy is a (admittedly sometimes debilitating) 9-month condition. Healing after pregnancy/birth is usually another few months. So if she has 2-3 kids – an average middle class family, say – that’s 3-5 years of her life at most.
You’re saying she should be saddled with all of these expectations in order to get you to open her doors because for less than a decade of her life, she might be pregnant? How about you just get up for the sweating, tired, overweight, unattractive, frazzled, ticked-off pregnant women when you see them (instead of just the pretty women who catch your eye, as most men do), and not make such a ruckus over it now?
Who said I would get up for the pretty women either? They have legs with muscles. They can stand.
And I don’t know what expectations you are talking about.
I’ll give up my seat for somebody who seems like they need it, not because they were born with a vagina between their legs.
I might reconsider that if one time I got offered a seat after working my rear off all day, covered in dirt and grime with every body part aching, being sweaty, tired, frazzled, and ticked off. Amazingly enough no woman under the age of 60 has ever offered. Men have, of all ages have though.
“you cannot expect men to be chivalrous and not expect something in return”
wow, really? so all men expect something in return for being considerate? you have a very low opinion of men if what you wrote is really how you feel.
many of the acts this article is speaking about just come down to being a decent human being.
Why hold the door open… because it is being considerate. I hold the door open for anyone male or female whether I know them or not because it is considerate.
Why open the car door… by the way I usually open the car door for my passengers (regardless of gender) if I am driving…. again because it is being considerate.
Why give up your seat on the bus/train/subway….. do I really need to repeat myself…. I do not ride public transportation very often, however on the one occassion that I did, an older gentleman got on the bus and had no place to sit without having to manuver all the way to the back… so I gave up my seat, because it was the nice thing to do.
see a pattern here?
quick clarification, I have used public transportaion more than once, but there was only one occassion where someone was in need of a seat.
There are a lot of men here pointing out that its unfair for them to be chivalrous and not get something in return. (I think chivalry is just manners and not that onerous, but I don’t inherently disagree with them.) The issue is that what is expected of women in return for “chivalry” is often ridiculously burdensome by comparison. I enjoy getting dressed with an eye to what is comfortable, what I feel cute in for me (not a random strange guy), and what will fit the day’s itinerary. I’m not giving that up so I can have strange men open my doors. I enjoy getting a healthy four-five figure paycheck that I worked my self ragged in grad school to be able to earn – I’m proud of my knowledge and skill set – I’m proud of my job – I’m happy that I have financial security – I’m relaxed in my marriage because we don’t fight about money – I have my own set outside of our joint that I can do whatever I want with, be it charity or handbags or give to my family members, and the husband doesn’t care. I’m not giving that up so I can have a guy push my chair in.
Now if a guy wants to hold the door or push the chair? Go for it! Thanks! But unless all you’re looking for in return is that I get the next door for you, you’re going to be sorely disappointed. So feel free to just skip it all and fall back on the good manners that I assume your mom taught you to show EVERYONE. Those will work just fine.
What a complete moron. Your the type of woman who I’ll open a door for because I got to it first and you walk through without so much as a thank you. I open doors for everyone not just women. Why, because I was raised to respect people, if your a woman I do it not for recognition or expecting anything. I do it out of respect. Its people like you that are bringing this world into complete inconsideration for others. And punks running around thinking its ok to call women bitches. So I really dislike hearing idiots like you spout your gender equality and metro sexual ideals to the rest of us.
You should pay better attention. This was written by a man named James.
You should pay better attention he is speaking to Jean the poster above.
Annnd this is why chilvary is dead.Men were happy to be chilvarous in the old days and women appreciated it. But women like Jean just have to make a big deal out of every little thing to make sure someting is not “chauvinistic.”
Also, it’s funny how articles like these are becoming more and more common as women realize the BS feminism has presented the past few decades. A light bulb seems to have gone off saying “uh oh! Men are not paying attention to us and are actually treating us like equals! Yeaa…about the feminism thing.” LOL.
Please explain to me how the support and fight for the right to vote; the right to own property; the right to not be considered property; the right to actually have a peer on a jury of peers; the right to an education; the right to not be a child bride; the right to not be victim of female genital mutilation; the right to not be a victim of rape; the right to have equal media coverage; the right to have equal government representation; the right to have at least* equal representation during political discussions about issues that only affect women; the right to provide a political or intellectual opinion during an interview without having to first discuss wardrobe choices; the right to be successful without risking “sex appeal” overshadowing accomplishments; and the right to walk down the street without risking being cat called are all bullshit? (This is not an exhaustive list, but merely some main issues supported by feminism.)
@Alexandra. LOL
Right to vote, right to property? 1910s at the latest.
Right to not be a victim of FEMALE genital mutilation? It was pretty much banned the first afternoon everyone heard about it. How about genital mutilation in general? Oh right, keep chopping up guys penises and no one cares.
Rob Michael, women gained the right to open bank accounts without a male cosignor in the 1970s. They gained the right to keep their job if they conceived. They couldn’t get credit cards in their own names. They weren’t allowed to run marathons. Those all became possible in the 1970s.
http://msmagazine.com/blog/2013/05/28/10-things-that-american-women-could-not-do-before-the-1970s/
So your fine with male genital mutilation?
RM, I assume you refer to male circumcision? It’s not comparable to female genital mutilation in scope or the short- or long-term health ramifications at all. (http://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/2012/jul/29/the-big-issue-male-circumcision) However, I can see why some men oppose it and as it’s their body, I fully support their right to do so. I don’t have a strong opinion on it because (a) I’m not a guy, so I can’t speak from experience as to the pros and cons of the practice, and (b) I don’t feel it’s my place to tell some man what he can and can’t do with his own body. If my husband felt strongly about the matter (he doesn’t) and if we’d had a son (instead of our little girl), I’d have given him the deciding vote on the matter because I just don’t have the stake in it or the personal experience to make that decision for a guy.
And in case you were wondering, I expect men to extend me the same courtesy when it comes to issues involving the female body (particularly my own).
How sad and it shows how disrespectful women have actually changed a generation……. FOR THE BAD!! To give up your seat is respect, to open a door is respect, not history and if it is history why do we only pick the bits of history out that show our total lack of manners and respect. I grew up with these as part of my value system, I also put them into my children as a value system. My 30 year old daughter to this day will help an elderly person who has parcels across the road and carry them for them. To elucidate the histrionics in what is a value system then totally exposes the value system you yourself live by! I will add another one and I have stood and spoken with a loud voice to men standing at a baggage carousel that it is a sad day when a mature woman as myself has to help and elderly man/ woman off with her bags because their value system does not allow for it! If you think its about women being weaker you have actually exposed the very issue that is driving your behaviour. Sad, sad post that it is all about you give me something and I will then give you….. How the heck were you brought up? You need a slap from your mumma girl. My boys not brought up with history but a value that says that woman in front of you is priceless no matter who she is and you respect her or Mumma will know!!!
Right on ALW! And while im here the ones asking what we as women do for them.. we gave birth to you for one! Im the one that cleans the toilets in my house where you guys miss. I dump the ashtrays that you cant get another butt in.I mowed the yard because its my day off . I wash the cars inside and out. Anytime but especially thanksgiving i cook alot and invite single friends that have nowhere to go. I do all the clean up after and i dont mind because they all appreciated it! Just like when a man holds a door open for me,etc.And i always say thank you! Its all so simple. And yes we are different. Thats why we are called men or women. Im not a religous person but God created a man and a woman…Keep holding those doors open gentlemen!
Apparently Jean, no man has ever shown you honor and respect. It,s a christian virtue for men to love their wife as Christ loved us in that he laid down his life for us. For men to do these things is to honor the woman your with. Has nothing to do with wanting something in return because that will come naturally.
Respect to women is a Christian virtue? Really?
Timothy 2:12: “I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, she must be silent.”
Ephesians 5:22: “Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord”
robert, if Jean has never had a man show her honor and respect, most likely it’s because she’s the stereotypical shrieking harpie feminist that has contributed to the death of chivalry that has been lamented in this forum by so many.
Thanks for the excellent example of proof-texting, Matt.
Jean, you are the type of woman that irritates the hell out of me. Why is it so difficult to accept kindness and chivalry?? Women like you are the reason that chivalry is dying!!! Get over yourself and accept kind gestures. Women are not weak, nor are the chivalrous men who perform these acts. I have been told too many times that I am too nice. How can one be too nice?? Just saying……
To Matt H .I can do this all day long…Ephesians 5:31 A man shall be joined with his wife, and they two shall be one flesh! Peter 3:8 Be ye all of one mind, having compassion one at another, love as brethen, be pitiful, be courteous.
Chauvinism is alive and well here.
Sorry Jean but I must disagree a bit. First I always open the door for my wife as a form of caring for her. No, it doesn’t imply that she is unable to do so for herself, it simply is a way of me serving her. Second I never expect anything in return. This is no different than caring for a child. I gladly serve my children because of my love for them, not because I expect something in return. Once you figure out that truly loving the right person (don’t miss that qualifier) is all about serving and caring for them, the rest of the relationship just falls into place. I want to serve and protect her because I cherish the person that she is and truly love her.
Jean,
as a man, I do these things out of respect, caring, and love. I dont have to but I do. And I expected nothing in return. Infact, I often wander if it is even noticed at all. nevertheless i was raised to honor and cherish the women in my life, it is not about being noticed. And I should hope that when a man performs these acts for you, that you appreciate it. Because in that moment, that man is treating you with the love, respect, and admiration you deserve.
Yes in todays society, men and women are equals. But lets face the facts that in relationships, men and women have different roles to play. These roles are not a concrete one set fits all, but should be discussed in the relationship.
You are not all men. What women are telling you is that, as part of our life experience, when men offer something, the majority of men (husbands aside, perhaps – or perhaps not) generally expect something in return. You might be an exception, and that’s fantastic. We all know exceptions exist. But telling women – or a woman – that what she experienced is not, in fact, what she’s experienced because you know what she’s experienced … it’s disrespectful. And you’re incorrect. It’s the equivalent of me, a Caucasian, walking up to an African-American or a Middle Eastern person and telling them that their experiences of racism didn’t happen because I personally am not someone who would ever act that way.
I understand what Jean is trying to say. I believe that she does not mean that men want something from that particular female, but to all females as a whole. When you agree to keep the gender roles, it becomes difficult to fight against inequalities. Sure, holding a door open for a woman shows respect. So does that mean that women that do no hold doors open for men do not respect men? What’s wrong with a woman doing these things for a man?
it may be true that women and men are different, But I promise you all one thing. RESPECT is gender neutral. I show respect and kindness by doing these things for women, but I don’t expect a woman who I respect to serve me. I want the door held open for me. Or if I’m tired, maybe she could stand. It depends on the situation, not whether your genetals are an innie or an outie. I treat my girlfriend the way I want to be treated and I am treated the same. I show my respect for her by now showing her chivalry, but kindness. Gender-neutral kindness. Sure I expect kindness in return, but that’s about it.
Dear Jean, You do not seem to understand. Men and women are *not* equal. You could drink a mint julep from a mason jar or a crystal goblet. Mason and Crystal are made with differences in design and strength of character, but both are perfectly capable of carrying drinks. So you are offended because you think women are weaker? I do not know the exact tolerances for average jars and goblets, but I know that pure Crystal is way more valuable, more easily broken, and prettier. Mason requires less maintenance, is way more durable, and rather sturdy. But, you may insist that you want it all! Ok, go for it: http://hillbillyglassware.com/.
Chivalrous is *not* the same as chauvinistic. Perhaps defining terms would help?
I found what appears to be your definition of chivalry on urbandictionary.com: Something women complain is dead even though it cannot logically exist in an equal society, which is something women wanted. It’s one or the other.
A better definition is found at merriam-webster.com: The system of values (such as loyalty and honor) that knights in the Middle Ages were expected to follow. An honorable and polite way of behaving especially toward women.
I *can* kill my own snakes, but if my husband is around, I prefer to let him. He *likes* killing snakes, especially when he can protect me from the loathsome creatures! Perhaps the most difficult thing about chivalry is that some women have a real problem being ladies?
Mason jars and crystal are not men and women. A more apt comparison might be the CEO and the janitor of a company. Both are equally vital to the smooth functioning of the business. They’re equal in importance, perhaps. But they are not treated equally.
In your scenario, as the woman, you’re the janitor. You’re paid about 1/100th as much. You work overnight hours. You are made fun of by the school kids when they come through on field trips. When a worker goes crazy and smears excrement all over the walls, you get called in to clean it up. No one really bothers to learn your name. You work in silence, go home, and worry about the bills. Your kids will have to pay their own way through college. The CEO vacations on his own island nears Turks and Caicos. His kids go to ivy league schools. You’re both equally vital to the running of the company, but no one would actually say you were the same or equal.
But by golly, he holds the door for you when he happens to see you coming. He invited you to the company Christmas party and pulled out the chair for you. He doesn’t do that for the other CEOs.
I let me husband kill snakes too. Or our dogs for the garter snakes. That doesn’t mean the dogs are heads of household, and my husband does it out of love, not in exchange for me serving as his unpaid support staff.
@ Jamie
Why were you making fun of the janitor as a school kid on field trips? That is a mean thing to do. I have known many people who work as custodians and I too was once a school kid, and I guess it was maybe because I had a single mom who worked 2 jobs to support 2 children, that I never made fun of the janitor who was working his butt off to put food on the table for his family.
And why does the woman in your scenario have to be the janitor? There are many female CEOs…of a lot of the world’s largest companies. There are women CEOs now at GM, HP, PepsiCo, IBM, Xerox, Lockheed Martin, Sempra Energy, Yahoo, DuPont…just to name a few. Please do not try to create a scenario that is so lopsided salary-wise that you try to mirror that same lopsidedness with men and women. Heck, even Condoleezza Rice and Darla Moore are now members at the previously men only Augusta National Golf Club. Of course men and women are not treated equally by all and there is still a long way to go before men and women are actually treated equally in all facets of life, but if we keep hyperbolizing the situation to show that men and women are treated as differently as the CEOs and janitors, we all are going nowhere in this society.
I did not have parents who were CEOs OR janitors…and I still had to pay my way through college and grad school like most people.
I also like that you know the island of Turks & Caicos. Apparently you either have been there because you are a CEO of a company (because only CEOs can afford to go to Turks & Caicos) or you have been there because it is not that exclusive and even a janitor could afford to visit there if she or he saved up for the trip like the rest of us.
And why are you attacking Elizabeth Colville Holt above? She never suggested that your husband is chivalrous towards you by killing snakes … in exchange for you serving as his unpaid support staff.
The fact is that some guys are still chivalrous and some guys are not. But there are also quite a few women that are actually rude when you are chivalrous towards them. I have actually had a woman tell me “I can get my own door thank you”…and I was holding the door for the person that happened to be directly behind me as I was walking through a doorway.
@ Sean Scott.
Reading comprehension, my friend. I did not say I made fun of the janitor. I did have never made fun of a janitor. I have heard stories of these things from janitors whom I’ve befriended, as well as from coworkers, friends, neighbors, etc. However, I always talk to the janitor and staff because their work is valuable. It never hurts to learn someone’s name. (Or read a post more carefully ;).
You seem very literal. However, the CEO-janitor scenario was an analogy. Both are equally vital to having a professional, smoothly running company (just as complementarians believe both men and women are equally vital to having a smoothly running marriage). However, one is given a leadership role and one is left to clean up after others, so despite the equal important of their presence, their actual treatment and valuation remains very unequal (similar to the way that “equality” plays out in a complementarian or overly “chivalrous” scenario).
I’m sure you could create a scenario in which the women works as the CEO (the leader, the recognition, the spokesperson) and the man works as the janitor (house-cleaning, wrangling kids all day, no income, no recognition, etc.). But it remains the exception. And most men are not quick to suggest that reversal of roles as a solution to their wives’ exhaustion or discontent with the monotonic tasks of staying home all day with kids … or the incredible stress of balancing home demands with all of the dualities and double standards that she faces at work.
All I can say, after reading your response, is that reading comprehension is obviously not a gender-specific skill. I hope you get your T&C vacation someday. And that the occasional rudeness toward you from a woman will not actually do much (just as the frequent rudeness, arrogance, self-interest, and inappropriately sexual remarks made to most women by men – including those in this thread – don’t kill them).
Not old chauvinistic traditions…just good manners. The heck with gender equality if women cannot be treated respectively on a daily basis and put at a higher level of consideration. Gender equality means equal pay for equal work, ability to get any job, earn any degree, and hold any position of power. These acts described in this list takes gender equality beyond…to treat women respectively and thoughtfully. If a guy opens a door for you or gives up his seat for you…YOU can decline if it insults YOU. Myself, these “chauvinistic traditions” make confident women feel special and makes the man looks like a really nice guy.
Hear hear!!! I really don’t understand why guys complain. I mean, if no guys do it because chivalry is dead, then hold the door, impress the girl, and enjoy! If she doesn’t want you holding the door, then don’t. No skin off your back either way.
