8 Acts Of Chivalry To Bring Back
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The more women I talk to, the more I realize that the gentleman is a rare breed. The mission of the New Chivalry Movement is to bring men (and women) together who strive to be the best versions of themselves and love and respect those around them.
As the gentleman has become less prominent, so have the respectful acts that define him.
Here are 8 acts of chivalry we often overlook and should work to bring back.
Giving up your seat.
Whether on a bus or on a crowded subway, giving up your seat to another is a rare but great sign of respect. I always cringe a bit when I see a woman, elderly person, or anyone else worthy of respect – forced to stand while young men remain distracted by their phones. It all comes down to being aware of your surroundings and acting accordingly.
Only one in seven men will offer their seat to a woman on a train or bus.
Pulling out a woman’s chair.
This one, as many others, is simple but rare. You don’t have to run around to your date’s side of the table to make sure you pull out her chair each time, but when convenient, it’s a nice extra touch.
Less than one in five men will regularly pull out a chair for a woman to sit down. That’s under 20%.
Open doors for her.
I have countless articles with this point already in them, but it’s one of the staples of chivalrous respect and probably the easiest to perform, as we all walk through doors every day. I don’t want to make any assumptions, but something tells me the extra few seconds it takes to open a door or let someone walk through first won’t ruin your day.
The same goes for car doors, a woman will appreciate you getting out of the car to open the door for her, or walking around to her side first, when you’re picking her up. It’s amazing to me how many men don’t do this.
Call, don’t text a date invite.
Just the fact that you would take the time to actually call a woman to ask her out on a date will put you lightyears ahead of your competition (of which there is a lot). Plus, you’ll be able to tell how excited or enthusiastic she is (or isn’t) about accepting your offer by actually hearing her voice.
Compliments, compliments, compliments.
I don’t know how many times I’ve heard that it’s a rare occasion for a woman to be complimented in her relationship?
What? Why?
Every guy in a relationship should take the time every day to let his woman know how beautiful he thinks she is.
Walking on the street side of the sidewalk.
The purpose of this lost art is to show your willingness to be splashed instead of a woman should a passing car run through a puddle. Furthermore, in some countries people would throw trash out of windows, and the person walking closer to the building, was less likely to be hit.
It’s an effortless way to show her that you care.
Walking her to her door.
At the end of your date, especially early on in the relationship, walk her safely to her door. This is especially important if she lives in a city. It shows you’re willing to put effort into protecting her and makes her feel safe – two important aspects of building her trust and comfort.
Parking far away? Drop her off first.
If you’re having a hard time finding a parking space close to her destination, offer to drop her off at the door while you go and look for a spot. She may be fine with walking the distance, but it’s a nice gesture to save her the effort, especially if she’s wearing heels.
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As gentlemen in modern times, you automatically stand out from the crowd. These points above are easy and free, but one would be surprised how rarely they actually occur. For those of us who naturally make it part of our daily lives, it’s difficult to picture how someone else couldn’t. But – it happens.
The new era of chivalry is not rooted in the chauvinistic mindset of the past. We have evolved past performing these acts for women because “they can’t do it themselves.”
The new gentleman performs these acts for the right reasons – love, caring, and respect.
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And as a woman, I need to learn to expect and then graciously accept it when a man does these things for me. Nice list – thanks.
Men should do this and this and this, but if a man every even implies that a woman should be expected to do something he is called a sexist pig.
More double standards in this bullshit world.
I understand being decent and considerate, but I don’t understand why it makes any sense for a man to give his seat to a woman who is just as capable of standing.
Women are often expected to wear heels and generally less comfortable clothing. Sometimes it’s a choice and sometimes it isn’t. That’s the bullshit double standard that we have to deal with.
There are also biological reasons women especially appreciate a seat such as pregnancy or menstrual cramps. Medicine can only do so much. You probably won’t be able to tell that she’s dealing with pain and nausea because she’ll be putting a smiling face on it. If you’re so comfortable, keep you seat jerk.
All how you are brought up I guess. If you have no problem with an elderly woman, or man for that matter standing up on while you sit, there is no sense in saying any more. You just don’t get it.
I think it’s best that you don’t reproduce, especially since your name is Dick Fungus. That must be unfortunate.
Even though I do all these stupid things for girls, and for really anyone I open the door or give up a seat. I believe this is common courtesy. What I will say is, what do girls do for guys? I put the seat down in the bathroom, for her obviously. I open the car door for her. I walk her to her door. I walk her to her car if she leaves my place. What exactly do girls do for guys? Don’t tell me they wear heels for us. Haha. Wow. Thanks I guess. So kind of you to do that just for me! When really thats for you more than us. Seriously. What do girls do for guys. I get upset with this because I actually do everything this list says, plus things it doesn’t say. I even make sure she orders first at the restaurant. If she asks me to order for her, I do. I DRIVE TO PICK HER UP FOR ALL DATES! It can just be very one sided. So yeah, maybe Dick Fungus is an ass, but he does make a point. It can be one sided and woman tend to freak out over the notion that a guy would even think such thoughts.
I Agree
Mr. Fungus, although your name is a tad bit off- putting (to say the least) I feel your pain! There is no law that says you MUST show deference to other people, but if you desire to appear strong and intelligent as well as considerate and kind, then you may want to willingly offer your seat to someone that may or may not be as capable as you. If you do not care what others think of you, by all means, stay seated while the elderly person or woman stands. The type of person you are is your choice. I do not think you are a sexist pig, I think you are probably just young and have been jaded by other people’s treatment of you. (Now see…I am being chivalrous to you!)
Chivalrous: 1.(of a man or his behavior) courteous and gallant, esp. toward women.
synonyms: gallant, gentlemanly, honorable, respectful, considerate; More
courteous, polite, gracious, well-mannered, mannerly;
Well said. Probably will get horrible responses but very well said. I’d love to see the writer’s response and those who have responded to this post about the dying breed of gentleman regarding a similar list for women.
Well that’s the thing about chivalry. It’s meant to be one-sided. You don’t really have to agree with it. But even as a female, most of these things are just common manners that I would do for anyone, regardless of gender. And also, I see a lot of people asking what women do for men in return, but I’m not really seeing anyone suggest anything in particular. But maybe that’s just because, like me, they couldn’t think of anything that wasn’t sexist.
Because it’s a nice thing to do…
Men also have more testosterone than women…well, in most cases you big fucking pussy.
I think its really less about men needing to do it for women, and more about humans should at least consider doing it for other humans. Too much selfishness in the world.
I’m guessing you’re single, and with good reason. If you would not be willing to give up your seat for a woman, then yes!! You are a classless pig!! JS
Mr. Fungus, it is indeed so sad that you were not properly raised to respect the ladies who are the weaker sex.. If you try to be a gentleman–you will soon find yourself being so respectful of yourself & enjoy the way you are treated by the ladies whom you open doors for– give up your seat—walk to the door– pull out her chair for her too. Everyone around you will also notice & give you respectful glances.. It sounds as if you are so bitter toward the ladies which exudes your lack of good breeding…I do hope you never meet my remaining single daughter.. However it is not too late to take courses in Good Manners. It would enhance your career & allow you to enjoy a happier life.. tsk tsk tsk
I find this article attempting to keep the double standards that fight against equal rights for women. As a man, I do everything in my power to break the patriarchy, but it’s these double standards that keep us from making great progress. I mean, look at Dawn’s reply to Dick Fungus
“willingly offer your seat to someone that may or may not be as capable as you.”
Just the fact that being a woman should already spark the idea that she is not as capable as a man may be. Women should be aware, if you want to be treated as a strong individual, it means trying to break these stereotypes rather then enforce old ones. This isn’t to say that those physically less capable pretend that they are in lesser need. Pregnant woman and Elderly women, as well as physically disabled women deserve the seats, but not more than physically disabled men and elderly men. Being a strong woman means that sometimes you have to stand, just as sometimes you must sit, equal to men.
And also, I’m not sure to whomever made the “women must sometimes wear heels” argument, I really understand your struggle, but shouldn’t we work on breaking the gender expectations rather than trying to create more double standards to “make up” for the inequalities now?
As for the men and women that post here, I respect your opinions, but please see that Both men and women should do good for eachother, regardless of gender? Open the door for a man, open the door for a woman. Don’t worry about what’s in their underwear, just treat the people you love with the same respect that you think you deserve.
Your handle says it all! What an embarrassment to your Mother! I would like to think she raised you better but the fungus on the head you think with killed your brains cells!
Liz Ann, I’ve heard for the last three decades that women are equal and other such feminist claptrap. You want to be equal? So be equal. Stand without complaint, just like the equal-to-a-man that you are.
It makes me sad that you have such a negative view of such chivalrous acts. When I go out with my boyfriend, I really appreciate the small things, as I believe all people who have nice things done for them should. Holding the door, letting me walk through first, etc. Personally, I had a history with abusive relationships, and the smallest acts of chivalry go a long way in convincing me that I will be respected and taken care of. Just my two cents 🙂
Yes, I have a problem with Chivalry, but I believe that many of you out there do not understand us. While I have a problem with Chivalry, I have absolutely no problem with kindness to women. I truly love and respect my girlfriend, and that respect goes to almost every woman I meet. I do nice things for both her, and the women around her. The difference is, I extend that kindness to the the men I meet as well. There is no equality to be found in chivalry. Sure, when you have half of the population offering you seats and opening your doors and paying for you, it sounds nice, but it really keeps the gender barrier strong.
Ladies, please imagine a world where you are expected to wait on men; hand and foot. When you see a man standing, you are to offer your seat and stand yourself. You are expected to hold the door open for him. You are to pull his chair out for him.
This is not the kind of world you want to live in, right? To tell the truth, this is not the world I want to live in at all, and the thought of such a world frightens me. Perhaps it’s just my own idealism, but I Imagine a world where men and women alike perform these deeds for each other. Woman holds the door open for her husband; The woman pulls his chair for him. The idea of Chivalry and that this is only to be expected by women really hurts this idea, and such it hurts me. I consider myself a feminist, however please know that feminism stands for all equal rights, women’s, men’s, all races. I hope that you all respect my opinion at least if you do not fully agree with it, although I’m sure everybody can see that there is some truth to what I say.
Well said Liz Ann!!!!
And that is why you call it a bullshit world! Because people dont have respect,morals,values,pride,etc.Its not about being male or female. Its just common courtesy.
Although I understand what you mean, and agree that you *should* be able to expect such treatment – I was raised this way, being an older Texas fella with country roots – I’d like to remind you that to “expect” such treatment is a sure-fire recipe for disappointment; rather, if you “appreciate” and make note of such behavior, your tolerance will make life easier on you while still influencing those around you that aren’t too dense to be taught. My Grandma, my Great-Aunts, and a few others I knew when much younger were among the last generation of the Southern Ladies, and their quiet and tolerant demeanor never masked the power and strength of their characters. They had expectations certainly, but the shortcomings of others never affected nor diminished them in the slightest. Class, true class, is still not lost; it’s just so diluted in today’s self-centric society.
VERY well said!
No. That selfish. I know this sill article was old, but still can not belief this article was in 2014. If woman,s role in chivalry is demanding, so I have right to have different opinion and NOT want to practice it. At least chivalry concept make me thankful I am gay, so I do not worry about “girl prefer chivalrous man”, blahblahblah.
“Giving up your seat”. It’s a small thing, but goes such a long way! Wonderful post…thanks!
ughhh I LOVE this! Men who perform these acts of chivalry are so seldomly recognized it breaks my heart (no thank you from people as you hold the door open, from parents of the girl, etc). These are staples of a good and loving relationship! I love to see my man do all of these things on a daily basis.
Graciamaria,
Thank you so much for being honest enough to say that. This is the unfortunate, unspoken reason that chivalry is fading and will continue to die out. There is, as one person put it, an overwhelming sense of entitlement that makes some women almost rude about it.
I’v’e been several seconds in front of women going into a building and stood there holding the door while they walked through without even acknowledging I was there, much less saying thank you. Often those that do say something are so mean about it that you wish they would have just kept it. Many women today are so self-absorbed that they think every man is out to sleep with them.
So no, they don’t walk around with smiles on their faces I’m afraid. You say hello passing them on the sidewalk or hold a door open and more often than not you’ll be met with a mean expression if they look at you at all. There are certainly women out there who are kind and nice and genuinely appreciative of these acts of kindness. But they too are a dying breed, and that’s the conversation we never have because we’re too busy blaming the entire fall of chivalry on men, along with every other thing that is wrong with the whole male-female dynamic.
Gentlemen continue to be gentlemen in spite of the indifference and lack of appreciation because they were born and bred that way. But not everyone is wired that way and many men simply don’t bother anymore because of how they’re treated when they make the effort. And while I will always be a chivalrous man, I think if we want to see the gentleman and chivalry make a come-back we would do well to start having conversations about how to ACCEPT chivalry as a lady.
Hmm, good inspiration to write a blog post.. (pens into agenda). I’m on it! Will be writing a response. Check back with me at senoritagracia.wordpress.com. Don’t worry it will only die out if we let it!
I completely agree. I’ve seen this too, and I’m sorry some women behave this way… I don’t think its really a gender thing. I think we all just need to try being more humane toward one another… ?
Ron, a lady is worthy of chivalry. I agree with you as far as that goes. However, a woman (who is equal to a man) is unworthy of it and deserves no special consideration of any kind. That is the price of equality.
[…] have to behave like one if you want to be treated as such). Blogger James Michael Sama lists the 8 Acts of Chivalry to Bring Back. Here’s what we thought of his […]
I want to read this again and again… Chivalry is sexy:)
These kinds of articles really are aggravating and grate at me because they attempt to re-brand old chauvinistic traditions as something we should accept in the modern era, as something we should accept in light of society’s new emphasis on gender equality. As long as people don’t attempt chivalry for chauvinistic reasons and as long as we ignore he history, it so goes, the practice of chivalry is fine and recommended.
But why these particular acts? Because of history! Why don’t women do this for men instead of the other way around? Either because of history or because people want us live in a sexist society where differing expectations for men and women are continually repeatedly justified. Why why why chivalry today? Because women want it. Why? Because women are weaker. We cannot escape the specter that will naturally pop up in the back of our minds because of history that it is because women are weaker.
And you cannot expect men to be chivalrous and not expect something in return. We cannot expect to place expectations on a singled out group of people and not expect those people not to feel resentful or want something in return. And men will want something in return from women; if chivalry is expected of men, men will feel justified in wanting to put added constraints on women.
So I really dislike it when people cheer these articles on.
What a ball buster! Why is it such a horrible thing for a man to show kindness to a woman? Who cares about the history behind it, it’s just polite to show caring and compassion to others. Get over yourself Jean.
Why is the expectation only that men should show these acts of kindness to women, though? Why is the idea that a particular brand of kindness is expected of one sex but not the other? Should a woman not give up her seat to a man, or open the door for him if she’s in a convenient position to do so, or pull out his chair? If this is really about kindness, then it shouldn’t matter if it’s a man or a woman acting in such a way–it should be about a person being polite and caring and compassionate to another person.
The fact of the matter is we (men and women) are in fact different in intrinsic ways and attempting to conceal that in the name of equality is the wrong way to try to truly achieve equality. If you truly would date a man wearing a dress and high heels and make-up, since we’re really all identical, then carry on with this crusade. If not, then allow a man who recognizes that those womanly things make it less comfortable for her to stand on a bus, or pull out a man’s chair, or open a door, to be chivalrous and care for his woman. She can equally show affection and attention in womanly ways that make her no weaker or subservient to a man, than he is subservient to her when pulling her chair out as if her were her butler.
SP, your reply is all about WHAT NOT TO DO TO A WOMAN!! You are a product of thinking men and women are equal. The sexes are not the same, and thank god I live in Texas where men of all races & creeds hold open doors for all women, pull seats out, hold open car doors, and do all the above….women are the fairer sex. We always will be. That is why a real MAN treats a woman with a sign of respect. As a woman my obligation of decency is to those elderly folks, disabled folks, or children. I give up my seats to all of the above, if they include men. I help blind people get to an elevator. It is called being human. But society still has rules on how real men treat real women. The lie of feminism has made our world full of girly men who are weak and a bunch of pussies.
LeighLeigh – go tell that to all the ball-busting feminists who “need a man like a fish need a bicycle.”
Both history and science have shown that only women can give birth. The act of chivalry is to protect and pay respect to woman as they represent the continuation of our species.
Excellent!!!
So only women who can have kids deserve it? What if she is infertile? Should I ask about her fertility and plans for children before I give up my seat?
What about the other 7-9 decades of her life? Pregnancy is a (admittedly sometimes debilitating) 9-month condition. Healing after pregnancy/birth is usually another few months. So if she has 2-3 kids – an average middle class family, say – that’s 3-5 years of her life at most.
You’re saying she should be saddled with all of these expectations in order to get you to open her doors because for less than a decade of her life, she might be pregnant? How about you just get up for the sweating, tired, overweight, unattractive, frazzled, ticked-off pregnant women when you see them (instead of just the pretty women who catch your eye, as most men do), and not make such a ruckus over it now?
Who said I would get up for the pretty women either? They have legs with muscles. They can stand.
And I don’t know what expectations you are talking about.
I’ll give up my seat for somebody who seems like they need it, not because they were born with a vagina between their legs.
I might reconsider that if one time I got offered a seat after working my rear off all day, covered in dirt and grime with every body part aching, being sweaty, tired, frazzled, and ticked off. Amazingly enough no woman under the age of 60 has ever offered. Men have, of all ages have though.
“you cannot expect men to be chivalrous and not expect something in return”
wow, really? so all men expect something in return for being considerate? you have a very low opinion of men if what you wrote is really how you feel.
many of the acts this article is speaking about just come down to being a decent human being.
Why hold the door open… because it is being considerate. I hold the door open for anyone male or female whether I know them or not because it is considerate.
Why open the car door… by the way I usually open the car door for my passengers (regardless of gender) if I am driving…. again because it is being considerate.
Why give up your seat on the bus/train/subway….. do I really need to repeat myself…. I do not ride public transportation very often, however on the one occassion that I did, an older gentleman got on the bus and had no place to sit without having to manuver all the way to the back… so I gave up my seat, because it was the nice thing to do.
see a pattern here?
quick clarification, I have used public transportaion more than once, but there was only one occassion where someone was in need of a seat.
There are a lot of men here pointing out that its unfair for them to be chivalrous and not get something in return. (I think chivalry is just manners and not that onerous, but I don’t inherently disagree with them.) The issue is that what is expected of women in return for “chivalry” is often ridiculously burdensome by comparison. I enjoy getting dressed with an eye to what is comfortable, what I feel cute in for me (not a random strange guy), and what will fit the day’s itinerary. I’m not giving that up so I can have strange men open my doors. I enjoy getting a healthy four-five figure paycheck that I worked my self ragged in grad school to be able to earn – I’m proud of my knowledge and skill set – I’m proud of my job – I’m happy that I have financial security – I’m relaxed in my marriage because we don’t fight about money – I have my own set outside of our joint that I can do whatever I want with, be it charity or handbags or give to my family members, and the husband doesn’t care. I’m not giving that up so I can have a guy push my chair in.
Now if a guy wants to hold the door or push the chair? Go for it! Thanks! But unless all you’re looking for in return is that I get the next door for you, you’re going to be sorely disappointed. So feel free to just skip it all and fall back on the good manners that I assume your mom taught you to show EVERYONE. Those will work just fine.
What a complete moron. Your the type of woman who I’ll open a door for because I got to it first and you walk through without so much as a thank you. I open doors for everyone not just women. Why, because I was raised to respect people, if your a woman I do it not for recognition or expecting anything. I do it out of respect. Its people like you that are bringing this world into complete inconsideration for others. And punks running around thinking its ok to call women bitches. So I really dislike hearing idiots like you spout your gender equality and metro sexual ideals to the rest of us.
You should pay better attention. This was written by a man named James.
You should pay better attention he is speaking to Jean the poster above.
Annnd this is why chilvary is dead.Men were happy to be chilvarous in the old days and women appreciated it. But women like Jean just have to make a big deal out of every little thing to make sure someting is not “chauvinistic.”
Also, it’s funny how articles like these are becoming more and more common as women realize the BS feminism has presented the past few decades. A light bulb seems to have gone off saying “uh oh! Men are not paying attention to us and are actually treating us like equals! Yeaa…about the feminism thing.” LOL.
Please explain to me how the support and fight for the right to vote; the right to own property; the right to not be considered property; the right to actually have a peer on a jury of peers; the right to an education; the right to not be a child bride; the right to not be victim of female genital mutilation; the right to not be a victim of rape; the right to have equal media coverage; the right to have equal government representation; the right to have at least* equal representation during political discussions about issues that only affect women; the right to provide a political or intellectual opinion during an interview without having to first discuss wardrobe choices; the right to be successful without risking “sex appeal” overshadowing accomplishments; and the right to walk down the street without risking being cat called are all bullshit? (This is not an exhaustive list, but merely some main issues supported by feminism.)
@Alexandra. LOL
Right to vote, right to property? 1910s at the latest.
Right to not be a victim of FEMALE genital mutilation? It was pretty much banned the first afternoon everyone heard about it. How about genital mutilation in general? Oh right, keep chopping up guys penises and no one cares.
Rob Michael, women gained the right to open bank accounts without a male cosignor in the 1970s. They gained the right to keep their job if they conceived. They couldn’t get credit cards in their own names. They weren’t allowed to run marathons. Those all became possible in the 1970s.
http://msmagazine.com/blog/2013/05/28/10-things-that-american-women-could-not-do-before-the-1970s/
So your fine with male genital mutilation?
RM, I assume you refer to male circumcision? It’s not comparable to female genital mutilation in scope or the short- or long-term health ramifications at all. (http://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/2012/jul/29/the-big-issue-male-circumcision) However, I can see why some men oppose it and as it’s their body, I fully support their right to do so. I don’t have a strong opinion on it because (a) I’m not a guy, so I can’t speak from experience as to the pros and cons of the practice, and (b) I don’t feel it’s my place to tell some man what he can and can’t do with his own body. If my husband felt strongly about the matter (he doesn’t) and if we’d had a son (instead of our little girl), I’d have given him the deciding vote on the matter because I just don’t have the stake in it or the personal experience to make that decision for a guy.
And in case you were wondering, I expect men to extend me the same courtesy when it comes to issues involving the female body (particularly my own).
How sad and it shows how disrespectful women have actually changed a generation……. FOR THE BAD!! To give up your seat is respect, to open a door is respect, not history and if it is history why do we only pick the bits of history out that show our total lack of manners and respect. I grew up with these as part of my value system, I also put them into my children as a value system. My 30 year old daughter to this day will help an elderly person who has parcels across the road and carry them for them. To elucidate the histrionics in what is a value system then totally exposes the value system you yourself live by! I will add another one and I have stood and spoken with a loud voice to men standing at a baggage carousel that it is a sad day when a mature woman as myself has to help and elderly man/ woman off with her bags because their value system does not allow for it! If you think its about women being weaker you have actually exposed the very issue that is driving your behaviour. Sad, sad post that it is all about you give me something and I will then give you….. How the heck were you brought up? You need a slap from your mumma girl. My boys not brought up with history but a value that says that woman in front of you is priceless no matter who she is and you respect her or Mumma will know!!!
Right on ALW! And while im here the ones asking what we as women do for them.. we gave birth to you for one! Im the one that cleans the toilets in my house where you guys miss. I dump the ashtrays that you cant get another butt in.I mowed the yard because its my day off . I wash the cars inside and out. Anytime but especially thanksgiving i cook alot and invite single friends that have nowhere to go. I do all the clean up after and i dont mind because they all appreciated it! Just like when a man holds a door open for me,etc.And i always say thank you! Its all so simple. And yes we are different. Thats why we are called men or women. Im not a religous person but God created a man and a woman…Keep holding those doors open gentlemen!
Apparently Jean, no man has ever shown you honor and respect. It,s a christian virtue for men to love their wife as Christ loved us in that he laid down his life for us. For men to do these things is to honor the woman your with. Has nothing to do with wanting something in return because that will come naturally.
Respect to women is a Christian virtue? Really?
Timothy 2:12: “I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, she must be silent.”
Ephesians 5:22: “Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord”
robert, if Jean has never had a man show her honor and respect, most likely it’s because she’s the stereotypical shrieking harpie feminist that has contributed to the death of chivalry that has been lamented in this forum by so many.
Thanks for the excellent example of proof-texting, Matt.
Jean, you are the type of woman that irritates the hell out of me. Why is it so difficult to accept kindness and chivalry?? Women like you are the reason that chivalry is dying!!! Get over yourself and accept kind gestures. Women are not weak, nor are the chivalrous men who perform these acts. I have been told too many times that I am too nice. How can one be too nice?? Just saying……
To Matt H .I can do this all day long…Ephesians 5:31 A man shall be joined with his wife, and they two shall be one flesh! Peter 3:8 Be ye all of one mind, having compassion one at another, love as brethen, be pitiful, be courteous.
Chauvinism is alive and well here.
Sorry Jean but I must disagree a bit. First I always open the door for my wife as a form of caring for her. No, it doesn’t imply that she is unable to do so for herself, it simply is a way of me serving her. Second I never expect anything in return. This is no different than caring for a child. I gladly serve my children because of my love for them, not because I expect something in return. Once you figure out that truly loving the right person (don’t miss that qualifier) is all about serving and caring for them, the rest of the relationship just falls into place. I want to serve and protect her because I cherish the person that she is and truly love her.
Jean,
as a man, I do these things out of respect, caring, and love. I dont have to but I do. And I expected nothing in return. Infact, I often wander if it is even noticed at all. nevertheless i was raised to honor and cherish the women in my life, it is not about being noticed. And I should hope that when a man performs these acts for you, that you appreciate it. Because in that moment, that man is treating you with the love, respect, and admiration you deserve.
Yes in todays society, men and women are equals. But lets face the facts that in relationships, men and women have different roles to play. These roles are not a concrete one set fits all, but should be discussed in the relationship.
You are not all men. What women are telling you is that, as part of our life experience, when men offer something, the majority of men (husbands aside, perhaps – or perhaps not) generally expect something in return. You might be an exception, and that’s fantastic. We all know exceptions exist. But telling women – or a woman – that what she experienced is not, in fact, what she’s experienced because you know what she’s experienced … it’s disrespectful. And you’re incorrect. It’s the equivalent of me, a Caucasian, walking up to an African-American or a Middle Eastern person and telling them that their experiences of racism didn’t happen because I personally am not someone who would ever act that way.
I understand what Jean is trying to say. I believe that she does not mean that men want something from that particular female, but to all females as a whole. When you agree to keep the gender roles, it becomes difficult to fight against inequalities. Sure, holding a door open for a woman shows respect. So does that mean that women that do no hold doors open for men do not respect men? What’s wrong with a woman doing these things for a man?
it may be true that women and men are different, But I promise you all one thing. RESPECT is gender neutral. I show respect and kindness by doing these things for women, but I don’t expect a woman who I respect to serve me. I want the door held open for me. Or if I’m tired, maybe she could stand. It depends on the situation, not whether your genetals are an innie or an outie. I treat my girlfriend the way I want to be treated and I am treated the same. I show my respect for her by now showing her chivalry, but kindness. Gender-neutral kindness. Sure I expect kindness in return, but that’s about it.
Dear Jean, You do not seem to understand. Men and women are *not* equal. You could drink a mint julep from a mason jar or a crystal goblet. Mason and Crystal are made with differences in design and strength of character, but both are perfectly capable of carrying drinks. So you are offended because you think women are weaker? I do not know the exact tolerances for average jars and goblets, but I know that pure Crystal is way more valuable, more easily broken, and prettier. Mason requires less maintenance, is way more durable, and rather sturdy. But, you may insist that you want it all! Ok, go for it: http://hillbillyglassware.com/.
Chivalrous is *not* the same as chauvinistic. Perhaps defining terms would help?
I found what appears to be your definition of chivalry on urbandictionary.com: Something women complain is dead even though it cannot logically exist in an equal society, which is something women wanted. It’s one or the other.
A better definition is found at merriam-webster.com: The system of values (such as loyalty and honor) that knights in the Middle Ages were expected to follow. An honorable and polite way of behaving especially toward women.
I *can* kill my own snakes, but if my husband is around, I prefer to let him. He *likes* killing snakes, especially when he can protect me from the loathsome creatures! Perhaps the most difficult thing about chivalry is that some women have a real problem being ladies?
Mason jars and crystal are not men and women. A more apt comparison might be the CEO and the janitor of a company. Both are equally vital to the smooth functioning of the business. They’re equal in importance, perhaps. But they are not treated equally.
In your scenario, as the woman, you’re the janitor. You’re paid about 1/100th as much. You work overnight hours. You are made fun of by the school kids when they come through on field trips. When a worker goes crazy and smears excrement all over the walls, you get called in to clean it up. No one really bothers to learn your name. You work in silence, go home, and worry about the bills. Your kids will have to pay their own way through college. The CEO vacations on his own island nears Turks and Caicos. His kids go to ivy league schools. You’re both equally vital to the running of the company, but no one would actually say you were the same or equal.