Unless, of course, you were expecting to get something out of it ….
LOL – wow. So much to work with here.
“women cannot be treated respectively on a daily basis and put at a higher level of consideration.”
Exactly why should women be “put at a higher level of consideration”?
“makes the man looks like a really nice guy.”
When’s the last time you wanted to madly fuck a “really nice guy”?
It isn’t just history. It has to do with the natural urge that men have – or used to have, until feminists tried to beat it out of them – to protect and care for their women. This has nothing to do with who is stronger – in some ways women are, and in other ways men are. But too many women are unwilling to admit that, so they find it offensive that a man would go out of his way to care for her.
Are women really exempt from the desire to protect and care for their loved ones?
And if all men have this burning need to protect and care for women in general, rape and assault and catcalling and street harassment would be nonentities, right?
I somewhat agree. I do feel that many need to remember common courtesy, especially as it seems lacking in the younger generations, but I am just as likely to hold the door open for someone else, compliment others, and especially give up my seat for someone who needs it more. I think if we want to look at equality it should start with women doing the things we want to see our men do. its only fair.
I must say that I don’t feel demeaned when a man is kind enough to give up his seat for me, and he does have a right to expect something in return, my “thank you”! As a woman, if I see an elderly person standing you can bet I’m going to offer my seat. It really doesn’t have as much to do with chivalry as with manners. I was taught to respect others, and especially those older than I. But respect for others is something that is sorely lacking in today’s world. Last but not least you must concede that, on average, women are physically weaker than men. It does not mean women are lesser beings, it just means we have different physical capabilities. Men can’t conceive, gestate & carry a baby – it doesn’t make them weaker, just different.
Last but not least, from a Christian perspective……go study, and I mean REALLY study, what the Bible has to say in regards to women. Jesus Christ honored women – in an era when women were considered property. Moreover, husbands are commanded to love their wife as Christ loved the church ie: to die for her if necessary. Christ did not coming as a reigning king but as a humble servant – and so are men called to be for their wives. Furthermore wives are called “equal heirs to the kingdom of heaven” with men. Women are commanded to respect their husbands – don’t know about you but I have no problem respecting a man who gives up his life, whatever form that may take, for me.
There are those who will always find a reason to feel put upon. There will always be those who try to demean others, who try to use their position to intimidate or otherwise coerce someone they consider in a lower position. Some of those will be men – some of those will be women, it is not gender specific. As I said previously, it comes down to respect – for others and for yourself!
I strongly recommend “Jesus Through Middle Eastern Eyes” by Kenneth Bailey. Great breakdown of the culture in which Jesus lived, it’s views and treatment of women, and the shockingly revolutionary way in which Jesus both lived alongside women, but incorporated women and their lives/concerns equally into his parables and teaching (which was absolutely not done at that time – much like many complementarian churches today).
Very well put T Paulsen, I couldn’t agree more with you.
I’m right there with you.
1. Men who want to be chivalrous? Be chivalrous. Or, as we call it today, have good manners. Women can do it. Men can do it. You don’t need our permission. Or, as men are so fond of referencing, the permission of the one woman one time who snapped at them when they held the door for her. Did she snap? Poor guy. Listen, so walking to the mailbox means I get honked horns and catcalls (in sweats and a sweatshirt if you were wondering). Wearing heels at work means I get comments from the guys there who think my appearance is their business. If I can handle that, you can handle a snappy chick without throwing all the manners momma taught you out the window.
2. The reason you see these types of articles – rather than men just thinking, “I’d like to be more chivalrous” and then popping up to offer their seat to the pregnant woman – is because there IS a trade-off and guys want to make sure women are holding up their end of the bargain. The wish that men could be more chivalrous tends to travel in tandem with the wish that women “would be more ladylike.” What does that mean? It doesn’t mean pointing out the different standards for women and men at work (especially for parents). It doesn’t mean insisting your husband help with the housework and laundry so that you can keep the career that you spent 8 years in post-grad and hundreds of thousands of dollars to earn. No, it means fading gently and calmly into a support-staff position without discussion, without considering whether it’s good for you as an individual, because he’s a “man” and you’re a “woman” and the roles have been set for you.
3. If I do have to choose between a man holding the door and all the “feministy” things – like voting, financial security, etc. – guess which one is the wisest choice. A note: there were three or four regular waitresses at the restaurant my family frequented when I was a teen. They were all women in their 50s or older. They often worked double shifts. They all had the same story: They’d married and stayed home and had a couple of kids and raised them and were housewives. They took pride in their homes, poured their hearts into their kids, and made their husband’s career success their own mission. Then their husbands either had midlife crises or affairs (all were religious couples, church going, etc.). Got divorced. The kids were older and courts only award limited alimony in many cases. So they were working without a retirement day in sight. It happens. Men aren’t retirement plans and they aren’t insurance plans and their career isn’t your own. Spending your golden years waiting tables is a sorry trade for opened doors and pulled out chairs – and any man who asks you to make that is not acting out of love.
I agree that that is a horrible way for women to live, but instead of enforcing that system, we can change it! I fight for women to live equal strong lives in which they don’t have to fade into their husband’s shadow. The very thought makes me feel sick. Fight the culture and society that enforces this kind of thinking!
@ Daniel – unrelated to this post, but I have found your posts here to be refreshing and encouraging. The world would be a better place if more men thought like you!
So LeighLeigh, you are thankful that you “…live in Texas where men of all races & creeds hold open doors for all women, pull seats out, hold open car doors, and do all the above….women are the fairer sex.” I believe that you are thankful that you live in Texas. Of course, what you don’t say is that you are thankful that your extreme sense of entitlement is fully indulged by the men of the Lone Star State.
You claim, “…a real MAN treats a woman with a sign of respect.” Are you a real man? If not, then you don’t know what you’re talking about. A man will show respect to a lady. But since women are now the equal of men, women deserve no special consideration of any kind. Women wanted equality. Well, women should be careful what they wish for, because they just might get it.
Equality would also mean men treating women with the respect that they usually show toward other men. Presumably you don’t check out other men’s body parts and address them in a paternalistic manner. You don’t suggest that they “show me a smile!” or, during conversations of import, say, “I really should be talking to your spouse about this.” When your male coworkers insist on a path forward with which you disagree, you don’t label them a b1tch. You don’t judge them for interrupting, for insisting on a raise because they “deserve” a raise. You don’t assume that, because they’re parents, they’ll be less dedicated to the job, despite their doing everything possible to show you otherwise. When they come back from their wedding, you don’t ask them over and over if they plan to have kids. You don’t suggest to Mike that he wear contacts because you don’t like the way he looks in glasses, or to Bill that he wear the first two buttons undone instead of just one “because it looks more professional” while you stare at his chest. You don’t insist that your male coworker do a manager’s job tasks without promoting him to manager, and then bring in a woman, breathe a sigh of relief, and instantly make her manager – “she’s really going to whip this into shape” – even though she has less experience, lower reviews, and is less qualified. You don’t slow your car down to stare at a male jogger as he runs on the sidewalk by himself. If you start a conversation with a guy and he doesn’t respond, you don’t get rude and snappy at his non-response and then call him a “b1tch” so everyone can here.
Get rid of all those little inequalities that us women deal with daily – treat us as equals with no “special considerations” – and we’ll open our own doors. Thanks.
Jamie, it appears that your rationalization hamster has achieved warp speed. That’s one major colon blow that you expelled.
Equality means that women have to deal with the world the way it is, as men do. Equality means that women have to deal with life the way it is, as men do. No whingeing, no complaining, no moaning and no groaning. Equality means realizing that everything you’re complaining about in your response is nothing more than a First World problem and your complaints are actually condescending and insulting to those in society who are suffering for real.
@ Bob, speaking of colon blows, I did read your post and recommend a class in logic and a quick study of gender equality in both first world cultures and in third world cultures. For the third-world, you can start with research on Afghanistan’s new law which will restrict women’s ability to prosecute the crimes committed against them by family members (over 90% of the crimes against women there fall into this category). My time is valuable and I don’t waste it debating with those who aren’t interested enough in this topic to educate themselves, but I would be open to debate once you’ve had the chance to read a few articles that fall outside of your current worldview on women.
Actually, as a guy who does all of these, it brings me great joy just to be able to show kindness to others. I have never expected anything in return other than a smiling face and even when I don’t get that I’m still happy knowing I am serving others selflessly. It’s not all about me, me, me. It’s about putting others before myself that truly brings happiness to my heart.
Maybe if women would take a little pride in the way they dress and talk they could easily get these nice compliments from their men. Why should I be so respectful to a women when she dresses like a slut or uses the F word with every other breath? What is good for one is good for the other.
True, but men are called to lead by example!
Why should I be respectful of men who sag their pants or wear tight khakis or shirts that stretch open across their bellies?
The same reason that I should be respectful of land whales with an equally oversized sense of entitlement.
Given that you lead by calling them land whales, your post remains a massive fail.
Jamie just because you desperately try to get the last word of witticism doesn’t make you right and shouldn’t give you the speculation that the men are shrinking to the shadows to hide from your light of perceived self aggrandizing truths. Your post was more offensive than his for the simple reason that you started it with an insult yourself. Grow up. And also btw those gender equality studies etc that you’ve spouted are RIFE with outright lies, and misinformation. Feminist university gender discussions target girls and brainwash them into a false sense of victimhood and you’ve clearly been had. Statistics like “one in four women are sexually assaulted” or the wage gap are outright lies. Women have all the rights that men do and then some, to the point that the ‘equality’ has gone too far the other way. Also try working a goddamn coal mining job, or skyscraper, or steel working job or fight on the front lines (oh yes i know there are women in the military now–but the ratio of men who have died fighting for women –yes like you–and for their country throughout history is around 10,000 to 1. THATS oppression silly. On that note, a lot of women bemoan about having the right to vote as if it was a symptom of oppression but the fact was that voting was a right only allowed for men because men were conscripts who were born to fight and to die and it was a necessary military choice. Think about it, why would anyone with no experience in the affairs of defending and dying for a country be asked to make uninformed choices on who to elect to run it in a military state. It makes no sense. But no, as usual women turned the lack of voting into another example of your victimization rather than realize that men had earned that honor by being conscripted. But somehow we must make everything about you. So before you go off spouting about managerial positions at the local office where you can walk around displaying your newfound sense of ’empowerment’– so you can feel good about yourself when you go home at night after such a hard days work and stare at the powerful woman in the mirror who’s going to challenge the retarded delusion of “THE PATRIARCHY” (insert ominous music here) remember its actually men who have died who have made it quite nice for you here in the western world no matter how you try to blow things up while you’re buying a new gucci handbag worth 900$. Especially when that 900$ could have been put to more philanthropic use. Like gender studies in the east. Loser.
I grew up with parents that expected me to behave as you have written. Unfortunately as I have grown up I’ve stopped this practice much of the time, mainly for the simple fact that women are no longer appreciative of this type of act. There have been a number of times I have been cussed out by women of different ages for simply opening the door for them to a restaurant or store. I’ve heard everything from sexist remarks to my hands aren’t broken I can do it myself. If women were still brought up to be prim and proper then perhaps men wouldn’t be so against the idea of performing these tasks.
It is sad though that I have stopped most of this with my wife too. Perhaps because she see’s it as a competition. I know she wants to have fun by racing me to the door, but it goes against the grain and actually I find it quite annoying. Just let me open the door and if there is a vestibule then wait for me to open the second door too.
Oh and Joe, I agree with you. The vulgar dress code of ladies today is distasteful and disrespectful. I can no longer tell if a lady is 30 or 12 years old.
Prim and proper? Really. So people have to act a certain way for you to treat them politely? People are rude, that’s just how they are. You want to make your wife wait around for you? You sound like a fun sucker. I lift, hunt, and cuss to make sure I never draw in men like you. I’d much rather be around men who can respect me for my personality. And they do exist. 🙂
@ Audrey
“So people have to act a certain way for you to treat them politely?”
The answer to this question is generally Yes. People do have to act in a civilized manner or polite way for people to treat them with respect. If someone disrespects you, are you going to treat them politely? Are you ALWAYS polite to someone who is not polite towards you? If you answered yes to the question, you are a saint. My guess is that you answered no…like the rest of society.
Like Eric, I too have been yelled at for holding a door open for a woman. Does it stop me from holding doors open for women? No. But it did open my eyes to the fact that even a simple act of kindness towards another human being can be seen (by that specific woman) as an attempt by a man to marginalize a woman and keep that woman in her gender specific role….when in reality I was simply holding the door for another fellow human. I was raised by a single mother and have 2 sisters. I respect women. I don’t hold doors open for women to get anything in return. All I do ask in return…is that those people for whom I held doors open, please do the same when you are in that situation. Hold the door for the next person. Man or woman. Easy peezy.
Audrey, isn’t it funny how scarred and upset men are by the woman or three who quickly commented that they didn’t need their doors held?
I wish we could put men in a woman’s body for a week and let them experience the entitlement and expectations of strange men (or mere acquaintances). Expectations that you’ll put up with the rudeness, the interruptions, the forced conversations, the anger when you’re not receptive, expectations around how you look and how you talk and what you wear and where you wear it and who sees you wearing it. Acting as if your body is somehow their business, and as if they’re entitled to an opinion about your every action. All from strangers who don’t know your name and wouldn’t shed a tear if you died tomorrow – but you’re supposed to care about how they feel and what they think. it’s absolutely insane. And if a simple “no thank you” when you hold a door can sear itself into these men’s minds, can you imagine what a week as a woman would do to their heads?
I think what gets conflated in these articles and ideas is that the men are simply being kind to someone they love, which is of course a good thing and is well intentioned. Would I do any and all of these things for my wife, of course, if that was what she really wanted, however I don’t think I’d have fallen so deeply in love with my wife if it wasn’t for the fact that my wife abhors these things. Instead she focuses on little things that aren’t a part of chivalry, but instead are a part of showing your love for your spouse. She often brings up the time I switched plates with her at a wedding because she didn’t like the food and I told her I loved hers. After finishing her plate (which was mine) I stopped eating the horrible food I had gotten and fessed up to simply wanting her to enjoy her meal. She has told me often, even to this day that she would love to eat at some restaurant instead of another because she knows I prefer the first. We show our love and respect by being kind, by helping eachother when the other one needs it, and by treating each other as equals in a relationship where we know either of us would do anything for the other one (and more). I don’t go out of my way to open doors for her because it would be a superfluous act which draws more attention to me than to helping her. We love each other and the way we show it more than anything is by calling ourselves a team. When we are working on putting the kids to bed, she expects as much out of me as I do out of her. When we are working on a house project, I expect the same out of her as I do out of myself. She is capable, independent and strong and I would never want to diminish this in her by treating her like my children who need me to walk them to the door, who need me to open doors for them, who need to know when they’ve done well, and who need me to help them into their chair. These are things I do for the children I love in my life, but my wife is not a child, she doesn’t need me to do these things, nor does she want to be treated like a child. I am proud to stand next to her when she gives up her seat for an elderly man on the subway who may actually need the chair, I am proud to stand next to her when she helps our children by pulling their seats out for them. But I don’t need her to do some meaningless acts to let me know she loves me, she does this is such bigger actions and with more complex words than can be inferred from treating me like we treat our children and I know she feels the same way about my actions and words.
I love that you’ve highlighted this. There’s love – which are the individualized things that my husband does for me because they’re a big deal to me (and probably no one else). And that’s what you describe for your wife. And then there’s just good manners – which is being considerate and aware of the people around you. Some people like to call that chivalry, but it really doesn’t need to be gender specific. I hold doors for men and women and have doors held for me by men and women. I’ve given my seat up for women who were pregnant or had several small kids with them. I’ve been given a seat by a guy a time or two (and by women more often because they know how much heels can hurt!) because I was in heels. It’s certainly not expected or owed, but it’s appreciated. It’s very different from love, even though both involve thoughtful acts.
So let me get this straight:
1. The man always drives
2. The woman’s value is in her beauty
3. Man strong, woman weak, man give up seat to woman
Kindness is something we need to work on as a society. “Chivalry” is the benign half of sexism, but the assumptions that come with it carry over to the less benign half.
Holding open doors is kindness. Holding open doors for women only (with the inherent background of women need help with doors) is chivalry. Complimenting your significant other is kindness, focusing on a woman’s beauty is chivalry. Etc.
1) Who cares who drives.
2) Beauty is part of her value, sure.
3) Man is stronger. Women are weaker. I assume we’re talking physically- right? Man should give up his seat for woman- unless she’s a transvestite- Then it gets confusing.
Feminism is dumb. Id love to hear what women like Jean would say if she were on the Titanic. “No, really- I think it should be child, then men and women draw straws”.
When does Mad Men Season 7 start? I’m ready to watch the good ole’ days again.