But by golly, he holds the door for you when he happens to see you coming. He invited you to the company Christmas party and pulled out the chair for you. He doesn’t do that for the other CEOs.
I let me husband kill snakes too. Or our dogs for the garter snakes. That doesn’t mean the dogs are heads of household, and my husband does it out of love, not in exchange for me serving as his unpaid support staff.
@ Jamie
Why were you making fun of the janitor as a school kid on field trips? That is a mean thing to do. I have known many people who work as custodians and I too was once a school kid, and I guess it was maybe because I had a single mom who worked 2 jobs to support 2 children, that I never made fun of the janitor who was working his butt off to put food on the table for his family.
And why does the woman in your scenario have to be the janitor? There are many female CEOs…of a lot of the world’s largest companies. There are women CEOs now at GM, HP, PepsiCo, IBM, Xerox, Lockheed Martin, Sempra Energy, Yahoo, DuPont…just to name a few. Please do not try to create a scenario that is so lopsided salary-wise that you try to mirror that same lopsidedness with men and women. Heck, even Condoleezza Rice and Darla Moore are now members at the previously men only Augusta National Golf Club. Of course men and women are not treated equally by all and there is still a long way to go before men and women are actually treated equally in all facets of life, but if we keep hyperbolizing the situation to show that men and women are treated as differently as the CEOs and janitors, we all are going nowhere in this society.
I did not have parents who were CEOs OR janitors…and I still had to pay my way through college and grad school like most people.
I also like that you know the island of Turks & Caicos. Apparently you either have been there because you are a CEO of a company (because only CEOs can afford to go to Turks & Caicos) or you have been there because it is not that exclusive and even a janitor could afford to visit there if she or he saved up for the trip like the rest of us.
And why are you attacking Elizabeth Colville Holt above? She never suggested that your husband is chivalrous towards you by killing snakes … in exchange for you serving as his unpaid support staff.
The fact is that some guys are still chivalrous and some guys are not. But there are also quite a few women that are actually rude when you are chivalrous towards them. I have actually had a woman tell me “I can get my own door thank you”…and I was holding the door for the person that happened to be directly behind me as I was walking through a doorway.
@ Sean Scott.
Reading comprehension, my friend. I did not say I made fun of the janitor. I did have never made fun of a janitor. I have heard stories of these things from janitors whom I’ve befriended, as well as from coworkers, friends, neighbors, etc. However, I always talk to the janitor and staff because their work is valuable. It never hurts to learn someone’s name. (Or read a post more carefully ;).
You seem very literal. However, the CEO-janitor scenario was an analogy. Both are equally vital to having a professional, smoothly running company (just as complementarians believe both men and women are equally vital to having a smoothly running marriage). However, one is given a leadership role and one is left to clean up after others, so despite the equal important of their presence, their actual treatment and valuation remains very unequal (similar to the way that “equality” plays out in a complementarian or overly “chivalrous” scenario).
I’m sure you could create a scenario in which the women works as the CEO (the leader, the recognition, the spokesperson) and the man works as the janitor (house-cleaning, wrangling kids all day, no income, no recognition, etc.). But it remains the exception. And most men are not quick to suggest that reversal of roles as a solution to their wives’ exhaustion or discontent with the monotonic tasks of staying home all day with kids … or the incredible stress of balancing home demands with all of the dualities and double standards that she faces at work.
All I can say, after reading your response, is that reading comprehension is obviously not a gender-specific skill. I hope you get your T&C vacation someday. And that the occasional rudeness toward you from a woman will not actually do much (just as the frequent rudeness, arrogance, self-interest, and inappropriately sexual remarks made to most women by men – including those in this thread – don’t kill them).
Not old chauvinistic traditions…just good manners. The heck with gender equality if women cannot be treated respectively on a daily basis and put at a higher level of consideration. Gender equality means equal pay for equal work, ability to get any job, earn any degree, and hold any position of power. These acts described in this list takes gender equality beyond…to treat women respectively and thoughtfully. If a guy opens a door for you or gives up his seat for you…YOU can decline if it insults YOU. Myself, these “chauvinistic traditions” make confident women feel special and makes the man looks like a really nice guy.
Hear hear!!! I really don’t understand why guys complain. I mean, if no guys do it because chivalry is dead, then hold the door, impress the girl, and enjoy! If she doesn’t want you holding the door, then don’t. No skin off your back either way.
Unless, of course, you were expecting to get something out of it ….
LOL – wow. So much to work with here.
“women cannot be treated respectively on a daily basis and put at a higher level of consideration.”
Exactly why should women be “put at a higher level of consideration”?
“makes the man looks like a really nice guy.”
When’s the last time you wanted to madly fuck a “really nice guy”?
It isn’t just history. It has to do with the natural urge that men have – or used to have, until feminists tried to beat it out of them – to protect and care for their women. This has nothing to do with who is stronger – in some ways women are, and in other ways men are. But too many women are unwilling to admit that, so they find it offensive that a man would go out of his way to care for her.
Are women really exempt from the desire to protect and care for their loved ones?
And if all men have this burning need to protect and care for women in general, rape and assault and catcalling and street harassment would be nonentities, right?
I somewhat agree. I do feel that many need to remember common courtesy, especially as it seems lacking in the younger generations, but I am just as likely to hold the door open for someone else, compliment others, and especially give up my seat for someone who needs it more. I think if we want to look at equality it should start with women doing the things we want to see our men do. its only fair.
I must say that I don’t feel demeaned when a man is kind enough to give up his seat for me, and he does have a right to expect something in return, my “thank you”! As a woman, if I see an elderly person standing you can bet I’m going to offer my seat. It really doesn’t have as much to do with chivalry as with manners. I was taught to respect others, and especially those older than I. But respect for others is something that is sorely lacking in today’s world. Last but not least you must concede that, on average, women are physically weaker than men. It does not mean women are lesser beings, it just means we have different physical capabilities. Men can’t conceive, gestate & carry a baby – it doesn’t make them weaker, just different.
Last but not least, from a Christian perspective……go study, and I mean REALLY study, what the Bible has to say in regards to women. Jesus Christ honored women – in an era when women were considered property. Moreover, husbands are commanded to love their wife as Christ loved the church ie: to die for her if necessary. Christ did not coming as a reigning king but as a humble servant – and so are men called to be for their wives. Furthermore wives are called “equal heirs to the kingdom of heaven” with men. Women are commanded to respect their husbands – don’t know about you but I have no problem respecting a man who gives up his life, whatever form that may take, for me.
There are those who will always find a reason to feel put upon. There will always be those who try to demean others, who try to use their position to intimidate or otherwise coerce someone they consider in a lower position. Some of those will be men – some of those will be women, it is not gender specific. As I said previously, it comes down to respect – for others and for yourself!
I strongly recommend “Jesus Through Middle Eastern Eyes” by Kenneth Bailey. Great breakdown of the culture in which Jesus lived, it’s views and treatment of women, and the shockingly revolutionary way in which Jesus both lived alongside women, but incorporated women and their lives/concerns equally into his parables and teaching (which was absolutely not done at that time – much like many complementarian churches today).
Very well put T Paulsen, I couldn’t agree more with you.
I’m right there with you.
1. Men who want to be chivalrous? Be chivalrous. Or, as we call it today, have good manners. Women can do it. Men can do it. You don’t need our permission. Or, as men are so fond of referencing, the permission of the one woman one time who snapped at them when they held the door for her. Did she snap? Poor guy. Listen, so walking to the mailbox means I get honked horns and catcalls (in sweats and a sweatshirt if you were wondering). Wearing heels at work means I get comments from the guys there who think my appearance is their business. If I can handle that, you can handle a snappy chick without throwing all the manners momma taught you out the window.
2. The reason you see these types of articles – rather than men just thinking, “I’d like to be more chivalrous” and then popping up to offer their seat to the pregnant woman – is because there IS a trade-off and guys want to make sure women are holding up their end of the bargain. The wish that men could be more chivalrous tends to travel in tandem with the wish that women “would be more ladylike.” What does that mean? It doesn’t mean pointing out the different standards for women and men at work (especially for parents). It doesn’t mean insisting your husband help with the housework and laundry so that you can keep the career that you spent 8 years in post-grad and hundreds of thousands of dollars to earn. No, it means fading gently and calmly into a support-staff position without discussion, without considering whether it’s good for you as an individual, because he’s a “man” and you’re a “woman” and the roles have been set for you.
3. If I do have to choose between a man holding the door and all the “feministy” things – like voting, financial security, etc. – guess which one is the wisest choice. A note: there were three or four regular waitresses at the restaurant my family frequented when I was a teen. They were all women in their 50s or older. They often worked double shifts. They all had the same story: They’d married and stayed home and had a couple of kids and raised them and were housewives. They took pride in their homes, poured their hearts into their kids, and made their husband’s career success their own mission. Then their husbands either had midlife crises or affairs (all were religious couples, church going, etc.). Got divorced. The kids were older and courts only award limited alimony in many cases. So they were working without a retirement day in sight. It happens. Men aren’t retirement plans and they aren’t insurance plans and their career isn’t your own. Spending your golden years waiting tables is a sorry trade for opened doors and pulled out chairs – and any man who asks you to make that is not acting out of love.
I agree that that is a horrible way for women to live, but instead of enforcing that system, we can change it! I fight for women to live equal strong lives in which they don’t have to fade into their husband’s shadow. The very thought makes me feel sick. Fight the culture and society that enforces this kind of thinking!
@ Daniel – unrelated to this post, but I have found your posts here to be refreshing and encouraging. The world would be a better place if more men thought like you!
So LeighLeigh, you are thankful that you “…live in Texas where men of all races & creeds hold open doors for all women, pull seats out, hold open car doors, and do all the above….women are the fairer sex.” I believe that you are thankful that you live in Texas. Of course, what you don’t say is that you are thankful that your extreme sense of entitlement is fully indulged by the men of the Lone Star State.
You claim, “…a real MAN treats a woman with a sign of respect.” Are you a real man? If not, then you don’t know what you’re talking about. A man will show respect to a lady. But since women are now the equal of men, women deserve no special consideration of any kind. Women wanted equality. Well, women should be careful what they wish for, because they just might get it.
Equality would also mean men treating women with the respect that they usually show toward other men. Presumably you don’t check out other men’s body parts and address them in a paternalistic manner. You don’t suggest that they “show me a smile!” or, during conversations of import, say, “I really should be talking to your spouse about this.” When your male coworkers insist on a path forward with which you disagree, you don’t label them a b1tch. You don’t judge them for interrupting, for insisting on a raise because they “deserve” a raise. You don’t assume that, because they’re parents, they’ll be less dedicated to the job, despite their doing everything possible to show you otherwise. When they come back from their wedding, you don’t ask them over and over if they plan to have kids. You don’t suggest to Mike that he wear contacts because you don’t like the way he looks in glasses, or to Bill that he wear the first two buttons undone instead of just one “because it looks more professional” while you stare at his chest. You don’t insist that your male coworker do a manager’s job tasks without promoting him to manager, and then bring in a woman, breathe a sigh of relief, and instantly make her manager – “she’s really going to whip this into shape” – even though she has less experience, lower reviews, and is less qualified. You don’t slow your car down to stare at a male jogger as he runs on the sidewalk by himself. If you start a conversation with a guy and he doesn’t respond, you don’t get rude and snappy at his non-response and then call him a “b1tch” so everyone can here.
Get rid of all those little inequalities that us women deal with daily – treat us as equals with no “special considerations” – and we’ll open our own doors. Thanks.
Jamie, it appears that your rationalization hamster has achieved warp speed. That’s one major colon blow that you expelled.
Equality means that women have to deal with the world the way it is, as men do. Equality means that women have to deal with life the way it is, as men do. No whingeing, no complaining, no moaning and no groaning. Equality means realizing that everything you’re complaining about in your response is nothing more than a First World problem and your complaints are actually condescending and insulting to those in society who are suffering for real.
@ Bob, speaking of colon blows, I did read your post and recommend a class in logic and a quick study of gender equality in both first world cultures and in third world cultures. For the third-world, you can start with research on Afghanistan’s new law which will restrict women’s ability to prosecute the crimes committed against them by family members (over 90% of the crimes against women there fall into this category). My time is valuable and I don’t waste it debating with those who aren’t interested enough in this topic to educate themselves, but I would be open to debate once you’ve had the chance to read a few articles that fall outside of your current worldview on women.
Actually, as a guy who does all of these, it brings me great joy just to be able to show kindness to others. I have never expected anything in return other than a smiling face and even when I don’t get that I’m still happy knowing I am serving others selflessly. It’s not all about me, me, me. It’s about putting others before myself that truly brings happiness to my heart.
Maybe if women would take a little pride in the way they dress and talk they could easily get these nice compliments from their men. Why should I be so respectful to a women when she dresses like a slut or uses the F word with every other breath? What is good for one is good for the other.
True, but men are called to lead by example!
Why should I be respectful of men who sag their pants or wear tight khakis or shirts that stretch open across their bellies?
The same reason that I should be respectful of land whales with an equally oversized sense of entitlement.
Given that you lead by calling them land whales, your post remains a massive fail.
Jamie just because you desperately try to get the last word of witticism doesn’t make you right and shouldn’t give you the speculation that the men are shrinking to the shadows to hide from your light of perceived self aggrandizing truths. Your post was more offensive than his for the simple reason that you started it with an insult yourself. Grow up. And also btw those gender equality studies etc that you’ve spouted are RIFE with outright lies, and misinformation. Feminist university gender discussions target girls and brainwash them into a false sense of victimhood and you’ve clearly been had. Statistics like “one in four women are sexually assaulted” or the wage gap are outright lies. Women have all the rights that men do and then some, to the point that the ‘equality’ has gone too far the other way. Also try working a goddamn coal mining job, or skyscraper, or steel working job or fight on the front lines (oh yes i know there are women in the military now–but the ratio of men who have died fighting for women –yes like you–and for their country throughout history is around 10,000 to 1. THATS oppression silly. On that note, a lot of women bemoan about having the right to vote as if it was a symptom of oppression but the fact was that voting was a right only allowed for men because men were conscripts who were born to fight and to die and it was a necessary military choice. Think about it, why would anyone with no experience in the affairs of defending and dying for a country be asked to make uninformed choices on who to elect to run it in a military state. It makes no sense. But no, as usual women turned the lack of voting into another example of your victimization rather than realize that men had earned that honor by being conscripted. But somehow we must make everything about you. So before you go off spouting about managerial positions at the local office where you can walk around displaying your newfound sense of ’empowerment’– so you can feel good about yourself when you go home at night after such a hard days work and stare at the powerful woman in the mirror who’s going to challenge the retarded delusion of “THE PATRIARCHY” (insert ominous music here) remember its actually men who have died who have made it quite nice for you here in the western world no matter how you try to blow things up while you’re buying a new gucci handbag worth 900$. Especially when that 900$ could have been put to more philanthropic use. Like gender studies in the east. Loser.
I grew up with parents that expected me to behave as you have written. Unfortunately as I have grown up I’ve stopped this practice much of the time, mainly for the simple fact that women are no longer appreciative of this type of act. There have been a number of times I have been cussed out by women of different ages for simply opening the door for them to a restaurant or store. I’ve heard everything from sexist remarks to my hands aren’t broken I can do it myself. If women were still brought up to be prim and proper then perhaps men wouldn’t be so against the idea of performing these tasks.
It is sad though that I have stopped most of this with my wife too. Perhaps because she see’s it as a competition. I know she wants to have fun by racing me to the door, but it goes against the grain and actually I find it quite annoying. Just let me open the door and if there is a vestibule then wait for me to open the second door too.
Oh and Joe, I agree with you. The vulgar dress code of ladies today is distasteful and disrespectful. I can no longer tell if a lady is 30 or 12 years old.
Prim and proper? Really. So people have to act a certain way for you to treat them politely? People are rude, that’s just how they are. You want to make your wife wait around for you? You sound like a fun sucker. I lift, hunt, and cuss to make sure I never draw in men like you. I’d much rather be around men who can respect me for my personality. And they do exist. 🙂
@ Audrey
“So people have to act a certain way for you to treat them politely?”
The answer to this question is generally Yes. People do have to act in a civilized manner or polite way for people to treat them with respect. If someone disrespects you, are you going to treat them politely? Are you ALWAYS polite to someone who is not polite towards you? If you answered yes to the question, you are a saint. My guess is that you answered no…like the rest of society.
Like Eric, I too have been yelled at for holding a door open for a woman. Does it stop me from holding doors open for women? No. But it did open my eyes to the fact that even a simple act of kindness towards another human being can be seen (by that specific woman) as an attempt by a man to marginalize a woman and keep that woman in her gender specific role….when in reality I was simply holding the door for another fellow human. I was raised by a single mother and have 2 sisters. I respect women. I don’t hold doors open for women to get anything in return. All I do ask in return…is that those people for whom I held doors open, please do the same when you are in that situation. Hold the door for the next person. Man or woman. Easy peezy.
Audrey, isn’t it funny how scarred and upset men are by the woman or three who quickly commented that they didn’t need their doors held?
I wish we could put men in a woman’s body for a week and let them experience the entitlement and expectations of strange men (or mere acquaintances). Expectations that you’ll put up with the rudeness, the interruptions, the forced conversations, the anger when you’re not receptive, expectations around how you look and how you talk and what you wear and where you wear it and who sees you wearing it. Acting as if your body is somehow their business, and as if they’re entitled to an opinion about your every action. All from strangers who don’t know your name and wouldn’t shed a tear if you died tomorrow – but you’re supposed to care about how they feel and what they think. it’s absolutely insane. And if a simple “no thank you” when you hold a door can sear itself into these men’s minds, can you imagine what a week as a woman would do to their heads?
I think what gets conflated in these articles and ideas is that the men are simply being kind to someone they love, which is of course a good thing and is well intentioned. Would I do any and all of these things for my wife, of course, if that was what she really wanted, however I don’t think I’d have fallen so deeply in love with my wife if it wasn’t for the fact that my wife abhors these things. Instead she focuses on little things that aren’t a part of chivalry, but instead are a part of showing your love for your spouse. She often brings up the time I switched plates with her at a wedding because she didn’t like the food and I told her I loved hers. After finishing her plate (which was mine) I stopped eating the horrible food I had gotten and fessed up to simply wanting her to enjoy her meal. She has told me often, even to this day that she would love to eat at some restaurant instead of another because she knows I prefer the first. We show our love and respect by being kind, by helping eachother when the other one needs it, and by treating each other as equals in a relationship where we know either of us would do anything for the other one (and more). I don’t go out of my way to open doors for her because it would be a superfluous act which draws more attention to me than to helping her. We love each other and the way we show it more than anything is by calling ourselves a team. When we are working on putting the kids to bed, she expects as much out of me as I do out of her. When we are working on a house project, I expect the same out of her as I do out of myself. She is capable, independent and strong and I would never want to diminish this in her by treating her like my children who need me to walk them to the door, who need me to open doors for them, who need to know when they’ve done well, and who need me to help them into their chair. These are things I do for the children I love in my life, but my wife is not a child, she doesn’t need me to do these things, nor does she want to be treated like a child. I am proud to stand next to her when she gives up her seat for an elderly man on the subway who may actually need the chair, I am proud to stand next to her when she helps our children by pulling their seats out for them. But I don’t need her to do some meaningless acts to let me know she loves me, she does this is such bigger actions and with more complex words than can be inferred from treating me like we treat our children and I know she feels the same way about my actions and words.
I love that you’ve highlighted this. There’s love – which are the individualized things that my husband does for me because they’re a big deal to me (and probably no one else). And that’s what you describe for your wife. And then there’s just good manners – which is being considerate and aware of the people around you. Some people like to call that chivalry, but it really doesn’t need to be gender specific. I hold doors for men and women and have doors held for me by men and women. I’ve given my seat up for women who were pregnant or had several small kids with them. I’ve been given a seat by a guy a time or two (and by women more often because they know how much heels can hurt!) because I was in heels. It’s certainly not expected or owed, but it’s appreciated. It’s very different from love, even though both involve thoughtful acts.
So let me get this straight:
1. The man always drives
2. The woman’s value is in her beauty
3. Man strong, woman weak, man give up seat to woman
Kindness is something we need to work on as a society. “Chivalry” is the benign half of sexism, but the assumptions that come with it carry over to the less benign half.
Holding open doors is kindness. Holding open doors for women only (with the inherent background of women need help with doors) is chivalry. Complimenting your significant other is kindness, focusing on a woman’s beauty is chivalry. Etc.
1) Who cares who drives.
2) Beauty is part of her value, sure.
3) Man is stronger. Women are weaker. I assume we’re talking physically- right? Man should give up his seat for woman- unless she’s a transvestite- Then it gets confusing.
Feminism is dumb. Id love to hear what women like Jean would say if she were on the Titanic. “No, really- I think it should be child, then men and women draw straws”.
When does Mad Men Season 7 start? I’m ready to watch the good ole’ days again.
Feminism is dumb? Afghanistan is very devoid of feminism right now. Let’s see how that’s working for them:
http://www.trustineducation.org/resources/life-as-an-afghan-woman/
We vote because of feminism. We can open a back account without a male cosigner because of feminism (that became legal in the 1970s, btw). We can own a house on our own because of feminism. We can help our families put a roof over our heads and lighten the load of single-income households because of feminism. Feminism is simply asking that women be as valued as men by the law, by medicine, by the workforce, by their family members. Not more valued. As valued. How is that bad?
I don’t think the point was that the women’s beauty is her worth. In a society that constantly gives you examples of how you should look, despite the impossibility of women looking that perfect without editing, it is nice to hear that someone you love doesn’t expect that from you because he thinks you are already beautiful. Also, that was just one example of a compliment. You are not limited to talking about how she looks.
Thank you. Being a women I have to say that is EXACTLY what I miss men doing … that and more. He pays, he leads and shows protection, honor, and respect. Love it!
But do you miss cooking for your men? what about ironing his clothes?
Reblogged this on The Spontaneous Idealist and commented:
I support this:
I agree that all of these things are great to do and should be done by both sexes as a show of respect and consideration for others. The only thing that I would add is that those daily compliments do not need to focus purely on beauty, though beauty compliments are always appreciated. I think it is important to be noticed and appreciated for other qualities as well, such as intelligence, talents (cooking, art, hobbies), thoughtfulness, kindness, strength, patience, etc.
My father and mother were both from the WWII era and they raised 3 girls. We watched my father treat our mother like a lady and knew that was how we should expect to be treated. My father also instilled in his 3 daughters that there is a difference between a lady and a woman. Better not hear any man refer to one of us as a woman 🙂
I’ve raised 3 boys into men basically by myself. I have tried hard to instill these values in each of them, starting with their first date to a dance or a movie at the age of 13, 14 or 15. While driving to pick up the girl, I reminded them of each thing I had taught them, because I knew how important it was to me to feel respected and special. As I read the list, I realized that I missed 2 of them. I’ll be forwarding this to the 2 younger ones that are still 26 and 18 lol
As I find myself recently single, after many years, I have already realized that a true gentleman is a very rare thing now. It makes me very sad.
One more way to be a gentleman: if a woman has held a door open for you (she was there before you, its her job, etc) walk through it. Maybe say thank you. Please don’t ignore the offered open door and go out of your way to open the other door yourself and walk through it. Honor the gesture as you would like your gestures honored.
When my husband started opening my door while we were dating, I was weirded out. I kinda just stood there and wondered why he was on my side of the car. I appreciated the gesture, but I felt uncomfortable. I am perfectly capable of opening my door myself, and it’s taking up time when he could be getting into the truck while I get in.
Make no mistake, he’s very courteous and does a lot of little things for me – drops me off at the door when it’s raining, gets up and opens the door when my arms are full, offers his chair to the elderly – but I never stand there and demand he treat me chivalrously.
I guess articles like this are offputting to people like me is that I expect considerate treatment for EVERYBODY, not just women. Anybody who needs a hand at the time, and not just me because I happen to have a XX chromosomes.
To James, who wrote this article, thank you for reminding men that being chivalrous is not being sexist, but showing your love and respect for women.
To all men out there who do these tings mentioned on a regular basis, thank you from the bottom of my heart. Please continue to try to pass this along by leading through example, to the young men of this world. I love it when my husband does any of the things mentioned in this article. Yes, it shows he cherishes me. I feel special to him, and it makes me glad every time, that I’m married to him.
To the few women who are so afraid of being seen as weak, or not “equal” enough for letting a man do something for them, YIKES! I’m shocked that you would actually prefer someone to be rude to you, than for a man to do an act of kindness for you.
Now, to all you guys who don’t do this…get a little class, and start. ALL your relationships might improve. Also, for you guys who read this, and think “pfft, I’m not doing that.”, well, when you see a man holding a door for a woman, I would highly recommend you not actually cut in front of her, like some idiot did to my mother in law. My father in law grabbed the guy by his ponytail, told him the door was being held for his wife, and the other women in his family, not for some disrespectful thug, and that he would wait until after the women passed. While the guy was getting his small lecture, my mother in law, walked through the door, followed by myself, my sister in law, and her 2 girls. We then, turned around, and applauded my father in law. Since my husband and his 2 brothers were alwo with us, the guy just rubbed his head, and did nothing.
Love this article. Chivalry is just another word for respect. If men treated women this way more often, I think the divorce rate would plumate. I grew up in the country and was taught to respect others. I have been married a few times and they all failed due to lack of respect for my partner and me being the only one trying to make things work. Now that I am older and pick my friends more wisely, I do have a few gentlemen friends that have not forgotten how to treat a lady. And these are not men that I date, they are just friends. Young people nowadays don’t have respect for each other. Women think they have to dress up like they are advertising their bodies to try to get a man. Ladies, that is not going to get you a decent man. I wish I had held out for a man that treated me with chivalry instead of someone they thought they could control. I have gotten to the point in my life that I am happier alone than with a man because of this. I have not dated for several years because I haven’t seen anything out there I would want to date. And the couple of men friends that I have now that area gentlemen have been friends for years and I don’t want that to end, so there’s no dating between us. I feel like if the Lord wants me to be with a man, he will send the right one to me one day and if not, I will still be happy alone but with my friends. I have everything I’ve always wanted after being singe for 14yrs now, and I got it all on my own. I did not get anything out of my divorces, if anything I got stuck with a lot of the bills. For all those women out there that say chivalry is sexist don’t know what they are talking about. I wish I knew back then what I know now and I would never had to go through those bad times because I would have waited for the right man that would treat me like a lady. And ladies, yes we are weaker physically, but men can treat us as equals when it comes to other aspects of our lives. I have 12 acres and 2 horses that I take care of by myself but there are some things that I can’t do by myself and have to have help from a man. There’s nothing wrong with that. I remember the first time a man opened the car/truck door for me and it was the hardest thing for me to get used to because it had not happened but maybe one other time in my entire life and I am 55yrs young. But now I expect it from a man or there won’t be another date. We Women have got to learn to expect respect from men if you want to find a good one that will last your lifetime. Unfortunately I learned that too late. But I have raised my values up now and will accept no less. Letting a man open a door for you or offering you a seat is not putting you down or saying you are weaker than him, it is all about respect. I see people today that treat each other worse than you would treat a wild animal. This country has got to wake up and change the way we treat each other or we area going to run the country into the ground . I am all about equal rights for women when it comes to jobs, etc. but I will have no respect for a man that doesn’t show respect to me. I tried to teach my sons these values but unfortunately my older son has always lived with his grandparents since he was 17 and they never held him responsibe for anything and gave him everything he wanted. He never had to work for anything and he treated them like they were trash and destroyed everything that was given to him and also my parents house. He has tried to treat me this way and I gave him multiple chances to change his ways. He is now 32yrs old and living in 14ft camper that is about 50yrs old on my stepfathers property because he is not longer welcome at my house because of the way he has treated me. You reap what you sow and he has reaped his way out of any inheritance now. My younger son and his daughter will get everthing because he has always shown me respect and has made it on his own. He made some bad decisions when he was younger but he learned from them and joined the army and now has a beautiful wife and daughter and even though he has had some tough time financially, he has never asked me for a penny. He is 24yrs old and just bought his first house and finally got a good job where he can advance his career. I am so proud of him and hope he passes on his respectful ways to his daughter. Hopefully more parents will teach their children to respect others and make this world a better place to live in. Kudos to the men of chivalry and I hope there will be more of them in the future.
.
@ Sandra
I cannot agree less with your comment that If men treated women this way more often, I think the divorce rate would plumate [sic]. You are suggesting that divorce only occurs because men do not behave properly. I have been working in Family Law for 5-6 years now and that is simply not the case.
What is even more confusing is that you state that your own marriages have failed because you lacked respect for your partners. I thought you grew up in the country and was taught to respect others.
So divorce wouldn’t happen in America if more men were chivalrous…but your marriages all ended because you lacked respect for your partners? Did you lack respect for your partners … because they weren’t chivalrous? I don’t see the connection. You chose these men to marry. Were they all chivalrous at one time but then stopped? Or were they never chivalrous and you expected them to change once you got married?
I also have a problem with your choosing to complain that there are no men out there that are chivalrous. You have not dated for several years because you haven’t seen anything out there you would want to date…except that you do have men in your life that you would want to date…but don’t date them because they aren’t attractive enough for you. Those couple of men friends that you do have, who are complete gentlemen are your friend…but that friendship won’t end simply because you date. You just don’t want to date them because you don’t think they are good enough or attractive enough for you. You are using that as an excuse because you don’t find them attractive. You didn’t say that they don’t want to date you…you only said that you don’t want to date them, because you don’t want that friendship to end.
Please do not say that there are no chivalrous men out there for you to date. Call it as you see it. You just don’t find your “chivalrous” guy friends attractive enough to date. You can’t date assholes all your life and complain that you only date assholes. Give the nice guy a chance and he will surprise you. Either way, don’t make excuses. Own your own shit.
[…] See on jamesmsama.wordpress.com […]
This article should only be geared toward non American women. The women in the USA have lost almost all their feminine value and instead would rather become like men. (Trying to think like a man etc) Men aren’t chivalrous anymore because the women don’t deserve it. We are not gentlemen to women who have adopted masculine values. Another thing is being polite doesn’t get them laid. Cold hard truth. In my personal experience, and the experience of friends and countless other men, the less we give a damn…the more the gorgeous women are attracted to us. Thus the more fun we have without all the stress, nagging, and nonsense that comes with a relationship. Women could change the dynamics of dating overnight by responding positively to true gentlemen behavior. To bad being noble dries up the lady parts. Oh well. Back to being a jerk.
Sadly, much of what you say is true.
I think it is a sweet thing to do but I grew up with mutual respect for every living thing. I would do these things for anyone, it is just polite. But I don’t expect any special treatment because I have a vagina. If you are a man and do these things the you deserve a lot more respect than any woman can give you.
I love all eight. Because it’s rare it makes me get closer to falling in love with the guy. Usually when I go out with a man, I wait for these things.
1.) If he doesn’t pull out my chair, I remain standing (“My Fair Lady”/Audrey Hepburn-style). If he doesn’t open my door, I stand there.
2.) I also drop hints, “I love it when a man walks me to my door.” “Men who compliment me make me feel so special. They make me feel they’re paying attention to me. I love that.”
3.) If he doesn’t pick up on these cues, he gets no second date. When he calls for another date my response is, “I’m not available.”
Boom. Thank you, Gladys Diaz. You taught me well!
If you said those things and acted like that I wouldn’t want to finish the first.
My Daddy taught me to wear shoes with laces on a first date. When it was time to get out of the car, I could bend down and adjust my shoelaces… giving my date a chance to realize I was not out of the car, come open the door and ask if I’m ok… which then gave me the opportunity to get out and thank him for opening the door for me…
Audrey Hepburn was a lady with class. The right lady can make you not want your first date to finish!
All people are equal, but some people are more equal than others.
So you’re an entitlement princess. Got it.
If we were on first date and you acted like that, you would never get the invitation for a second date.
And with those practices, you’ll attract a man like a few of the posters here, who expects you to do certain things for him in return. If that’s what you’re looking for, more power to you. My priority was a man who was secure enough in his masculinity to not hang it all on my behaviors and my simpering submission. So your approach wouldn’t have worked as well for me.
I’ve seen several responses asking why can’t this behavior apply towards everyone, not just women? Why would you think it does not? Do you not think a true gentleman would behave in a gentlemanly way with all people? Do you really think his gentlemanly behavior stops unless a woman is present? And vice versa. There was such a thing as a “gentlewoman” at one time. Sure, it’s an outdated term, but it still has meaning today. A gentlewoman (among other definitions) is a woman with good manners or high standards of behavior. Do you believe the good behavior is only present when women act in a kind way towards other women? Would you think that a gentlewoman would start being rude and disrespectful to others because they aren’t women? Why have some of you assumed chivalry is ONLY directed from men to women, and wouldn’t include all people?
Yes, this particular article pertains to chivalrous behavior on the part of men. But people have gone beyond the topic and started castigating this man for showing respect for women in particular. It’s sad, really. Look beyond the obvious and maybe you will understand why your comments really have no basis.
If you think that men are nice to you only because you are a woman, then maybe there is something wrong with YOU and not the man.
I assume, since gentlemen are excepted from being polite to “non-ladies”, the ladies are exempted from being ladylike around non-gentlemen?
I see no reason I should give my seat to a woman on a bus just because she’s female. I’ll give it to an elderly or handicapped person; they need it more than I do. But a woman who is a stranger to me and appears to be as healthy as I am? No. If there’s only one seat on a bus that I am boarding with a friend or family member, I’ll let them have it — but not because of gender, but rather because I love them.
As for doors, I hold them open for everyone. It’s polite.
Not texting to request a date–that’s just civilized behavior. A woman or gay man should not text their boyfriend for a date either. Again, gender not a factor.
I have tried pulling out chairs for women. In my experience, it confuses them. Most think I’m claiming that chair as my own. Those who catch on just shake their heads and roll their eyes. I stopped doing it long ago.
Compliments: everyone should compliment their romantic interest, regardless of gender. You see where I’m going with this. What’s called for is kindness and consideration, regardless of gender — a two-way street of kindness. Those who expect this kind of behavior to flow only in one direction are sexist.
I agree. Thanks for such a balanced analysis.
Precisely.
I grew up in Europe and did all those things listed above. It was drilled into me by my dad. But now much less … Women say they appreciate it, but my experience is they don’t. They find it convenient. For example the calling rather than texting. My rule is that anyone that calls I call back and it doesn’t matter if they are the janitor or my boss. When I call dates or potential dates they almost never call back. Even better I had some tell me they liked receiving calls and then the only thing I get back when i call is some short text. “Saw you called, am busy this week. Call me next week.” Chivalry would in this instance means that the other party, my potential date, then decides to return my call. I too have a busy life and when I can’t pick up i might also send a text saying that I am busy. But I will also include an apology and offer to call them myself and ask for a time that is convenient to them.
Ladies the reason why we aren’t chivalrous anymore is that you don’t show much appreciation and respect for it.
And don’t get me started on the amount of dates that have been cancelled on me at the last moment often under the guise of a lie. (One actually told me her kids were sick while i saw them playing with my friends kids at the same time.) By now i just assume the chance is about 50% and aleays make a backup plan. Somehow women seem to think i am stupid. It has gotten to the point when someone cancels like that I just assume they are lying and cut it of. Somehow I always can make it. The only time I cancelled was when I broke my leg. And the next day I sent flowers with an apology note.
[…] Day is a good a time as any to discuss that chivalry is still important. Ryan has done #6 since we met and it makes me feel so taken care […]
Just stumbled across your blog after someone linked to it from Facebook. Enjoyed these very much. I hope I never stop doing them.
[…] http://jamesmsama.wordpress.com/2014/02/01/8-acts-of-chivalry-to-bring-back/ […]
Chivalry is formulaic affection, the pop music of showing you care.
It’s not personal if it’s based on rules. Be a little creative.
Not to mention all the men who forget that we can see their reflection in the door ahead as they hold the door and stare at our backsides while we walk through. So chivalrous of you. Thanks, guys.
I make it a point to always do these things for the girl that I am on a date with. I also think it is important to always give your seat up for all women and open doors for people that are behind you walking into a building. It is important to make a girl feel special that deserves it. However, it is unfortunate that there are so many unclassy girls these days and not that many girls that you would want to invest any sort of time in.
Thank you for writing this. I know of several men in my life (friends and co-workers) who do this sort of thing often… sorry almost all of the time; I work at a fast food restraint and one of my male co-workers insists on holding the walk in fridge and freezer door open for me, I will often tell him thank you but you really don’t have to. I love it when MEN and WOMEN do these things. I can be as simple as holding the door open for the person behind you when you get off the buss it shows courtesy and politeness from ANYONE who does it. It shows a respect for others especially those you care about and if one does it for a stranger it shows a respect for your fellow human being.
[…] 8 Acts Of Chivalry To Bring Back. […]
Yes, any lady-like, feminine woman deserves this type of treatment.
What if the ladies are reserving their lady-like behavior for the masculine gentlemen who deserve it? If everyone followed your thought process, we’d all be waiting for someone to lead us into adult-like, well-reared behaviors.
1) I give up my seat for elderly, disabled or anyone carrying a baby (not for a young girl who can perfectly stand)
2) I open doors for anyone behind me
3) I don’t pull out chairs for any girl unless she lost her hands or drop a girl first again unless she is disabled.
4) I will walk anyone to the door who come to visit me, doesn’t matter if its a girl or a guy, old or young.
5) I always walk on the street side no matter who I walk with. I am protective of my loved ones again no matter who it is.
Respect for everyone goes a long way. But treating girls in a special way in the name of chivalry is BS. When we all strive for gender equality, chivalry is just a slap in the face of all feminist movement. Girls who expect these things from men stay single and miserable for very long time. Luckily my wife doesn’t expect any of these BS
Agree. Sadly, I’ve found that men who start out making the biggest deal out of their chivalry become the crudest, most misogynist people down the road. Men who don’t make a big deal out of chivalry or treating women differently are often fairly considerate people. I’m not sure why that is, but it’s happened too often to be a coincidence.
I don’t understand why this has to go from male to female. I am a male and if I see a elderly of ANY sex, I will get up. I will hold the door for ANYONE, should they be behind me. If it is practical, I will open a car door for ANY passenger. Chivalry and defining one as a Gentleman is not limited to sex, it’s about being a polite professional, civilized in manner and mannerisms to all you encounter.
My husband does all these things, taught our daughter to expect them, and taught our son to do them. Chivalry is not dead, but it is endangered. It should definitely be brought back – women need to realize they’re worth these things. Doing these things does not make a lady weak; it makes her valued.
@ Mimi
Shouldn’t you teach your daughters to be polite and courteous to all people…men and women? Instead, you choose to teach your daughters to expect chivalrous acts, instead of teaching both your son and daughters to do these things.
And why are only women worth these acts of chivalry? it would be great if this was not a man vs. woman issue. It is a respect towards fellow human beings issue.
I would rather raise a daughter that helps others out, out of respect and kindness compared to a daughter that stands on her side of the car waiting for the man to open it for her and never does the same act of kindness in return.
Chivalry is dead. Because women killed it. -Dave Chappelle
The problem with this list is its old fashioned, its from a time woman appreciated this behavior, now they just expect it from you and have no appreciation…I do tons of things on this list, just cuz I feel like being nice, but it doesnt score you any “brownie points” anymore.
This is the end result of feminism. Gender roles are confused and men see no point in treating woman like they are special anymore, because they ALL think they are special…
Last but not least, why bow they cow when the milk is free. Woman may be more sexaully free these days, but it comes at a price, and that is a lacking of respect from the opposite gender. Many men see no need for Chivalrous behavior because “un-chivalrous behavior” is still rewarded
sorry, “buy the cow”
You do realize a lot of women now days are also rejecting men for being “sl*tpuppies”, right? Too many risks and the chance that someone will show up at his door right after your wedding with a 7-year-old that is his child. Feminism means women don’t have to marry a guy right after college, so can afford to be more selective in finding a guy who is worth all that she brings to the table. I can see why that might be troubling for some men, but if you have a daughter, it should be a very encouraging development.
Sorry, “buy the pig when all you wanted was a little sausage.”
Respect, kindness and courtesy are sorely missing in our modern human interactions and we need to bring them back. However, it should be an expectation for all people, not just men in their behavior towards women, and not just a few token throwback gestures that remind many women of a time when men opened doors, gave up seats and pulled out chairs but did not truly respect women’s ideas and viewpoints or value their contributions to the world. True chivalry is not based upon a rigid code of behavior that calls for certain expected actions based on pre-determined gender roles, it’s a heartfelt expression of regard for others that aims to empower and encourage all people.
Very well said!
[…] Michael Sama wrote on his blog a list of what it means to be a gentleman, and I couldn’t agree […]
It’s sad that people are completely convinced that all men in the past did these things for the wrong reasons. I grew up being taught these acts of chivalry and I know very few men who did them for chauvinistic purposes. Even the older men I know do them because they love and respect women and enjoy treating them well. Of course there are men who use these things for the wrong reasons, but that is not because of the era they lived in, it is because of their lack of character. The use of chivalrous acts is relative to the man, not the era. It just saddens me that people look on past generations of men with such disdain when many of these men have been the greatest inspirations to me about how to treat a woman with the utmost respect and love.
What? This is a real article? Is this 1950? Women have arms, legs, a brain. Why should I hold a door for a perfectly capable woman? Why should I give up a seat or walk on the street side of the street? Cultures change. Concepts of what is right or wrong change. I’m going to offend the average intelligent woman by standing and offering a seat. I’m going to offend the average woman by attempting to baby her and coddle her into this sense that as a man it is my job to protect her in some way. I think a bit of politeness, respect, appreciation can go a long way, but it doesn’t have to be sex specific.
Wait, so I’m supposed to walk her to her door in the name of safety after a date. But during the date, it’s okay to drop her off first and leave her alone while I go park the car. Brilliant. But what else would one expect from an article that’s written from the perspective where the woman holds all the cards? Where the man’s job is to simply impress. What is the woman’s equivalent to chivalry?
Opening doors, giving up seats, walking to the door. I do that for anyone. On a date, not on a date, Girl or guy. That’s just manners.
Where on earth did you come up with these ridiculous statistics? How would data on something like average number of men who pull out their dates chairs even be gathered?
” I think it’s important to question everything, and then question the answers you get. If someone tells you something is true, ask them why.” (From JMS’s bio)
lol
Ask, and ye shall receive: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2516858/Is-chivalry-officially-dead-Men-unlikely-offer-women-seats-help-buggies-fear-offending–WANT-to.html
James the website article you linked also does not document their source for said “research” and quotes a psychologist and “relationship expert” possibly out of context. Sloppy.
I don’t read blogs but I saw this plastered around a friend’s Facebook and thought it would be good for a laugh. It was.
It also seems like from your user’s comments you’d do better to change some of the language from “men should” to “people should”.
@James Michael Sama
I liked the first user comment to the article which you use as a source for your statistics.
Jane177:
“If you believe in gender equality you can’t advocate for chivalry. Everyone is equal. Any woman who believes in gender equality but wants chivalry shown to them is a clear case of double standards. And men are not non chivalrous out of fear of “offending” they are non chivalrous because more and more of them are beginning to believe in gender equality.”
Can’t argue with that.
Seriously, the Daily Mail is your source?
Some of these should just be considered common courtesy, regardless of sex. Yesterday, for example, I was sitting in a chair (I’m 56 years old) and a mom with a couple kids came in–I was sitting in a hospital ER waiting are near the TV–and because I know it’s tough to be there, especially with kids, I gave up my seat to her since she needed to park herself down where her kids would want/need to be. I also think it’s okay to open a door for anyone. Just be kind!
Hold the door. Drop her first. Pull the chair. Pay for the dinner. Give up your seat. Compliment the heck out of her. Get into her pants. And repeat the same with another girl.
This may sound cruel. How many time I have seen guys like this…Sadly most girls fall for this. They all expect a “Mr.PERFECT” from lala land. A Mr.Ok who loves them and stays loyal without any of these superficial gestures is always branded as too nice and ignored.
Don’t forget offering her your jacket when it’s cold.
You mean other men don’t do all these things?
I think what men deserve in return for being courteous need not be extravagant and “ridiculously burdensome”, the well mannered men I know are more than pleased with a smile and sweet (not condescending) “thank you”. The same way we expect men to open doors and shield us from the rain before themselves, women should be expected to be gracious and thankful for men going out of their way to do these simple things.
Except there are a host of men posting here that they DO expect extravagant and burdensome things in exchange for “chivalry.” And act as if their two only settings are “chivalry toward women” and “treating women like trash.” In reality, if we remove chivalry, we still have basic courtesy and good manners, which are gender neutral and are generally sufficient for all of us to bump along together in a relatively pleasant, non-sexist society.
I may be a dying breed of human. Not a man, I’m a woman. I see an elderly person (male or female) I will offer my seat, hold open a door, offer to carry their bags, or help them reach for things in stores. If someone holds open a door for me (male or female), I will smile politely and say thank you. I was raised that if someone does something polite, you respond in kind. You say please, thank you, yes ma’am, no ma’am, yes sir, no sir, and you’re welcome. Somehow these simple acts of courtesy have been lost to all, not just the next generation, but to people from every generation. Perhaps bringing back that would make the world a better place in general and not just teaching men how to be gentlemen again, but also teaching women how to be ladies.
I whole heartedly believe in chivalry, however I do not believe it should be expected.
I happily take out my wallet and pay, etc.. but if the other person shows no appreciation or that its expected as if not to mutter a simple “Thank you” or at least fake a reach for her wallet (which i would refuse) it shows an unearned sense of entitlement. Which lets be honest is not an attractive characteristic, its also a sign of more headache to come.
Someone that is not willing to assume responsibilities for a meal or movie ticket is not willing to accept responsibilities for their half of the rent, or their family car payment. For you to allow that you basically turn yourself into a piggy bank for that person.
I have seen quite a few comments about “why do men have to do all this stuff? What do women ever do for us?”
First of all, you don’t HAVE to. If I get on a subway and there are no seats, too bad for me. That’s a risk I take when ai decide to take public transportation. If a gentleman offers his seat to me, I will kindly accept and thank him but offer that same seat to the next woman or elderly person who gets on. It’s called being decent.
Second of all, what do women do for men? I know times have changed but I cook dinner for my fiance every single night, I pack his lunch for work, I make sure there are groceries in the house and that he has basic toiletries and such, I clean up after him, I will birth his child when that time comes, and I will raise that child. Need I go on? Sure, in the dating world, men do all the heavy lifting, but in marriage/long-term relationships, I can only assume that women do all the things I listed. My mother did, I do, and many of my friends do as well. Oh, and to all the feminists out there who think I’m doing it wrong, I also have a successful career and I’m very happy doing all the things I do to keep my household running smoothly and my fiance is perfectly happy opening literally every single door for me.
As a disabled man,who has to use a walker to get around, I sometimes wonder why a young woman/man can’t imagine giving up his/her seat in a waiting room or on a bus or anywhere there is a group waiting, so that a handicapped person can have a seat. They just sit and play with their phone and let you stand.
I agree. Whether you are male or female you should give up your seat to someone handicapped or elder. All kids should know respect. When you reach it to one they expect it from others also and it is a snowball effect.
Agreed. A lot of what the writer said should apply to both sexes. I’ve often held doors for men whose hands are full, offered my seat on the bus to people of both genders if their need was greater than mine (and I have trouble with my back and legs) and done other small courtesies. It’s about thinking of someone other than yourself, and that’s sorely missing in today’s society.
It’s more common in Europe than the US: either becasue parent teach thier children these habits or parent do these courteous actions themselve and the children see it. Another factor could be that we in the US are used to a car culture and rarely take public transport, so we are not familiar with that code of conduct.
Wow…that is sad. I’m sorry you face th.at
yolo
One thing I would mention is that many of us have invisible illnesses or disabilities that prevent us from being able to offer our seat. Certainly I think that is NOT the case most of the time but I know I still have a hard time not offering my seat even though it’s no longer good for me to do so, even though I may look fine.
Yes, as I look around I often see how everyone is addicted to their smartphones. It makes me sick.
As a young person, If I am on a bus and there are no seats left, I ALWAYS let an elderly/disabled/pregnant woman have my seat.
Not to mention there are signs that say stand up for the disabled at least in my city there are. How rude. Most people could use a brush up on proper manners.
This is a difficult one. From an objective perspective, I would ask why a “young man” should give up his seat to a lady? Why are females better than young men? All human beings are equal. Men are human beings that God created like women. Why are men always beaten up and expected to be a door mat? Yes, back in 1930’s and 60’s, and even early 90’s, yes, men were expected to be the leaders in just about all areas aside from kitchen duties and child rearing. Men were expected to support the family financially. But that’s because men were the ones who got the jobs that enabled them to support a family of four without issues. Now times have changed. There’s equality in the job market and even favors females. The mean earning power for women is probably even better on average nowadays. So why is that men are expected to pay on dates? Of course, as a guy, I want to and plan to be chivalrous. But I really don’t see why men are less than women. I just don’t see why we are not all equal–young, old, ugly, pretty.
Men aren’t less than women, and honestly, these acts have base assumptions to them that hurt women more than anything else. I’m not so weak that I can’t stand on public transit. I can open the door for myself. I’m financially independent, and I can pay for my own meal. That last one is based on the assumption that women were (or were expected to be) stay-at-home wives or mothers and thus couldn’t financially support themselves and were entirely dependent on a man’s income. Articles like this drive me insane because women are not the weaker sex, and if a guy wants to do this for me, fine, I won’t reject his kindness. However, it shouldn’t be assumed that guys should do this for a lady to be considered a gentleman because we’re not dainty, pretty little things that sit on a shelf and can’t function on our own. Want to be a gentleman? There’s one rule and one rule alone: be respectful. Bam.
To answer your question, women are not better than men. The suggestion that men give up their seats for women does not indicate that women are superior to men. It is merely a gesture of respect. As a woman, I personally don’t care about that particular demonstration of chivalry, but I recognize that it is a nice thing to do.
Concerning your point about equality: Men and women may have equal value, but they do not have equal opportunities. Your assertions that the job market favors women and that women have higher earning potential are both false. It is true that women lost fewer jobs in the recession and that their overall unemployment rate is lower, but this is because most of the jobs lost were in male-dominated fields such as construction and manufacturing. But women are underrepresented in a number of fields, particularly in STEM professions and managerial positions. They are also severely underrepresented in the political arena. Given equal qualifications, men are more likely to be seen as competent and are more likely to be hired. And to this day women make approximately 77 cents for every dollar that men make in equivalent professions. The Equal Wage amendment to the constitution was never passed, so employers are not legally required to pay women the same rates as men for comparable work, regardless of the fact that, as you said, all human beings are equal.
Lastly, even if men and women were perfectly equal in all possible respects, chivalry would not be superfluous. Chivalry is not a diabolical means to subjugate men. It is a means for one to show one’s respect for another.
Will, someone has lied to you. Women have an inborn need (no matter how much they fight and deny it) to be treated as…a women. When women try to tote the “equality” line, that is the time to ditch them. when they want to have the privileges of masculinity without its downfalls, they are simply in denial of nature. these are not the women of substance, Avoid them at all costs! if a woman is a lady in the purest sense of the word; go for it. Literally worship her radiant essence, as it is abandoned to the wind. If she is just any ol’ skank, do not go out of your way to comfort her entitlement issues. (EVER) It is a mans job to treat a woman like a queen; conversely, it is the woman’s duty and responsibility to act as such. chivalry is not meant for peasants, will. Moreso – women will always have a need to be worshiped and cared for by a man, this is not negotiable. The political woman is in denial and IS NOT your equal. i suppose that your question can be summed up in saying that women are indeed the weaker vessel. men are not lesser because of their sex; chivalry is an admonition of her weakness – an offensive shield, so to speak. In embracing your masculinity you will attract the feminine to your person. In her acceptance of your dominion, there will be harmony. That, is the purpose of chivalry.
I think that you are asking the wrong question, my friend. It is not a matter of who is equal or not it is a polite thing to do and that is all that matters. Now as a guy I my self do all of these things not because women are feeble or meek, but because they are women and deserve to be treated like queens. For with out women there is no society. Women are the life bringers and knowing this, that you can not possibly continue your legacy with out one, you are surely mistaken in thing you are a door mat.
“Women’s Studies: The major for women who want to complain about there not being enough women majoring in STEM.”
What about “hand on rear end”? I think the writer of the article forgot that one.
Do you have something against a happy hand?
One that was forgotten but I was raised with was to follow a woman up stairs and to go in front going down stairs. This is to stop her in case she trips and falls. I know we live in an age of escalators and elevators, but there are times that this is still relevant.
Its also useful when she’s wearing a short skirt.
You’re the reason this article needed to be written.
Chivalry was about how men treated men. Of course now that feminism has turned women into men, perhaps it does still apply.
I am a feminist sir. But I am very much a woman.
Well said!
perhaps your genitals support your claims but there is much more to being a woman than body-parts. An inherently sexist ideology is but a mask of ontological confusion and failure.
But you, sir (Mandy Heath), are no lady.
Feminism also apparently turned some
men into idiots if they think respect and fairness changes biological sex.
In other words. Only men deserve respect no matter what scum you are. Yet women must earn respect. See chivalry has died.
Yes it has died feminism broke the social compact. If you want equality then you also have to accept the responsibilities that go with that equality. Chivalry is indeed dead and yes feminism is a big part of the reason why. That sword cuts both ways wip23 but nice try
Please ignore that ignorant comment below yours. That person is totally uneducated. If women want equality it’s equal treatment not we want to be the same as men. Men better hope that women don’t start leaving around stinky socks and skipping showers. If women had it equal they wouldn’t have a full time job at home and a full time job outside the home for three quarters of the pay of ONE JOB. Men need to start appreciating women more and women need to stop taking care of them when they don’t.
Mr. Glover, just to clarify, chivalry was the training of knights in a code of conduct which included protecting others who could not protect themselves including widows, orphans and elders. So yes, males were included in orphans and in the elderly populations, but the conduct wasn’t a ‘locker room code’ as you seem to be implying. And feminism hasn’t ‘turned women into men’ it merely seeks equal opportunities for women. Much like the Civil Rights Movement did for African Americans back in the 1960’s. I hope these definitions cleared things up for you.
In theory, that’s what feminism espoused to be. Reality paints a much different picture.
Reblogged this on Juliana Writes and commented:
Not that this has anything to do with writing. Although, the list does contain several items my male characters strive to do. (ps – My husband has agreed to wear a top hat and tails one day for me!)
I agree with you 100%. I especially agree with what you said about “cringing” when a young man leaves a woman standing on a bus or train while he remains comfortably seated. And when I open the door for my wife and another couple, in which the man doesn’t open the door, sees, it makes me chuckle inside hoping he’s getting the fifth degree from her about it once inside the car. Great article James!
Perhaps his wife is talking about feeling pity for your wife since you think she unable to do the door herself. Perhaps they saw you get to the door first so you did it for her like a decent person, and she would open the next door for you.
Just because your wife wants you to do an act that make her look like a less capable human does not mean other couples are the same. Show the other couple some respect because your value of believing your wife is ignorant or weak is not true for all.
@Joelle – And you are the exact reason chivalry is dying…
Are you kidding me? I am married and have two sons, and when they are around never do I touch a door – not because I can’t or won’t, but because that is one way they show their respect and care for me. We all, daughter included, hold doors for others coming behind us, or who are carrying packages, disabled, etc. My youngest son, 10, has insisted on holding doors for others since we was 3. It’s amazing the great feedback he always gets (because it has become so rare among young people to show that respect for adults), and he gets a great sense of pride from doing this simple kind act. Our kids have been taught never to sit if there is still an adult that is need of a seat, and my husband does all of the things listed here. I can promise you it is with no other intention than out of his love and respect for me, and no one who knows me would EVER characterize me as anything but a very strong woman. All of the men I know who do the items listed do so out of care and respect. Joelle, get over yourself and attempt to show some respect for others!!! Anyone who thinks these “gentlemanly” acts are anything sinister needs a reeducation in life.
Sorry Joelle, I think I might have missed something…. Could you point me to the place in his comment where he says that his wife wants him to “make her look like a less capable human being?” Or where he says that he believes his wife is “ignorant or weak”? Hah, you know, it almost sounded like you were putting words in his mouth…..
Or we could treat women as, you know, EQUALS. If they are as strong as they claim they are, they don’t need to be coddled.
This response shows the problem clearly. Yes, I like the idea of treating women as equals – no problem with that. However, holding the door for someone is not “coddling” them. Think of it instead, as showing courtesy. If I am the first one to a door, I hold it open for the people (male or female) behind me – simple courtesy. If someone else reaches the door first, male or female, I think they should hold it for me. It’s about being nice to a fellow human being, not about keeping score in the “battle between the sexes”!
Yet another man who wants women to go back to being his worthless property. If you give no respect to others don’t expect any in return.
Exactly and women need to stop cleaning up after men and feeding them. We’re equals so scrub the floor and wash your own clothes. Do the grocery shopping take care of the kids and then work 40 to 60 hours a week. So ignorant.
Yes wip25, that’s *exactly* what he’s saying.
Next time, don’t put words in other people’s mouths.
i find most of these suggestions completely sexist. unless disabled or i have my hands full, i can open my own doors, thank you,
I was raised by my single mother to do all of these things for a lady. If you think these suggestions are sexist, then you weren’t raised to be a lady.
+1
Your mother failed you. She should have raised you to do these for anyone regardless of the gender. Most of these apply to being kind and respectful to others. Just do it for that reason alone…not because you have a Y chromosome.
I know i enjoy when i get to open the door for others with a smile…just because I made it to the door first so i can make there day. The there are hateful men who try to take away that joy because they decide I’m not worthy of opening the door for them. Don’t be a jerk, allow for mutual kindness.