Feminism is dumb? Afghanistan is very devoid of feminism right now. Let’s see how that’s working for them:
http://www.trustineducation.org/resources/life-as-an-afghan-woman/
We vote because of feminism. We can open a back account without a male cosigner because of feminism (that became legal in the 1970s, btw). We can own a house on our own because of feminism. We can help our families put a roof over our heads and lighten the load of single-income households because of feminism. Feminism is simply asking that women be as valued as men by the law, by medicine, by the workforce, by their family members. Not more valued. As valued. How is that bad?
I don’t think the point was that the women’s beauty is her worth. In a society that constantly gives you examples of how you should look, despite the impossibility of women looking that perfect without editing, it is nice to hear that someone you love doesn’t expect that from you because he thinks you are already beautiful. Also, that was just one example of a compliment. You are not limited to talking about how she looks.
Thank you. Being a women I have to say that is EXACTLY what I miss men doing … that and more. He pays, he leads and shows protection, honor, and respect. Love it!
But do you miss cooking for your men? what about ironing his clothes?
Reblogged this on The Spontaneous Idealist and commented:
I support this:
I agree that all of these things are great to do and should be done by both sexes as a show of respect and consideration for others. The only thing that I would add is that those daily compliments do not need to focus purely on beauty, though beauty compliments are always appreciated. I think it is important to be noticed and appreciated for other qualities as well, such as intelligence, talents (cooking, art, hobbies), thoughtfulness, kindness, strength, patience, etc.
My father and mother were both from the WWII era and they raised 3 girls. We watched my father treat our mother like a lady and knew that was how we should expect to be treated. My father also instilled in his 3 daughters that there is a difference between a lady and a woman. Better not hear any man refer to one of us as a woman 🙂
I’ve raised 3 boys into men basically by myself. I have tried hard to instill these values in each of them, starting with their first date to a dance or a movie at the age of 13, 14 or 15. While driving to pick up the girl, I reminded them of each thing I had taught them, because I knew how important it was to me to feel respected and special. As I read the list, I realized that I missed 2 of them. I’ll be forwarding this to the 2 younger ones that are still 26 and 18 lol
As I find myself recently single, after many years, I have already realized that a true gentleman is a very rare thing now. It makes me very sad.
One more way to be a gentleman: if a woman has held a door open for you (she was there before you, its her job, etc) walk through it. Maybe say thank you. Please don’t ignore the offered open door and go out of your way to open the other door yourself and walk through it. Honor the gesture as you would like your gestures honored.
When my husband started opening my door while we were dating, I was weirded out. I kinda just stood there and wondered why he was on my side of the car. I appreciated the gesture, but I felt uncomfortable. I am perfectly capable of opening my door myself, and it’s taking up time when he could be getting into the truck while I get in.
Make no mistake, he’s very courteous and does a lot of little things for me – drops me off at the door when it’s raining, gets up and opens the door when my arms are full, offers his chair to the elderly – but I never stand there and demand he treat me chivalrously.
I guess articles like this are offputting to people like me is that I expect considerate treatment for EVERYBODY, not just women. Anybody who needs a hand at the time, and not just me because I happen to have a XX chromosomes.
To James, who wrote this article, thank you for reminding men that being chivalrous is not being sexist, but showing your love and respect for women.
To all men out there who do these tings mentioned on a regular basis, thank you from the bottom of my heart. Please continue to try to pass this along by leading through example, to the young men of this world. I love it when my husband does any of the things mentioned in this article. Yes, it shows he cherishes me. I feel special to him, and it makes me glad every time, that I’m married to him.
To the few women who are so afraid of being seen as weak, or not “equal” enough for letting a man do something for them, YIKES! I’m shocked that you would actually prefer someone to be rude to you, than for a man to do an act of kindness for you.
Now, to all you guys who don’t do this…get a little class, and start. ALL your relationships might improve. Also, for you guys who read this, and think “pfft, I’m not doing that.”, well, when you see a man holding a door for a woman, I would highly recommend you not actually cut in front of her, like some idiot did to my mother in law. My father in law grabbed the guy by his ponytail, told him the door was being held for his wife, and the other women in his family, not for some disrespectful thug, and that he would wait until after the women passed. While the guy was getting his small lecture, my mother in law, walked through the door, followed by myself, my sister in law, and her 2 girls. We then, turned around, and applauded my father in law. Since my husband and his 2 brothers were alwo with us, the guy just rubbed his head, and did nothing.
Love this article. Chivalry is just another word for respect. If men treated women this way more often, I think the divorce rate would plumate. I grew up in the country and was taught to respect others. I have been married a few times and they all failed due to lack of respect for my partner and me being the only one trying to make things work. Now that I am older and pick my friends more wisely, I do have a few gentlemen friends that have not forgotten how to treat a lady. And these are not men that I date, they are just friends. Young people nowadays don’t have respect for each other. Women think they have to dress up like they are advertising their bodies to try to get a man. Ladies, that is not going to get you a decent man. I wish I had held out for a man that treated me with chivalry instead of someone they thought they could control. I have gotten to the point in my life that I am happier alone than with a man because of this. I have not dated for several years because I haven’t seen anything out there I would want to date. And the couple of men friends that I have now that area gentlemen have been friends for years and I don’t want that to end, so there’s no dating between us. I feel like if the Lord wants me to be with a man, he will send the right one to me one day and if not, I will still be happy alone but with my friends. I have everything I’ve always wanted after being singe for 14yrs now, and I got it all on my own. I did not get anything out of my divorces, if anything I got stuck with a lot of the bills. For all those women out there that say chivalry is sexist don’t know what they are talking about. I wish I knew back then what I know now and I would never had to go through those bad times because I would have waited for the right man that would treat me like a lady. And ladies, yes we are weaker physically, but men can treat us as equals when it comes to other aspects of our lives. I have 12 acres and 2 horses that I take care of by myself but there are some things that I can’t do by myself and have to have help from a man. There’s nothing wrong with that. I remember the first time a man opened the car/truck door for me and it was the hardest thing for me to get used to because it had not happened but maybe one other time in my entire life and I am 55yrs young. But now I expect it from a man or there won’t be another date. We Women have got to learn to expect respect from men if you want to find a good one that will last your lifetime. Unfortunately I learned that too late. But I have raised my values up now and will accept no less. Letting a man open a door for you or offering you a seat is not putting you down or saying you are weaker than him, it is all about respect. I see people today that treat each other worse than you would treat a wild animal. This country has got to wake up and change the way we treat each other or we area going to run the country into the ground . I am all about equal rights for women when it comes to jobs, etc. but I will have no respect for a man that doesn’t show respect to me. I tried to teach my sons these values but unfortunately my older son has always lived with his grandparents since he was 17 and they never held him responsibe for anything and gave him everything he wanted. He never had to work for anything and he treated them like they were trash and destroyed everything that was given to him and also my parents house. He has tried to treat me this way and I gave him multiple chances to change his ways. He is now 32yrs old and living in 14ft camper that is about 50yrs old on my stepfathers property because he is not longer welcome at my house because of the way he has treated me. You reap what you sow and he has reaped his way out of any inheritance now. My younger son and his daughter will get everthing because he has always shown me respect and has made it on his own. He made some bad decisions when he was younger but he learned from them and joined the army and now has a beautiful wife and daughter and even though he has had some tough time financially, he has never asked me for a penny. He is 24yrs old and just bought his first house and finally got a good job where he can advance his career. I am so proud of him and hope he passes on his respectful ways to his daughter. Hopefully more parents will teach their children to respect others and make this world a better place to live in. Kudos to the men of chivalry and I hope there will be more of them in the future.
.
@ Sandra
I cannot agree less with your comment that If men treated women this way more often, I think the divorce rate would plumate [sic]. You are suggesting that divorce only occurs because men do not behave properly. I have been working in Family Law for 5-6 years now and that is simply not the case.
What is even more confusing is that you state that your own marriages have failed because you lacked respect for your partners. I thought you grew up in the country and was taught to respect others.
So divorce wouldn’t happen in America if more men were chivalrous…but your marriages all ended because you lacked respect for your partners? Did you lack respect for your partners … because they weren’t chivalrous? I don’t see the connection. You chose these men to marry. Were they all chivalrous at one time but then stopped? Or were they never chivalrous and you expected them to change once you got married?
I also have a problem with your choosing to complain that there are no men out there that are chivalrous. You have not dated for several years because you haven’t seen anything out there you would want to date…except that you do have men in your life that you would want to date…but don’t date them because they aren’t attractive enough for you. Those couple of men friends that you do have, who are complete gentlemen are your friend…but that friendship won’t end simply because you date. You just don’t want to date them because you don’t think they are good enough or attractive enough for you. You are using that as an excuse because you don’t find them attractive. You didn’t say that they don’t want to date you…you only said that you don’t want to date them, because you don’t want that friendship to end.
Please do not say that there are no chivalrous men out there for you to date. Call it as you see it. You just don’t find your “chivalrous” guy friends attractive enough to date. You can’t date assholes all your life and complain that you only date assholes. Give the nice guy a chance and he will surprise you. Either way, don’t make excuses. Own your own shit.
[…] See on jamesmsama.wordpress.com […]
This article should only be geared toward non American women. The women in the USA have lost almost all their feminine value and instead would rather become like men. (Trying to think like a man etc) Men aren’t chivalrous anymore because the women don’t deserve it. We are not gentlemen to women who have adopted masculine values. Another thing is being polite doesn’t get them laid. Cold hard truth. In my personal experience, and the experience of friends and countless other men, the less we give a damn…the more the gorgeous women are attracted to us. Thus the more fun we have without all the stress, nagging, and nonsense that comes with a relationship. Women could change the dynamics of dating overnight by responding positively to true gentlemen behavior. To bad being noble dries up the lady parts. Oh well. Back to being a jerk.
Sadly, much of what you say is true.
I think it is a sweet thing to do but I grew up with mutual respect for every living thing. I would do these things for anyone, it is just polite. But I don’t expect any special treatment because I have a vagina. If you are a man and do these things the you deserve a lot more respect than any woman can give you.
I love all eight. Because it’s rare it makes me get closer to falling in love with the guy. Usually when I go out with a man, I wait for these things.
1.) If he doesn’t pull out my chair, I remain standing (“My Fair Lady”/Audrey Hepburn-style). If he doesn’t open my door, I stand there.
2.) I also drop hints, “I love it when a man walks me to my door.” “Men who compliment me make me feel so special. They make me feel they’re paying attention to me. I love that.”
3.) If he doesn’t pick up on these cues, he gets no second date. When he calls for another date my response is, “I’m not available.”
Boom. Thank you, Gladys Diaz. You taught me well!
If you said those things and acted like that I wouldn’t want to finish the first.
My Daddy taught me to wear shoes with laces on a first date. When it was time to get out of the car, I could bend down and adjust my shoelaces… giving my date a chance to realize I was not out of the car, come open the door and ask if I’m ok… which then gave me the opportunity to get out and thank him for opening the door for me…
Audrey Hepburn was a lady with class. The right lady can make you not want your first date to finish!
All people are equal, but some people are more equal than others.
So you’re an entitlement princess. Got it.
If we were on first date and you acted like that, you would never get the invitation for a second date.
And with those practices, you’ll attract a man like a few of the posters here, who expects you to do certain things for him in return. If that’s what you’re looking for, more power to you. My priority was a man who was secure enough in his masculinity to not hang it all on my behaviors and my simpering submission. So your approach wouldn’t have worked as well for me.
I’ve seen several responses asking why can’t this behavior apply towards everyone, not just women? Why would you think it does not? Do you not think a true gentleman would behave in a gentlemanly way with all people? Do you really think his gentlemanly behavior stops unless a woman is present? And vice versa. There was such a thing as a “gentlewoman” at one time. Sure, it’s an outdated term, but it still has meaning today. A gentlewoman (among other definitions) is a woman with good manners or high standards of behavior. Do you believe the good behavior is only present when women act in a kind way towards other women? Would you think that a gentlewoman would start being rude and disrespectful to others because they aren’t women? Why have some of you assumed chivalry is ONLY directed from men to women, and wouldn’t include all people?
Yes, this particular article pertains to chivalrous behavior on the part of men. But people have gone beyond the topic and started castigating this man for showing respect for women in particular. It’s sad, really. Look beyond the obvious and maybe you will understand why your comments really have no basis.
If you think that men are nice to you only because you are a woman, then maybe there is something wrong with YOU and not the man.
I assume, since gentlemen are excepted from being polite to “non-ladies”, the ladies are exempted from being ladylike around non-gentlemen?
I see no reason I should give my seat to a woman on a bus just because she’s female. I’ll give it to an elderly or handicapped person; they need it more than I do. But a woman who is a stranger to me and appears to be as healthy as I am? No. If there’s only one seat on a bus that I am boarding with a friend or family member, I’ll let them have it — but not because of gender, but rather because I love them.
As for doors, I hold them open for everyone. It’s polite.
Not texting to request a date–that’s just civilized behavior. A woman or gay man should not text their boyfriend for a date either. Again, gender not a factor.
I have tried pulling out chairs for women. In my experience, it confuses them. Most think I’m claiming that chair as my own. Those who catch on just shake their heads and roll their eyes. I stopped doing it long ago.
Compliments: everyone should compliment their romantic interest, regardless of gender. You see where I’m going with this. What’s called for is kindness and consideration, regardless of gender — a two-way street of kindness. Those who expect this kind of behavior to flow only in one direction are sexist.
I agree. Thanks for such a balanced analysis.
Precisely.
I grew up in Europe and did all those things listed above. It was drilled into me by my dad. But now much less … Women say they appreciate it, but my experience is they don’t. They find it convenient. For example the calling rather than texting. My rule is that anyone that calls I call back and it doesn’t matter if they are the janitor or my boss. When I call dates or potential dates they almost never call back. Even better I had some tell me they liked receiving calls and then the only thing I get back when i call is some short text. “Saw you called, am busy this week. Call me next week.” Chivalry would in this instance means that the other party, my potential date, then decides to return my call. I too have a busy life and when I can’t pick up i might also send a text saying that I am busy. But I will also include an apology and offer to call them myself and ask for a time that is convenient to them.
Ladies the reason why we aren’t chivalrous anymore is that you don’t show much appreciation and respect for it.
And don’t get me started on the amount of dates that have been cancelled on me at the last moment often under the guise of a lie. (One actually told me her kids were sick while i saw them playing with my friends kids at the same time.) By now i just assume the chance is about 50% and aleays make a backup plan. Somehow women seem to think i am stupid. It has gotten to the point when someone cancels like that I just assume they are lying and cut it of. Somehow I always can make it. The only time I cancelled was when I broke my leg. And the next day I sent flowers with an apology note.
[…] Day is a good a time as any to discuss that chivalry is still important. Ryan has done #6 since we met and it makes me feel so taken care […]
Just stumbled across your blog after someone linked to it from Facebook. Enjoyed these very much. I hope I never stop doing them.
[…] http://jamesmsama.wordpress.com/2014/02/01/8-acts-of-chivalry-to-bring-back/ […]
Chivalry is formulaic affection, the pop music of showing you care.
It’s not personal if it’s based on rules. Be a little creative.
Not to mention all the men who forget that we can see their reflection in the door ahead as they hold the door and stare at our backsides while we walk through. So chivalrous of you. Thanks, guys.
I make it a point to always do these things for the girl that I am on a date with. I also think it is important to always give your seat up for all women and open doors for people that are behind you walking into a building. It is important to make a girl feel special that deserves it. However, it is unfortunate that there are so many unclassy girls these days and not that many girls that you would want to invest any sort of time in.
Thank you for writing this. I know of several men in my life (friends and co-workers) who do this sort of thing often… sorry almost all of the time; I work at a fast food restraint and one of my male co-workers insists on holding the walk in fridge and freezer door open for me, I will often tell him thank you but you really don’t have to. I love it when MEN and WOMEN do these things. I can be as simple as holding the door open for the person behind you when you get off the buss it shows courtesy and politeness from ANYONE who does it. It shows a respect for others especially those you care about and if one does it for a stranger it shows a respect for your fellow human being.
[…] 8 Acts Of Chivalry To Bring Back. […]
Yes, any lady-like, feminine woman deserves this type of treatment.
What if the ladies are reserving their lady-like behavior for the masculine gentlemen who deserve it? If everyone followed your thought process, we’d all be waiting for someone to lead us into adult-like, well-reared behaviors.
1) I give up my seat for elderly, disabled or anyone carrying a baby (not for a young girl who can perfectly stand)
2) I open doors for anyone behind me
3) I don’t pull out chairs for any girl unless she lost her hands or drop a girl first again unless she is disabled.
4) I will walk anyone to the door who come to visit me, doesn’t matter if its a girl or a guy, old or young.
5) I always walk on the street side no matter who I walk with. I am protective of my loved ones again no matter who it is.