Totally agree C-Dub.
Before considering sadly the death of chivalry we should ponder the death of women worth chivalry.
I think it’s interesting that you think that women who think that we should hold the door open for people regardless of their gender are trash.
Aaaand Rob Michael for the win.
Oh right, Joelle, cuz opening a door for a woman because you want to show that you respect her is…. being a jerk? Wait… what?
Listen, this issue isn’t about sexism, it isn’t about feminism, and it isn’t about chauvinism. It’s about respect. Respect is universal: it applies to any gender, FROM any gender. A woman can just as easily show her respect for a man by opening a door for him. If you and the President of the United States got to a door at the same time, what would you do? I should hope you’d have enough respect for him that you would show it by opening the door for him. If the president were a woman, the same would apply. See, it’s not all about you, women (or for that matter whoever thinks that opening a door for a woman is contemptuous or belittling). At least, it’s not all about you as a person. It’s about you as a woman, as someone whom God gave to man to protect, love, and serve (stress on the “serve”). To say that we men think you aren’t “worthy” to open our doors for us is frankly just ludicrous.
and probably will be for a long time.
Feminazis seem to think any gender-related generosity is sexism. I open the car door for my wife. She in turn reaches over and opens my car door before I get there. Who is the sexist one here? Do you understand that treating women the same as men means that men will no longer attempt to disguise their burps and farts in front of you, will punch you in the arm and call you lots of crude names? If you prefer that sort of behavior for having a door held for you, I’m sure men will line up to help you with that.
You assume that any of us care.
In other words Icky, your wife passed the door test. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kW94hQQMTQw
Some women actually like to be treated like a lady.
This woman definitely appreciates being treated like a lady. It isn’t a matter of whether or not we as women are capable of opening doors for others. I frequently will get the door for someone who is in need or because I am there first. I love that my husband opens doors for me. It shows me that he appreciates and cherishes me-not that I am frail and incapable. I hear women complain constantly about the fact that men aren’t men anymore. It’s probably because they don’t know which way to turn. If they open a door for a woman they have insulted her capabilities. If they don’t open the door they are rude. Must be tough for men knowing the right answer sometimes. I am raising my son to open doors and other niceties that are being lost. He also knows to extend these courtesies to others regardless of sex simply because he is kind.
Amen!
@Allen, it doesn’t matter if a woman enjoys being treated like a lady. What matters is if the woman is worthy of being treated like a lady.
What is sexist about trying to be nice, polite & courteous? I was raised & taught by example that all these things were normal behavior. I do all these for my wife & two daughters, even random stangers male/female all the time & never been accused of being sexist or told that I am being disrespecting. I was taught by a lady, that this is just a small part of how you are supposed to treat a lady. I then in turn have taught my two boys who are 8 & 10 to do the same thing & if the woman that they are being respectful to is rude, then she must not have been raised by a lady.
Rob Michael AND Dalton for the WIN!!! I am a female and get irritated everytime this subject comes up. Women have spent decades trying to immasculate men and then wonder why an increasing number behave the way they do. Decades of participation medals and ‘everyone is a winner’ have resulted in a sharp drop in the number of people who put forth an effort in anything. Expecially things as simple as consideration for others. I don’t think any man has ever held a door because he thought a woman incapable. Does he do it because he thinks she would remain standing outside for lack of understanding or capability with regard to the mechanics of a door? Personally, it makes my day to see a man do ANY of the above-listed things. I think it’s a sign of consideration from the stronger sex to the fairer sex. However, I open/hold doors for folks of both sexes daily. It’s just kind and considerate to make sure a door doesn’t slam in anyone’s face before they can get to it. For couples, I think it is a sign of affection. I want to do laundry/cook/clean for the man in my life because I care for him and he wants to protect/provide for me because he cares for me. Why is that backwards?
+1
Rob Michael AND Dalton for the WIN!!! I am a female and get irritated everytime this subject comes up. Women have spent decades trying to immasculate men and then wonder why an increasing number behave the way they do. Decades of participation medals and ‘everyone is a winner’ have resulted in a sharp drop in the number of people who put forth an effort in anything. Expecially things as simple as consideration for others. I don’t think any man has ever held a door because he thought a woman incapable. Does he do it because he thinks she would remain standing outside for lack of understanding or capability with regard to the mechanics of a door? Personally, it makes my day to see a man do ANY of the above-listed things. I think it’s a sign of consideration from the stronger sex to the fairer sex. However, I open/hold doors for folks of both sexes daily. It’s just kind and considerate to make sure a door doesn’t slam in anyone’s face before they can get to it. For couples, I think it is a sign of affection. I want to do laundry/cook/clean for the man in my life because I care for him and he wants to protect/provide for me because he cares for me. Why is that backwards?
Assuming the weather is not inclement, I disagree with the “drop off first” on a far-park. Certainly, you could give the lady the option, but if it is a long walk (and your lady is able-bodied), it provides a nice opportunity to talk. Also, it is not good sense to leave your lady unattended curbside for an extended period of time.
Thank-you! I agree. It could be less safe as well. This is only good if double teaming for tickets or seats. Walking together is sweet to do together. Perhaps walk hand in hand.
Does this apply when the woman drives? If it is a sign of respect then she should get to drop off the male. Have you just ticked off other cars behind you because you’ve had to idle to the car open her car door and the doors to the place since she is not able to do this?
I’m more impressed with intelligence on a man than these acts of pride and ignorance.
Way to over think a situation. When the weather is bad my husband often drops me off closer to the door because there is no sense in both of us being cold/getting wet. I however, open my own car door as it would be rude of me to expect him to get out and open my door and the facility door when the weather is bad. My husband does all of the things on this list and it has nothing to do with considering me inferior. He holds doors for men and women. We have a little saying, “He wears the pants. I pick the color.” I think that sums up how our relationship works quite well. 🙂 Not all men who do these things do them for sexist reasons. And I have never had a single person not allow me to open a door for them. No man has ever become frustrated or rude when I hold open a door from them.
SANDRA!!! “He wears the pants. I pick the color.” I am probably going to be quoting you for the rest of my life! XD
@Illinois Mike – Or, you could give her a piggyback ride. If she’s petite.
You can have chivalry, or you can have feminism. You cannot have both.
I disagree completely! I am a strong and capable woman and my husband knows it. He does, however, open doors for me when it is appropriate and walk streetside. These are things he does because of who HE is not because of who I am. He is a gentleman and I am respectful of the balance of our relationship. He doesn’t think I am weak and do these things because he think I cannot, he does them because he respects me and I allow him to because I respect him. I know that I can change my own tire should I get a flat, but if he is with me I will let him because he likes to take care of me. If I’m alone he knows I am safe. The two can coexist.
“These are things he does because of who HE is not because of who I am.” I couldn’t have said it better! If a woman defines herself by what a man does or doesn’t do for her, she is missing the point.
These are things he does because he’s your husband and he loves you. It’s not because you’re a woman, it’s because you are THE woman.
The acts of chivarly presented in this page are oriented to being performed by any man for any woman, which is granting special privileges to women as a group because of their gender, and turns men into a subservient role because of their gender.
That is sexism, and is the opposite of equality. Women want equality? Then you don’t get special privileges.
I’m a young able bodied man, and I will give my seat to elderly people, pregnant women and disabled people. If you are a young able bodied woman, you won’t get my seat, because you don’t have any more rights to the seat than me.
Still sounds like you want to have your cake and eat it too.
No true at all. My husband does these things for me, on the whole. My father did these things… Heck, as a mother, I even do some of these things for my children, and vice-versa. I walk streetside when with my children to offer another layer of protection should a car jump the curb or some other accident. Both my sons are excited and proud to get to open doors for me and for strangers just to be nice. My husband has offered for me and the kids to wait inside to run out into a pouring parking lot in order to bring the car around to the front so we can avoid the rain. To me, it has NOTHING to do with gender. People should do this for other people, period. I’m a woman, and I give up seats to anyone that looks like they need it more than me. It has NOTHING to do with feminism and everything to do with simple human courtesy.
You certainly can have both. The true feminists (not the Gloria Stienham type) who expect recognition for equal brain power & capability also allow the social graces of man/woman relationships. Men are not confused about their role and what a woman wants. The over the top feminists surely do not speak for a majority of today’s women.
but they seem to be the ones heard the most in mainstream media
That’s pretty much what Gloria Steinham (spelling!) does promote. Have you read any of her books or articles?
You can have both, but as this comments section proves I’m afraid a cause as noble as feminism is capable been dumbed down to the point of being irrational (at least in its far reaching extremity). At this point, between the woman and the “gentleman”, I think there’s only one minority.
An interesting tidbit. The practice of walking on the street side of the sidewalk actually originates from medieval times. The reasoning is that during the day people would empty their chamber pots out of the second story windows into the street. As anyone knows that lives in a city you can avoid some rain by walking right up against a building so the person whom was walking on the outside of the sidewalk towards the street was more likely to get excrement poured on them. Think about that next time you worry about getting wet from a car splashing you.
Putting on her coat. Helping her take it off is also a Plus. But if you can get to the coat rack first, after a date , pick hers up and help her with it before taking yours.
Reblogged this on Secrets In this Jewel.
Great article! I couldn’t agree more!
http://bigfatlovestory.weebly.com (10 creative date ideas)
Chivalry is dead…because women killed it – Dave Chapelle
You can’t want equality in all aspects and then want special treatment as well. Either we’re an equal team or you’re a special case. You don’t get to have both. Both parties should treat their significant others as king or queens but that doesn’t mean you have to be a servant.
Exactly. Chivalry implies women get special treatment and privileges just for being a woman. They are now getting exactly what they asked for, equality, but they expected to get equality when it was good for them and also to keep their special privileges, and when they realize it does’t work like that, they write blog posts like this.
This post was written by a man…
That being said, a lot of woman agree. I, for one, don’t. I do not expect to be treated any way because I’m a woman. I only expect respect for being a person.
I don’t want special treatment. I want equality. Some women want to cook your dinner in exchange for a door being opened. Other women don’t. Maybe learn to not see 150 billion people as one uniform stereotype.
[…] James Michael Sama / 2 weeks ago […]
I’ve noticed lately more 17/18 year olds holding doors for people. My daughters boyfriend opens doors, carry some bags, even starts her car and pumps her gas when they are together. He saw me stop for gas the other day and stopped to pump mine as well. Chivalry isn’t dead.
What a sweet kid!
THANK YOU!!! THANK YOU!!! THANK YOU!!! There is still hope.
Interesting. Admittedly, I am from an older generation. But, seeing the picture of the guy’s hand on her bare knee, I expected to see a comment about uninvited familiarity or public displays of intimacy not being chivalrous. Did not see it. So, I guess if she bares the knee, that is an invitation to touch?
…? A photo of a man’s hand on a woman’s knee means that it is a photo of a man’s hand on a woman’s knee.
Nothing more, nothing less.
I’m from a younger generation but I absolutely agree with you. The picture is too provocative and is not classy or chivalrous. True Gentlemen don’t just open doors they protect hearts and bodies. They keep the touching of bare skin on the legs for a marriage commitment! Pictures do say something. It’s not just a picture of a mans hands on a woman’s knees just like it’s not a picture of a young nan keeping his seat while a lady stands. Pictures show actions and actions speak of heart issues!
“Man” not nan (correction to typo above)
Well said.
In the picture, it looks as if the two are a well dressed couple on a date. He’s in a suit. She seems to be in a typical “little black dress” that comes to knee length when standing. However, when we sit, our dresses don’t stay at the same length. She has her arms wrapped around his arm, and his hand is resting on her knee. Just looks like a simple show of affection to me, nothing “provocative” about it.
Would you like me to get longer tablecloths to cover the legs of the table darlin?
I’m 26 years old, and I actually thought the same thing as you. It was definitely an odd picture to have in an article on chivalry.
Sorry, couldn’t possibly disagree more. Her hands are clasped around his arm and his hand is on her knee – is this not a common position of a couple sitting somewhere at an event or even at home?
Maybe it’s just my girlfriend and I who are affectionate with each other like this.
@James Michael Sama – Though I disagree with the premise of your original post, I agree that the couple are simply displaying affection for each other and nothing more.
I’m thinking the man’s hand on the knee was a homage to women having knee jerk reactions to this topic.
+1
How about we bring back the murdering and bloodshed that always accompanied chivalry.
Perhaps you should read the definition of the word chivalry.
methinks that you are unfamiliar with chivalry. Bradley got it right.
What Josh said. The roots of “chivalry” has nothing to do with opening doors or putting your jacket over a puddle.
Flat out… respect for each other is key in every relationship and for all human relationships. Teaching this through being that example will go a long way for changing what we can become as a community.
Want to really be chivalrous? Show some respect for the authority of fathers to protect their daughters and call her dad and ask him if he minds if you spend time alone with her on a “date”? Ask his permission to get to know his daughter for the purpose of marriage. Commitment is dead too as well as regard for parental authority.
When his daughter is not 18 and living at home, it just implies that you don’t value her agency and autonomy. I dumped a few guys for trying the whole “your dad” bit. And my dad thought it was dumb and told them to talk to me because I could speak for myself. Reading these comments, I realize I lucked out in the dad department.
[…] or Feminism? Saw this article. 8 Acts Of Chivalry To Bring Back | James Michael Sama It bothers me more than it would have a few years ago. Yes, I hold the door for anyone behind me. […]
I think most people fundamentally misunderstand what Chivalry was about. It wasn’t about holding doors or pulling out chairs, it was about women being property. Be a real man comes the closest to it when it suggests that a man ask permission of a woman’s father to date his daughter rather than asking the woman herself. The reason we can’t have both Chivalry and Feminism is because they are not compatible, and this isn’t actually a problem for people who aren’t afraid of women. You say Chivalry, what you mean is respect.
Yes, this!
Respect for everyone. It’s kindness and respect if a person opens a door for a person who can’t open it, or gives up their seat for a person who needs it more.
It becomes chivalry and sexism when men are expected to do things for any woman just because she’s a woman. We can’t have chivalry and feminism because of what you say, and also because it gives special privileges to women and makes men subservient to them.
I don’t know any women who would object to these. I believe they are mythological creatures lumped in with feminists, but I’ve never spoken with a female who hates kindness towards her.
I would love more guys to act this way and I’m a feminist. Feminism is just wanting equal rights and opportunities (atleast to me). Just because you want equal pay for equal work doesn’t mean you don’t enjoy kindness and signs that someone wants to make you feel special.
Exactly.
We just had a discussion about this at work. The reason why chivalry isn’t around much is because its almost useless. Women want men who are gentlemen, yet date assholes. If women stopped dating guys who treated them like shit and beat them, guess what. Men would change the way they acted. On the flip side most guys who are nice and do things get used and ignored. Theyre called Thirsty, desperate an annoying. This is why Chivalry is almost dead. Also, The fact of men walking on the street-side of a sidewalk. This was done because people used to dump trash out of their windows. Ladies would then be showered in garbage and not the man.
Now that is just not true. I’ve never wanted or dated a bad boy, and I know very few women who do. Neither do I use men or toy with their hearts. Maybe it’s the circles you are running in?
Bella, you sound like the film critic Pauline Kael after Nixon’s reelection in 1972. Kael couldn’t understand how Nixon had won in a landslide because nobody she knew voted for him.
No, it’s because most self-labeled “nice guys” are only being nice to get something, so their “niceness” comes with an expectation (or ten) – most of which are laid out here by various self-proclaimed “nice guys”. It’s not genuine and women pick up on that and start rejecting the “niceness” to avoid the accompanying obligations the guy will start pushing on them (in ways that he thinks are subtle, of course). Also playing into your discussion’s topic, both men and women tend to choose opposites, so initially the rule-followers find the rule-breakers exciting, and date their opposite, which means the good girls date the rebellious guys and the good guys date the rebellious girls. It’s a trend that tends to reverse itself with a few heartbreaks and some maturity, and you seen the genuinely good guys (who rarely label themselves that, actually) ending up long-term with the good girls. Saw it in my dating days, and with all of my younger sibs. There will always be men who have issues and seek out inappropriate partners (and women who do the same), but they aren’t the majority.
I for one am glad chivalry is dead, now it can be replaced with respect, and human to human kindness.
I have always felt incredibly uncomfortable when men or boys treated me like a “lady” because it doesn’t end there, they expect me to act a certain way to be worthy of their chivalry. I know this is anecdotal, but that’s why I said “I for one”
I just want others to treat me kindly as I treat them, and like an individual, who may appreciate a seat given up for her, or sometimes really wants to stand and be left alone.
This goes for anyone I have many times given up a seat for a man who obviously needed it more than I, I have even given my jacket (it was big enough) to a man that was colder than I was.
Good comment. That’s how it should be, respect and kindness for humans, not based on gender.
I disagree with the part of they expecting you to be worthy of their chivarly. If there are expectations on their behaviors, there should be an expectation on the recipient’s behavior as well.
Expectations for everyone or for no one,.
I completely agree. It always comes with expectations in my experience, and the more fluff the guy makes about you being a “lady” and him being a “gentleman,” the bigger and ruder the imposition that’s coming. And god forbid you forget about their presence and expectations long enough to do something they consider unladylike (and you’re also expected to psychically know what those things are and care enough to adhere to their standards). Because once they’ve established that you’re NOT a lady by their judgment, the filthy stories and rudeness reach heights that have other men coming over and asking if you’re okay, or restaurant staff asking him to please restrain his voice and not use that language. Whereas guys who maybe grab a door or let you grab a door and maybe offer a coat when it’s cold, but don’t make a big issue of it, generally remain fairly civil and well-behaved regardless of how you behave. Which I find much much preferable. I understand that some women prefer something different, but I can’t for the life of my understand why. Their choice, though.
I agree with these! I have one suggestion. Under the compliments section: don’t just tell her she’s beautiful. Tell her she’s bright, funny and talented. Tell her she’s a wonderful mother/wife/girlfriend. Compliments on her external beauty are wonderful, but compliments on her internal beauty and intelligence last so much longer and make her external beauty shine from the inside out!
That is, compliment her in such as way if she is actually any of those things to you. Don’t say her poop doesn’t stink when she obviously just ate a bean burrito. Real compliments based on real assets go the farthest, as eventually she may realize you are lying to get into her good graces. And by good graces, I mean her pants.
In the south, these manners are taught from the time we are very young. We still say “yes Ma’am”
and “no Sir”. We also wave at people we don’t even know while driving. We greet people while passing them anywhere… in a store or on the sidewalk. We speak to people when we enter a lobby or waiting room, “How are y’all doing?” We say, “Excuse me” if we bump into someone. We say, “Bless you” when someone sneezes. All of these things show we care about others and make the world a little nicer place to live in. It is all about respect and caring for others.
Chivalry never died. It just went the same place being ladylike went.
Chivalry was a code of conduct for knights in medieval times. It certainly is not some edict handed down from God about interaction between the sexes.
It’s my personal opinion that a woman who believes she should get any special respect simply because of that extra X chromosome is simply wrong. All these things are fine to do but they are things we should all do for each other.
By the way, the code of chivalry was largely about caring for the weak, including women children and the elderly.
I love it when people hold the door open for me but I go ahead and hold the next one for them. And as a young, capable woman, I have no expectation of a seat on public transport. I wouldn’t let someone give it up for me either. That’s just silliness.
If these acts are about serving someone as a person, they are fine and good. If they are about serving a woman for the sake of her feminist, it’s benovelent sexism which benefits no one. That’s how I feel.
Benevolent sexism for the woman, bad sexism for the man who is put in a subservient inferior position. Otherwise, a round of applause for your comment.
Thrice huzzah for this article. Being a gentleman has nothing to do with chauvenism; it’s a sign of unselfishness and respect for another being.
I dig chivalry, I like being chivalrous. I take pride in it. But chivalry, which is a sign of respect, to some degree, is earned.
Perhaps the same generation of women who grew up watching Sex and the City and learning and practicing that women can “F*ck like a man” should look in the mirror, and ask themselves not where the chivalry went, but what ever happened to acting like a “lady”?
I would contest that they are just as rare as gentlemen.
As far as the compliments go there is an art to it:
Make sure the compliments are true.
Try to compliment more on character than on looks (e.g. I like that you’re confident). It’s nice to be told you’re beautiful but always commenting on looks instead of character gets old and fake.
This probably is a case by case basis but I’m very ok with my boyfriend complimenting another woman (respectfully of course) that is not me. In fact, I like when he tells my friends they’re pretty or is giving a pep talk to them saying ‘You are worth more than that guy you’re dating, you’re smart, pretty and funny.’
The more racy compliments (e.g. I like your hot ass), are reserved for serious relationships and is gross from strangers or any non significant other.
I agree and try to follow these types of rules in my every day life. I have one question. If I am about to hold the door open for someone and the door opens to the inside of the building, do I step in front of the person, open the door and step inside to hold the door or lean in and let the person nudge past me?
You could open the door and lean on it enough to keep it open. This allows the person for whom you are holding the door to enter first.
The article is good, but the picture showing too much of a girl’s upper leg and the guy’s hand resting on her bare knee is inappropriate and doesn’t fit with the ideal of chivalry at all.
Her arms are wrapped around his, they are clearly mutually affectionate towards each other. Is affection inappropriate?
It depends on how you define affectionate, whether or not a couple is married (yes, I believe that certain types of touching should only be between married couples), and what is considered appropriate in public. A true gentleman wouldn’t touch a lady in this manner in public (and not at all if she wasn’t his wife), and a true lady wouldn’t allow it in public. But then, a true lady wouldn’t be wearing a skirt this short or baring that much of her upper leg in public anyway. It has to do with morals and modesty.
We find ourselves incredibly far apart on this opinion, Diana.
I’m sorry if you feel that in 2014 a skirt/dress above the knee is “this short” or that a true lady wouldn’t dress in this manner.
I also find it interesting that you think a hand on a knee is inappropriate touching in public. We must agree to disagree, I’m afraid.
My old boyfriend, would open my door first and seat me and then go sit down in the driver seat. I mean, its the thought, nothing wrong with being respectful 😀 Plus, makes you feel fancy 😛
@James Michael Sama – For such a permissive society, I’m astonished at the amount of prissiness that I see today in posts such as Diana’s. It’s mutual affection, plain and simple and something for which to strive. Also, I’m continually amazed that so many women, like Diana, claim to know what a true gentleman is or what a real man is.
Are you implying that the treatment a fellow human deserves is based on the length of that person’s bottoms?
I’m going to start honking at men wearing ankle pants and no socks and shouting inappropriate epithets at them. If they wanted my respect, they’d dress like gentlemen. I only smile at men who wear pants longer than their ankle bones.
Ridiculous.
I see the illustration for this article as meaning if you act like a gentleman, you’re allowed to start your way up her thigh.
Unfortunately a lot of women aren’t ladies.
Very true, and a lot of men aren’t gentlemen. That shouldn’t prevent folks from doing what is right anyway, though. If we treat others with respect, we’re more likely to be treated with respect, and we are certainly more likely to respect ourselves if we treat others right.
Diana, the difference is that too many women still expected to be treated like ladies, even though they aren’t. Men are at least honest about what they are.
Bob, no, men who are not gentlemen still expect to be treated a certain way by women. Your posts would be exhibit A.
I’ll probably get a lot of flack for saying this, but as someone who has grown up in the country/suburbs but works as a social worker in the cities, when I open the door or give up my seat for someone, they notice and are thankful. This is simply how I was raised so it seems second nature to behave in this manner. When I am in the city, it has been MY experience that it is MUCH more likely that doors will not be opened, seats will not be given up, etc. probably because some parental figure has not demonstrated through their lifestyle the importance of being mindful of others. There are some wonderful mothers and fathers out there and I think we can all agree that teaching children manners and respect takes time and effort. Sometimes it is an easily forgotten task. We shouldn’t assume that someone had malicious intentions when chivalry is not displayed – many times people have simply not been taught or encouraged to act this way. However, as an adult, I believe it is our responsibility to encourage respectful behavior and I believe that includes putting others before yourself simply because it is the right thing to do. If you have a problem with people being courteous, you have too much time on your hands and need to get out there and understand the terrible situations some people are living under!
A big part of the reason why men don’t do these things any more is illustrated by some of the comments from feminists. Not only do some women today not appreciate such acts of chivalry, but they are incapable of simply politely saying, “I’d prefer if you didn’t do that”, but instead must become screaming harpies yelling about sexism. I’ve seen cases where feminists reported a co-worker for “sexual harassment” because he opened a door for her.
That’s why I try to make little gestures like this whenever possible. Non-feminist women see it as a sign of respect, and feminist women are grossly offended. Win-win.
🙂
I must admit that I never thought of that. Chivalry with a subversive edge. Interesting.
I’m a feminist who has her door opened and I’ve never once been offended. In fact, I’ve opened doors for a massive number of both men and women in my lifetime and not once has anyone said or done anything rude. It’s quite common. Perhaps you live in a non-western culture?
Where did you see a coworker reported for sexual harassment for opening a door? That’s not a case that a company would take seriously and anyone who reported something that trivial as her sole evidence of harassment would be on the next round of firing as a potential troublemaker/lawsuit for the company. (as all women are acutely aware). Without more details, I would have to believe there was more to that story.
Gross generalization and exaggeration without full facts. I’d prefer if you didn’t do that.
Unless your handicapped or pregnant, a woman is perfectly capable of standing up on a bus or train. Many men have physical labor jobs and are exhausted after 8 hrs, so while many women have a sit down job, they should not get mad if a man doesnt give up their seat to them as the man might be extremely exhausted. They dont get mad when other women dont give them their seat.
I’m sorry, but did you just go from not-sexist to very-sexist in two seconds flat? Women are perfectly capable of standing…but it’s because so many of us have desk jobs? I work on my feet for 16+ hours a day at two different jobs. Please don’t assume when I get onto any public transport wearing a button-up shirt and slacks that I have a “desk-job”.
(Side note, I’m not upset when a man doesn’t give up his seat for me; I get upset when he doesn’t give it up to those who need it just because he’s tired. If I can stand for an extra 30-min to an hour after working multiple shifts out of respect for another human being, stranger or not, being tired is not a valid excuse.)
I bet if an attractive women in high heels came on a bus or train, you would be like oh well, your butt is about to stand for 30 minutes, why should i give my seat up to you. If a man does it people are looking at him with the side eye as to why he has not offered her his seat. I took public transport all the time and I would hear women mouthing off that there are no gentlemen simply because they saw other women standing, while met were sitting down.
Maybe Im not a gentleman, but Like I said before unless your pregnant, old or disabled, or I know you, you are a human being and can stand.
Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man.
A woman is not inherently weak, nor is she property. She does not need to be coddled, protected from the world, checked out from her parents like a library book, not held accountable for her actions, and expected to be incapable of taking care of herself. All these statements in the above article would be much more suited to respecting people in general, and not just women. I hold doors for people because it is a nice thing to do, especially if they are struggling with it. Maybe they have an injury or disability. Being a woman is not a disability. I do not automatically assume that someone should be put on a cushioned pedestal merely because they are a certain gender. A woman is not a prize show dog. When I open a door for someone I hope that I made them happy, and served as a good example of human kindness which they may reciprocate to another in the future.
Frequently as a woman my capabilities are disrespected in the name of chivalry. Men will open doors for me, but not for the next man. Men will help me up, but not for the next man. Men will give flowers, but never get flowers themselves. Men will stop and offer to help me with an automotive issue, but won’t stop if they see only my man struggling with the same issue, though we are equally capable of the task. Why am I assumed to be incapable? Why are men assumed to be more capable? I appreciate people with strength and try to be a good example of it for both genders.
Men will still call me “Sweetie” or “Honey” or “Dear” in a professional setting. I am not being treated nicely, I am being disrespected. You are treating me with condescending sexual pandering. Are we dating? No? Then don’t call me your sweetie. Do not assume that because I am a woman that I surely do not have any automotive knowledge. Unfortunately we do allow women to be mechanically ignorant by rushing to do it for them throughout their lives. It becomes expected to coddle a woman as unwilling to get their hands dirty with menial labor, and anyone that allows it must surely be the a—hole. I see my man disrespected because he respects my capabilities. “Why are you doing that? Wasn’t there a man there to do it for you?” or “What are you doing? That’s man’s work.” I have been asked all of these. They are all chauvinism under the guise of chivalry.
Many mothers teach their young men to act towards women in a way they themselves wish they were treated. I have overheard a woman chiding her young son in a market with “Remember, Carlos. Women are always right.” It’s a vagina, not a Pope hat. Having a vagina does not make you infallible nor does it obligate you to a golden throne of superiority. A woman should never use her sexuality as a tool to get what she wants. A woman should not be brought up to disrespect her own sexuality as a shameful thing to put under lock and key. A vagina is not an object to be won. A vagina is not an altar with which you place gifts before in the hopes for its blessing. It is a gift to be given freely to those you love and trust enough to receive it. A good dick is as worthy of praise and a good vagina. Most people will try to get away with whatever you let them get away with. Thus I see women frequently acting terribly chauvinist by demanding to be treated like royalty while using their men as a foot stool. Why? Because the foot stool allows it. The foot stool thinks if they point out that the emperor has no clothes, they probably won’t get laid. The emperor hates being held accountable, even when they are absolutely wrong. “Yes Dear.” is the calling card of a foot stool that thinks their partner is too weak to tolerate being held accountable. Power plays and subterfuge are counter to having a stable relationship.
A good man has a spine. A good man does not allow anyone to be disrespected, including themselves, and certainly does not expect a woman to be an inferior incapable child which needs to be coddled. A good man is desired for his qualities, is a worthy equal, and does not have to crawl on his knees to get laid. Treat others how you would want to be treated, and it will return to you in kind. If it does not, that person is not worth your efforts. Love is a two way street. Be nice to each other, but don’t let someone, even your partner, disrespect you. My man and I do equal amounts of work and show equal amounts of affection. We love each other. We respect each other. We stand on a pedestal together. We bow to no one.
The problem I see with chivalry is the common assumptions on either side. The receiving women believe they are being treated so well because they are being put on a pedestal as a superior gender deserving worship. The men, however, are lead to believe that women are incapable of, or shouldn’t be allowed to do, all the things they have been trained they must do to be a worthy man. BOTH sides are often being chauvinist. Both sides are pandering to an old stereotype. Both sides are being disrespectful of the other gender. If you can come to a clear agreement of the tasks expected of both sides, that’s fine, but let it be open and discussed. Let it be known that you do not think the other is incapable of anything, but choose your responsibilities fairly and equally. “Because I’m a woman” Is no excuse for lack of equality. Let me repeat that being a women is not a disability.
Let us not bring chivalry back. Let us start respecting each other as equals, for the first time in history.
I’m sorry you’ve been a victim of all those experiences and beliefs that have made you so bitter and determined to keep everything at bay. As for the rest of us who still believe that treating a Lady properly and NOT as property will continue to so and hopefully those actions will be of good to someone. Good day.
Apparently you only skimmed what I wrote. I apologize for writing an in depth response to an article designed for quick digestion and knee jerk reactions. Let me break it down concisely and let’s hold those knees. My stated goal here is instead of only asking that men treat women nicely, a man (and women!) should also treat *everyone* nicely. I’m sorry if you didn’t understand, and somehow assume asking for gentlemanly behavior from everyone equally somehow makes me “bitter and determined to keep everything at bay.” Thank you for proving my point by not taking this woman seriously, not reading what I had to say about gender equality, and then coloring me as a feminazi. And thank you for, in effect, summarizing my post, in which I spent some time on in the hopes of maturing some minds, for quick skimmers which in no way reflects what I wrote. Now, let us go try being chivalrous to a transvestite. We’ll ease you into being nice to more than just women, and hold onto that jerky knee for you…… just like in this article’s picture. *gasp* Well played, author. Well played. BWAHAHA. Good day. *drops mic*
@voaclvarieties: “bitter?” “determined to keep everything at bay?” Where are you getting this from? Certainly not the post directly above yours–who are you responding to?
I read the full comment and agree.
I’ve also experienced every situation from a professional situation you described at a variety of employers across a few different industries during my decades in the workforce. It’s fairly common.
Great post.
Just a thought: throughout history, pedestals have held objects, not people. A person would not be able to balance more than a few moments on your average pedestal.
Agree. It also reduces the person on the pedestal to an object, which does not act, but is acted upon. People who are seen as fully people are seen as the actors, with the agency and autonomy to act, while objects are the subjects of their action, or the actees. Forcing people into the actee role because of their gender is a problem.
My wife asked me while we were dating why I insisted on walking street side. It’s good to see articles and ideas like this. Thanks!
“Chivalry!—why, maiden, she is the nurse of pure and high affection—the stay of the oppressed, the redresser of grievances, the curb of the power of the tyrant —Nobility were but an empty name without her, and liberty finds the best protection in her lance and her sword.”
My husband and I have been married for over 16 years. He does the things listed in the article for me still, after having been together for nearly 20 years. He doesn’t do them because he thinks I’m weak. He does them because he loves me and that’s one of his ways of showing it. I love that he takes the extra moment to be so considerate. I’m a fairly strong minded woman: served in the military for nearly 10 years, served in public office, Mom of 4 – I’m not weak. I do appreciate his thoughtfulness.
Reblogged this on Tears create rainbows in our hearts and commented:
I love this piece. Common courtesy + common sense = chivalry. I just wondered why it is said to be “COMMON” when the practice is so “RARE”. Ah, what a paradox!
Love these – solid gold advice for any man! I know sometimes men complain that when they DO try these the gal might get defensive or not know how to respond (perhaps because it happens so rarely and is no longer part of popular culture). So I think we ladies need to grow in our receptivity and affirmation when a gentleman DOES try to be chivalrous.
I would like to know where you get statistics on men pulling out chairs?
Probably from where he sits down.
You can’t expect men to be completely egalitarian and be “chivalrous” at the same time. You actually literally can’t do that. If you really want equal expectations in the workplace and in social settings, you might have to give up some things like letting us pull out your chair, opening doors, or expecting non stop compliments. Am i saying that men shouldn’t be generous? No, of course I don’t think that. Men should open doors and give compliments, but only occasionally, to do so all the time makes women seem as one that always needs assistance, as one who can’t, or shouldn’t, act for herself. This is not the case. However, some of the points of the original article are valid, Men should give women their seat, or walk her to her door, because that is what you should do for literally everybody. Man or woman, if they are less capable than you, you should give your seat, because to not do so would make you a jerk. The ultimate point, women need to stop expecting men to be egalitarian and chivalrous, but overall men should stop being jerks. We’re both in the wrong, but no one wants to admit it.
I’m one of a few women here saying that we are more than happy to give up having chairs pulled out, opened doors, and (usually condescending) compliments in the workplace. Please please please feel free to stop doing those things if it means I’ll get the same consideration and respect and immediate assumption of potential and ambition that male colleagues tend to. Easiest trade ever.
If we all started with common courtesy – treating others as we’d like to be treated – this wouldn’t be a problem. Having someone treat me with courtesy or concern doesn’t make me weak or infirm – it makes one feel taken care of. Either gender appreciates kindness or thoughtfulness. If someone gets defensive when I attempt to be courteous, I feel sorry for them, apparently they expect to be treated poorly.
I’d argue one of the main reasons you see less and less “gentlemen” is because more and more men are waking up to the fact that being “nice, kind and chivalrous” doesn’t get you laid. On the other hand, being an ass DOES get you laid – not being chivalrous, not holding the door open, not calling or texting back, showing up late to dates if at all, no flowers, no chocolates, no limos and definitely no compliments. Displaying the “i’m a bad boy and I don’t give a shit” type of attitude is what does work. Every time I tried being the chivalrous nice guy, I got shit on, every…single…time. What happened when I was taught to stop being nice and start being a jerk? The most beautiful women I’d seen in my life started paying attention to me.
Plus, how often are we bombarded with your typical feminist mantras like, “Oh, I’m strong, independent, capable, I don’t need a man, blah blah blah”? If women don’t need men, then they can open their own doors.
Crass, but I agree with you on everything except the bad behavior paying off. It pays off with a certain set of issues that some girls do have – but then you’re left with the issues, and that tends to create bitter, unhappy men as well. Some men have a preference for women with those issues, so I guess it all works out for them eventually. Your choice, I guess.
You’re right though – women can open their own doors. No prob.
[…] I’m so grateful that my husband is one of them. I’ve attached the blog post from Michael Sama who wrote the article I loved. Tell me below what is your favorite act of chivalry and click on […]
I don’t know if this is a common chivalry practice, but along with opening the door for a lady, I either let her walk into the building/house/store/etc first, or upon exiting, I walk out the place first and then hold the door.
Guess the reason I do this is that I want to show her that the place I’m leading her into is safe, but on the other hand, going out into an unpredictable environment, I want to make sure to try and shield her from it.
Even when I was a little girl, I was taught to do those things for my elders. I open doors for anyone who needs the help and some who don’t need help. On the subject of chivalry, I think both men & women need to drop the swearing in public. I hate it when I get on an elevator and guys are talking sports, or their dates or their jobs and the swear words just pour out of their mouths. Many women are just as bad. Also ladies and gentlemen, kindly put your phones away and have real conversations with people. Yes, I’m a little old lady in my 60’s so you think I’m out dated. Well, I don’t think manners are wrong no matter how old or young a person is.
This article should be called ‘what most southern Dads teach their sons’.
I agree with all but the first one. I can only accept that one conditionally.
When I take the train to work, there are scores of people and dozens of women. Who do I give my seat up to? The most attractive one? There’s no way to do this that isn’t sexist. Those women are going to work just like I am. I’m not on a date with them; I’m not trying to have sex with them. If anything they are my peers. Giving up a seat for a peer who doesn’t need it any more than I is silly and awkward.
Now If I’m on a date and there’s only one seat, of course the lady gets it. Or if an older lady, or man for that matter, enters the train, or someone with a disability or a baby, that person gets my seat. It’s about being a conscientious gentleman, not an opportunistic douche-bag.
Bald Eagle out!
why should men be chivalrous? imean women wanted equality right? well here you go then…open your own doors and pull out your own seats. men aren’t going to give you any more favors.
I married my husband 15 years ago. He does several of these things and is teaching them to our sons. To this day, he still drops me off at the door and then goes and parks. I am more than capable of opening my own door when necessary, but it is quite nice when someone does it for you to show they care.
This has nothing to do with equality in the world.
I whole heartedly agree with Joyce. It’s about love, honor, respect and protection not favors. Men cannot be by a women’s sides all of the time and while it is good for women to be independent, when the men in our lives are around it is SO refreshing when they do open a door or walk closer to the side walk. Men show they notice and they are being gentlemen and it is important to teach it to children/boys. Women have so many other responsibilities to tackle in this crazy world like being constantly hitting on, talked to badly, pursued by unwelcome advances and we often have to balance these things with OUR equal rights during work and our living environments without losing confidences or getting ruffled. It is very nice and welcomed when men in our circles can show decorum because they know too well how inappropriate the real world can be when it comes to men and behavior.
Yes it does
I already do most all of these things without even thinking, but dropping my girlfriend off at the door while I go park feels wrong, because what if something were to happen while she waits and I’m not there?
To quote Chris Rock: “Chivalry is dead. And you know who killed it? You did, ladies.”
Do you do the same for things for him or somehow you feel entitled to this kind of treatment for the good old days sake?To be equals you have to be treated equally.
Women do different things for men, like bring out the snacks and beer on game days and poker nights, do a few choice things in the bedroom, and multitask your forgottens so that you don’t fall behind. Don’t pretend that women wanting equal pay without the added sexual harassment is the reason for your own laziness. If women are at fault in any way, it’s because they’ve stopped expecting common decency.
Chase, I agree. Safety in numbers. And I also would get bored and cold standing outside waiting for my guy to park and meet me. Much better to have slightly sore feet and good company.
Why should I, as a man, be chivalrous? Because I’m a man, not a petulant child snarking about how women are getting what’s coming to them.
your single right?
Thank you Mark,, Doing these things does show care & respect, and it’s a good quality I find rare in most men today. Keep it up.
For real – thank you for your truth comment.
Nessie- Probably not for long if he’s got that attitude. Way to be a real man, Mark! 🙂
Don’t be a damn fool, Mark. All they want is for men to kiss their rear ends. Need a woman? RENT ONE! It will cost you less money and cause you less trouble.
And it is men like you who are grown and thoughtful of others instead of acting the petulant child who keep the new generations inspired! Thank you on behalf of my three sons who have learned these same traits, the ones that their dad used to do for all the women in his ife before he passed. You, sir, are a good example!
Thank you Mark for being one of the few men on here not making a misogynistic, trolling response. It is appreciated. Truthfully, I don’t care too much about chivalry, I just want more men to stop being so nasty all the time. Too much to ask for, apparently.
I agree with Blue.
Because we should be men and not sissy’s and wimps!! I real man is a gentleman, chivalrous, not afraid to show emotions and not afraid of what others think. You can still do all these things and be a man at the same time..hey a guy is still a guy! listen to brad paisley’s son.
Thank you, michael. :o)
well said!
and this here is why your girl is around the corner sneaking around with the douchebag that has 20 inch biceps
Excellent Michael! Yes we all know Zero (what an appropriate name) John & moses (and the loser chris rock) are single.
It all part of the lost “art” called respect! its a shame self-center lil pukes of today werent taught that by their parents.
and as for the few bitter angry ”feminists” who get insulted when I hold open the door for them the best lien I heard when the y ask “are you holding the door for me because Im a woman” I say NO Im holding the door open because Im a gentleman
I’ll hold a door open for anyone behind me, man or woman, because I’m not an asshole. If it’s convenient, I’ll pull out a date’s chair for them, because that *always* makes me look good. But I’ll be damned if I’m gonna give up a seat on a bus for a woman just because she’s a woman. If she’s in heels and clearly uncomfortable, I might. If she’s holding a child or is pregnant, I’ll always give up my seat. But for a woman in seemingly good health that is just as able to stand as I am? Hell no. You people want equality, well equality encompasses both the good and the bad. Take it or leave it.
I am 71 years old, a former disabled Army Combat Officer, have cancer in the liver and bones it makes it difficult for me to stand and I do all these things and more for my wife, daughters, and any woman when and if the occasion arises! Equality has nothing to do with it, my dignity as a man has everything to do with it!
I like your reasoning.
I’m a woman, Austin, and I agree with you on that one. I certainly appreciate it, but I always say, “No, thank you.” when a man offers me a seat on the subway. He’s probably had just as long a day as mine. That really doesn’t make any sense to me.
I agree with you completely Austin. I would not give up my seat on a bus or train to a random woman just because she’s a woman. I would, however, give up my seat to an elderly person, regardless of gender, or to a person that just looks like they may have some medical condition that would seemingly cause them pain to remain standing. But to just give my seat to a woman because she’s a woman, pshhh. I also hold open doors for whoever is behind me or whomever is coming out as I’m entering. I think it’s just silly to do it for a woman just because she’s a woman.
I’d never expect a random man to do any of these things for me, but I’ll tell you, if there is one seat on the subway and MY guy takes it, it is a mark against him. I wouldn’t have taken the seat because I would want us to be close or at least at eye level while we talk, so if he helps himself, it says something about how he views my company.
Austin, I agree. To be honest, I personally don’t know of any women who have a problem standing on a bus or subway. No need to be defensive 🙂
Chivalry has NOTHING to do with equality. Look up the definition of the word.
Tell that to the feminists.
I don’t mind standing if she doesn’t mind kneeling.
I think I know why your spike is rusty, Rusty.
I would technically agree with your assertion. However, chivalry was born out of a time when there was not equality and woman conformed to gender roles. In this time of equality the “perks” of being a man are no longer there, so why should they be there for women?
I don’t believe chivalry should disappear just because a woman is a feminist. For one thing, not all of us are. There are still Ladies who would be very receptive to chivalry and appreciative of the caring and respect of a gentleman. For a man to care enough to make the effort is very manly and certainly wins my heart. Mark isn’t saying to give up a seat for any woman. He is saying to give up a seat for the elderly or someone who looks like they’re struggling. I’ve done that and believe we all should be aware of people around us.
@ John, feminists are the ones saying the chivalry is the opposite of equality.
The women demanding chivalry generally aren’t self-identifying as feminists.
And that is why you are a zero
No, he’s just smart.
You, sir, are a jerk.
No, he sees things as they actually are. I hope you like cats.
That is why the name Zero fits you so well!
I am probably nibbling at bait right now, as this seems SO MUCH an appropriate User Name for such a post. But on the slightest (and saddest) possibility that you were actually serious; know it or not, many women who would come by the knowledge of your expressed opinion will probably easily guess that moniker of yours. Good luck, friend (or BAZINGA….you got me!).
I have to partially agree we can’t demand equal treatment and special treatment at the same time. At the same time I don’t see why people can’t do these things for each other regardless of gender. I can understand giving up a seat to a senior, disabled, or a pregnant woman, but I wouldn’t expect a man to give up his seat or pull out my chair just because I have a vagina. That same man would probably feel embarrassed if a woman did the same for him. I don’t understand why in these times we still feel the need for gender specific roles. It’s no longer necessary.
Yes. It is necessary. We women have roles. Men have roles. That’s not something of the times. It’s biological.
I’m so sick of the feminist attitude AND the accompanying whiney male attitude. Men, be men. Women, be women. Life is much easier that way.
EXACTLY! I always open a door for someone if they are behind me, regardless of the gender. It is just common courtesy. I don’t expect men to treat me any differently because I am a woman but it is always nice to see someone go the extra mile regardless of the gender or who it is for. Giving up your seat for anyone is a kind thing to do. What I find frustrating is that when you are walking anywhere with someone and one of you moves closer or behind the other person so there is enough walking space for the other person to pass except the person that accompanies them NEVER moves! I just moved for both of you and you can’t move in the slightest? What happened to common courtesy? That is what is dead here.
Pat, your bleating circles back to Chris Rock’s line about who caused the death of chivalry. Your solipsism prevents you from accepting your share of the responsibility.
Pat. The traditional roles had to go because women didn’t have equal rights. We are trying to break into a new age of enlightenment and equality. Please let it happen.
I agree Jerilyn. You’d think more men would be behind the removal of gender roles, as they so often make a man’s “manliness” dependent on the behavior and choices of women, rather than inherent to the man and his own choices. It’s all very twisted.
When you grow up you will understand.
It has nothing to do with equality, it’s about showing appreciation for your partner. It’s a pity that within the next few generations chivalry will be gone.
So sad how some people in this world think. We are all entitled to our opinions but what happened to good wholesome respectful people? I guess it goes back to the way we were raised and I believe that’s the culprit of the problem! Some Parents aren’t parents anymore by failing to teach good Christian morals and values! Oh and heaven forbid i mention anything involving Christianity. I might offend the devil, lol!
My dear husband does all the above! He says it feels great to be respectful and kind! Shame on all you chauvinistic boys in a man body! You missing out on a great thing! Pride will eventually eat at ya😘
“We are all entitled to our opinions but what happened to good wholesome respectful people?”
In a word Laurie, feminism.
In a word, Bob: Excuse.
A fairly small but loud group of women decided that equality meant caring, respectful actions were actually offensive and a select portion of men latched on to the idea. Sure, why not. If that woman over there says she doesn’t want her date to pick her up at the door, you’re going to honk your horn me. Well, here’s a thought. That woman is probably also never going to go down on her partner because it’s “demeaning” and never cook him a meal. Ever. She’ll disregard his opinion in favor of her own and lend an ear for his problems only when it doesn’t interfere with her own ambition. If you want that kind of equality, then sure. Honk when you get here.
@ Dorothy and Bob, feminists were loud about the right of women to vote, to own property, to have their own bank accounts, etc. You won’t find a lot of feminist literature about men opening doors. Not in the 1800s, not in the 1900s, and not in the 2000s. The vast majority of feminists are asking for equality – to be treated equally – and since men don’t hate other men because other men won’t let these men open their doors for them. So the logic around how women deserve a penalty because they won’t be “ladylike” and “let” these things be done for them (regardless of their own individual needs, wishes, preferences, etc.) is also a sign of inequality. Being treated equally would mean that men who decline an open door are judged the same way that women are when we decline an opened door (assuming that happens – I’ve never seen or heard of it in real life, and I know a lot of good ol’ southern people and a lot of hardcore male and female feminists).
Back in the middle of the 19th century, when feminists began holding conventions in order to organize for feminism, how many chivalrous gentlemen were extending their chivalry towards black women?
Yep. Good choice on the username bud.
i dont understand chivalry in the first place.. everything that its saying is men should be subserviant in order to get her to like him..
How old are you Quinton if I may ask? I know the culture has warred against youth and given them very poor models of true love between the genders. Chivalry is not about being subservient, but about a man being a man to a woman in showing her care, honor and simple decency. Quinton, we never lower ourselves by seeking to lift another up-we can’t help but lift ourselves up in the process.
Van M, a lady is worthy of chivalry. Unfortunately, ladies are a very rare breed today. Women are equal to men, as I’ve heard incessantly for the last three decades. Women want to be equal? So let them be equal. I don’t know how old you are Van M, but I suspect you grew up long ago in a very different time. Whether you like it or not, times have changed and not for the better.
Exactly. And putting a woman on a pedestal is the quickest way for her to lose any attraction she had for you – which of course goes against 50 years of feminist programming, but it’s the truth.
It grew out of a time when (a) women were property, their husbands were chosen by their fathers, husbands could legally beat their wives, women who cheated were killed while men were expected to cheat; (b) there was no birth control, so most women were married off in their early/mid teens, and then spent the majority of their adult life pregnant before dying before or in their 40s; (c) there was no birth control, so the many menstrual cycle-related issues that women today can medicate left non-pregnant women bedridden (migraines, horrific cramps, nausea, etc.) at least 1-2 weeks (the week before and/or the week of a period) a month; (d) there were no feminine hygiene products, so a woman’s monthly severely limited her mobility for 3-7 days a month as well for a variety of obvious reasons (this remains a problem in a few third-world nations today, and there are news articles about the wonderful and sympathetic man who is trying desperately to find a solution after watching his wife and sister struggle). Since women were chattel and nothing more, despised by the church, with zero rights under the law, chivalry arose as a way of pleading and asking that women (mostly only those of the nobility / royalty – peasants were excluded) not be abused too horribly. It was not unlike the pleas by Humane Shelters and Animal Rescues today, asking you to bring your pets in on a cold night, or capture and spay feral cats, or report any dogs that you see chained out in the sun on a hot summers day.
So to ask that men be nice to their human property back then made sense. Today, however, it probably feels onerous and selfish to hear these expectations from a male perspective. And speaking as a woman, most of us have a lifetime of experience in which we’ve learned that, husbands and family members aside, a man who does something for you usually expects you to do something in return, even if it’s just tolerate his vaguely condescending complements after, or let him stare at your backside as you walk through a door that he’s holding. And because most of us have a lot going on, we roll with the punches and put up with it. Doesn’t mean it’s okay or our preferred situation.
Wow. Bet you’re a fun date on a Saturday night. Sheesh. Your pen name fits you perfectly.
If it were that easy zero…women are paid at a rate of 75% or less for performing equal work as a professional in the corporate arena, and we usually take on the requirement of staying home and being primary care givers to young children and aging parents…how convenient to stand upon the principle of equality when it suits you in the finer graces of not being a gentle person.
a real gentlemen would have his priorities in line – not live above his means. So he could afford to have his wife stay home and actually interact and shape the children into real intellectual thinkers that will make something of themselves one day..Thank god for my father
“…women are paid at a rate of 75% or less for performing equal work as a professional in the corporate arena…” Cici, that is rubbish. Why? Because if it were true, no capitalist would ever hire a man because the company would instantly cut their cost of labor by 25% or more, a cost savings that would go directly to the bottom line. So, why doesn’t that happen? I’ll let you ponder that one, but I’ll give you a hint. It’s not sexism.
And that’s why women call you a pig.
women want equality in regards to our thoughts and ability to work outside of the household when it is needed. Men still want to date a “lady” well… we still want to date a “gentlemen”. As stated in the article a man should not do not do these thing because a female “can’t”, but because she is with a man that loves and cares for her and wants her to know (that for him) she is set apart from other women.
i hope this does not read in an offensive or attacking manner. this is merely the personal opinion of a women that has not been treated well by men/males other than her father.
Ann, though you attempt to make your point as kindly as possible, I’m afraid that you come across as one who wants equality except when you don’t.
Emily, nice shart. How many hours did it take for you show us all the endless fount of your wisdom?
Oh. Shut up.
Emily, nice shart. How many hours did it take for you show us all the endless fount of your wisdom?
@ Emily – Bob’s a troll and he’s here to show us what happens when men without manners think they’re “nice guys.” Ignore.
When I was a teenager, I did all that for women. Then the women’s movement came along. When women decided they could live without men during those years, they forfeited those little nice things. Fortunately, men decided that women were more of a burden than anything else. Be careful what you ask for. You might just get it.
Great point Zero.
I can see why your name is Zero…
that’s why your a zero
Chivalry has nothing to do with equality. It is fine that you reject these fine-pointed suggestions; it isn’t about MEN giving ‘any more favors’. Perhaps it’s about females, and whether or not YOU remain in favor. These are very simple, and romantic, ways to set yourself apart. I encourage young lads to heed these suggestions. When you are trying to make your initial impression, these suggestions make that impression.
Diane, while the “young lads” following your advice will be condemned to a life as beta orbiters in the friendzone, Harley McBadboy and Studly McRockbanddrummer will be availing themselves of the favors of today’s women. Your post above is why women should never give dating or relationship advice to men. Women know nothing about it.
I actually agree. I am not an elderly person, so please do not give me your seat. I’m strong enough to stand on my own, thanks. As for doors? If people would just not be jerks, and hold doors for *people* who are right behind them, or whose hands are full, we wouldn’t need “chivalry”, just don’t be a jerk. ALSO — if you are on a first date with a new woman and you walk her to her door without asking her? You’re not being chivalrous, you’re being imposing. That sets up an expectation of a kiss or an invitation in, and if you’ve misread her signals and she doesn’t like you, you have put her in a position where she cannot enter her own home without turning her back on a man who is blocking her way off her own porch. No, that wouldn’t make me feel “safe”, that would make me feel like I need to think long and hard about calling you back.
My husband is into some of these things because they have been ingrained in him. I humor him because it really doesn’t hurt anyone if he walks closer to the street, but he knows very well that I don’t need or want his chivalry. This article claims these actions are not based in chauvanism, but the reasons given are all about providing safety, not ‘making’ women do extra work, etc. That’s what chivalry has always been. “Protecting” the “weaker gender” as a form of “respect”. No thank you.
This.
For the exact same reason that I hold doors open for men regardless of age or capability, when they are approaching it behind me or give up my seat to a person who is elder than I or who may seem to need to sit more than I. It has nothing to do with equality and everything to do with good manners.
Came here to mention the whole gender equality thing and you nailed it.
I personally wouldn’t mind giving up my seat for my own girlfriend, relatives or friends, but not to strangers unless they’re old.
So ladies better quit complaining.
The ladies aren’t the ones complaining. In today’s Web parlance, it’s teh wimmenz.
Actually, it’s mostly Bob that’s here complaining. Enjoy.
You picked an appropriate screen name…as a lady, i think your attitude makes you a “zero”. Thank God the men in my life do not share your ignorance.
What favors have men given women other than a big belly for nine months. And that’s because SHE chose you. She doesn’t have to be with any man if she so chooses. Women are more than capable of doing such simple tasks. We just ask for respect which is very rare today. I speak for most women when I say, any man not willing to respect a women doesn’t deserve a woman at all. Let’s see how long you last.
While every woman wanted and continues to want to be treated with equal dignity, not every woman wanted what has become to be understood as “equal rights”. While some men today will refuse to continue the code of chivalry and to pass it on to other, not every man wants to be consider chivalrous. But no one is compelled to date a person who doesn’t qualify as their idea of a “lady” or a “gentleman”; therefore, Zero, you get what you aim for.
Don’t worry, I know lots of ladies who don’t particularly want most of these things – or who happily return the ones they /do/ want.
I would be uncomfortable if any man, including my husband, pulled out my chair for me, or insisted on always walking next to the street, or made me wait in the car so he could open the door.
On the other hand, I think it’s wonderful to hold doors for people, to compliment them, or to give up your seat for someone who clearly needs to sit. My father drops my mother off at the door – and she does the same, if she’s driving.
If it’s considerate and a sign of a loving relationship, it easily can (and should) go both ways. If it feels weird going both ways, maybe we should consider why that is (hint: it usually has something to do with awkward and hopefully outdated power dynamics).
Completely agree.
I can understand why your screen name is Zero:) Just saying…..
You are an idiot 🙂
And women can raise their own children, right? Forget the fact, that this produces a cycle of issues with the next generation. (and by the way…I have been a single mom of 2 children for the past 8 years with a father/ ex husband that decided we could do it on our own so I kinda know what I’m talking about.) I’ll admit, the Women’s Lib thing has gone too far but …. We have evolved past performing these acts for women because “they can’t do it themselves.” It’s just about respect…not “doing us favors”.
why? because equality means you still make more money than us for the same jobs and there still hasn’t been a female president. so maybe scale down your chivalry to the appropriate amount of our so called equality. OH and mostly because and we’re all still ppl living on the same planet. I bet men and women you’re a selfish and rude.
Loved the article, not so sure about some of the comments however. I was raised to respect all genders and if someone needs assistance, to provide it. In return I do appreciate when someone does the same for me. I give as well as like to get. I take my daughter the same and now see my grandchildren going forward as well. That said I personally would like to find a man that would go out of his way to make me feel like a woman. Sometimes such small tokens of appreciation can make someone feel extra special. When you feel good don’t you tend to give what you receive to others a lot more? I love feeling and being treated like a lady. Unfortunately there are no men out there that want what I have to give.