Respect for everyone goes a long way. But treating girls in a special way in the name of chivalry is BS. When we all strive for gender equality, chivalry is just a slap in the face of all feminist movement. Girls who expect these things from men stay single and miserable for very long time. Luckily my wife doesn’t expect any of these BS
Agree. Sadly, I’ve found that men who start out making the biggest deal out of their chivalry become the crudest, most misogynist people down the road. Men who don’t make a big deal out of chivalry or treating women differently are often fairly considerate people. I’m not sure why that is, but it’s happened too often to be a coincidence.
I don’t understand why this has to go from male to female. I am a male and if I see a elderly of ANY sex, I will get up. I will hold the door for ANYONE, should they be behind me. If it is practical, I will open a car door for ANY passenger. Chivalry and defining one as a Gentleman is not limited to sex, it’s about being a polite professional, civilized in manner and mannerisms to all you encounter.
My husband does all these things, taught our daughter to expect them, and taught our son to do them. Chivalry is not dead, but it is endangered. It should definitely be brought back – women need to realize they’re worth these things. Doing these things does not make a lady weak; it makes her valued.
@ Mimi
Shouldn’t you teach your daughters to be polite and courteous to all people…men and women? Instead, you choose to teach your daughters to expect chivalrous acts, instead of teaching both your son and daughters to do these things.
And why are only women worth these acts of chivalry? it would be great if this was not a man vs. woman issue. It is a respect towards fellow human beings issue.
I would rather raise a daughter that helps others out, out of respect and kindness compared to a daughter that stands on her side of the car waiting for the man to open it for her and never does the same act of kindness in return.
Chivalry is dead. Because women killed it. -Dave Chappelle
The problem with this list is its old fashioned, its from a time woman appreciated this behavior, now they just expect it from you and have no appreciation…I do tons of things on this list, just cuz I feel like being nice, but it doesnt score you any “brownie points” anymore.
This is the end result of feminism. Gender roles are confused and men see no point in treating woman like they are special anymore, because they ALL think they are special…
Last but not least, why bow they cow when the milk is free. Woman may be more sexaully free these days, but it comes at a price, and that is a lacking of respect from the opposite gender. Many men see no need for Chivalrous behavior because “un-chivalrous behavior” is still rewarded
sorry, “buy the cow”
You do realize a lot of women now days are also rejecting men for being “sl*tpuppies”, right? Too many risks and the chance that someone will show up at his door right after your wedding with a 7-year-old that is his child. Feminism means women don’t have to marry a guy right after college, so can afford to be more selective in finding a guy who is worth all that she brings to the table. I can see why that might be troubling for some men, but if you have a daughter, it should be a very encouraging development.
Sorry, “buy the pig when all you wanted was a little sausage.”
Respect, kindness and courtesy are sorely missing in our modern human interactions and we need to bring them back. However, it should be an expectation for all people, not just men in their behavior towards women, and not just a few token throwback gestures that remind many women of a time when men opened doors, gave up seats and pulled out chairs but did not truly respect women’s ideas and viewpoints or value their contributions to the world. True chivalry is not based upon a rigid code of behavior that calls for certain expected actions based on pre-determined gender roles, it’s a heartfelt expression of regard for others that aims to empower and encourage all people.
Very well said!
[…] Michael Sama wrote on his blog a list of what it means to be a gentleman, and I couldn’t agree […]
It’s sad that people are completely convinced that all men in the past did these things for the wrong reasons. I grew up being taught these acts of chivalry and I know very few men who did them for chauvinistic purposes. Even the older men I know do them because they love and respect women and enjoy treating them well. Of course there are men who use these things for the wrong reasons, but that is not because of the era they lived in, it is because of their lack of character. The use of chivalrous acts is relative to the man, not the era. It just saddens me that people look on past generations of men with such disdain when many of these men have been the greatest inspirations to me about how to treat a woman with the utmost respect and love.
What? This is a real article? Is this 1950? Women have arms, legs, a brain. Why should I hold a door for a perfectly capable woman? Why should I give up a seat or walk on the street side of the street? Cultures change. Concepts of what is right or wrong change. I’m going to offend the average intelligent woman by standing and offering a seat. I’m going to offend the average woman by attempting to baby her and coddle her into this sense that as a man it is my job to protect her in some way. I think a bit of politeness, respect, appreciation can go a long way, but it doesn’t have to be sex specific.
Wait, so I’m supposed to walk her to her door in the name of safety after a date. But during the date, it’s okay to drop her off first and leave her alone while I go park the car. Brilliant. But what else would one expect from an article that’s written from the perspective where the woman holds all the cards? Where the man’s job is to simply impress. What is the woman’s equivalent to chivalry?
Opening doors, giving up seats, walking to the door. I do that for anyone. On a date, not on a date, Girl or guy. That’s just manners.
Where on earth did you come up with these ridiculous statistics? How would data on something like average number of men who pull out their dates chairs even be gathered?
” I think it’s important to question everything, and then question the answers you get. If someone tells you something is true, ask them why.” (From JMS’s bio)
lol
Ask, and ye shall receive: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2516858/Is-chivalry-officially-dead-Men-unlikely-offer-women-seats-help-buggies-fear-offending–WANT-to.html
James the website article you linked also does not document their source for said “research” and quotes a psychologist and “relationship expert” possibly out of context. Sloppy.
I don’t read blogs but I saw this plastered around a friend’s Facebook and thought it would be good for a laugh. It was.
It also seems like from your user’s comments you’d do better to change some of the language from “men should” to “people should”.
@James Michael Sama
I liked the first user comment to the article which you use as a source for your statistics.
Jane177:
“If you believe in gender equality you can’t advocate for chivalry. Everyone is equal. Any woman who believes in gender equality but wants chivalry shown to them is a clear case of double standards. And men are not non chivalrous out of fear of “offending” they are non chivalrous because more and more of them are beginning to believe in gender equality.”
Can’t argue with that.
Seriously, the Daily Mail is your source?
Some of these should just be considered common courtesy, regardless of sex. Yesterday, for example, I was sitting in a chair (I’m 56 years old) and a mom with a couple kids came in–I was sitting in a hospital ER waiting are near the TV–and because I know it’s tough to be there, especially with kids, I gave up my seat to her since she needed to park herself down where her kids would want/need to be. I also think it’s okay to open a door for anyone. Just be kind!
Hold the door. Drop her first. Pull the chair. Pay for the dinner. Give up your seat. Compliment the heck out of her. Get into her pants. And repeat the same with another girl.
This may sound cruel. How many time I have seen guys like this…Sadly most girls fall for this. They all expect a “Mr.PERFECT” from lala land. A Mr.Ok who loves them and stays loyal without any of these superficial gestures is always branded as too nice and ignored.
Don’t forget offering her your jacket when it’s cold.
You mean other men don’t do all these things?
I think what men deserve in return for being courteous need not be extravagant and “ridiculously burdensome”, the well mannered men I know are more than pleased with a smile and sweet (not condescending) “thank you”. The same way we expect men to open doors and shield us from the rain before themselves, women should be expected to be gracious and thankful for men going out of their way to do these simple things.
Except there are a host of men posting here that they DO expect extravagant and burdensome things in exchange for “chivalry.” And act as if their two only settings are “chivalry toward women” and “treating women like trash.” In reality, if we remove chivalry, we still have basic courtesy and good manners, which are gender neutral and are generally sufficient for all of us to bump along together in a relatively pleasant, non-sexist society.
I may be a dying breed of human. Not a man, I’m a woman. I see an elderly person (male or female) I will offer my seat, hold open a door, offer to carry their bags, or help them reach for things in stores. If someone holds open a door for me (male or female), I will smile politely and say thank you. I was raised that if someone does something polite, you respond in kind. You say please, thank you, yes ma’am, no ma’am, yes sir, no sir, and you’re welcome. Somehow these simple acts of courtesy have been lost to all, not just the next generation, but to people from every generation. Perhaps bringing back that would make the world a better place in general and not just teaching men how to be gentlemen again, but also teaching women how to be ladies.
I whole heartedly believe in chivalry, however I do not believe it should be expected.
I happily take out my wallet and pay, etc.. but if the other person shows no appreciation or that its expected as if not to mutter a simple “Thank you” or at least fake a reach for her wallet (which i would refuse) it shows an unearned sense of entitlement. Which lets be honest is not an attractive characteristic, its also a sign of more headache to come.
Someone that is not willing to assume responsibilities for a meal or movie ticket is not willing to accept responsibilities for their half of the rent, or their family car payment. For you to allow that you basically turn yourself into a piggy bank for that person.
I have seen quite a few comments about “why do men have to do all this stuff? What do women ever do for us?”
First of all, you don’t HAVE to. If I get on a subway and there are no seats, too bad for me. That’s a risk I take when ai decide to take public transportation. If a gentleman offers his seat to me, I will kindly accept and thank him but offer that same seat to the next woman or elderly person who gets on. It’s called being decent.
Second of all, what do women do for men? I know times have changed but I cook dinner for my fiance every single night, I pack his lunch for work, I make sure there are groceries in the house and that he has basic toiletries and such, I clean up after him, I will birth his child when that time comes, and I will raise that child. Need I go on? Sure, in the dating world, men do all the heavy lifting, but in marriage/long-term relationships, I can only assume that women do all the things I listed. My mother did, I do, and many of my friends do as well. Oh, and to all the feminists out there who think I’m doing it wrong, I also have a successful career and I’m very happy doing all the things I do to keep my household running smoothly and my fiance is perfectly happy opening literally every single door for me.
As a disabled man,who has to use a walker to get around, I sometimes wonder why a young woman/man can’t imagine giving up his/her seat in a waiting room or on a bus or anywhere there is a group waiting, so that a handicapped person can have a seat. They just sit and play with their phone and let you stand.
I agree. Whether you are male or female you should give up your seat to someone handicapped or elder. All kids should know respect. When you reach it to one they expect it from others also and it is a snowball effect.
Agreed. A lot of what the writer said should apply to both sexes. I’ve often held doors for men whose hands are full, offered my seat on the bus to people of both genders if their need was greater than mine (and I have trouble with my back and legs) and done other small courtesies. It’s about thinking of someone other than yourself, and that’s sorely missing in today’s society.
It’s more common in Europe than the US: either becasue parent teach thier children these habits or parent do these courteous actions themselve and the children see it. Another factor could be that we in the US are used to a car culture and rarely take public transport, so we are not familiar with that code of conduct.
Wow…that is sad. I’m sorry you face th.at
yolo
One thing I would mention is that many of us have invisible illnesses or disabilities that prevent us from being able to offer our seat. Certainly I think that is NOT the case most of the time but I know I still have a hard time not offering my seat even though it’s no longer good for me to do so, even though I may look fine.
Yes, as I look around I often see how everyone is addicted to their smartphones. It makes me sick.
As a young person, If I am on a bus and there are no seats left, I ALWAYS let an elderly/disabled/pregnant woman have my seat.
Not to mention there are signs that say stand up for the disabled at least in my city there are. How rude. Most people could use a brush up on proper manners.
This is a difficult one. From an objective perspective, I would ask why a “young man” should give up his seat to a lady? Why are females better than young men? All human beings are equal. Men are human beings that God created like women. Why are men always beaten up and expected to be a door mat? Yes, back in 1930’s and 60’s, and even early 90’s, yes, men were expected to be the leaders in just about all areas aside from kitchen duties and child rearing. Men were expected to support the family financially. But that’s because men were the ones who got the jobs that enabled them to support a family of four without issues. Now times have changed. There’s equality in the job market and even favors females. The mean earning power for women is probably even better on average nowadays. So why is that men are expected to pay on dates? Of course, as a guy, I want to and plan to be chivalrous. But I really don’t see why men are less than women. I just don’t see why we are not all equal–young, old, ugly, pretty.
Men aren’t less than women, and honestly, these acts have base assumptions to them that hurt women more than anything else. I’m not so weak that I can’t stand on public transit. I can open the door for myself. I’m financially independent, and I can pay for my own meal. That last one is based on the assumption that women were (or were expected to be) stay-at-home wives or mothers and thus couldn’t financially support themselves and were entirely dependent on a man’s income. Articles like this drive me insane because women are not the weaker sex, and if a guy wants to do this for me, fine, I won’t reject his kindness. However, it shouldn’t be assumed that guys should do this for a lady to be considered a gentleman because we’re not dainty, pretty little things that sit on a shelf and can’t function on our own. Want to be a gentleman? There’s one rule and one rule alone: be respectful. Bam.
To answer your question, women are not better than men. The suggestion that men give up their seats for women does not indicate that women are superior to men. It is merely a gesture of respect. As a woman, I personally don’t care about that particular demonstration of chivalry, but I recognize that it is a nice thing to do.
Concerning your point about equality: Men and women may have equal value, but they do not have equal opportunities. Your assertions that the job market favors women and that women have higher earning potential are both false. It is true that women lost fewer jobs in the recession and that their overall unemployment rate is lower, but this is because most of the jobs lost were in male-dominated fields such as construction and manufacturing. But women are underrepresented in a number of fields, particularly in STEM professions and managerial positions. They are also severely underrepresented in the political arena. Given equal qualifications, men are more likely to be seen as competent and are more likely to be hired. And to this day women make approximately 77 cents for every dollar that men make in equivalent professions. The Equal Wage amendment to the constitution was never passed, so employers are not legally required to pay women the same rates as men for comparable work, regardless of the fact that, as you said, all human beings are equal.
Lastly, even if men and women were perfectly equal in all possible respects, chivalry would not be superfluous. Chivalry is not a diabolical means to subjugate men. It is a means for one to show one’s respect for another.
Will, someone has lied to you. Women have an inborn need (no matter how much they fight and deny it) to be treated as…a women. When women try to tote the “equality” line, that is the time to ditch them. when they want to have the privileges of masculinity without its downfalls, they are simply in denial of nature. these are not the women of substance, Avoid them at all costs! if a woman is a lady in the purest sense of the word; go for it. Literally worship her radiant essence, as it is abandoned to the wind. If she is just any ol’ skank, do not go out of your way to comfort her entitlement issues. (EVER) It is a mans job to treat a woman like a queen; conversely, it is the woman’s duty and responsibility to act as such. chivalry is not meant for peasants, will. Moreso – women will always have a need to be worshiped and cared for by a man, this is not negotiable. The political woman is in denial and IS NOT your equal. i suppose that your question can be summed up in saying that women are indeed the weaker vessel. men are not lesser because of their sex; chivalry is an admonition of her weakness – an offensive shield, so to speak. In embracing your masculinity you will attract the feminine to your person. In her acceptance of your dominion, there will be harmony. That, is the purpose of chivalry.
I think that you are asking the wrong question, my friend. It is not a matter of who is equal or not it is a polite thing to do and that is all that matters. Now as a guy I my self do all of these things not because women are feeble or meek, but because they are women and deserve to be treated like queens. For with out women there is no society. Women are the life bringers and knowing this, that you can not possibly continue your legacy with out one, you are surely mistaken in thing you are a door mat.
“Women’s Studies: The major for women who want to complain about there not being enough women majoring in STEM.”
What about “hand on rear end”? I think the writer of the article forgot that one.
Do you have something against a happy hand?
One that was forgotten but I was raised with was to follow a woman up stairs and to go in front going down stairs. This is to stop her in case she trips and falls. I know we live in an age of escalators and elevators, but there are times that this is still relevant.
Its also useful when she’s wearing a short skirt.
You’re the reason this article needed to be written.
Chivalry was about how men treated men. Of course now that feminism has turned women into men, perhaps it does still apply.
I am a feminist sir. But I am very much a woman.
Well said!
perhaps your genitals support your claims but there is much more to being a woman than body-parts. An inherently sexist ideology is but a mask of ontological confusion and failure.
But you, sir (Mandy Heath), are no lady.
Feminism also apparently turned some
men into idiots if they think respect and fairness changes biological sex.
In other words. Only men deserve respect no matter what scum you are. Yet women must earn respect. See chivalry has died.
Yes it has died feminism broke the social compact. If you want equality then you also have to accept the responsibilities that go with that equality. Chivalry is indeed dead and yes feminism is a big part of the reason why. That sword cuts both ways wip23 but nice try
Please ignore that ignorant comment below yours. That person is totally uneducated. If women want equality it’s equal treatment not we want to be the same as men. Men better hope that women don’t start leaving around stinky socks and skipping showers. If women had it equal they wouldn’t have a full time job at home and a full time job outside the home for three quarters of the pay of ONE JOB. Men need to start appreciating women more and women need to stop taking care of them when they don’t.
Mr. Glover, just to clarify, chivalry was the training of knights in a code of conduct which included protecting others who could not protect themselves including widows, orphans and elders. So yes, males were included in orphans and in the elderly populations, but the conduct wasn’t a ‘locker room code’ as you seem to be implying. And feminism hasn’t ‘turned women into men’ it merely seeks equal opportunities for women. Much like the Civil Rights Movement did for African Americans back in the 1960’s. I hope these definitions cleared things up for you.
In theory, that’s what feminism espoused to be. Reality paints a much different picture.
Reblogged this on Juliana Writes and commented:
Not that this has anything to do with writing. Although, the list does contain several items my male characters strive to do. (ps – My husband has agreed to wear a top hat and tails one day for me!)
I agree with you 100%. I especially agree with what you said about “cringing” when a young man leaves a woman standing on a bus or train while he remains comfortably seated. And when I open the door for my wife and another couple, in which the man doesn’t open the door, sees, it makes me chuckle inside hoping he’s getting the fifth degree from her about it once inside the car. Great article James!
Perhaps his wife is talking about feeling pity for your wife since you think she unable to do the door herself. Perhaps they saw you get to the door first so you did it for her like a decent person, and she would open the next door for you.
Just because your wife wants you to do an act that make her look like a less capable human does not mean other couples are the same. Show the other couple some respect because your value of believing your wife is ignorant or weak is not true for all.
@Joelle – And you are the exact reason chivalry is dying…
Are you kidding me? I am married and have two sons, and when they are around never do I touch a door – not because I can’t or won’t, but because that is one way they show their respect and care for me. We all, daughter included, hold doors for others coming behind us, or who are carrying packages, disabled, etc. My youngest son, 10, has insisted on holding doors for others since we was 3. It’s amazing the great feedback he always gets (because it has become so rare among young people to show that respect for adults), and he gets a great sense of pride from doing this simple kind act. Our kids have been taught never to sit if there is still an adult that is need of a seat, and my husband does all of the things listed here. I can promise you it is with no other intention than out of his love and respect for me, and no one who knows me would EVER characterize me as anything but a very strong woman. All of the men I know who do the items listed do so out of care and respect. Joelle, get over yourself and attempt to show some respect for others!!! Anyone who thinks these “gentlemanly” acts are anything sinister needs a reeducation in life.
Sorry Joelle, I think I might have missed something…. Could you point me to the place in his comment where he says that his wife wants him to “make her look like a less capable human being?” Or where he says that he believes his wife is “ignorant or weak”? Hah, you know, it almost sounded like you were putting words in his mouth…..
Or we could treat women as, you know, EQUALS. If they are as strong as they claim they are, they don’t need to be coddled.
This response shows the problem clearly. Yes, I like the idea of treating women as equals – no problem with that. However, holding the door for someone is not “coddling” them. Think of it instead, as showing courtesy. If I am the first one to a door, I hold it open for the people (male or female) behind me – simple courtesy. If someone else reaches the door first, male or female, I think they should hold it for me. It’s about being nice to a fellow human being, not about keeping score in the “battle between the sexes”!
Yet another man who wants women to go back to being his worthless property. If you give no respect to others don’t expect any in return.
Exactly and women need to stop cleaning up after men and feeding them. We’re equals so scrub the floor and wash your own clothes. Do the grocery shopping take care of the kids and then work 40 to 60 hours a week. So ignorant.
Yes wip25, that’s *exactly* what he’s saying.
Next time, don’t put words in other people’s mouths.
i find most of these suggestions completely sexist. unless disabled or i have my hands full, i can open my own doors, thank you,
I was raised by my single mother to do all of these things for a lady. If you think these suggestions are sexist, then you weren’t raised to be a lady.
+1
Your mother failed you. She should have raised you to do these for anyone regardless of the gender. Most of these apply to being kind and respectful to others. Just do it for that reason alone…not because you have a Y chromosome.
I know i enjoy when i get to open the door for others with a smile…just because I made it to the door first so i can make there day. The there are hateful men who try to take away that joy because they decide I’m not worthy of opening the door for them. Don’t be a jerk, allow for mutual kindness.
Totally agree C-Dub.
Before considering sadly the death of chivalry we should ponder the death of women worth chivalry.
I think it’s interesting that you think that women who think that we should hold the door open for people regardless of their gender are trash.
Aaaand Rob Michael for the win.
Oh right, Joelle, cuz opening a door for a woman because you want to show that you respect her is…. being a jerk? Wait… what?
Listen, this issue isn’t about sexism, it isn’t about feminism, and it isn’t about chauvinism. It’s about respect. Respect is universal: it applies to any gender, FROM any gender. A woman can just as easily show her respect for a man by opening a door for him. If you and the President of the United States got to a door at the same time, what would you do? I should hope you’d have enough respect for him that you would show it by opening the door for him. If the president were a woman, the same would apply. See, it’s not all about you, women (or for that matter whoever thinks that opening a door for a woman is contemptuous or belittling). At least, it’s not all about you as a person. It’s about you as a woman, as someone whom God gave to man to protect, love, and serve (stress on the “serve”). To say that we men think you aren’t “worthy” to open our doors for us is frankly just ludicrous.
and probably will be for a long time.
Feminazis seem to think any gender-related generosity is sexism. I open the car door for my wife. She in turn reaches over and opens my car door before I get there. Who is the sexist one here? Do you understand that treating women the same as men means that men will no longer attempt to disguise their burps and farts in front of you, will punch you in the arm and call you lots of crude names? If you prefer that sort of behavior for having a door held for you, I’m sure men will line up to help you with that.
You assume that any of us care.
In other words Icky, your wife passed the door test. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kW94hQQMTQw
Some women actually like to be treated like a lady.
This woman definitely appreciates being treated like a lady. It isn’t a matter of whether or not we as women are capable of opening doors for others. I frequently will get the door for someone who is in need or because I am there first. I love that my husband opens doors for me. It shows me that he appreciates and cherishes me-not that I am frail and incapable. I hear women complain constantly about the fact that men aren’t men anymore. It’s probably because they don’t know which way to turn. If they open a door for a woman they have insulted her capabilities. If they don’t open the door they are rude. Must be tough for men knowing the right answer sometimes. I am raising my son to open doors and other niceties that are being lost. He also knows to extend these courtesies to others regardless of sex simply because he is kind.
Amen!
@Allen, it doesn’t matter if a woman enjoys being treated like a lady. What matters is if the woman is worthy of being treated like a lady.
What is sexist about trying to be nice, polite & courteous? I was raised & taught by example that all these things were normal behavior. I do all these for my wife & two daughters, even random stangers male/female all the time & never been accused of being sexist or told that I am being disrespecting. I was taught by a lady, that this is just a small part of how you are supposed to treat a lady. I then in turn have taught my two boys who are 8 & 10 to do the same thing & if the woman that they are being respectful to is rude, then she must not have been raised by a lady.
Rob Michael AND Dalton for the WIN!!! I am a female and get irritated everytime this subject comes up. Women have spent decades trying to immasculate men and then wonder why an increasing number behave the way they do. Decades of participation medals and ‘everyone is a winner’ have resulted in a sharp drop in the number of people who put forth an effort in anything. Expecially things as simple as consideration for others. I don’t think any man has ever held a door because he thought a woman incapable. Does he do it because he thinks she would remain standing outside for lack of understanding or capability with regard to the mechanics of a door? Personally, it makes my day to see a man do ANY of the above-listed things. I think it’s a sign of consideration from the stronger sex to the fairer sex. However, I open/hold doors for folks of both sexes daily. It’s just kind and considerate to make sure a door doesn’t slam in anyone’s face before they can get to it. For couples, I think it is a sign of affection. I want to do laundry/cook/clean for the man in my life because I care for him and he wants to protect/provide for me because he cares for me. Why is that backwards?
+1
Rob Michael AND Dalton for the WIN!!! I am a female and get irritated everytime this subject comes up. Women have spent decades trying to immasculate men and then wonder why an increasing number behave the way they do. Decades of participation medals and ‘everyone is a winner’ have resulted in a sharp drop in the number of people who put forth an effort in anything. Expecially things as simple as consideration for others. I don’t think any man has ever held a door because he thought a woman incapable. Does he do it because he thinks she would remain standing outside for lack of understanding or capability with regard to the mechanics of a door? Personally, it makes my day to see a man do ANY of the above-listed things. I think it’s a sign of consideration from the stronger sex to the fairer sex. However, I open/hold doors for folks of both sexes daily. It’s just kind and considerate to make sure a door doesn’t slam in anyone’s face before they can get to it. For couples, I think it is a sign of affection. I want to do laundry/cook/clean for the man in my life because I care for him and he wants to protect/provide for me because he cares for me. Why is that backwards?
Assuming the weather is not inclement, I disagree with the “drop off first” on a far-park. Certainly, you could give the lady the option, but if it is a long walk (and your lady is able-bodied), it provides a nice opportunity to talk. Also, it is not good sense to leave your lady unattended curbside for an extended period of time.
Thank-you! I agree. It could be less safe as well. This is only good if double teaming for tickets or seats. Walking together is sweet to do together. Perhaps walk hand in hand.
Does this apply when the woman drives? If it is a sign of respect then she should get to drop off the male. Have you just ticked off other cars behind you because you’ve had to idle to the car open her car door and the doors to the place since she is not able to do this?
I’m more impressed with intelligence on a man than these acts of pride and ignorance.
Way to over think a situation. When the weather is bad my husband often drops me off closer to the door because there is no sense in both of us being cold/getting wet. I however, open my own car door as it would be rude of me to expect him to get out and open my door and the facility door when the weather is bad. My husband does all of the things on this list and it has nothing to do with considering me inferior. He holds doors for men and women. We have a little saying, “He wears the pants. I pick the color.” I think that sums up how our relationship works quite well. 🙂 Not all men who do these things do them for sexist reasons. And I have never had a single person not allow me to open a door for them. No man has ever become frustrated or rude when I hold open a door from them.
SANDRA!!! “He wears the pants. I pick the color.” I am probably going to be quoting you for the rest of my life! XD
@Illinois Mike – Or, you could give her a piggyback ride. If she’s petite.
You can have chivalry, or you can have feminism. You cannot have both.
I disagree completely! I am a strong and capable woman and my husband knows it. He does, however, open doors for me when it is appropriate and walk streetside. These are things he does because of who HE is not because of who I am. He is a gentleman and I am respectful of the balance of our relationship. He doesn’t think I am weak and do these things because he think I cannot, he does them because he respects me and I allow him to because I respect him. I know that I can change my own tire should I get a flat, but if he is with me I will let him because he likes to take care of me. If I’m alone he knows I am safe. The two can coexist.
“These are things he does because of who HE is not because of who I am.” I couldn’t have said it better! If a woman defines herself by what a man does or doesn’t do for her, she is missing the point.
These are things he does because he’s your husband and he loves you. It’s not because you’re a woman, it’s because you are THE woman.
The acts of chivarly presented in this page are oriented to being performed by any man for any woman, which is granting special privileges to women as a group because of their gender, and turns men into a subservient role because of their gender.
That is sexism, and is the opposite of equality. Women want equality? Then you don’t get special privileges.
I’m a young able bodied man, and I will give my seat to elderly people, pregnant women and disabled people. If you are a young able bodied woman, you won’t get my seat, because you don’t have any more rights to the seat than me.
Still sounds like you want to have your cake and eat it too.
No true at all. My husband does these things for me, on the whole. My father did these things… Heck, as a mother, I even do some of these things for my children, and vice-versa. I walk streetside when with my children to offer another layer of protection should a car jump the curb or some other accident. Both my sons are excited and proud to get to open doors for me and for strangers just to be nice. My husband has offered for me and the kids to wait inside to run out into a pouring parking lot in order to bring the car around to the front so we can avoid the rain. To me, it has NOTHING to do with gender. People should do this for other people, period. I’m a woman, and I give up seats to anyone that looks like they need it more than me. It has NOTHING to do with feminism and everything to do with simple human courtesy.
You certainly can have both. The true feminists (not the Gloria Stienham type) who expect recognition for equal brain power & capability also allow the social graces of man/woman relationships. Men are not confused about their role and what a woman wants. The over the top feminists surely do not speak for a majority of today’s women.
but they seem to be the ones heard the most in mainstream media
That’s pretty much what Gloria Steinham (spelling!) does promote. Have you read any of her books or articles?
You can have both, but as this comments section proves I’m afraid a cause as noble as feminism is capable been dumbed down to the point of being irrational (at least in its far reaching extremity). At this point, between the woman and the “gentleman”, I think there’s only one minority.
An interesting tidbit. The practice of walking on the street side of the sidewalk actually originates from medieval times. The reasoning is that during the day people would empty their chamber pots out of the second story windows into the street. As anyone knows that lives in a city you can avoid some rain by walking right up against a building so the person whom was walking on the outside of the sidewalk towards the street was more likely to get excrement poured on them. Think about that next time you worry about getting wet from a car splashing you.
Putting on her coat. Helping her take it off is also a Plus. But if you can get to the coat rack first, after a date , pick hers up and help her with it before taking yours.
Reblogged this on Secrets In this Jewel.
Great article! I couldn’t agree more!
http://bigfatlovestory.weebly.com (10 creative date ideas)
Chivalry is dead…because women killed it – Dave Chapelle
You can’t want equality in all aspects and then want special treatment as well. Either we’re an equal team or you’re a special case. You don’t get to have both. Both parties should treat their significant others as king or queens but that doesn’t mean you have to be a servant.
Exactly. Chivalry implies women get special treatment and privileges just for being a woman. They are now getting exactly what they asked for, equality, but they expected to get equality when it was good for them and also to keep their special privileges, and when they realize it does’t work like that, they write blog posts like this.
This post was written by a man…
That being said, a lot of woman agree. I, for one, don’t. I do not expect to be treated any way because I’m a woman. I only expect respect for being a person.
I don’t want special treatment. I want equality. Some women want to cook your dinner in exchange for a door being opened. Other women don’t. Maybe learn to not see 150 billion people as one uniform stereotype.
[…] James Michael Sama / 2 weeks ago […]
I’ve noticed lately more 17/18 year olds holding doors for people. My daughters boyfriend opens doors, carry some bags, even starts her car and pumps her gas when they are together. He saw me stop for gas the other day and stopped to pump mine as well. Chivalry isn’t dead.
What a sweet kid!
THANK YOU!!! THANK YOU!!! THANK YOU!!! There is still hope.
Interesting. Admittedly, I am from an older generation. But, seeing the picture of the guy’s hand on her bare knee, I expected to see a comment about uninvited familiarity or public displays of intimacy not being chivalrous. Did not see it. So, I guess if she bares the knee, that is an invitation to touch?
…? A photo of a man’s hand on a woman’s knee means that it is a photo of a man’s hand on a woman’s knee.
Nothing more, nothing less.
I’m from a younger generation but I absolutely agree with you. The picture is too provocative and is not classy or chivalrous. True Gentlemen don’t just open doors they protect hearts and bodies. They keep the touching of bare skin on the legs for a marriage commitment! Pictures do say something. It’s not just a picture of a mans hands on a woman’s knees just like it’s not a picture of a young nan keeping his seat while a lady stands. Pictures show actions and actions speak of heart issues!
“Man” not nan (correction to typo above)
Well said.
In the picture, it looks as if the two are a well dressed couple on a date. He’s in a suit. She seems to be in a typical “little black dress” that comes to knee length when standing. However, when we sit, our dresses don’t stay at the same length. She has her arms wrapped around his arm, and his hand is resting on her knee. Just looks like a simple show of affection to me, nothing “provocative” about it.
Would you like me to get longer tablecloths to cover the legs of the table darlin?
I’m 26 years old, and I actually thought the same thing as you. It was definitely an odd picture to have in an article on chivalry.
Sorry, couldn’t possibly disagree more. Her hands are clasped around his arm and his hand is on her knee – is this not a common position of a couple sitting somewhere at an event or even at home?
Maybe it’s just my girlfriend and I who are affectionate with each other like this.
@James Michael Sama – Though I disagree with the premise of your original post, I agree that the couple are simply displaying affection for each other and nothing more.
I’m thinking the man’s hand on the knee was a homage to women having knee jerk reactions to this topic.
+1
How about we bring back the murdering and bloodshed that always accompanied chivalry.
Perhaps you should read the definition of the word chivalry.
methinks that you are unfamiliar with chivalry. Bradley got it right.
What Josh said. The roots of “chivalry” has nothing to do with opening doors or putting your jacket over a puddle.
Flat out… respect for each other is key in every relationship and for all human relationships. Teaching this through being that example will go a long way for changing what we can become as a community.
Want to really be chivalrous? Show some respect for the authority of fathers to protect their daughters and call her dad and ask him if he minds if you spend time alone with her on a “date”? Ask his permission to get to know his daughter for the purpose of marriage. Commitment is dead too as well as regard for parental authority.
When his daughter is not 18 and living at home, it just implies that you don’t value her agency and autonomy. I dumped a few guys for trying the whole “your dad” bit. And my dad thought it was dumb and told them to talk to me because I could speak for myself. Reading these comments, I realize I lucked out in the dad department.