I feel the same way. I have no children, but if someone is willing to go the distance I would do the same for him. You have worded it perfectly. What would it take to find a man who would make you feel like a lady or woman all the time or for the whole? If he did these things, then he would in essence be the man and I would think I could do what he needed to feel like a man for his part because of my gratitude. I feel that either the men I have come across are inappropriate, already taken, or not suitable mates so it has seemed very depressing. I wonder if he exists too.
“I feel the same way. I have no children, but if someone is willing to go the distance I would do the same for him. You have worded it perfectly. What would it take to find a man who would make you feel like a lady or woman all the time or for the whole?”
There are many men that would do such things for you, as evidenced by the posts of men other than me here. What would you be willing to do for them? But that’s really not your issue. You should preface your statements with the clause, “Men that I find attractive…”. If you do that, you may find the solution that works for you.
You guys are looser’s, wouldn’t date any of you! These things are kind and so appreciated.
I do all of these things on a daily basis when I can. I was raised that you respect women and your elders. This stuff to me just seems like common sense but, even that seems to be a rare commodity these days. One thing that should be on too is “excuse me”, two words that can change outcome of incidental contact between strangers.
“Bring it back?” If your a well rounded man, and your parents raised you in the proper manner, Its how you live already. No need to bring anything “back” Turn off your tech device, look around, and get your fat butt outta that seat for a woman standing….
The author forgot assisting with her coat, but other than that, spot on!
Reblogged this on amandavisina.
I think the problem stems from women love to feel like a queen but the vast majority of women have lost the skills to make a man feel like a king. we do these things to be polite and provide comfort to the women we care about and because as a southern man my dead mom may still jump out of a closet and whip my ass if I don’t 🙂
It’s just a different time. Men expect the women to give it up on the first date and women give it to them so there is no respect. I think that if men are chivalrous the woman in return should be a good wife and make her husband feel like a king but I do believe there are things men should do, like this list. Men need to be gentlemen and women need to be ladies.
Unfortunately Michelle, in today’s slut-infested society, ladies are a rare breed. Too many men have learned the hard way that displaying gentlemanly behavior to women results in condemnation to the friendzone. Too many women have rewarded ungentlemanly and repellant behavior with their favors, sexual and otherwise. This is why, as you state in your post, “Men expect the women to give it up on the first date and women give it to them so there is no respect.”
So what you’re saying, Bob, is that it’s easy for women to control men and turn men into completely different people? First, you’d think more women would utilize that to produce the man of their dreams. Second, that definitely doesn’t qualify men for any positions of leadership or superiority anywhere in our society.
Please start looking at people as individuals.
Well said, Bill.
“I think the problem stems from women love to feel like a queen but the vast majority of women have lost the skills to make a man feel like a king. ”
Bingo. What is the corollary for men? Men are expected to do these things for women, why, exactly? What do men get in return?
LJBF.
What if you’ve been doing all these things for years and your lady doesn’t appreciate it? Is it time to stop? I think so…
Amen. The fun part is when you do these things and then still get rejected for a 2nd date! These things never left, girls just don’t care about them anymore.
No girls do care. Maybe you should date different women. Don’t look for a reason not to do these things.
Don’t be stupid. You’re saying that if a woman doesn’t want a second date then it’s pointless to serve her? Why do you think that if you’re chivalrous she owes you a second date? That’s a selfish mentality, and it’ll get you nowhere with women. It’s pretty obvious when someone actually wants to be chivalrous because it’s the right thing to do, and when they’re feeling put out by it. Contrary to what you think, girls do like chivalry, they should be willing to serve you too, just in different ways. But what in the world makes you think that you deserve a second date just because you’re doing those things? Chivalry is about treating a girl like a woman, making her feel like a lady, it’s an expression of care. It’s not about getting points. There is a lot more involved in a date than that, if she doesn’t want a second it might be because she feels that you two just aren’t a good match. She might turn you down afterwards because something isn’t right, but one thing is for sure, she’s not turning you down for being chivalrous.
Mindy:
You can’t really pull the “You’re being so selfish!” card, while in the same breath asking that all men treat you like a princess for no reason whatsoever.
bwbucs99:
Just go to a dating site, Thanks to the whole “women’s sexual liberation” thing, you can easily find dozens of people near you who are DTF, without wasting copious amounts of your time and money.
bwbucs99, the solution is of course, to not display such behavior. Give teh wimmenz what they want. If they want Harley McBadboy or Studly McRockbanddrummer, give it to them.
Ugh. Can we stop acting like basic adult manners are “serving women.” Not being a feral ape has nothing to do with your partner or what they do. You were either raised right, with the manners to behave as a civilized adult to other adults, or you weren’t. Stop looking for excuses and just be polite. And that works equally well for both men and women.
Gary,
I would dare say that if you are not married to such a lady – it may be an indicator that the time to consider moving on is at hand.
If you are married and committed to her, then I would charge you with this: DO NOT lower your standard of character just because of lack of appreciation. That would be an expression of true love and concern on your part: to act properly, with no return for yourself. Even if she does not appreciate it, those around you will gain an even higher level of respect for you (and the ones that don’t……..well, I suspect that they are probably coffee chums with ZERO further up the posts here).
Gary, you can either tolerate it or next her.
If chivalry is so effective, what’s the need to pressure others into it? If it really gives you an advantage at dating, everyone would be as chivalrous as possible. It’s precisely because it doesn’t really do anything that men have forgot about it.
I expect, every time, for a man to do these things. And if any man pulls the, “well you wanted equality,” mess then he isn’t a real man. I’m not a feminist at all so maybe that’s why I think this: There are just some things men should do. There are certain things women do but men should always always always be chivalrous. I’m a lady and I expect to be treated like one.
Michelle. Sandwiches. Now.
You…are my hero.. 🙂
+1
I can’t stop laughing!!! +1.
What are the things women should do?
Horrible and sexist. Have fun being single Michelle.
Wow, Michelle, just wow. It never ceases to amaze me how many women pretend to be such experts on what a real man is or is not. You know nothing about the subject. Your sense of entitlement really jumps out of your post. The fact is, whether you admit it or not, you are a feminist and you are one of the women that Chris Rock referred to as a killer of chivalry.
Bob, you keep talking about nice guys being “friendzoned”. Since you’ve shown absolutely no evidence of being a decent man, let alone human being, I don’t see how you would know that. If you’ve been treated badly by women in the past, maybe you should look in the mirror instead of blaming the “Feminists” or some mythical “Bad Boys” for your troubles. My husband is a super-sweet, honest gentleman who respects my opinions and my career, and still opens doors for me. Get over yourself.
Feminists would never say what Michelle just said. Her post is the antithesis of feminism.
I understand that this article focuses on what men should do….however…. what are the roles and responsibilities of women when it comes to chivalry?
What do you mean?
I think women should be ladies if men are expected to be chivalrous.
Not that I disagree, but what does that look like in practice? Specifics, please.
What do you mean? Besides not being slutty and having manners what else do you want?
rebeccdoran, you are correct.
define “not being slutty.” How does that work? Hemlines? Words? How should we investigate rape? What behaviors are acceptable in marriages?
As a woman, a kind and gentle one, I have often given up my seat to an elderly person,a young parent with babies, people who seem to be in need, regardless of gender. It’s called kindness and something that all too often is overlooked in today’s society. Self absorption, self importance, selfish intentions…notice the common thread? Kindness is never about self.
Exactly, and thank you … I apply good manners to everyone I meet. I do not apply them only to one gender because that gender is inferior to the other one; nor should anyone else.
“… what are the roles and responsibilities of women when it comes to chivalry? None.
She ties her scarf around his lance.
Good response.
Reblogged this on Dragonflys and Dreams and commented:
A very well written article. I may be a bit older but being a gentleman is timeless. If you are going to date a lady, then you need to know how to treat her like she is special and worthy of your respect. That is never old fashioned.
I’ve been told that another reason a man walks street side is because if she walks street side the man is pimping her out.
You need new friends.
because in this world, there are only two kinds of pussy, good and better… and as a man, you got none of it until you git some
To a woman who says “You don’t have to open doors for me because I’m a lady,” the man responds, “I don’t. I do it because I’m a gentleman.”
When I’m sitting on the train I always compliment the woman standing next to me. I usually tell her that her hair smells lovely.
When I was a growing up my mother would stop at the door and look at at me as if to remind me to open the door for her. Proudly I would and still do. I always open the door for any woman and thankful my mom taught me early on to respect woman.
I have no problem doing these for any woman, the only issue I have is when some ladies come to expect these things. Men don’t expect their significant other to do these things, so is it just for women to expect it from men? I realize not all ladies are like this; but it’s something to think about.
It’s so annoying that men complain about equality. Women STILL make less money on average in the workforce. Women STILL have to fight for maternity leave. Women are STILL the ones to stay home with the kids. Women STILL are the ones to lose out on benefits from not working for years if they do stay home with kids and then they get judged for not contributing financially to their family. If they don’t stay home with the kids, they get judged for putting them in daycare.
Women can’t win. And whiney little boys want to complain about how much the feminists ruined America. Perhaps if there had been more true men in the world like the author of this blog post, feminism would have never evolved.
Personally, I’m all for traditional roles. However, if a man were to complain to my face about women being equal, I might not be able to be lady enough not to slap the sense back into him.
You have all of these little boys saying “Boo hoo! What about ME? Why should I be nice if I’m not getting what I want? What do I get?” You get to go back to your momma and ask her why she raised such a whiney little brat. That’s what you get, sir.
I wish women didn’t have any of those struggles, change takes time… Look at any group that has ever faced inequality. Equality didn’t ruin America. What ruined America is that society encourages the public to be selfish. What ever happened to human dignity and loving others? That has no gender bias whatsoever.
I don’t see the sense in arguing though, some people will never understand it seems.
See my below reply. It is pure myth that women make less. The stats are misleading and completely wrong.
Mothers make much much less (56% on average). Women without children do not (and sometimes make more than both men with and without children).
Forbes has reported on a study showing that temporary IT workers with the exact same skills doing the exact same job earned an average of $25.08 per hour for women and $29.66 for men. Temp work was chosen because it crosses many industries but doesn’t require industry-specific background, and can typically be figured by hour.
This is exactly why feminism has such dwindling popularity.
Whiny little brat? Ummm, your whole post is nothing but whining. Women lose out on benefits if they stay home and have to do nothing. Shut up already. Women make less. That primarily applies to the corporate world. If you look at unskilled and younger demographics females tend to make more. And do you think that men should get paternity leave? If not why should a women. As soon as she’s healthy, she should go back to work. I wouldn’t expect an employer to hold my job just because I want to take time off to spend with my kid and I sure as hell wouldn’t expect them to pay me to do so. I tend to think that men and women should be treated equally, completely. If a woman’s doing the same job with the same amount of seniority she should be paid the same. Women should also be required to register for the selective service. Men should be equally responsible for cooking and cleaning at the house. The only instance that I afford women preferential treatment is when I’m choosing potential partners.
Pat, is this you by any chance? http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0110169/
Wes, the best way to get a woman is to RENT ONE. You will have more money and fewer headaches.
Way to reference fellow human beings as commodities for your personal consumption.
You’re not presenting a great picture of the types of men who insist that we unhold chivalry as a cultural value.
The writer is out of his mind! This is the 21st century not the 1950s. Women gave up the rights for all that stuff years ago. Get over it!
You’ll notice that it wasn’t written by a woman. Seems odd that a man would be sad about the loss of all these additional responsibilities, doesn’t it. What is he really missing?
The argument that men should do all this out of respect instead of sexism doesn’t hold up. In a relationship, it’s assumed that both parties respect each other. If they don’t, they shouldn’t be in a relationship. And yet women aren’t expected to hold doors for the men they respect.
Pat, it is a myth that women make less. No, they don’t. The cents comparison figures fail to take into account the following: women taking more part-time jobs, women taking more low-wage type of jobs, women taking maternity leave and taking off work for years etc. If you adjust for that, wages are equal, so spare me your feminist crap.
You women want men to do everything for you but never do anything for the man anymore. It’s all about you being served and never anything in return.
Sorry, but while I do these things for my wife, since while she is a strong woman who works outside the home she is not a feminist nutcase, I would never do this to a feminist woman.
They long ago gave up the right to be treated well by their hatred of men.
Well said, Bob. Well said.
Bob J, if it were true that women made less for doing the exact same work, no good capitalist would ever hire a man because he could the quantity and quality of work at a significantly lower price. Such cost savings would go directly to the bottom line. The fact that this doesn’t happen puts the lie to women’s whingeing about being paid less for the same work.
“They long ago gave up the right to be treated well by their hatred of men.” I agree with Charlie C. Well said.
Completely agree that there are legitimate reasons, like those you cite, that are the root cause for women making 75% on average less than male counterparts in the corporate arena. However, what are the causes for a woman to take more part time jobs, take lower wage jobs, take maternity leave and generally have less seniority in a role or with an organization? I would suggest one primary reason is to establish some semblance of a work, life balance while providing primary care to children and aging parents. It is a choice and most often both husband and wife, man and woman, strategize over major life decisions, like who will be the primary care person. It is unfortunate, we all should show and have respect for each other and leave judgment to the courts and higher powers. As a corporate executive with a size able financial institution and a mother who has raised two children, now 21 and 18, I should be paid commensurate wages for my output at work. If my time away for maternity leave or other outside responsibility puts me behind the curve, lack of technology knowledge for instance, than it is incumbent upon me to make up for lost ground in skill set. All things being equal, why should a woman earn less for the same job, output?
@bobj–Forbes has reported on a London Business School study showing that temporary workers with the exact same skills doing the exact same job earned an average of $25.08 per hour for women and $29.66 for men.
What if you’re a lesbian? Who will open your door for you then?
Hunter, you should have given a spew alert. Coffee everywhere. Well played, sir.
“Only one in seven men will offer their seat to a woman on a train or bus.”
Honestly I used to give up my seat to any women that I saw standing near me… but a few years ago a female went crazy and started cursing at me because she thought my gesture = I was implying that she was pregnant -_-
That many, Anthony? Regarding the female you referred to above, was she a land whale? Did her weight put her close to the median weight of an offensive lineman in the NFL?
Nobody has yet to honestly answer why men should continue to treat themselves like disposable garbage in a futile attempt to please women.
Especially since they don’t actually appreciate it for more than 10 minutes
Teh wimmenz have no answer. They only have a sense of entitlement the size of Jupiter.
I’ve known too many men who would get all huffy and insulted when women didn’t appreciate what the men thought women SHOULD appreciate. For centuries mend have been complaining that no matter what they do, it doesn’t work, yet it doesn’t seem to occur to ask the experts: women. I remember one guy who felt so inadequate that he couldn’t afford wall-to-wall carpet for his wife. No matter how many times I reminded him how much she hated wall-to-wall carpet, he continued to dwell on not being able to get her the thing she didn’t want and, had he been able to, she would have had to be deeply and insincerely grateful for.
It’s pretty simple to know why men should act subservients to ensure that women feel superior. Granted, as proven by these comments; most men are not intelligent enough to understand this, but women deserve to be treated like queens, goddesses or any type superior figure. Women walk with grace and therefore should be treated with nothing but respect. Guys who think they’re better need to get their head out of their ass. I am a 29 year old guy who adores a lovely female creature and I do what I can to make their life easier.
are you mentally retarded?
” women deserve to be treated like queens, goddesses or any type superior figure” ……. i’m sorry, but why?
“I am a 29 year old guy (who has never gotten laid)”
John, does being a mangina actually get you laid? If it does, good for you. If not, go to a doctor and have him cure you of your anal cranial inversion syndrome. After this surgical procedure, you may actually get some.
Meh, these guidelines are pointless. Respect should come naturally, not as static social conditioning rules in the form of “Men do this men do that.” Plus, I’m too ugly to be worried about ladies who don’t care for me.
Matiny, good manners, like words, are a form of language and facilitate communication of meaning-and simple decency and caring-else chaos in society would ensue-which not surprisingly is increasing.
You say, “I’m too ugly to be worried about ladies who don’t care for me.” Hey, not everyone is a Tom Cruise, but despite radical feminism, I’ll bet most women still appreciate it and in doing so you would likely find yourself standing taller and shining brighter in many women’s eyes than a lot of Cruise-types who look good on the outside but are hollow and uncaring on the inside.
What do you ladies think?
[…] via 8 Acts Of Chivalry To Bring Back | James Michael Sama. […]
Wow, this has turned into quite the back-and-forth conversation…I’ll add my 2 cents too.
I grew up in a home where my father not only held the door open for my mother and other family members, but he did so for those coming in behind him or heading out with him – and he did it with a smile (he still does this). When I was younger, I asked why he felt the need to hold the door for people – especially when it wasn’t appreciated (no thank you’s or smiles back – from men or women) – and his response was this, “I don’t do it solely for them. I do it because it’s right, it’s kind, and it makes me feel good about myself”. It is amazing how such a small gesture can brighten a person’s day – even if it is just for a few moments. What’s the harm in that?
There are other things he does to show is care and respect for others (women, children, and yes, even men). For instance, he will drop people off at the front door and then park the car, he pumps gas when he isn’t even driving, and he waits to get his food after the children and elderly have received their food – the woman too most of the time. My father will walk on the street side of the sidewalk (or closest to the flow of traffic) as well. I have learned quite a bit by watching him over the years. Are there many who don’t even acknowledge what he does – you bet, but as he said, it’s really not just for that person – it was how he was raised and chooses to live.
I am a single parent of two little boys and they are (and will continue to be) raised with similar acts of kindness that my father has shown me over the years. Call it what you must, but there is a need for kindness and many times displaying such a thing costs nothing but a second or two of time (ok, it does require you to be alert and not so self absorbed).
As a woman, I do appreciate (and always say thank you) when someone opens the door for me or allows me to go first. I believe any interaction between people is a give-and-take kind of thing. You give negativity and take all the time, than you will receive negativity and be taken from often. If men and women were willing to show one another these little acts of kindness, I’m thinking many things would be different from both perspectives. Women can not ask me to behave in certain manners and be willing to reciprocate a certain standard of manners as well. You can not complain about there being no gentlemen left in the world when you are not willing to be a lady.
There are things women can do to show appreciation for our counterparts when given the opportunity….holding the door for them now and again, reaching across the car to unlock the door from the inside (providing they had opened the passenger door first – although with the automatic lock/unlock keys these days may not afford quite the same opportunity), watching what they want (without complaint) from time to time, letting them pay for a meal without trying to one-up that person, remembering to say please and thank you, and just being encouraging and supportive.
No matter who is displaying the kindness, it most certainly shouldn’t be done to see “what you can get out of it”. Behavior like this is not a checklist of things to do to move forward on a date or what have you, but instead is actually part of one’s character.
Men, if you are not willing to behave in such a way to attract a lady, then don’t complain about the trash that comes to your door. AND ladies, the same goes for us too. If we aren’t willing to show mutual respect and appreciation for what a gentleman is trying to do, than do NOT complain when you have nothing but the ‘dogs’ barking at your door….bottom line, it goes both ways. Mutual respect, mutual appreciation….
Well said, Holly.
Holly, if all you say is true, then you are part of a rare and vanishing breed. Regarding the unlocking of a car door, I have a better test for a woman. First, unlock the door on the passenger side, open and close (after she’s seated of course) and walk behind your car. While doing this, watch to see if she reaches over and unlocks your door for you. If she unlocks the door for you, she’s may very well be a lady and worthy of you. (LTR, marriage, etc.) If she doesn’t unlock the door for you, she’s unworthy. I can’t claim credit for this. It’s from the movie “A Bronx Tale”. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kW94hQQMTQw
Hi Bob, there is no need for me to lie or embellish…and thank you, I do feel like there aren’t many of “us” out there anymore…I enjoy seeing people smile – especially if I was able to provide them a reason to smile 🙂 Doesn’t mean there aren’t days where I am not at my best…I am human after all and do have my own feelings, circumstances, emotions to work through, but I truly believe in the philosophy, “Treat others as you would want to be treated.” Sometimes (more so than not), it means I have to be able to be polite, nice, courteous, etc. even when others are not willing/able to reciprocate the gesture.
I look at it like this, doing things like holding a door, saying please and thank you, waiting an extra couple of minutes to let a person go before me (maybe my grocery cart is full and they only have a few items – have done this quite a bit), or simply giving a person a genuine smile (maybe coupled with a hello) costs me nothing that I can’t give freely and without strings attached. I do these things not just to be polite, but to be a better person on the whole. I feel better about my life and myself when I do things for others and am not concentrating on the “woes” of my own circumstances – I have also found doing so can free up my mind and allow solutions to come in on my own situations I may be struggling with 🙂
Any way, it is discouraging when I see men and women get up in arms about chivalry and whether its dead or alive. Being kind to one another shouldn’t be a question of existence. Decency and common courtesies used to be a ‘given’, to have it be prevalent again, we must teach our selves and our children the value of such behavior and character-building. Okay, getting off my soapbox, thank you for reading/’listening’….maybe one day – if not already – I will hold the door for you with a smile and a hello 🙂 Have a blessed day!
Your milkshake is bringing a very special kind of boy to the yard. Enjoy dating Bob. He sounds like a real winner!
New title should be how to be a beta male. Most people that will agree with this are older than the current generation in which rarely any female dates guys like this. Times have changed im sorry
Spot on, T.
Women don’t do anything huh? WE make the same amount of money Right?? Not true, I have a Master’s in Psych, and even after 5 years in my field, I was still passed up for an ENTRY level job by a male with an associated degree in psych. The reason: “This position (btw: it was a psycho-social rehab provider and basic skills trainer, look it up if you want) requires you to work with high risk persons, many of whom can become violent. As such, we feel that you are not a suitable candidate”. And they left it at that. We, as women, are often FORCED to take those lower jobs because people need to eat and we have bills. Those end up being the only ones we can get.
As for the “we don’t do anything and want the “Man” to do it all. Let’s look at that one, the average working wife/mother: works either a full time job, 2 part times jobs (or more and this is the most common), or (rarely) if she is lucky will only have to work 1 part time job. No matter what or how many jobs she has, she is still primarily responsible for the children. Period. If she is home then she must take care of the children, the kitchen, laundry, cleaning of the bathrooms and ensure all bills are paid on time and food is well stocked, bare minimum. Doesn’t seem like much right? Well, what if she is in the 2 jobs or one full time categories. What does that leave for the “Man”, dusting, and maybe vacuum, sweep and mop. So his chores, whether he is working or not, should take no more than an hour max in a 1500 sqft home, and that is including drying time for moping. Her chore list in the same size house (usually 2 to 2 1/2 bath) should take around 3-4 hours deepening on how many dishes, how long to cook food, and how many loads of laundry, figure each load takes at least 2 1/2 hours from dirty to dry and put away. Ohh and this is not including the time she uses to spend with the children, if there are any. So all chores except the cooking and maybe the dishes are done after the child(ren) go to bed.
Personally, I give my all. I treated my ex-husband like a king. I work full time, do/did ALL the cleaning and bills. I do/did all the shopping and budgeting and even made sure he had a little play money if he wanted something. All I asked for was a little help in each area. Sort YOUR dirty clothes and put YOUR clothes away. Help with our daughter (he was not working most of the time and would be off work by 230 on the days he did work). I asked him to rinse his dishes and keep his stuff picked up. I should not have had to ask, He was 30 when we got married, a grown “man”. I had to treat him like child because he refused to act like a man. He even asked for a chore chart that he never used.
Not once in our marriage did he compliment me, but if he wanted sex, I gave it my all, I tried all kinds of things for him that I would have not done had he not been my husband. But not once did he make me FEEL wanted. Hell, when he did want sex, it was MY job to get us both ready. Well, Zero and Rusty, sounds like I married a man that could have been related to you. Ignorant and male chauvinist. We as real women, do not want everything handed out to us. We simply want acknowledgment of what we do and we fully intend to give that respect right back to those MEN who give it to us. I open doors for men, women, children, whoever is coming through if I’m near a door. It’s called respect to humanity, not just to women. If your a man with the mentality that “women are getting what’s coming to them”, and you have little boys, don’t be surprised when your son rapes or beats a girl one day, you taught him that she owes him obedience and sex whenever he wants it. If you have daughters, don’t be surprised if she ends up being beaten or raped by a spouse, you taught her that she is something to be owned and not a person to be respected.
Hmm… Physician, heal thyself.
Lou, that’s a lovely Great Wall of Text. Try using paragraphs.
Hmm….I do all of these things, and I HATE making phone calls. Now if we could just make modern women stop being witches who don’t actually appreciate guys who do this, then complain that they can’t find one after they go with a jerk who treats them badly, we might be allright
I agree that chivalry is a good thing as is treating women with equal dignity, worth,etc . But equality does not mean being the same-men and women are different-thankfully. But sadly militant feminism has done so much damage in our culture that so often some women feel that they need to be independent of and compete with men instead of complement and complete each other. Or as famous feminist Gloria Steinham said, “We have become the husbands (or men-trying to recall exact words) we always wanted.” EG When I tried to go to the other side of the car to open a woman’s door, she dismissed it as unnecessary since it was easier for her to open. Chivalry is an outgrowth of Christian civilization which elevated women as in no other culture in history. EG the men on the sinking Titanic despite the baloney in the movie, were not merely chivalrous but gave up the life boats-in effect their lives- to the women and children. Sadly since we have strayed so far from our Christian foundations, we have become more barbarian and likewise chivalry has tended to be thrown out the window-and also to no surprise abuse of women and children has skyrocketed.
Van M, the Costa Concordia is a direct result of feminism. Unlike the Titanic nearly 102 years ago, why should I or any man give up his life to save some shrieking harpie feminist? Women wanted to be equal. So let them be equal. They can join men equally and die with men equally on the Titanics and Costa Concordias of the future.
You feel that women voting and owning property damaged our society?
I’m honestly wondering who reads this garbage and actually believes it.
I’m assuming this is flat-out female fodder.
It’s only going to appeal to a very specific slice of relatively sheltered women….
Yet after all those , the women goes behind your back and fuck someone else, so whats the point? plus nowadays when you try to be nice to some females the consider it as being “thirsty”. So yeah Women killed what they called a Chivalry because at the end of the day , the same female who says ” i can never find a nice guy” ,is the same one that is turning them into assholes.
I do that, probably more, however in terms of consistency, in terms of if she also appreciates these in return, I would need to find her worthy first, otherwise there is no need since she doesn’t the gifts of mine.
see*, at least you attract many traffic, good strategy 😉
Wow. Some of the comments here from men are just bitter and sad. Why do these things for women? Because it’s NICE. It’s POLITE. It’s a show of MANNERS.
Want to be treated with respect? You have to show respect. If you choose a woman who does absolutely nothing for you, no little favors, no special treatment, then that’s your own fault.
Whenever a man holds the door open for me I always say, “thank you” and smile. And I’ve held the door for others. I’ve also helped people with groceries or picking up something they’ve dropped. It’s called being “civilized” and participating in society in a positive way.
Those bitter men commenting here, I would not be at all surprised if they have practically zero involvement with women and remain chronically single. No adult, self-respecting woman would ever want to be involved with such horribly negative men.
To the other men, the ones who do have the manners, thank you. Women DO appreciate it. It’s not offensive, it’s not insulting. And I’m guessing that if you do run into a woman who gets all butthurt because the door was held open for them is someone not many people actually want to know. Ignore ’em. The rest of us appreciate a man with manners.
I really like this post, we all can learn from being respectful and positive. Why people are so touchy and “bitter” sometimes makes no sense to me.
Part of doing the “right thing” is also expecting nothing in return. Honestly I could care less whether someone shakes my hand, thanks me for, etc.. being genuinely polite. We shouldn’t need to use others approval.
Be polite not because you need to, but because everyone should do it.
I am by no means an expert or philosopher, but aren’t there certain things we should be able to put aside. Learn to be noble and make everyone around you a better person.
I’d rather be a leader than a follower any day..
such thing is very difficult to generalise it all as there are many factors to be taken into consideration before saying it is black or white. Some men may be deeply wounded in the past, fear closes openness, some girls may also been through similar experiences, clouded by thoughts.
Except that it’s just as rare to find a woman nowadays who actually appreciates it and gives respect back instead of just saying they do
Some women feel that these gestures reinforce a gender hierarchy and they do not welcome them. They feel that it is condescending and patronizing, akin to being referred to as “honey” or “sweetie”. I was raised to be “chivalrous”, and I have had to un-learn that behavior in order to have successful relationships with modern women.
@KristineAz – You are hearing the truth. Hearing truth can be painful for those, such as yourself apparently, who live in a cocoon of pretty little lies instead of the real world and never see things as they truly are. Chivalry is dead. Women killed it. That, dearie, is the truth.
Right on Kristine! I know I appreciate the little things and presume men do too. And you are right, I don’t get offended or insulted when a man (or woman for that matter) holds the door open for me, or other courtesies are provided. Instead, I’m left with thoughts on how kind that individual was to give up their time for me. Sometimes that smile I received from a stranger brightens my day just a bit more – even provides a “pick-me-up” kind of thing.