[…] or Feminism? Saw this article. 8 Acts Of Chivalry To Bring Back | James Michael Sama It bothers me more than it would have a few years ago. Yes, I hold the door for anyone behind me. […]
I think most people fundamentally misunderstand what Chivalry was about. It wasn’t about holding doors or pulling out chairs, it was about women being property. Be a real man comes the closest to it when it suggests that a man ask permission of a woman’s father to date his daughter rather than asking the woman herself. The reason we can’t have both Chivalry and Feminism is because they are not compatible, and this isn’t actually a problem for people who aren’t afraid of women. You say Chivalry, what you mean is respect.
Yes, this!
Respect for everyone. It’s kindness and respect if a person opens a door for a person who can’t open it, or gives up their seat for a person who needs it more.
It becomes chivalry and sexism when men are expected to do things for any woman just because she’s a woman. We can’t have chivalry and feminism because of what you say, and also because it gives special privileges to women and makes men subservient to them.
I don’t know any women who would object to these. I believe they are mythological creatures lumped in with feminists, but I’ve never spoken with a female who hates kindness towards her.
I would love more guys to act this way and I’m a feminist. Feminism is just wanting equal rights and opportunities (atleast to me). Just because you want equal pay for equal work doesn’t mean you don’t enjoy kindness and signs that someone wants to make you feel special.
Exactly.
We just had a discussion about this at work. The reason why chivalry isn’t around much is because its almost useless. Women want men who are gentlemen, yet date assholes. If women stopped dating guys who treated them like shit and beat them, guess what. Men would change the way they acted. On the flip side most guys who are nice and do things get used and ignored. Theyre called Thirsty, desperate an annoying. This is why Chivalry is almost dead. Also, The fact of men walking on the street-side of a sidewalk. This was done because people used to dump trash out of their windows. Ladies would then be showered in garbage and not the man.
Now that is just not true. I’ve never wanted or dated a bad boy, and I know very few women who do. Neither do I use men or toy with their hearts. Maybe it’s the circles you are running in?
Bella, you sound like the film critic Pauline Kael after Nixon’s reelection in 1972. Kael couldn’t understand how Nixon had won in a landslide because nobody she knew voted for him.
No, it’s because most self-labeled “nice guys” are only being nice to get something, so their “niceness” comes with an expectation (or ten) – most of which are laid out here by various self-proclaimed “nice guys”. It’s not genuine and women pick up on that and start rejecting the “niceness” to avoid the accompanying obligations the guy will start pushing on them (in ways that he thinks are subtle, of course). Also playing into your discussion’s topic, both men and women tend to choose opposites, so initially the rule-followers find the rule-breakers exciting, and date their opposite, which means the good girls date the rebellious guys and the good guys date the rebellious girls. It’s a trend that tends to reverse itself with a few heartbreaks and some maturity, and you seen the genuinely good guys (who rarely label themselves that, actually) ending up long-term with the good girls. Saw it in my dating days, and with all of my younger sibs. There will always be men who have issues and seek out inappropriate partners (and women who do the same), but they aren’t the majority.
I for one am glad chivalry is dead, now it can be replaced with respect, and human to human kindness.
I have always felt incredibly uncomfortable when men or boys treated me like a “lady” because it doesn’t end there, they expect me to act a certain way to be worthy of their chivalry. I know this is anecdotal, but that’s why I said “I for one”
I just want others to treat me kindly as I treat them, and like an individual, who may appreciate a seat given up for her, or sometimes really wants to stand and be left alone.
This goes for anyone I have many times given up a seat for a man who obviously needed it more than I, I have even given my jacket (it was big enough) to a man that was colder than I was.
Good comment. That’s how it should be, respect and kindness for humans, not based on gender.
I disagree with the part of they expecting you to be worthy of their chivarly. If there are expectations on their behaviors, there should be an expectation on the recipient’s behavior as well.
Expectations for everyone or for no one,.
I completely agree. It always comes with expectations in my experience, and the more fluff the guy makes about you being a “lady” and him being a “gentleman,” the bigger and ruder the imposition that’s coming. And god forbid you forget about their presence and expectations long enough to do something they consider unladylike (and you’re also expected to psychically know what those things are and care enough to adhere to their standards). Because once they’ve established that you’re NOT a lady by their judgment, the filthy stories and rudeness reach heights that have other men coming over and asking if you’re okay, or restaurant staff asking him to please restrain his voice and not use that language. Whereas guys who maybe grab a door or let you grab a door and maybe offer a coat when it’s cold, but don’t make a big issue of it, generally remain fairly civil and well-behaved regardless of how you behave. Which I find much much preferable. I understand that some women prefer something different, but I can’t for the life of my understand why. Their choice, though.
I agree with these! I have one suggestion. Under the compliments section: don’t just tell her she’s beautiful. Tell her she’s bright, funny and talented. Tell her she’s a wonderful mother/wife/girlfriend. Compliments on her external beauty are wonderful, but compliments on her internal beauty and intelligence last so much longer and make her external beauty shine from the inside out!
That is, compliment her in such as way if she is actually any of those things to you. Don’t say her poop doesn’t stink when she obviously just ate a bean burrito. Real compliments based on real assets go the farthest, as eventually she may realize you are lying to get into her good graces. And by good graces, I mean her pants.
In the south, these manners are taught from the time we are very young. We still say “yes Ma’am”
and “no Sir”. We also wave at people we don’t even know while driving. We greet people while passing them anywhere… in a store or on the sidewalk. We speak to people when we enter a lobby or waiting room, “How are y’all doing?” We say, “Excuse me” if we bump into someone. We say, “Bless you” when someone sneezes. All of these things show we care about others and make the world a little nicer place to live in. It is all about respect and caring for others.
Chivalry never died. It just went the same place being ladylike went.
Chivalry was a code of conduct for knights in medieval times. It certainly is not some edict handed down from God about interaction between the sexes.
It’s my personal opinion that a woman who believes she should get any special respect simply because of that extra X chromosome is simply wrong. All these things are fine to do but they are things we should all do for each other.
By the way, the code of chivalry was largely about caring for the weak, including women children and the elderly.
I love it when people hold the door open for me but I go ahead and hold the next one for them. And as a young, capable woman, I have no expectation of a seat on public transport. I wouldn’t let someone give it up for me either. That’s just silliness.
If these acts are about serving someone as a person, they are fine and good. If they are about serving a woman for the sake of her feminist, it’s benovelent sexism which benefits no one. That’s how I feel.
Benevolent sexism for the woman, bad sexism for the man who is put in a subservient inferior position. Otherwise, a round of applause for your comment.
Thrice huzzah for this article. Being a gentleman has nothing to do with chauvenism; it’s a sign of unselfishness and respect for another being.
I dig chivalry, I like being chivalrous. I take pride in it. But chivalry, which is a sign of respect, to some degree, is earned.
Perhaps the same generation of women who grew up watching Sex and the City and learning and practicing that women can “F*ck like a man” should look in the mirror, and ask themselves not where the chivalry went, but what ever happened to acting like a “lady”?
I would contest that they are just as rare as gentlemen.
As far as the compliments go there is an art to it:
Make sure the compliments are true.
Try to compliment more on character than on looks (e.g. I like that you’re confident). It’s nice to be told you’re beautiful but always commenting on looks instead of character gets old and fake.
This probably is a case by case basis but I’m very ok with my boyfriend complimenting another woman (respectfully of course) that is not me. In fact, I like when he tells my friends they’re pretty or is giving a pep talk to them saying ‘You are worth more than that guy you’re dating, you’re smart, pretty and funny.’
The more racy compliments (e.g. I like your hot ass), are reserved for serious relationships and is gross from strangers or any non significant other.
I agree and try to follow these types of rules in my every day life. I have one question. If I am about to hold the door open for someone and the door opens to the inside of the building, do I step in front of the person, open the door and step inside to hold the door or lean in and let the person nudge past me?
You could open the door and lean on it enough to keep it open. This allows the person for whom you are holding the door to enter first.
The article is good, but the picture showing too much of a girl’s upper leg and the guy’s hand resting on her bare knee is inappropriate and doesn’t fit with the ideal of chivalry at all.
Her arms are wrapped around his, they are clearly mutually affectionate towards each other. Is affection inappropriate?
It depends on how you define affectionate, whether or not a couple is married (yes, I believe that certain types of touching should only be between married couples), and what is considered appropriate in public. A true gentleman wouldn’t touch a lady in this manner in public (and not at all if she wasn’t his wife), and a true lady wouldn’t allow it in public. But then, a true lady wouldn’t be wearing a skirt this short or baring that much of her upper leg in public anyway. It has to do with morals and modesty.
We find ourselves incredibly far apart on this opinion, Diana.
I’m sorry if you feel that in 2014 a skirt/dress above the knee is “this short” or that a true lady wouldn’t dress in this manner.
I also find it interesting that you think a hand on a knee is inappropriate touching in public. We must agree to disagree, I’m afraid.
My old boyfriend, would open my door first and seat me and then go sit down in the driver seat. I mean, its the thought, nothing wrong with being respectful 😀 Plus, makes you feel fancy 😛
@James Michael Sama – For such a permissive society, I’m astonished at the amount of prissiness that I see today in posts such as Diana’s. It’s mutual affection, plain and simple and something for which to strive. Also, I’m continually amazed that so many women, like Diana, claim to know what a true gentleman is or what a real man is.
Are you implying that the treatment a fellow human deserves is based on the length of that person’s bottoms?
I’m going to start honking at men wearing ankle pants and no socks and shouting inappropriate epithets at them. If they wanted my respect, they’d dress like gentlemen. I only smile at men who wear pants longer than their ankle bones.
Ridiculous.
I see the illustration for this article as meaning if you act like a gentleman, you’re allowed to start your way up her thigh.
Unfortunately a lot of women aren’t ladies.
Very true, and a lot of men aren’t gentlemen. That shouldn’t prevent folks from doing what is right anyway, though. If we treat others with respect, we’re more likely to be treated with respect, and we are certainly more likely to respect ourselves if we treat others right.
Diana, the difference is that too many women still expected to be treated like ladies, even though they aren’t. Men are at least honest about what they are.
Bob, no, men who are not gentlemen still expect to be treated a certain way by women. Your posts would be exhibit A.
I’ll probably get a lot of flack for saying this, but as someone who has grown up in the country/suburbs but works as a social worker in the cities, when I open the door or give up my seat for someone, they notice and are thankful. This is simply how I was raised so it seems second nature to behave in this manner. When I am in the city, it has been MY experience that it is MUCH more likely that doors will not be opened, seats will not be given up, etc. probably because some parental figure has not demonstrated through their lifestyle the importance of being mindful of others. There are some wonderful mothers and fathers out there and I think we can all agree that teaching children manners and respect takes time and effort. Sometimes it is an easily forgotten task. We shouldn’t assume that someone had malicious intentions when chivalry is not displayed – many times people have simply not been taught or encouraged to act this way. However, as an adult, I believe it is our responsibility to encourage respectful behavior and I believe that includes putting others before yourself simply because it is the right thing to do. If you have a problem with people being courteous, you have too much time on your hands and need to get out there and understand the terrible situations some people are living under!
A big part of the reason why men don’t do these things any more is illustrated by some of the comments from feminists. Not only do some women today not appreciate such acts of chivalry, but they are incapable of simply politely saying, “I’d prefer if you didn’t do that”, but instead must become screaming harpies yelling about sexism. I’ve seen cases where feminists reported a co-worker for “sexual harassment” because he opened a door for her.
That’s why I try to make little gestures like this whenever possible. Non-feminist women see it as a sign of respect, and feminist women are grossly offended. Win-win.
🙂
I must admit that I never thought of that. Chivalry with a subversive edge. Interesting.
I’m a feminist who has her door opened and I’ve never once been offended. In fact, I’ve opened doors for a massive number of both men and women in my lifetime and not once has anyone said or done anything rude. It’s quite common. Perhaps you live in a non-western culture?
Where did you see a coworker reported for sexual harassment for opening a door? That’s not a case that a company would take seriously and anyone who reported something that trivial as her sole evidence of harassment would be on the next round of firing as a potential troublemaker/lawsuit for the company. (as all women are acutely aware). Without more details, I would have to believe there was more to that story.
Gross generalization and exaggeration without full facts. I’d prefer if you didn’t do that.
Unless your handicapped or pregnant, a woman is perfectly capable of standing up on a bus or train. Many men have physical labor jobs and are exhausted after 8 hrs, so while many women have a sit down job, they should not get mad if a man doesnt give up their seat to them as the man might be extremely exhausted. They dont get mad when other women dont give them their seat.
I’m sorry, but did you just go from not-sexist to very-sexist in two seconds flat? Women are perfectly capable of standing…but it’s because so many of us have desk jobs? I work on my feet for 16+ hours a day at two different jobs. Please don’t assume when I get onto any public transport wearing a button-up shirt and slacks that I have a “desk-job”.
(Side note, I’m not upset when a man doesn’t give up his seat for me; I get upset when he doesn’t give it up to those who need it just because he’s tired. If I can stand for an extra 30-min to an hour after working multiple shifts out of respect for another human being, stranger or not, being tired is not a valid excuse.)
I bet if an attractive women in high heels came on a bus or train, you would be like oh well, your butt is about to stand for 30 minutes, why should i give my seat up to you. If a man does it people are looking at him with the side eye as to why he has not offered her his seat. I took public transport all the time and I would hear women mouthing off that there are no gentlemen simply because they saw other women standing, while met were sitting down.
Maybe Im not a gentleman, but Like I said before unless your pregnant, old or disabled, or I know you, you are a human being and can stand.
Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man.
A woman is not inherently weak, nor is she property. She does not need to be coddled, protected from the world, checked out from her parents like a library book, not held accountable for her actions, and expected to be incapable of taking care of herself. All these statements in the above article would be much more suited to respecting people in general, and not just women. I hold doors for people because it is a nice thing to do, especially if they are struggling with it. Maybe they have an injury or disability. Being a woman is not a disability. I do not automatically assume that someone should be put on a cushioned pedestal merely because they are a certain gender. A woman is not a prize show dog. When I open a door for someone I hope that I made them happy, and served as a good example of human kindness which they may reciprocate to another in the future.
Frequently as a woman my capabilities are disrespected in the name of chivalry. Men will open doors for me, but not for the next man. Men will help me up, but not for the next man. Men will give flowers, but never get flowers themselves. Men will stop and offer to help me with an automotive issue, but won’t stop if they see only my man struggling with the same issue, though we are equally capable of the task. Why am I assumed to be incapable? Why are men assumed to be more capable? I appreciate people with strength and try to be a good example of it for both genders.
Men will still call me “Sweetie” or “Honey” or “Dear” in a professional setting. I am not being treated nicely, I am being disrespected. You are treating me with condescending sexual pandering. Are we dating? No? Then don’t call me your sweetie. Do not assume that because I am a woman that I surely do not have any automotive knowledge. Unfortunately we do allow women to be mechanically ignorant by rushing to do it for them throughout their lives. It becomes expected to coddle a woman as unwilling to get their hands dirty with menial labor, and anyone that allows it must surely be the a—hole. I see my man disrespected because he respects my capabilities. “Why are you doing that? Wasn’t there a man there to do it for you?” or “What are you doing? That’s man’s work.” I have been asked all of these. They are all chauvinism under the guise of chivalry.
Many mothers teach their young men to act towards women in a way they themselves wish they were treated. I have overheard a woman chiding her young son in a market with “Remember, Carlos. Women are always right.” It’s a vagina, not a Pope hat. Having a vagina does not make you infallible nor does it obligate you to a golden throne of superiority. A woman should never use her sexuality as a tool to get what she wants. A woman should not be brought up to disrespect her own sexuality as a shameful thing to put under lock and key. A vagina is not an object to be won. A vagina is not an altar with which you place gifts before in the hopes for its blessing. It is a gift to be given freely to those you love and trust enough to receive it. A good dick is as worthy of praise and a good vagina. Most people will try to get away with whatever you let them get away with. Thus I see women frequently acting terribly chauvinist by demanding to be treated like royalty while using their men as a foot stool. Why? Because the foot stool allows it. The foot stool thinks if they point out that the emperor has no clothes, they probably won’t get laid. The emperor hates being held accountable, even when they are absolutely wrong. “Yes Dear.” is the calling card of a foot stool that thinks their partner is too weak to tolerate being held accountable. Power plays and subterfuge are counter to having a stable relationship.
A good man has a spine. A good man does not allow anyone to be disrespected, including themselves, and certainly does not expect a woman to be an inferior incapable child which needs to be coddled. A good man is desired for his qualities, is a worthy equal, and does not have to crawl on his knees to get laid. Treat others how you would want to be treated, and it will return to you in kind. If it does not, that person is not worth your efforts. Love is a two way street. Be nice to each other, but don’t let someone, even your partner, disrespect you. My man and I do equal amounts of work and show equal amounts of affection. We love each other. We respect each other. We stand on a pedestal together. We bow to no one.