Thank you for posting, it’s like you were reading my thoughts 🙂
I think there are just a lot of bitter, damaged guys on here, blaming all women instead of taking responsibility for their own poor choices in past partners. It’s sad and sobering, both to see how they lash out, and to see how their perspectives are taken seriously by some female posters. I do hope they can find peace and treatment for their pain sooner rather than later.
I actually do all of that. It’s been taught to me by my parents and in my culture (Pakistan). Yet I am still perceived as a mean and arrogant male, hence I call these points useless.
I’m a girl , and I do most of the activities listed regardless of their gender.
It just seems like a polite thing to do ,and it honestly makes me feel good inside.
PLUS it makes you look good too .
Yes, Chivalry might be dead or slowly dying but that doesn’t mean that politeness should die also. Every body, I mean, both men and women should be polite and respectful to one another. Just like in this article, some people say that men should be more like these things and/or posses these kinds of attitude, but I think that if these things were done to women, they should know how to appreciate them even if they didn’t want it in the first place. KNOW HOW TO DECLINE/SAY NO POLITELY. We can’t deny how the world is badly changing, in a sense of how people treat other people nowadays. Each person has a different say on things but that doesn’t mean that one is more right than the other. We should respect each one, even if we don’t always agree with them, and it’s called, mutual respect.
“Something might be good for you but it doesn’t automatically mean that it’s the right thing for everyone.”
I do some of the things here but I disagree with this articles way of saying it. Respect and care should not be exclusive to women. Also, everyone has their own slightly different idea of respect and care and whats important is that they get the message. Because thats what most of these acts are for, you just want to make them feel loved/cared for/respected. So do what pleases them and dont blindly follow old traditions.
But I have to say, a lot of the things here a pretty pointless. But then again, if the other person, appreciates it, you have to act accordingly or you wont get through. But they’re just that, acts, just a part of the social dance which have almost zero (or negative) practical value. My rule is that if it has negative practical value, I dont bother. Why inconvenience someone to show you care?
Uh… yeah, most of these are pretty common-sense, right? Most of the men I’m friends with know to do most of these things (okay, we’re all above 30). The “walk on the street side” tip was one I read in an old handbook on manners, and it was paired with “always walk on the low side of the staircase from her (behind her going up, in front of her going down) in case she stumbles.”
Ladies, help me out here: It seems to me that the “compliments, compliments, compliments” tip is more about romance than chivalry, don’t you think? I know it’s a good one for men in couples, but for a single guy to constantly compliment their single lady friend outside of a serious dating relationship… I think that might be a little creepy perhaps? And, related, wouldn’t you want a sincere compliment from the heart a couple of times a week more than just “lip service” every day?
(Ladies, consider giving that guy you’re fond of a compliment every once in awhile, too… most of the men I know don’t seem to get many nice words of appreciation from their girlfriends or wives, but for those who do, it can be highly motivating!)
And lastly, ladies, if you’d like a man to hold the door, pull out your chair, etc., then let him do those things… wait for him, or pause before you do them yourself so you can give him time to hustle over to you… do we have a deal?
BTW, the photo in the article above with the man’s hand on the woman’s knee?… Seems like a nice gesture from a man to his wife, but in the context of this article?… didn’t seem all that chivalrous. It’s very intimate. James… I’d remove it if I were you, or move it to an article about marriage and/or intimacy.
Reblogged this on DBSA NW Georgia Consumer Network and commented:
I hope men wake up and start doing a least a few things off of the list of 8.
For nearly twenty years I aways, rain or shine, opened the car door for my wife. I started this habit simply to communicate to her that I cherished her. What I soon found however, was this it always reminded me that I cherished her. Sometimes we would be in mid-argument, but I would open her door for her, and suddenly remember how much she means to me. Three years and two days ago she was diagnosed with leukemia, and nine months later she went on to her reward. My hearts prayer was that her last earthly thought would be that her earthly husband and her heavenly Husband loved her. My deepest regret I tweeted a few months later- “I wish I had held her hand more.” I was not a perfect husband, but this little liturgy didn’t show that I was a good one. Instead it made me a better one.
Wouldn’t it be nice is women were to give men the same treatment they expect from us? Women claim to want equality, but you can’t be equal and expect us to give you special treatment because you are a women. I may sound like a pessimist, but that’s only after years of playing the gentleman role and getting burned for it. If women want to be equal, they either have to come down off their pedestal, or elevate use up to their level.
A lot of us here are pointing out that we DO open the door for men all of the time. And I’ve given up my seat to an elderly guy struggling on a cane, a guy in a cast with pins in his leg, and women who looked 9 months pregnant in the hot summer. It’s just being nice. So I speak from experience when I say it’s really not a big deal. None of those things are horribly difficult to do and people don’t spit in your face and curse your existence for offering a door or a seat. I’m not sure why guys here are acting like they gave us a kidney because they held a few doors once.
So you can hold my door and it’s not special treatment (because I’ve also held a door for a guy today). I’ll smile, say thanks, and grab the next door for you. Or if it seriously makes you feel bad, don’t hold the door. Honestly, I won’t really notice at all. It’s all good.
I don’t know if my husband has read this, but he is very chivalrous, and always has been! Thank you MeMe!
Why do men have to “do things” I say equality rules. They wanted it, they get it. I’ve actually had a dates friend (first date, I told my date she could bring a friend) get made and verbally shared it saying she didn’t “need a man” to do that for her. I gently put my hand on her shoulder to coax her in through the door and she LOST IT!
Holding a door is one thing. Having someone lay a hand on your person to “guide you” is an entirely different level. If your date wanted to bring a friend on a first date, she already felt somewhat unsafe around you.
Why did she have to be coaxed?
P.S.
The man walking on the street side is from something totally different. Not sure the author knows. It comes from the prostitution/pimp relationship. The “joys” of urban living and growing up in the hood taught me, uhm, well…..
No, it comes from the ages when chamber pots were emptied from upstairs windows onto the narrow sidewalks (and the mud roads with carriages had more of a splash radius). Walking on the inside meant less risk of a chamber pot encounter and less mud splatters on your 10-foot-wide skirt.
I miss men like this the only man I dated that was like this was in the Navy and it surprised the hell out of me but I loved it
You managed to completely miss the fight for equality that’s been going on for the last hundred years, where women wanted to be treated the same as men?
Or do you get out of the car and walk round to open the door for male passengers, also?
REAL MEN are chivalrous and REAL WOMEN appreciate chivalry (aka respect). It has nothing to do with equality. Who in the their right mind really thinks men and women are “equal”. We aren’t and we can’t be. And thank God for that. Inequality does not mean superior versus inferior; it just means different. Men who are afraid to show simple tokens of respect (and women who are afraid to receive them) are nothing less than insecure.
we are the knights who say ‘ni’
My husband does all this, and more.
Good for you. Nobody likes a braggard.
Thank you so much, Joe!
Nobody likes internet trolls who pretend to be someone they are not.
lol
*braggart*, Joe.
Dangit, Joe! What did I tell you about getting involved in these discussions? It’s not enough that you make fart noises during my speeches, now you have to troll the Internet and get angry at happy women?! Shame on you.
no one cares!
I care, Mr. Licker.
Mine does too! And I love it!
*nods* We are the lucky ones, Christina! (And how rare we enjoy it!)
There’s a distinction between expecting / asking / appreciating a husband doing this (presumably out of love) and an expectation that all men anywhere will treat you this way.
The latter leads to men expecting women as a group to either be subservient or offer something else in exchange.
My husband does treat all women this way, when applicable. I do believe that being a gentleman implies a man doesn’t seek a service of any kind. Rather, a kindness is done in appreciation of women overall.
Yes, but what you believe, while quite lovely and warm fuzzies and all that jazz, is not necessarily what all men everywhere believe. As many posts here prove.
So i read a good amount of these and i do agree there is value to chivalry. However when i hear its dead i argue that the real Lady is dead as well. We are in a time where equality is paramount. If i argue why arent younger women more ladylike as was the norm in earlier times. Most females reading this will think something along the lines of ” we had no rights, or say, or whatever. Thats true and thats fine but in that same argument why must men be chivalrous? Someone wrote cause women do things for men all the time. I argue dont we? I care for my girlfriend all the time. I treat every day like its valentines day with her. I believe we live in a time where most of those old acts are outdated in several ways. I could go on to explain why but ive made my point. In reality i blame our increasing laziness and the overall selfishness that is inherent to most people nowadays.
I agree to a point. I do most if not all of these things, but I women (and their fickle minds) want chivalry. So they think. Then they date some guy who has nigh a chivalry based bone in his body. In other words, if women want gentlemen, be a lady first.
All I can say is, “AMEN”. I act like a lady, and dress like one, and am treated with the utmost respect, for which I’m most appreciative.
Ahhh, everything was fine until you said “be a lady FIRST”. Who should act first? I say take it upon oneself to act first. If we wait for the other to act like a “lady” or a “gentleman” first, we are being selfish and nothing will improve. Be the change you wish to see in the world!
Just do what is right. Don’t worry about others or if they will return the favor.
sadly a lot of men have been trained by their peers of the opposite sex that most of those things are degrading to women because after all we are just as good, strong and need no help like a man. the feminist movement has pushed women to be less ladylike but also to despise the things that may be considered chivalrous in many ways
Ppl should be good to each other, period. We ladies put a lot of effort into being “lady like”. Of course there exceptions, as well. The laziness and selfishness is more and more disturbing with the younger generations that have no consideration or respect for anyone, and I see that every day. I’m only in my 30s but young men in bars and the things they think they can get away with saying to women is appalling now. These girls have just accepted it and are happy for any attention it seems. Sad.
I agree that a lot of women could be more courteous and respectful, but when I encounter a true gentleman, it always brightens my day and I truly appreciate it! Maybe someone will write an article about being a lady! As a woman, I try to do my part as well. I think everyone is just trying to get through their daily lives and most are so overwhelmed, they don’t try to think of others. We all need to think of others more. I like this article a lot!
ok, if women where still continued to be treated kindly as this movement supports, then maybe the Real Lady as you mention woldnt be as dead. Now you have to realize, man are, as in the BIBLE , supposed to be the HEAD, the woman is supposed to honot their husbands, be submissive unto them, husband love their wife as God loves the church. NOW, when you see whats goin on, on a serious and realistic and non sided perspective note, we don’t know what happens behind closed doors !st of all. OK , but as a natural characteristic of a woman being a woman of God, knowing the Law, wants to please her husband. I don’t know where it began but women call each other B word just playing these days. Its not polite. Its not funny. But Men especially in the music industry (which is extremely influencial to our society, especially our teenagers, which is the future of our world, ) have used this to describe women, period, not only black women, all women. Well any way I agree ” I believe we live in a time where most of those old acts are outdated in several ways. I could go on to explain why but ive made my point. In reality i blame our increasing laziness and the overall selfishness that is inherent to most people nowadays.”
http://youtu.be/C3m3t_PxiUI check this song on youtube LUPE FIASCO – B* BAD, WOMAN GOOD
Because it was less horrific when it was used to describe mostly black women?!
The Bible doesn’t actually appoint men to be the head and Jesus did more to lift women to equality than anyone else of his time.
Agreeing that men are right to treat some women poorly because of those women’s outfits or emotional concerns (which may, for all you know, be 100% valid and deserve your Christian sympathy and support) is both b1tchy and ungodly.
As your ‘mission statement’ implies,chivalry is not about age,class,gender roles and the like. It is about having the special brand of self-respect that demands kind and respectful treatment of other people. Some call it agape’ or the Golden Rule but it means we pay attention to what is needed instead of arbitrary and contrived dictates of human law or ‘ettiquette’. I grew up in the Deep South. We were less incensed by Rosa Park’s hubris in ‘keeping her place’ during that bus ride than by there being scant mention of men or women,young or old,of any ethnic group offering her a seat because she had a greater need. There would have been less need for the Highlander Folk School to teach people how to assert their rights if all of us acted with consideration and honor because of who we are instead of allowing fear to keep us in lockstep with social mandates. Chivalry doesn’t have either party of a charitable act filling a specific role out of weakness. One gives and one receives because we are all interdependent members of the commonweal. True mensches and authentic women are wise,decent and intrepid whether they take support from those around them or offer help to others. They don’t ask whether recipients are ‘deserving’ or helpless or whether helpers are servants or champions.
I agree, about how if men should be chivalrous then women should be ladies, i got cussed out the other day bc i held the door for a random woman, and she did not take kindly to the “old fassioned idea that she could not open the door for her self,” I slamed the door in her face, if she can be a bitch then i can be a dick.
I can’t believe that happened! I guess it’s women like that who killed it. Ugh.
I agree, but it is my endevor to be respectful to all people, i hold doors for everyone that comes my way, this has left me holding a door for several min at a time some times, but i do it because i believe people are all equal and i enjoy it when someone does it for me.
You know, maybe she was just having a bad day and it wasn’t about you. Many women do many things every minute of every day that have nothing whatsoever to do with you in any way.
Regardless, you were ungentlemanly and ungracious and perhaps she was correct in assessing you and deciding to save her “ladylike” behaviors for a more gentlemanly guy.
Chivalry grows out of the middle ages. The way women were treated then is comparable to how women are treated now in Afghanistan. Let’s say we go to Afghanistan and introduce the men there to chivalry. It will improve the lives of women there by a large margin. It’s not ideal as it’s not actual equality and safety, but it gives men a false sense of superiority in exchange for a false sense of obligation toward these poor, weak, fragile creatures and the women end up with a better, less brutal existence.
However, take it to a country like the U.S., where women aren’t as brutalized in the courts, the hospitals, the government offices, the streets, the stores, everywhere. Here, women are able to ask for equality in pay, workplace opportunity, etc. So saying, Hey, honey, here’s a door opened and a car drop off – I’ma need you to clean my house and cook for me and I’ll throw a little moolah your way now and then, so long as you keep it tight and right – it’s not a good trade for the women here.
A global and historical perspective can be very helpful with these types of things.
Well now here’s the issue. I’ve read the article and most of the comments. One thing is missing: the historical context. The codes of chivalry applied to men and women of certain classes and were socially enforced. You can be sure that no nobleman or knight was rushing down to the kitchen to open doors for the woman carrying the 50lb sack of grain, let alone doing it for her. Our egalitarian society has made the term “lady” to mean any female, which made it necessary for “gentlemen,” or every man, to see every woman as a lady. We know this is not the case. Not only would it be impossible for men to apply the codes of chivalry to every female around him, he would be a fool to try. Just as no “Lady” would bestow her favors on just any guy who opens the door. I suggest we solve the problem by letting men choose to behave chivalrously toward those whom they see as ladies, and ladies should not only endeavor to be seen as such, but expect such treatment from the gentlemen with whom she spends her time!
And yet a popular Victorian code of conduct stated: A gentleman is obliged to treat every woman as a lady, Not because she is a lady, but because you yourself are a gentleman.” Or something to that effect. However, I do agree with your assessment that even the most conscientious Victorian gentleman would know that the class divisions were implicit. (And this does of course play right into your “historical context premise.”) So, not a contradiction, just an elaboration. 🙂
I try to be a gentleman every chance I get but I agree with this post very much. If young ladies or women in general truly want and desire to be treated as a “lady”, then they should do a little research and learn what being a lady means. Though we have indeed moved far from the days of chivalry as a norm, females have also moved far away from the codes that made them deserving and in many cases even wanting of chivalry. A female in today’s world I believe should first and foremost have respect for herself, which in turn will cause men of the right caliber to be generous with their politeness and chivalry. If a young lady or woman is not receiving the kind of attention she feels she deserves, then she should possibly re-evaluate the class of men she associates herself with and the outward attitude she projects in her social and professional circles. When she aligns herself properly, “lady-likeness” and “gentlemanlyness” will work hand in hand and attract each other.
The same goes for men. If a man wants to attract females who truly respect and honor their men, then they should behave and act as though they deserve that respect. For both men and women, you attract what you breed. In your actions, your language and your restraint.
I think I follow a lady like standard and respect myself. That doesn’t mean some 21 year old punk won’t approach me at a bar and ask me almost immediately for sex. When refused you’re insulted. Also, I had a cab stolen from me by another punk the other day, when I insisted “ladies first” for the cab I HAILED, he shouted “f off ” to me and jumped in. While I haven’t dated any of these men, to completely agree with your theory, they’re out there polluting our streets. I find that all ppl are only checked into their manners these days when there’s someone they care to impress or stand to gain something from. A friend of mine really shocked me recently because hes extremely polite to his fiancee. He refused to give up his trolley seat to some bridesmaids in strapless dresses and heels standing and holding on to a rail because we were all independent women…. when told he wasn’t a gentleman he told us to f off. True colors shown. Too bad she wasn’t there to witness that.
@E – Were those his fiancee’s bridesmaids? If not, he owes them nothing. If they were, then there may be an explanation demanded by his fiancee. Those bridesmaids once again experienced the price of equality. Such women want equality, until equality inconveniences them. They want to be equal? So let them be equal and stand as men are expected to stand. That’s equality, whether you (or those bridesmaids) like it or not.
So basically, ask your husbands / boyfriends to treat you with respect and kindness and do the same for them. No prob.
I can see why men would not want to give their seat up for women generally. They’d never sit down again. I’d have an issue with that if I were a guy too.
You know I see alot of big words tossed around and things being mentioned like equality, chivalry, feminism, sexists, and alot of other different scenarios where 2 or more of these things is combined. I mean look, I’m only 22 and I’m in the Marine Corp, so to alot of you that either makes me some sort of honorable man, or a brainwashed killing machine, but I know in my heart and mind one thing for certain…all of that is wrong.
I dunno what chivalry is supposed to mean, and literally no one should. In my own opinion I don’t think chivalry, or respect for that matter (maybe to a lesser degree), has anything to do with having a defined meaning. Any time I always think about doing something, even for things like holding doors open, giving up my seat, or pulling out someones chair for them, I’ve always been under the feeling that I was doing it cause it benefits me in the end.
Call it selfish, call it stupid, call it naive, call it whatever you like…I don’t hold a door open for a lady, woman, girl, female, she, her, whatever you like to put there as the definer of a human being with a vagina, for that reason alone. I do it because I think that she is really, really, really pretty, and that her presence fills my nose with a pleasant scent, and that maybe if I’m lucky, holding that door open for her will get me somewhere. Where that somewhere goes is anybodies guess, and wherever it goes is fine by me, as long as its with her. But in that one instant I’m not doing it because I think I should or because its chivalrous…I’m just doing it cause I wanted to, cause I thought it was in my own best interests, and that those interests are best for me because…well because I deem them so.
And I know, it does seem quiet selfish because what if I had thought it wasn’t in my best interest? Would I have still held the door open for that woman? Who knows. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had someone say thank you to me because what they thought was me opening the door for them, was really me just open the door an excessive amount, so much that when they reached the door themselves, it appeared as if I had done it on purpose to hold it for them. I don’t tell them I wasn’t, because its not in my best interest. It would surely only make me seem rude, and honestly I don’t see myself as a rude person, so who knows how much more of a problem it could be for me.
My point is I don’t do any of those things above, if I’ve ever done them to begin with, because I feel like some definition tells me what, when, for who, and why I should do it, but simply just because I wanted to, because it was good for me. Sometimes we place too much value in what we think about words and not about what we feel. So if anyone has any doubt as to what I’m trying to say (and I don’t fully know that I’ve even explained properly what I wanted to say) it is this:
Ladies I don’t hold the door open for you because of your gender, or because its respectful, or because its chivalrous and the definition of that word tells me I have to do it for this or that reason. I do it because I think you are infinitely more attractive than looking at myself in a mirror when I wake up in the morning, and that if I did hold the door open for you, who knows how many mornings I could wake up to looking at you instead. Need for companionship? Not really, I just find women attractive, as any (straight) man does, and would like to have one to wake up to in the morning. I’m sorry if that means that it makes me a servant, if I continue to hold the door open for that same lady every morning to keep her around, but if its all she requires, to get what I require…well I don’t see the loss in doing something for my own benefit.
That makes complete sense as to why men stop doing all that after they get the woman.
Then they do the bare minimum as to what they have to do to keep her.
The problem is she doesn’t want to stay for very long after that stops. We need the extra attention and respect. It’s in our DNA our body make up. It’s the key to making a marriage last and interesting. And if you don’t do it there’s always somebody else in line to do it for you.
All men think alike apparently.
sigh…..you’re both nuts. if you think you have to cowtow to anyone to get them to like you , they don’t like you. And they never will. They might like getting their asses kissed. Then when you get tired of ass kissing because inevitably, if you are doing that, you are not getting anything in return, because people who like being in relationships with ass kissers like getting their asses kissed. They don’t like reciprocating. All of these ‘rules’ are stupid. if two people really dig each other, it’s a two way street, they are considerate towards each other , they do things for each other , and this subject never comes up. The whole idea of chivalry is ridiculous in the modern world. Women who want that think they should be held on a pedestal and worshiped. You can’t walk from the car with your guy , he has to drop you off? What a crock of shit. Even if it’s raining. you wont’ melt anymore than he will.
and with young girls just giving it away these days, its no surprise to me that men think they can treat them with little respect. but how do we turn it all around. i imagine since an elderly lady has no value to a man that only does thing for beautiful women, she gets a door slammed in her face.
Does this mean that you don’t open a door for an unattractive woman or an elderly woman? Does this mean that you don’t pull out a chair for your mother or a female relative? There is a difference between chivalry and opportunism.
Maybe the Marines can instill the things that your parents didn’t. At present, you sound like a complete piece of excrement. I mourn for the unfortunate people who have to cross your path in this life.
@Mark Manners – ” I mourn for the unfortunate people who have to cross your path in this life.” You mean like al-Qaeda?
He sounds fairly normal and far more self-aware and honest than most men here.
He’s also approaching it with hopes, not hardcore expectations of the women he assists. That’s far less threatening from a woman’s perspective, and far less sociopathic from a psychological perspective.
I’d hate to be one of your Marine buddies. When the shit hits the fan, and someone gets wounded, too bad for them that it’s no benefit to you to perform a rescue. Sometimes I forget how completely ignorant people can be at 22 years of age. Grow up a bit, and maybe you’ll become a real man someday. And maybe you’ll be able to actually earn the respect of that uniform, because you certainly haven’t yet.
Wow wow there Mark Manners & Wayne Parker.
First off, I don’t know whoever EastCoastMarine is but Mark, neither do you and neither do you know his parents. And to insult him, simply for being honest and he never said he’d intentionally slammed in door in someone’s face if they weren’t “attractive enough”.
Same goes to you Wayne, his comment was about being a civilian opening up a door. He might still be that one person to take a bullet for their buddy. While we ALL make assumptions throughout our day and lives, there’s no need to make such a leap of faith as you made above.
I will admit, I’m only 20 years old but it seems I have a little bit more maturity than you Wayne, in that I don’t blatantly insult people over the internet. And I’ll admit, I like every living person on this planet are ignorant about something or another, but to deem someone as ignorant solely on their age is no more mature than a man opening doors for someone he finds attractive.
Age at least in modern society is NOT a representation of maturity.
Now to quickly talk about myself. I will stand up and offer my seat to an elderly person or a mother/father with their child but if I’ve already been sitting down, I shouldn’t be REQUIRED to give someone else my seat simply because they have a vagina. Now here’s one of my drawbacks, if the other person standing isn’t elderly or a parent with their child, I might offer my seat if she’s attractive otherwise I’ll just sit there quietly. But then again, I’m almost NEVER on public transportation.
If I’m already opening a door for myself or someone else, whether that be a relative or a lady and someone else is immediately behind us, I’ll continue holding the door open but I’m not going to stand there for 5 minutes letting everyone walk in. I’ll do what is convenient and be on my way. Or if someone, elderly, disabled or someone I find attractive, I’ll quickly walk up to the door and open it for them.
My time is just that, mine and I should be able to do whatever with my time as I see fit (as long as I haven’t broken any laws yadda yadda) and I shouldn’t be criticized or insulted simply because I won’t wait extra long.
So to get back on point after my long rant, don’t assume to know someone or their parents. Otherwise I’ll endlessly compare you to a major douche that felt it was necessary to insult my education and parents simply because I wasn’t a diehard atheist like he was. Oh and please show some blood respect for our men and women in uniform!
HAVE A GOOD DAY! lol
I respect that you are a man and a Marine, but that said, your choice of words make you sound immature and selfish. I believe you when you say that you do these things because you want to do them because they are good for you. When a beautiful woman (of any age) thanks you, or pays attention to you because you extended a courtesy or did something nice for her- how do you feel? I imagine that appreciation feels good, even if only for a moment. I know it does to me. Did you really mean to say that you open a door for a woman because you might get to sleep with her or have a relationship with her? Wouldn’t you extend a small kindness to anyone? If you say no, then I feel sorry for you, as you most certainly are not thinking like a gentleman- and believe me, women do appreciate a gentleman.
There are no “etiquette-police”, you are free to do as you please, however small kindnesses are what keeps the world civil and pleasant and adds joy to the day. When you say, “I don’t see the loss in doing something for my own benefit”, you are right, although living life from a position of peace, abundance and kindness has many rewards. BTW, women are always watching…and we notice and look for those thoughtful behaviors- those are the men who are worth our attention.
My answer is yes. I do extend that “courtesy” to other people, even women I don’t find attractive, but thats just my point.
People like to say they do that because as part of the ongoing daily society, it makes everything easier. Thats just incorrect in my mind. I do it regardless not because it is a general courtesy because I don’t believe in general courtesy.
I do it regardless because I don’t see myself as a rude person, so doing anything to give those around me that impression simply isn’t in my best interest. A general courtesy implies that its done just because, and theres no such thing as that. Kind acts aren’t done because people just want to, its done cause in some way or form, it benefits them. Whether that be a good feeling or a chance at a date. And theres nothing wrong with that. People are just afraid to admit it because of what words tell us that makes us.
I appreciate your honesty and would say your motives sound fairly standard for a 22-year-old guy – matches what my brothers and guy friends and their friends and college classmates around that age all admitted to. No biggie.
I would also say that most women either know this or suspect it. We’re not dumb and we do notice that our mothers don’t get as much attention when they’re alone, and our grandmothers are pretty much on their own, and the chunky, plain, self-effacing lady in church is completely ignored by men who snap into their most chivalrous selves when the well-endowed lady in the tight sweater and Juicy perfume walks in with her barely-dressed 16-year-old daughter. We get it.
And hey, you know, it’s really not a big deal. You think a girl is cute so you hold the door for her? It’s not a big deal, it’s kinda’ fun. whatever.
What’s shocking is the number of men here acting as if they are offering us a kidney and are scarred and damaged for life when we don’t immediately take them up on their generous offer with fluttering eyelashes,heaving bosoms and freshly-shaven legs peeking out from under or lady-like-length skirts. We also know that some men aren’t doing it with an open “who know where it goes and who cares” – but are opening a door with a very clear idea of what they are “owed” in return and it’s far far more than we feel is fair. THEY are the people who “killed” chivalry, if you really want to assess it. Not 22-year-old men who want to hold a door because a girl is pretty and hey, if she smiles, awesome, and if not, there will be another pretty girl in a few.
I see comments about why men shouldn’t have to do these things, relating to the fact that women that have strived for equality. This saddens me. Men, the reason women don’t respect you is because you haven’t given them a reason to. This truly is the age of weak men not fit to lead. I for one, have chosen to show that not all character is lost. I for one, have chosen to be a leader of men as well as the woman I love. Not because she cannot lead herself, nor because of a false superiority. Because, it is the man’s place to love, to guide and to cherish what he loves. Although, if I am not pursuing to strengthen the trust that my woman has for me, then why would she want to follow me? To the men that understand what I’ve written here I applaud the, for the path well beating is easier to tread.
Okay, there’s one good question in there that needs rephrasing. Why SHOULD she want to “follow” you? You’re in the lead, hmm? You are her commander? Her ruler? You should be her confidante, not her commandante. I know that you think you have avoided these cliche’s of sexism and that you’re above all that, but you’re not. I know that you are only being kind, but you’re using it for leverage, and that’s ugly. I read that and I got a little sick to my stomach, Jeffrey. Let me take this apart piece by piece.
“This truly is the age of weak men not fit to lead.” I can dig pieces of that, but as a whole it is ugly. You have assumed in this sentence that it is men’s duty to lead, that it is our role. That’s not cool, man. There is no definition of what a strong man is that you can point to and everyone will understand. There IS, however, a good definition of a strong person you could point to. That they care about themselves, they are firm in what they believe but also willing to change when they are wrong. This is not something that applies to men, only, it is not our duty to lead, there is no yoke that we are born with aside from a bag of tenders between our legs we’ve got to take care of.
“I, for one, have chosen to be a leader of men as well as the woman I love.” That’s cool that you want to be a leader, nah, I’m absolutely cool with that. Some people are born leaders and I think that’s grand. My problem is how can you say you love her if you feel it is your job to lead her? If you respected her, wouldn’t you respect her opinions and trust her to make the right choices without you having to tell her what they are? Why can’t you love her for who she is, instead of expecting her to follow you? Maybe she’s okay with the arrangement, but it’s not equality. You have put yourself above her as her “leader” and that’s a fact that you cannot talk your way out of.