The problem I see with chivalry is the common assumptions on either side. The receiving women believe they are being treated so well because they are being put on a pedestal as a superior gender deserving worship. The men, however, are lead to believe that women are incapable of, or shouldn’t be allowed to do, all the things they have been trained they must do to be a worthy man. BOTH sides are often being chauvinist. Both sides are pandering to an old stereotype. Both sides are being disrespectful of the other gender. If you can come to a clear agreement of the tasks expected of both sides, that’s fine, but let it be open and discussed. Let it be known that you do not think the other is incapable of anything, but choose your responsibilities fairly and equally. “Because I’m a woman” Is no excuse for lack of equality. Let me repeat that being a women is not a disability.
Let us not bring chivalry back. Let us start respecting each other as equals, for the first time in history.
I’m sorry you’ve been a victim of all those experiences and beliefs that have made you so bitter and determined to keep everything at bay. As for the rest of us who still believe that treating a Lady properly and NOT as property will continue to so and hopefully those actions will be of good to someone. Good day.
Apparently you only skimmed what I wrote. I apologize for writing an in depth response to an article designed for quick digestion and knee jerk reactions. Let me break it down concisely and let’s hold those knees. My stated goal here is instead of only asking that men treat women nicely, a man (and women!) should also treat *everyone* nicely. I’m sorry if you didn’t understand, and somehow assume asking for gentlemanly behavior from everyone equally somehow makes me “bitter and determined to keep everything at bay.” Thank you for proving my point by not taking this woman seriously, not reading what I had to say about gender equality, and then coloring me as a feminazi. And thank you for, in effect, summarizing my post, in which I spent some time on in the hopes of maturing some minds, for quick skimmers which in no way reflects what I wrote. Now, let us go try being chivalrous to a transvestite. We’ll ease you into being nice to more than just women, and hold onto that jerky knee for you…… just like in this article’s picture. *gasp* Well played, author. Well played. BWAHAHA. Good day. *drops mic*
@voaclvarieties: “bitter?” “determined to keep everything at bay?” Where are you getting this from? Certainly not the post directly above yours–who are you responding to?
I read the full comment and agree.
I’ve also experienced every situation from a professional situation you described at a variety of employers across a few different industries during my decades in the workforce. It’s fairly common.
Great post.
Just a thought: throughout history, pedestals have held objects, not people. A person would not be able to balance more than a few moments on your average pedestal.
Agree. It also reduces the person on the pedestal to an object, which does not act, but is acted upon. People who are seen as fully people are seen as the actors, with the agency and autonomy to act, while objects are the subjects of their action, or the actees. Forcing people into the actee role because of their gender is a problem.
My wife asked me while we were dating why I insisted on walking street side. It’s good to see articles and ideas like this. Thanks!
“Chivalry!—why, maiden, she is the nurse of pure and high affection—the stay of the oppressed, the redresser of grievances, the curb of the power of the tyrant —Nobility were but an empty name without her, and liberty finds the best protection in her lance and her sword.”
My husband and I have been married for over 16 years. He does the things listed in the article for me still, after having been together for nearly 20 years. He doesn’t do them because he thinks I’m weak. He does them because he loves me and that’s one of his ways of showing it. I love that he takes the extra moment to be so considerate. I’m a fairly strong minded woman: served in the military for nearly 10 years, served in public office, Mom of 4 – I’m not weak. I do appreciate his thoughtfulness.
Reblogged this on Tears create rainbows in our hearts and commented:
I love this piece. Common courtesy + common sense = chivalry. I just wondered why it is said to be “COMMON” when the practice is so “RARE”. Ah, what a paradox!
Love these – solid gold advice for any man! I know sometimes men complain that when they DO try these the gal might get defensive or not know how to respond (perhaps because it happens so rarely and is no longer part of popular culture). So I think we ladies need to grow in our receptivity and affirmation when a gentleman DOES try to be chivalrous.
I would like to know where you get statistics on men pulling out chairs?
Probably from where he sits down.
You can’t expect men to be completely egalitarian and be “chivalrous” at the same time. You actually literally can’t do that. If you really want equal expectations in the workplace and in social settings, you might have to give up some things like letting us pull out your chair, opening doors, or expecting non stop compliments. Am i saying that men shouldn’t be generous? No, of course I don’t think that. Men should open doors and give compliments, but only occasionally, to do so all the time makes women seem as one that always needs assistance, as one who can’t, or shouldn’t, act for herself. This is not the case. However, some of the points of the original article are valid, Men should give women their seat, or walk her to her door, because that is what you should do for literally everybody. Man or woman, if they are less capable than you, you should give your seat, because to not do so would make you a jerk. The ultimate point, women need to stop expecting men to be egalitarian and chivalrous, but overall men should stop being jerks. We’re both in the wrong, but no one wants to admit it.
I’m one of a few women here saying that we are more than happy to give up having chairs pulled out, opened doors, and (usually condescending) compliments in the workplace. Please please please feel free to stop doing those things if it means I’ll get the same consideration and respect and immediate assumption of potential and ambition that male colleagues tend to. Easiest trade ever.
If we all started with common courtesy – treating others as we’d like to be treated – this wouldn’t be a problem. Having someone treat me with courtesy or concern doesn’t make me weak or infirm – it makes one feel taken care of. Either gender appreciates kindness or thoughtfulness. If someone gets defensive when I attempt to be courteous, I feel sorry for them, apparently they expect to be treated poorly.
I’d argue one of the main reasons you see less and less “gentlemen” is because more and more men are waking up to the fact that being “nice, kind and chivalrous” doesn’t get you laid. On the other hand, being an ass DOES get you laid – not being chivalrous, not holding the door open, not calling or texting back, showing up late to dates if at all, no flowers, no chocolates, no limos and definitely no compliments. Displaying the “i’m a bad boy and I don’t give a shit” type of attitude is what does work. Every time I tried being the chivalrous nice guy, I got shit on, every…single…time. What happened when I was taught to stop being nice and start being a jerk? The most beautiful women I’d seen in my life started paying attention to me.
Plus, how often are we bombarded with your typical feminist mantras like, “Oh, I’m strong, independent, capable, I don’t need a man, blah blah blah”? If women don’t need men, then they can open their own doors.
Crass, but I agree with you on everything except the bad behavior paying off. It pays off with a certain set of issues that some girls do have – but then you’re left with the issues, and that tends to create bitter, unhappy men as well. Some men have a preference for women with those issues, so I guess it all works out for them eventually. Your choice, I guess.
You’re right though – women can open their own doors. No prob.
[…] I’m so grateful that my husband is one of them. I’ve attached the blog post from Michael Sama who wrote the article I loved. Tell me below what is your favorite act of chivalry and click on […]
I don’t know if this is a common chivalry practice, but along with opening the door for a lady, I either let her walk into the building/house/store/etc first, or upon exiting, I walk out the place first and then hold the door.
Guess the reason I do this is that I want to show her that the place I’m leading her into is safe, but on the other hand, going out into an unpredictable environment, I want to make sure to try and shield her from it.
Even when I was a little girl, I was taught to do those things for my elders. I open doors for anyone who needs the help and some who don’t need help. On the subject of chivalry, I think both men & women need to drop the swearing in public. I hate it when I get on an elevator and guys are talking sports, or their dates or their jobs and the swear words just pour out of their mouths. Many women are just as bad. Also ladies and gentlemen, kindly put your phones away and have real conversations with people. Yes, I’m a little old lady in my 60’s so you think I’m out dated. Well, I don’t think manners are wrong no matter how old or young a person is.
This article should be called ‘what most southern Dads teach their sons’.
I agree with all but the first one. I can only accept that one conditionally.
When I take the train to work, there are scores of people and dozens of women. Who do I give my seat up to? The most attractive one? There’s no way to do this that isn’t sexist. Those women are going to work just like I am. I’m not on a date with them; I’m not trying to have sex with them. If anything they are my peers. Giving up a seat for a peer who doesn’t need it any more than I is silly and awkward.
Now If I’m on a date and there’s only one seat, of course the lady gets it. Or if an older lady, or man for that matter, enters the train, or someone with a disability or a baby, that person gets my seat. It’s about being a conscientious gentleman, not an opportunistic douche-bag.
Bald Eagle out!
why should men be chivalrous? imean women wanted equality right? well here you go then…open your own doors and pull out your own seats. men aren’t going to give you any more favors.
I married my husband 15 years ago. He does several of these things and is teaching them to our sons. To this day, he still drops me off at the door and then goes and parks. I am more than capable of opening my own door when necessary, but it is quite nice when someone does it for you to show they care.
This has nothing to do with equality in the world.
I whole heartedly agree with Joyce. It’s about love, honor, respect and protection not favors. Men cannot be by a women’s sides all of the time and while it is good for women to be independent, when the men in our lives are around it is SO refreshing when they do open a door or walk closer to the side walk. Men show they notice and they are being gentlemen and it is important to teach it to children/boys. Women have so many other responsibilities to tackle in this crazy world like being constantly hitting on, talked to badly, pursued by unwelcome advances and we often have to balance these things with OUR equal rights during work and our living environments without losing confidences or getting ruffled. It is very nice and welcomed when men in our circles can show decorum because they know too well how inappropriate the real world can be when it comes to men and behavior.
Yes it does
I already do most all of these things without even thinking, but dropping my girlfriend off at the door while I go park feels wrong, because what if something were to happen while she waits and I’m not there?
To quote Chris Rock: “Chivalry is dead. And you know who killed it? You did, ladies.”
Do you do the same for things for him or somehow you feel entitled to this kind of treatment for the good old days sake?To be equals you have to be treated equally.
Women do different things for men, like bring out the snacks and beer on game days and poker nights, do a few choice things in the bedroom, and multitask your forgottens so that you don’t fall behind. Don’t pretend that women wanting equal pay without the added sexual harassment is the reason for your own laziness. If women are at fault in any way, it’s because they’ve stopped expecting common decency.
Chase, I agree. Safety in numbers. And I also would get bored and cold standing outside waiting for my guy to park and meet me. Much better to have slightly sore feet and good company.
Why should I, as a man, be chivalrous? Because I’m a man, not a petulant child snarking about how women are getting what’s coming to them.
your single right?
Thank you Mark,, Doing these things does show care & respect, and it’s a good quality I find rare in most men today. Keep it up.
For real – thank you for your truth comment.
Nessie- Probably not for long if he’s got that attitude. Way to be a real man, Mark! 🙂
Don’t be a damn fool, Mark. All they want is for men to kiss their rear ends. Need a woman? RENT ONE! It will cost you less money and cause you less trouble.
And it is men like you who are grown and thoughtful of others instead of acting the petulant child who keep the new generations inspired! Thank you on behalf of my three sons who have learned these same traits, the ones that their dad used to do for all the women in his ife before he passed. You, sir, are a good example!
Thank you Mark for being one of the few men on here not making a misogynistic, trolling response. It is appreciated. Truthfully, I don’t care too much about chivalry, I just want more men to stop being so nasty all the time. Too much to ask for, apparently.
I agree with Blue.
Because we should be men and not sissy’s and wimps!! I real man is a gentleman, chivalrous, not afraid to show emotions and not afraid of what others think. You can still do all these things and be a man at the same time..hey a guy is still a guy! listen to brad paisley’s son.
Thank you, michael. :o)
well said!
and this here is why your girl is around the corner sneaking around with the douchebag that has 20 inch biceps
Excellent Michael! Yes we all know Zero (what an appropriate name) John & moses (and the loser chris rock) are single.
It all part of the lost “art” called respect! its a shame self-center lil pukes of today werent taught that by their parents.
and as for the few bitter angry ”feminists” who get insulted when I hold open the door for them the best lien I heard when the y ask “are you holding the door for me because Im a woman” I say NO Im holding the door open because Im a gentleman
I’ll hold a door open for anyone behind me, man or woman, because I’m not an asshole. If it’s convenient, I’ll pull out a date’s chair for them, because that *always* makes me look good. But I’ll be damned if I’m gonna give up a seat on a bus for a woman just because she’s a woman. If she’s in heels and clearly uncomfortable, I might. If she’s holding a child or is pregnant, I’ll always give up my seat. But for a woman in seemingly good health that is just as able to stand as I am? Hell no. You people want equality, well equality encompasses both the good and the bad. Take it or leave it.
I am 71 years old, a former disabled Army Combat Officer, have cancer in the liver and bones it makes it difficult for me to stand and I do all these things and more for my wife, daughters, and any woman when and if the occasion arises! Equality has nothing to do with it, my dignity as a man has everything to do with it!
I like your reasoning.
I’m a woman, Austin, and I agree with you on that one. I certainly appreciate it, but I always say, “No, thank you.” when a man offers me a seat on the subway. He’s probably had just as long a day as mine. That really doesn’t make any sense to me.
I agree with you completely Austin. I would not give up my seat on a bus or train to a random woman just because she’s a woman. I would, however, give up my seat to an elderly person, regardless of gender, or to a person that just looks like they may have some medical condition that would seemingly cause them pain to remain standing. But to just give my seat to a woman because she’s a woman, pshhh. I also hold open doors for whoever is behind me or whomever is coming out as I’m entering. I think it’s just silly to do it for a woman just because she’s a woman.
I’d never expect a random man to do any of these things for me, but I’ll tell you, if there is one seat on the subway and MY guy takes it, it is a mark against him. I wouldn’t have taken the seat because I would want us to be close or at least at eye level while we talk, so if he helps himself, it says something about how he views my company.
Austin, I agree. To be honest, I personally don’t know of any women who have a problem standing on a bus or subway. No need to be defensive 🙂
Chivalry has NOTHING to do with equality. Look up the definition of the word.
Tell that to the feminists.
I don’t mind standing if she doesn’t mind kneeling.
I think I know why your spike is rusty, Rusty.
I would technically agree with your assertion. However, chivalry was born out of a time when there was not equality and woman conformed to gender roles. In this time of equality the “perks” of being a man are no longer there, so why should they be there for women?
I don’t believe chivalry should disappear just because a woman is a feminist. For one thing, not all of us are. There are still Ladies who would be very receptive to chivalry and appreciative of the caring and respect of a gentleman. For a man to care enough to make the effort is very manly and certainly wins my heart. Mark isn’t saying to give up a seat for any woman. He is saying to give up a seat for the elderly or someone who looks like they’re struggling. I’ve done that and believe we all should be aware of people around us.
@ John, feminists are the ones saying the chivalry is the opposite of equality.
The women demanding chivalry generally aren’t self-identifying as feminists.
And that is why you are a zero
No, he’s just smart.
You, sir, are a jerk.
No, he sees things as they actually are. I hope you like cats.
That is why the name Zero fits you so well!
I am probably nibbling at bait right now, as this seems SO MUCH an appropriate User Name for such a post. But on the slightest (and saddest) possibility that you were actually serious; know it or not, many women who would come by the knowledge of your expressed opinion will probably easily guess that moniker of yours. Good luck, friend (or BAZINGA….you got me!).
I have to partially agree we can’t demand equal treatment and special treatment at the same time. At the same time I don’t see why people can’t do these things for each other regardless of gender. I can understand giving up a seat to a senior, disabled, or a pregnant woman, but I wouldn’t expect a man to give up his seat or pull out my chair just because I have a vagina. That same man would probably feel embarrassed if a woman did the same for him. I don’t understand why in these times we still feel the need for gender specific roles. It’s no longer necessary.
Yes. It is necessary. We women have roles. Men have roles. That’s not something of the times. It’s biological.
I’m so sick of the feminist attitude AND the accompanying whiney male attitude. Men, be men. Women, be women. Life is much easier that way.
EXACTLY! I always open a door for someone if they are behind me, regardless of the gender. It is just common courtesy. I don’t expect men to treat me any differently because I am a woman but it is always nice to see someone go the extra mile regardless of the gender or who it is for. Giving up your seat for anyone is a kind thing to do. What I find frustrating is that when you are walking anywhere with someone and one of you moves closer or behind the other person so there is enough walking space for the other person to pass except the person that accompanies them NEVER moves! I just moved for both of you and you can’t move in the slightest? What happened to common courtesy? That is what is dead here.
Pat, your bleating circles back to Chris Rock’s line about who caused the death of chivalry. Your solipsism prevents you from accepting your share of the responsibility.
Pat. The traditional roles had to go because women didn’t have equal rights. We are trying to break into a new age of enlightenment and equality. Please let it happen.
I agree Jerilyn. You’d think more men would be behind the removal of gender roles, as they so often make a man’s “manliness” dependent on the behavior and choices of women, rather than inherent to the man and his own choices. It’s all very twisted.
When you grow up you will understand.
It has nothing to do with equality, it’s about showing appreciation for your partner. It’s a pity that within the next few generations chivalry will be gone.
So sad how some people in this world think. We are all entitled to our opinions but what happened to good wholesome respectful people? I guess it goes back to the way we were raised and I believe that’s the culprit of the problem! Some Parents aren’t parents anymore by failing to teach good Christian morals and values! Oh and heaven forbid i mention anything involving Christianity. I might offend the devil, lol!
My dear husband does all the above! He says it feels great to be respectful and kind! Shame on all you chauvinistic boys in a man body! You missing out on a great thing! Pride will eventually eat at ya😘
“We are all entitled to our opinions but what happened to good wholesome respectful people?”
In a word Laurie, feminism.
In a word, Bob: Excuse.
A fairly small but loud group of women decided that equality meant caring, respectful actions were actually offensive and a select portion of men latched on to the idea. Sure, why not. If that woman over there says she doesn’t want her date to pick her up at the door, you’re going to honk your horn me. Well, here’s a thought. That woman is probably also never going to go down on her partner because it’s “demeaning” and never cook him a meal. Ever. She’ll disregard his opinion in favor of her own and lend an ear for his problems only when it doesn’t interfere with her own ambition. If you want that kind of equality, then sure. Honk when you get here.
@ Dorothy and Bob, feminists were loud about the right of women to vote, to own property, to have their own bank accounts, etc. You won’t find a lot of feminist literature about men opening doors. Not in the 1800s, not in the 1900s, and not in the 2000s. The vast majority of feminists are asking for equality – to be treated equally – and since men don’t hate other men because other men won’t let these men open their doors for them. So the logic around how women deserve a penalty because they won’t be “ladylike” and “let” these things be done for them (regardless of their own individual needs, wishes, preferences, etc.) is also a sign of inequality. Being treated equally would mean that men who decline an open door are judged the same way that women are when we decline an opened door (assuming that happens – I’ve never seen or heard of it in real life, and I know a lot of good ol’ southern people and a lot of hardcore male and female feminists).
Back in the middle of the 19th century, when feminists began holding conventions in order to organize for feminism, how many chivalrous gentlemen were extending their chivalry towards black women?
Yep. Good choice on the username bud.
i dont understand chivalry in the first place.. everything that its saying is men should be subserviant in order to get her to like him..
How old are you Quinton if I may ask? I know the culture has warred against youth and given them very poor models of true love between the genders. Chivalry is not about being subservient, but about a man being a man to a woman in showing her care, honor and simple decency. Quinton, we never lower ourselves by seeking to lift another up-we can’t help but lift ourselves up in the process.
Van M, a lady is worthy of chivalry. Unfortunately, ladies are a very rare breed today. Women are equal to men, as I’ve heard incessantly for the last three decades. Women want to be equal? So let them be equal. I don’t know how old you are Van M, but I suspect you grew up long ago in a very different time. Whether you like it or not, times have changed and not for the better.
Exactly. And putting a woman on a pedestal is the quickest way for her to lose any attraction she had for you – which of course goes against 50 years of feminist programming, but it’s the truth.
It grew out of a time when (a) women were property, their husbands were chosen by their fathers, husbands could legally beat their wives, women who cheated were killed while men were expected to cheat; (b) there was no birth control, so most women were married off in their early/mid teens, and then spent the majority of their adult life pregnant before dying before or in their 40s; (c) there was no birth control, so the many menstrual cycle-related issues that women today can medicate left non-pregnant women bedridden (migraines, horrific cramps, nausea, etc.) at least 1-2 weeks (the week before and/or the week of a period) a month; (d) there were no feminine hygiene products, so a woman’s monthly severely limited her mobility for 3-7 days a month as well for a variety of obvious reasons (this remains a problem in a few third-world nations today, and there are news articles about the wonderful and sympathetic man who is trying desperately to find a solution after watching his wife and sister struggle). Since women were chattel and nothing more, despised by the church, with zero rights under the law, chivalry arose as a way of pleading and asking that women (mostly only those of the nobility / royalty – peasants were excluded) not be abused too horribly. It was not unlike the pleas by Humane Shelters and Animal Rescues today, asking you to bring your pets in on a cold night, or capture and spay feral cats, or report any dogs that you see chained out in the sun on a hot summers day.
So to ask that men be nice to their human property back then made sense. Today, however, it probably feels onerous and selfish to hear these expectations from a male perspective. And speaking as a woman, most of us have a lifetime of experience in which we’ve learned that, husbands and family members aside, a man who does something for you usually expects you to do something in return, even if it’s just tolerate his vaguely condescending complements after, or let him stare at your backside as you walk through a door that he’s holding. And because most of us have a lot going on, we roll with the punches and put up with it. Doesn’t mean it’s okay or our preferred situation.
Wow. Bet you’re a fun date on a Saturday night. Sheesh. Your pen name fits you perfectly.
If it were that easy zero…women are paid at a rate of 75% or less for performing equal work as a professional in the corporate arena, and we usually take on the requirement of staying home and being primary care givers to young children and aging parents…how convenient to stand upon the principle of equality when it suits you in the finer graces of not being a gentle person.
a real gentlemen would have his priorities in line – not live above his means. So he could afford to have his wife stay home and actually interact and shape the children into real intellectual thinkers that will make something of themselves one day..Thank god for my father
“…women are paid at a rate of 75% or less for performing equal work as a professional in the corporate arena…” Cici, that is rubbish. Why? Because if it were true, no capitalist would ever hire a man because the company would instantly cut their cost of labor by 25% or more, a cost savings that would go directly to the bottom line. So, why doesn’t that happen? I’ll let you ponder that one, but I’ll give you a hint. It’s not sexism.
And that’s why women call you a pig.
women want equality in regards to our thoughts and ability to work outside of the household when it is needed. Men still want to date a “lady” well… we still want to date a “gentlemen”. As stated in the article a man should not do not do these thing because a female “can’t”, but because she is with a man that loves and cares for her and wants her to know (that for him) she is set apart from other women.
i hope this does not read in an offensive or attacking manner. this is merely the personal opinion of a women that has not been treated well by men/males other than her father.
Ann, though you attempt to make your point as kindly as possible, I’m afraid that you come across as one who wants equality except when you don’t.
Emily, nice shart. How many hours did it take for you show us all the endless fount of your wisdom?
Oh. Shut up.
Emily, nice shart. How many hours did it take for you show us all the endless fount of your wisdom?
@ Emily – Bob’s a troll and he’s here to show us what happens when men without manners think they’re “nice guys.” Ignore.
When I was a teenager, I did all that for women. Then the women’s movement came along. When women decided they could live without men during those years, they forfeited those little nice things. Fortunately, men decided that women were more of a burden than anything else. Be careful what you ask for. You might just get it.
Great point Zero.
I can see why your name is Zero…
that’s why your a zero
Chivalry has nothing to do with equality. It is fine that you reject these fine-pointed suggestions; it isn’t about MEN giving ‘any more favors’. Perhaps it’s about females, and whether or not YOU remain in favor. These are very simple, and romantic, ways to set yourself apart. I encourage young lads to heed these suggestions. When you are trying to make your initial impression, these suggestions make that impression.
Diane, while the “young lads” following your advice will be condemned to a life as beta orbiters in the friendzone, Harley McBadboy and Studly McRockbanddrummer will be availing themselves of the favors of today’s women. Your post above is why women should never give dating or relationship advice to men. Women know nothing about it.
I actually agree. I am not an elderly person, so please do not give me your seat. I’m strong enough to stand on my own, thanks. As for doors? If people would just not be jerks, and hold doors for *people* who are right behind them, or whose hands are full, we wouldn’t need “chivalry”, just don’t be a jerk. ALSO — if you are on a first date with a new woman and you walk her to her door without asking her? You’re not being chivalrous, you’re being imposing. That sets up an expectation of a kiss or an invitation in, and if you’ve misread her signals and she doesn’t like you, you have put her in a position where she cannot enter her own home without turning her back on a man who is blocking her way off her own porch. No, that wouldn’t make me feel “safe”, that would make me feel like I need to think long and hard about calling you back.
My husband is into some of these things because they have been ingrained in him. I humor him because it really doesn’t hurt anyone if he walks closer to the street, but he knows very well that I don’t need or want his chivalry. This article claims these actions are not based in chauvanism, but the reasons given are all about providing safety, not ‘making’ women do extra work, etc. That’s what chivalry has always been. “Protecting” the “weaker gender” as a form of “respect”. No thank you.
This.
For the exact same reason that I hold doors open for men regardless of age or capability, when they are approaching it behind me or give up my seat to a person who is elder than I or who may seem to need to sit more than I. It has nothing to do with equality and everything to do with good manners.
Came here to mention the whole gender equality thing and you nailed it.
I personally wouldn’t mind giving up my seat for my own girlfriend, relatives or friends, but not to strangers unless they’re old.
So ladies better quit complaining.
The ladies aren’t the ones complaining. In today’s Web parlance, it’s teh wimmenz.
Actually, it’s mostly Bob that’s here complaining. Enjoy.
You picked an appropriate screen name…as a lady, i think your attitude makes you a “zero”. Thank God the men in my life do not share your ignorance.
What favors have men given women other than a big belly for nine months. And that’s because SHE chose you. She doesn’t have to be with any man if she so chooses. Women are more than capable of doing such simple tasks. We just ask for respect which is very rare today. I speak for most women when I say, any man not willing to respect a women doesn’t deserve a woman at all. Let’s see how long you last.
While every woman wanted and continues to want to be treated with equal dignity, not every woman wanted what has become to be understood as “equal rights”. While some men today will refuse to continue the code of chivalry and to pass it on to other, not every man wants to be consider chivalrous. But no one is compelled to date a person who doesn’t qualify as their idea of a “lady” or a “gentleman”; therefore, Zero, you get what you aim for.
Don’t worry, I know lots of ladies who don’t particularly want most of these things – or who happily return the ones they /do/ want.
I would be uncomfortable if any man, including my husband, pulled out my chair for me, or insisted on always walking next to the street, or made me wait in the car so he could open the door.
On the other hand, I think it’s wonderful to hold doors for people, to compliment them, or to give up your seat for someone who clearly needs to sit. My father drops my mother off at the door – and she does the same, if she’s driving.
If it’s considerate and a sign of a loving relationship, it easily can (and should) go both ways. If it feels weird going both ways, maybe we should consider why that is (hint: it usually has something to do with awkward and hopefully outdated power dynamics).
Completely agree.
I can understand why your screen name is Zero:) Just saying…..
You are an idiot 🙂
And women can raise their own children, right? Forget the fact, that this produces a cycle of issues with the next generation. (and by the way…I have been a single mom of 2 children for the past 8 years with a father/ ex husband that decided we could do it on our own so I kinda know what I’m talking about.) I’ll admit, the Women’s Lib thing has gone too far but …. We have evolved past performing these acts for women because “they can’t do it themselves.” It’s just about respect…not “doing us favors”.
why? because equality means you still make more money than us for the same jobs and there still hasn’t been a female president. so maybe scale down your chivalry to the appropriate amount of our so called equality. OH and mostly because and we’re all still ppl living on the same planet. I bet men and women you’re a selfish and rude.
Loved the article, not so sure about some of the comments however. I was raised to respect all genders and if someone needs assistance, to provide it. In return I do appreciate when someone does the same for me. I give as well as like to get. I take my daughter the same and now see my grandchildren going forward as well. That said I personally would like to find a man that would go out of his way to make me feel like a woman. Sometimes such small tokens of appreciation can make someone feel extra special. When you feel good don’t you tend to give what you receive to others a lot more? I love feeling and being treated like a lady. Unfortunately there are no men out there that want what I have to give.
I feel the same way. I have no children, but if someone is willing to go the distance I would do the same for him. You have worded it perfectly. What would it take to find a man who would make you feel like a lady or woman all the time or for the whole? If he did these things, then he would in essence be the man and I would think I could do what he needed to feel like a man for his part because of my gratitude. I feel that either the men I have come across are inappropriate, already taken, or not suitable mates so it has seemed very depressing. I wonder if he exists too.
“I feel the same way. I have no children, but if someone is willing to go the distance I would do the same for him. You have worded it perfectly. What would it take to find a man who would make you feel like a lady or woman all the time or for the whole?”
There are many men that would do such things for you, as evidenced by the posts of men other than me here. What would you be willing to do for them? But that’s really not your issue. You should preface your statements with the clause, “Men that I find attractive…”. If you do that, you may find the solution that works for you.
You guys are looser’s, wouldn’t date any of you! These things are kind and so appreciated.
I do all of these things on a daily basis when I can. I was raised that you respect women and your elders. This stuff to me just seems like common sense but, even that seems to be a rare commodity these days. One thing that should be on too is “excuse me”, two words that can change outcome of incidental contact between strangers.
“Bring it back?” If your a well rounded man, and your parents raised you in the proper manner, Its how you live already. No need to bring anything “back” Turn off your tech device, look around, and get your fat butt outta that seat for a woman standing….
The author forgot assisting with her coat, but other than that, spot on!
Reblogged this on amandavisina.
I think the problem stems from women love to feel like a queen but the vast majority of women have lost the skills to make a man feel like a king. we do these things to be polite and provide comfort to the women we care about and because as a southern man my dead mom may still jump out of a closet and whip my ass if I don’t 🙂
It’s just a different time. Men expect the women to give it up on the first date and women give it to them so there is no respect. I think that if men are chivalrous the woman in return should be a good wife and make her husband feel like a king but I do believe there are things men should do, like this list. Men need to be gentlemen and women need to be ladies.
Unfortunately Michelle, in today’s slut-infested society, ladies are a rare breed. Too many men have learned the hard way that displaying gentlemanly behavior to women results in condemnation to the friendzone. Too many women have rewarded ungentlemanly and repellant behavior with their favors, sexual and otherwise. This is why, as you state in your post, “Men expect the women to give it up on the first date and women give it to them so there is no respect.”
So what you’re saying, Bob, is that it’s easy for women to control men and turn men into completely different people? First, you’d think more women would utilize that to produce the man of their dreams. Second, that definitely doesn’t qualify men for any positions of leadership or superiority anywhere in our society.
Please start looking at people as individuals.
Well said, Bill.
“I think the problem stems from women love to feel like a queen but the vast majority of women have lost the skills to make a man feel like a king. ”
Bingo. What is the corollary for men? Men are expected to do these things for women, why, exactly? What do men get in return?
LJBF.
What if you’ve been doing all these things for years and your lady doesn’t appreciate it? Is it time to stop? I think so…
Amen. The fun part is when you do these things and then still get rejected for a 2nd date! These things never left, girls just don’t care about them anymore.
No girls do care. Maybe you should date different women. Don’t look for a reason not to do these things.
Don’t be stupid. You’re saying that if a woman doesn’t want a second date then it’s pointless to serve her? Why do you think that if you’re chivalrous she owes you a second date? That’s a selfish mentality, and it’ll get you nowhere with women. It’s pretty obvious when someone actually wants to be chivalrous because it’s the right thing to do, and when they’re feeling put out by it. Contrary to what you think, girls do like chivalry, they should be willing to serve you too, just in different ways. But what in the world makes you think that you deserve a second date just because you’re doing those things? Chivalry is about treating a girl like a woman, making her feel like a lady, it’s an expression of care. It’s not about getting points. There is a lot more involved in a date than that, if she doesn’t want a second it might be because she feels that you two just aren’t a good match. She might turn you down afterwards because something isn’t right, but one thing is for sure, she’s not turning you down for being chivalrous.
Mindy:
You can’t really pull the “You’re being so selfish!” card, while in the same breath asking that all men treat you like a princess for no reason whatsoever.
bwbucs99:
Just go to a dating site, Thanks to the whole “women’s sexual liberation” thing, you can easily find dozens of people near you who are DTF, without wasting copious amounts of your time and money.
bwbucs99, the solution is of course, to not display such behavior. Give teh wimmenz what they want. If they want Harley McBadboy or Studly McRockbanddrummer, give it to them.
Ugh. Can we stop acting like basic adult manners are “serving women.” Not being a feral ape has nothing to do with your partner or what they do. You were either raised right, with the manners to behave as a civilized adult to other adults, or you weren’t. Stop looking for excuses and just be polite. And that works equally well for both men and women.
Gary,
I would dare say that if you are not married to such a lady – it may be an indicator that the time to consider moving on is at hand.
If you are married and committed to her, then I would charge you with this: DO NOT lower your standard of character just because of lack of appreciation. That would be an expression of true love and concern on your part: to act properly, with no return for yourself. Even if she does not appreciate it, those around you will gain an even higher level of respect for you (and the ones that don’t……..well, I suspect that they are probably coffee chums with ZERO further up the posts here).
Gary, you can either tolerate it or next her.
If chivalry is so effective, what’s the need to pressure others into it? If it really gives you an advantage at dating, everyone would be as chivalrous as possible. It’s precisely because it doesn’t really do anything that men have forgot about it.
I expect, every time, for a man to do these things. And if any man pulls the, “well you wanted equality,” mess then he isn’t a real man. I’m not a feminist at all so maybe that’s why I think this: There are just some things men should do. There are certain things women do but men should always always always be chivalrous. I’m a lady and I expect to be treated like one.
Michelle. Sandwiches. Now.
You…are my hero.. 🙂
+1
I can’t stop laughing!!! +1.
What are the things women should do?