“Because it is the man’s place to love, to guide, and to cherish what he loves.” WHOA, NOW. Now we’re getting downright ugly. You have a place, now, because you have testes? You’re not who you are merely because you want to be but because you were born into it? That sounds an awful lot like birthright, man. I think you mean well, but you’ve had some people in your life telling you some pretty awful lies. Have you thought about how this reflects on other men? What about effeminate men? They are wonderful people, whether they’re gay or not, and I have many of them as friends. There are men who do ballet, who cheer, who crochet. Hell, I, myself enjoy sewing and baking alongside woodworking and weightlifting. Do I fit your definition of a “man”?
“Although, if I am not pursuing to strengthen the trust that my woman has for me, then why would she want to follow me?” Now we’re getting to the heart of the dirty, rotten ugly. You’ve assumed that it is her place to follow you, presumably because she does NOT have a bag of tenders to swing. Is it because it’s easier to live in a world with predetermined roles? Does that make you MORE comfortable to think that you’re in the lead because you’re SUPPOSED to be? That’s not how you strengthen trust, man. If you want your woman to trust you, be trustworthy. That’s all it takes. Don’t expect that trust to blossom into some kind of sick master-slave relationship, wherein she accepts you as her superior and listens to you above her own conscience.
“To the men that understand what I’ve written here I applaud the, for the path well beating is easier to tread.” I don’t know who these guys are that understand and are okay with what you said, but I do have one thing to say about this. You’re totally right that the well BEATEN path is easier to tread. The thing is, you’re the one that’s on it.
bravo Paul
I love you Paul.
Paul, you’re lovely. Thank you.
If he’s Christian, what he wrote would make a lot of sense. What many people fail to realize is that we ARE different, we are not completely equal. Yes, we should do our best to reach the center but it will never be perfect & can’t be. There is a difference between a woman & a man, one is a female, one is a male. They were created to be a little different from each other & not just physically.
OH MY GOD WHY ARE THERE SO MANY PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT MALE DOMINANCE? This is starting to make me want to throw up. The idea of male dominance doesn’t just hurt women, you know. It hurts EVERYONE. Ew ew ew ew I’m just so disgusted by this thread, now. Ew oh my god how can you people congratulate Jeffrey? Bob Cole, Jess, and Sara, you are wonderful people who are appreciated and cherished. To the rest of everyone who commented on this. Ew ew ew ew ew ew please don’t ever talk to me if you see me in the real world.
Paul, if you’re single, I know like 13 single women off-hand who would love to meet you. Or your brother. Or friends. Or any other sane guys you know.
@ desinylund, different and unequal are not the same. Two entities can be different but equal.
Beautifully said, Jeffrey. You,sir, are a true gentleman.
Jeffrey is a true leading gentlemen. Thank you.
Well, the problem is that ‘chivalry’ is not something that was bestowed amongst the common folk. It was bestowed by social superiors (knights). The very act of chivalry denotes superiority by the one bestowing it.
What is noted here is chivalry 2.0, which I do extend. I extend it out of dominance over a woman in my care. Dont worry ladies: I only do this with the women who want and need thar dominance. I do not necessarily extend it to a woman in passing, though I will out of courtesy if situation suggests it. But I do temper it with our current understanding of equality. If an ablebodied woman is taking the train to work just like me, I see no need to offer my seat.
You make me physically ill. These things he has mentioned I do for everyone without question. I will walk my guy friends out to their car, no joke. I don’t do it to be dominant, I do it because it’s a fucking nice thing to do. You’re a selfish prick. This is coming from the guy who believes in selfishness, too. I believe that we have to look out for ourselves before we are able to look out for others, I just don’t believe that you have gotten to that second part, yet. I’m so grossed out by these comments that are showing up, like no joke.
Hell, I COMPLIMENT GUYS *LE GASP*. This shit isn’t stuff that needs to be done more often as a show of dominance to get what you want out of a woman, this is shit that just needs to be done for everyone. I will stop and compliment a stranger on their clothes or hair or what have you just because it’s nice. Because being good to other people IS being good to yourself. This thread has become a philosophical death trap of apologist, sexist bullshit.
I hope your 2nd paragraph is sarcastic. Otherwise I have to assume that you’re dealing with either a complex case of Napoleon syndrome or a simplistic case of “male under-endowment” for lack of a less crass term.
Since I can’t seem to reply to the comments. First, calling me sexist? Thank you. Paul, I like creating visceral reactions. And it isn’t to get what I want out of a woman; it is to give what a woman wants out of a man. BTW, that woman may be my sister, my mom, my smoke buddy…
And further, my endowment works just fine.
Now, a bit of testimony. I have been around a fair while and been through numerous philosophical incarnations. Most recently I have experienced more life satisfaction (and the women close to me appreciate it more) by being more dominant. It’s hard work having been too much of a nice guy, but worth it in the end.
I agree that we need to bring back chivalry, but we also need women to be ladies. Where’s the article of 8 things that ladies should be doing? This is something my husband and I try to model with our son and daughters, but it’s hard bringing up ladies & gentlemen in today’s society. Hard, but not impossible!
When my knight slaughters a dragon for me and brings back its beating, dripping heart to throw upon the castle’s flagstones among the rushes, I do polish his armor and tie my scarf around his lance. And then I allow him to sing poetry to me. Is there something else I should be polishing?
Read a history book. Chivalry is not at all what we want to revert back to. Call it politeness.
Amen – the best comment on here and you didn’t have to go on for three paragraphs or more to make your point – which was brilliant by the way!
Thanks for this.
East Coast Marine: You are a typical, straight, selfish, shallow man!
I guess thats my point. You call me typical, selfish, shallow because those words tell you thats what I am for doing things how I do them, but I fail to see why anyone does anything unless its not in their best interest. As I said above, I don’t consider myself a rude person, so I do things for people regardless of whether I find them attractive or not, simply because its not in my best interest to appear or seem rude in public. It could cause all sorts of problems.
But I’m sorry I think everyone here either judges too much based on what words tell them. You’re all fooling yourselves if you think your “chivalrous” or have “respect” just because your mother or father told you not to do it. Why do you think as children we still touch the stove? Your mother may tell you no, but until you find out for yourself that its hot, its not in your best interest to listen to her because damnit you want to touch that stove.
I just see the reality of the situation and to me that is, people, no matter how deep it goes or how many more overlying reasons there are, do things for themselves in the end. Sure you can be doing it for other reasons too, but in the end its always good for you as well. Human behavior actually dictates that we take care of ourselves before others. Thats no excuse for completely rude people you meet every day, but maybe they just already seem themselves as a rude person, and therefore its in their best interests to maintain that image.
I will add an example of myself here.
I love helping people, whether in the real world or online supports and I do so often. However my actions might be helpful to those in need but it isn’t with noble intentions as helping someone makes me feel good and that’s why anyone and everyone that does help people, help people because it brings them that personal satisfaction.
So JB, you might as well walk up to a police officer, firefighter or Paramedic and tell them how selfish they are too.
I know you think you’ve got human nature all figured out but you’re missing a big piece. Some people genuinely care about others. You’ll know true compassion when you feel it. It may not come until you see something that touches your heart to the extent that you feel a sharp discomfort over the suffering of another person. How do we know it’s real compassion? It’s not a pleasant feeling.
I’ve lost an unborn child and possibly the only woman I’ve ever loved. Don’t lecture me with that compassion speech. I know it better than most. It has nothing to do with that.
This is my point. People will always make themselves believe they do something because its just what you do, or because you enjoy treating other people with respect. Nobody does things just because. Chivalry, respect, kindness isn’t just done because people want to. Its done because in the end it benefits you.
Stop focusing so much on what word you can use for that and focus on how it makes you feel. It benefits you. Maybe it benefits you because it makes you feel good, or maybe it makes you look good, which in turn makes you feel good.
Someone used a firefighter as an example. I bet they don’t wake up every morning with the thought of throwing themselves into a burning building because they just like to do it for other people. They do it because they feel good about saving another person, which in turn is in their best interest, making themselves feel good and happy.
Thank you for clarifying your sentiments. Of course, people do things that are in their best interest. The point is, people should consider their motivation and extend their behaviors with consideration of others, not just because it serves their own best interest. The difference is attitude- any behavior regardless of how good or kind or just is selfish if the prime motivation is “what will it get me?” When we give simply for the act of giving- without expectation of recompense, we give freely and with an open heart or open mind. When you give only with expectation of reward, you actually limit the opportunity to be appreciated and thus to receive in return.
@SheWantsToAppreciateU
Is that still not doing it for the same reason? I understand what you mean, to give without expecting rewards, that doing it just for the sole reason of “what does it get me” is whats selfish. But ultimately you already know the very nature of that will, no doubt, earn you praise from others, which makes you feel good, and that good feeling benefits you. No I’m not saying you do it because you know that will happen but this is the perfect example of what people think general courtesy, or chivalry, or respect is.
People shouldn’t be defined as chivalrous, or respectful, or courteous because they do things without expecting to receive anything. Hell if that were the case the whole world would eventually become dysfunctional, because at some point people would get tired of not being appreciated for it, whether they admit it or not. Because even when someone gives without expecting to receive they still KNOW, that very act will eventually give them something in return.
I mean lets say we work at the same building 4 days out of the week. and for the first three days I hold the door open for you as we enter the workplace and you do not say thank you. I don’t expect you to, and I don’t feel in any way shape or form changed, but lets say on the 4th day I do the same, and for whatever reason you say thank you on the 4th day. Hey thats a nice little surprise! It made me feel good, it made me feel appreciated. Sure I still didn’t expect you to do it, but you better bet that I’ll keep doing it now and for anyone else. You can say thats not the point but isn’t it? We all KNOW that eventually, giving without expecting to get still eventually returns a reward.
So then if we can’t judge people by that, if we cannot define chivalry, courtesy, respect, based on that think about this. Can we not instead judge them based on why they do it for themselves? Is a person not a good person because they feel happy and good when they hold the door open for someone as apposed to someone who feels good when they murder someone?
Agreed! And Ladies… Let us behave like ladies, and I do not mean as in one from the red-light district, if you get my drift. How can a man possibly treat you with respect and adoration, when you do not treat yourself as such?
Some years ago I was at a lakefront hotel in Seattle.”Talk of the town Hotel” or something I think it was called. You could feed the seagulls right outside your window from the lake–they would fly right up and take the food out of your hand.
Anyway, one evening I was standing inside the lobby door to the parking lot and a girl came walking up, probably late 20s ‘goth’ish. As she approached I smiled politely and opened the door for her to walk through as I was already standing there in the jamb waiting for a friend. She stopped in her tracks, never made eye contact, paused and then said:
“Oh. No thanks. ”
Snarkily, I might add, as if i were some piece of human scum because I was a man who dared assault her with such a notion of treating her like some weak dog. And then she proceeded to walk all the way around to the other side door to exit the hotel. There were three elderly women siting on a bench in the lobby facing the door I was at and witnessed the whole thing, and all three of them had a smirk on their faces. I couldn’t tell for sure but I had the impression they were thinking, “you go young lady –teach men a lesson”
Fast forward to the present. Last night I went to the supermarket and was walking in with my 6 year old son, and held the door open for a fortyish tall woman who was walking out. She hesitated and then walked right by me without saying thank you. Just looked ahead as if i didn’t exist and refused to acknowledge the gesture for fear of giving up some sort of delusional ground in her quest not to feel inferior. It annoyed the hell out of me considering it was in front of my son who I always teach to be polite to everyone. So he witnesses this woman not returning the consideration and what does that tell him? That a grown woman shouldn’t have to say thank you to a grown man for his politeness should he ever do the same thing?? That women look down on men even though his wonderful mother teaches him to be polite??
I don’t want him to grow up being crapped on because of him taking that for granted obviously. In regards to this woman feeling ‘inferior’–notice i didn’t say ‘equal’, because thats what I truly feel like much of that behavior is about–an inherent inferiority complex that some (not all, just some)women want to blame men for, rather than accept each others differences as strengths. Im a handsome enough, well built tall strong man and had to wonder if that played a role in any of it in the sense that I visually represent the opposition. Granted there are alot of idiot boys/guys/men who I want to verbally slap upside the head out there, who don’t do us other men any favors at all in the human interaction department but I wonder if I were a young boy would these women have treated me that way or a male with a disability?Im sure they would thank the young boy, so what changes when that boy gets older? Why should that boy be any less deserving as a man of a returned gesture of gratitude from a woman? Its gotten rude and out of control. They complain of impoliteness from men but then when we behave politely, many punish us for it. It harkens back to younger dating years when women observably gravitated and rewarded the men who treated them badly, but as boys they’re always being taught to be polite.
Me? I was always polite until the other persons behavior required me to be a d&*k in return, and it would bring balance back into it. It was always as if I were being tested to see how strong I was.
Before I met my wife, I ‘dated’ a girl from the gym who always went on about how ‘independent’ she was and how she should be able to have all sorts of male friends, complete strangers to me that she should be able to go out to dinner with on her own, but within the context of a ‘committed’ relationship. Id never dated a woman like that, who had such a hard time giving up such an indulgence and couldn’t put herself in the position of picturing me doing the same thing. One time I was out with a buddy and we saw her in a restaurant with a guy when she told me she was meeting a ‘friend’ out of town for dinner. So when this caused obvious problems for our dating relationship, during the breakup I quipped ” what the hell do you want from me anyway?” Her response was ” Someone to take care of me.”
Dumbfounded I said ” Well which is it–are you independent, or do you want someone to take care of you?”
Dead silence like a deer caught in headlights.
I broke it off with her.
Thank god.
The thing is, being taken care of , certainly does not suggest ownership of another person–it means you CARE about them. And theres a difference between being independent WITHIN the context of a relationship as opposed to being independent OUTSIDE the context of a relationship. One has respect for the others contribution, and one point of view does not.
Now Im married to a beautiful, intelligent, wonderful woman who doesn’t question our roles and doesn’t need to have her cake and eat it too. We’ve been together for ten years. Do we have our problems, sure, who doesn’t but when we argue it doesn’t last more than a half an hour. And we treat each other with respect. I respect and admire her pride in herself as a woman in the traditional sense, for lack of a better term and she respects and admires me as a man the way nature intended.
Its natural and easy. We both have our careers and beautiful children and no silly, self absorbed insecure agendas get in the way of that.
I envy you mate.
Don’t let ignorant people change you. That’s all that I can tell myself I wouldn’t drop a door on anyone, man woman, young or old. IT’S RUDE. I don’t think when anyone holds a door for me there’s an underlying meaning, it’s the basis of humanity. And when ppl can’t look away from their phone or bother to even nod a thank you I wonder whats wrong with these savages. I am a woman and holding the door for me means you are a decent person that’s realizes hes not the only person on the planet.
I’m not really sure what you mean by your roles and the way nature intended you to be but doing things your loved ones AND strangers just to be civilized doesn’t have to be fundamentally about gender roles and can be more about being a decent person.
I have my own little door story and it may give you second thoughts about your own views. As you appear to be a pragmatic man and have a certain amount of insight into human nature I don’t think my words will be wasted.
I used to live in north Dallas where there is a predominant culture of male chivalry, among other things. I was walking through a door at the college I attended as saw a young man approaching it. Wanting to be a kind and chivalrous woman, I opened the door for him, and he refused to walk through it. He stood there and waited until I let go of the door handle and then he took it. It was a good 30 seconds! He said he would not walk through a door that a woman had opened. “My mother raised me the old-fashioned way”, he said.
Suddenly I felt reduced to someone who was viewed to be incompetent and small, not able to take care of myself and not even allowed to open a door for myself, much less a man. And all of the sexist jokes, the advertisements where women are in lingerie and men are fully clothed, the comments that those around me had made as a child about girls vs. boys, the “you throw like a girl” remarks that were directed to anyone who didn’t have a great pitching arm, the attitudes about women being the weaker sex that have defined human culture since the beginning of time, came flooding back and I felt that no matter what I did in life, no matter my IQ or my accomplishments, my efforts were not worth as much because I was still a woman.
Not only did I feel reduced small and inconsequential in comparison to this young man because he had the sole advantage of being male, I felt anger toward him simultaneously for causing me to feel this way. And, in a small way that I believe is inevitable for any woman though she may not care to admit or acknowledge it, anger towards the entire male population from the beginning to the end of time. (well, maybe not till the end.. that remains to be seen)
I walked through the door that the young sexist man opened because I am not the confrontational type. I let him have his way instead of walking through the door on the opposite side. I did not want to offend him. I wish I could go back to that moment and tell him that if he wanted to be chivalrous he would accept my kind gesture rather than making me feel less than equal. If that young, skinny boy with the Texas accent had been a tall, graying, handsome, intelligent gentleman (as you claim to be) then I can tell you how I would have felt. I would have felt even more angry. Because in the presence of a tall, strong, intelligent man who speaks condescendingly to me, I feel like a small, incompetent child. Even though my intellect may match or exceed his, and his accomplishments may be nothing more than my own or even pale in comparison, there is something inherently intimidating about this type of man. Either you love them, or you are envious. And having internalized all I have been told is negative about my sex in my 36 years, I envy them. I envy you, with your ability to see yourself as on top. It’s a man’s world, and if we don’t believe that we’re fooling ourselves.
I have very little hope of this ever changing. We are inherently different, and inherently imperfect. Thus, we will imperfectly interpret our differences to mean that we are unequal. I do not think that the world will ever change.
But that doesn’t mean I’m giving up. Or I wouldn’t have wasted my time replying to you.
Ok first of all accept your role as a Woman and realize that Men are trying to be classy when helping you. There is a reason why there are two sexes, and there is a physical as well as emotional difference between them. As a women be glad that some man took his time to offer you the door. Yea it was awkward when he stood there for you but don’t make it into a battle of the sexes.
There are two sexes because two sets of genes make for stronger offspring, more likely to survive. Organisms that replicate all by themselves are not so strong.
What if her role as “woman” (as you’ve defined it, of course, in your all-knowing maleness) clashes with her God-given role as a human being (and woman, because God made her a woman and will decide what she is to do with that as well)? Should she worry more about your ego and self-image? Or fully embrace and live up to the calling God has placed on her life?
As a 31 year old female, I have never once been able to wrap my mind around those women’s mentality (the ones who so rudely shunned your polite door-holding gestures). I just don’t get where they’re coming from…it’s like they think that 1 + 2 = 4. It just doesn’t add up. It’s silly, in my opinion. No, not just silly…it’s warped. And it’s honestly extremely rude.
I LOVE men like you. I wish there were more of them. Kudos to you and your wife for teaching your son to be like you.
I can’t understand it and it would be rude if I did it, but I have enough respect for the intelligence of my fellow female humans to believe that they have their valid reasons for their choices. Women aren’t dumb. Perhaps they have had very negative experiences in the past with men who offered them similar “no strings attached” favors, and have decided to forego them. Or perhaps they just left work where a chauvinistic boss or coworker was being offensive and this was the straw that broke the camel’s back. Or perhaps one of them has an abusive/jealous male partner who over-reacts when he sees her interact in even the most innocent of ways with any other man, so it was her way of avoiding a beating later. You don’t know. Extend some freaking grace to your fellow (wo)man and stop being so judgmental of every freaking thing she does, wears, says, or thinks.
RG- there are just a lot of rude and “unschooled” people out there. Please don’t let them stop you from being kind-(I don’t think it has, btw.) Applause to you for the conscientious way you seem to be raising your child(ren). When people act like jerks, it is a reflection on them, not you. I think a lot of women have never learned to accept gestures of respect from a stranger and operate from ignorance or fear. I think they also think “independent” means that they cannot accept for fear of appearing weak or incapable. To have your simple act of respect rejected is like a slap in the face.
The way they interpret independence makes them appear aloof and socially isolated. When you held the door for a woman did you ever think she was incapable of opening it herself? Probably not. Had she acknowledged your kindness with respect, she would actually have shown how strong she was- as a strong, feminine woman who could appreciate a man for being manly.
It sounds like you found a lovely woman with whom to share your life and that is the best reward.
That is how it should be. I think feminism and bitchiness has ruined women today, while the new gangster, “pimp” image has ruined men.
@Jigger Jones – I agree with your first point but the reason that the “…new gangster, ‘pimp’ image…” exists is because too many women have rewarded and continue to reward such behavior with their sexual and other favors.
If women are so powerful they can turn gentlemen into pimps and back again, how come they’re not powerful enough to get men to listen to what they’re saying?
Personally, I’d be offended if I was in a relationship with a man who insisted that he open all the doors (car doors, building doors, whatever) for me. As a person first and foremost, and as a woman second, I appreciate the offer every once in a while–and I equally appreciate being able to open the door for my man. It might be called chivalry, it might be called politeness, but managing such a simple thing as door-opening FOR me makes me feel like you think I am weak or an idiot.
thats the point. You feel like your weak or an idiot and project that extreme insecurity onto him by saying it makes YOU feel like he thinks that and therefore you make him responsible for your feelings rather than be responsible for them yourself, which is in fact an expression of weakness which is what you dont want to be perceived as in the first place. The reality is, from a male point of view, opening a door or what have you is a gesture on his part that communicates his willingness to be there for you, support you, care, protect and provide (if desire or need be)–and do all said things for the possiblility of children you may or may not have. Its Natural for a male to do it. Its unnatural for a female to reject that when all of those qualities are what she naturally looks for a in a male. Somehow thats lost on you and youve demonized him for your feelings of weakness over a simple gesture.
That said –if opening a door is in the context of doing it for a stranger–then its simple politeness that should be rewarded with simple gratitude. ill perceived sexism shouldn’t be a part of it.
RG, I liked your comments, especially,” (he)communicates his willingness to be there for you, support you, care, protect and provide (if desire or need be)”. I wonder if the same women who continuously reject such polite or kind behavior would also be offended by a male stranger who intervened to help them if they were “threatened” such as being harassed or assaulted. I think those men are referred to as heroes or “guardian angels.” Just sayin’
Why does this make you feel weak or an idiot? It is a kindness, pure and simple. Some men open doors for other men. That doesn’t make either of them less of a man. I enjoy it when a man opens a door for me and I don’t feel weak or dumb at all. I think he just cares enough to open it. When someone does nice things like that for me, it makes me want to do nice things for them. Kindness is catching…at least for most of us.
Well said, Dianne! I feel you completely.
you got it, Dianne. Nicely said.
I absolutely love this post. This is my first time reading your blog, but I’ll definitely subscribe to it now. Keep posting 🙂
This post should be a litmus test for any prospective partners. if they like it, run.
i agree. Ironically, it was shared on facebook by a guy a dated briefly right before I met my now-husband. I could never put my finger on my reservations, but he was always huge on chivalry and short on actually listening to the things I hated/liked/wanted (we always did what he wanted to do, but by golly, he held those doors and opened the car doors EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.) I thought exactly what you posted when I saw this! Now it makes sense.
Reblogged this on _ovECamp and commented:
Very very relatable.
Reading the responses here, it is no wonder the world is so messed up. I personally love it when my husband opens the door for me. I actually like it any time someone — male or female — holds the door for me. I always say thank you. They are being polite and I appreciate it. I hold the door open for others, too, even guys. I especially hold the door open for the elderly (because when I am old one day I will appreciate it being done for me), mothers with young children (because I’ve been there) and people with their hands full for whatever reason. But, I like to think I’m a pretty nice person overall and I just treat others the way I would like to be treated.
People are so busy trying to look for hidden agendas that they can’t even accept an act of kindness without suspicion and that is very sad to me. Maybe the guy is like the marine dude who posted above and he is just trying to be nice in an attempt to possibly get lucky. No one is under any obligation to reward him for doing that. It is a ploy he uses, but women don’t need to waste time trying to figure out his motives — just say thank you and move on. If women are cautious with their intimacy, he won’t be able to trick anyone into sleeping with him just because he opens the door for her. He’ll either meet women looking to hook up, too, or the ones who want a decent man will have time to find out what kind of guy he is before things go too far. A man holding open the door is not a threat or trying to put you back into the kitchen barefoot and pregnant. He is just a man holding a door open.
My husband is a gentleman and I love him for it. He does everything on that list and it makes me feel loved and special. In turn, I do many things for him to make him feel loved and special. And yet, we still have equality in our marriage. We both do household chores. We both changed dirty diapers and gave the kids a bath. There is nothing that is considered a “man’s job” or a “woman’s job”. We are a team and we each do our part to take care of whatever needs to be done. Being nice and respectful to one another is how we let each other know that we value each other and we appreciate each other. I don’t expect my husband to be a gentleman, but I sure do appreciate him being one!
amen,. thank you, finally. we can take the genders out of this and just say ppl overall could all do better.
Scars-
You appreciate that your husband is a gentleman; he probably loves you even more because you show your appreciation for him and that’s why you two have such a good thing. Its all about respect. You are a blessed lady.
Women seem to be pissed off that men are now frequently treating them as if they were other men. Just so you know a man that is treating you with extra care and consideration either wants in your pants or has internalized a misogynistic mindset (though he may not know it) or most frequently both. Look to see how he treats men that are lesser than him to see his true character. People *should* give basic respect to everyone, but continued respect needs to be earned for both men and women.
Who is pissed off? You have the women who are saying they AREN’T feminists and they would love to make you a sandwich if you would hold their doors. So that should make you happy. And then you have the women telling you up front that they ARE feminists and they are more than happy to get their own doors, so you’re welcome to treat them like men if it floats your boat.
Is there some horrible reason that you can’t just ask a woman who interests you, “Do you feel you’re a feminist or are you comfortable making my sandwiches in exchange for me opening your doors?” We’re not incapable of expressing ourselves. A woman will tell you and you can take it from there. If you don’t like her answer, go find another woman and try again.
This whole thing makes my skin crawl. If you have a vagina you are subject to behaviors ranging from common courtesy to creepy hovering and you have to prove you deserve it by being a lady.
We–male and female–hold the door because it oils the wheels of public life. We give up our seat because someone needs it more than we do. We help people in and out of cars when they need it. Men and women all need respect and thoughtfulness..
When I was in college, the guys held the door for the girls and the girls held the door for the guys. The guy helped the girl with her coat and then she turned around and helped him with his. He lit her cigarette and she lit his (yes it was that long ago).
This whole business of reserving courtesy for women, and then demanding that they earn it and be grateful, literally–literally–makes my skin crawl.
I totally agree with this. It made mine crawl as well
absolutely!
It really is totally sleezy and creepy and weird. And it always brings out out the hair-sniffing creepers to argue for women who shave their legs and wear heels or whatnot.
Chivalry is dead. So are good women. Men did all of these things. Then feminism began. You wanna be equal to men? Get your own doors and pull out your own seat. Don’t ask for chivalry one one hand, and equality on the other. And to all guys who do this in hopes to get laid….stop, just stop…that doesn’t work.
There may not be too many ladies out there, but there are tons of good women. But thanks for at least warning women that you plan to slam doors in their faces if you hear one word about equality.
It’s a big circle. Yes women need to be more lady like and in doing that we can hopefully bring out the chivalry and respect in men. AND it goes vise versa as well. For the men on this thread arguing every point possible to not be chivalrous SMH.
I love how everyone assumes that chivalry meant women were respected. Have you done any actual historical research at all? Even just back to the 1950s?
You’re lucky enough to be born into an era where you’re getting more respect and have more rights and abilities and recognition as a woman than women in any geographical location in any time in history. That is worth opening a few of your own doors.
I love hearing a man bring this challenge to light. We know you’re out there, but the evidence is sadly scarce, especially in big city like NY! Thank you for being among the minority of men!
Don’t forget taking her topcoat off, and putting it back on. The sight of a woman struggling with her coat ought to make a man cringe.
I really appreciate a man who remembers to take my parasol and is quick with the smelling salts when my stays begin to feel a bit confining or when I suffer from an attack of the vapors.
thank you for the men that believe in this despite the others that are using excuses to tell them that good, basic manners are a waste of time. we hope you have kids and pass it on!
Chivalry hasn’t died, it simply followed being ladylike wherever it went! Both need to be resuscitated!
Reblogged this on jarizna.
First… I agree with the giving up the chair thing for an old lady. However, I am a young and vigorous young lady. I would also give up my chair for an old lady, or someone looking more weary that I. Pulling out the chair for me, well thanks. Again, I find it kind of annoying. I am not a toddler. Are you going to put the napkin in my lap too?
Opening doors… hmm… I HOPE someone will open the door for me if I am carrying something. Also, if it is a group of people it is just more efficient. One person holds the door, everyone gets in faster. And I open doors all the time for people, to be respectful. “Chivalry” seems to only have a male gender bias, but what about the ladies who also do this?
I do agree with calling about a date. It’s more courteous. The guys I know who do that MASS text everyone about a date invite. Calling makes it more special. IF your just friends though and you want to “hang” then texting is fine.
Again, compliments and praise go BOTH WAYS. Guys also like to be complimented..
Walking her to her door. THAT is actually kind of sweet. Just in case she can’t get in…
Well said, Rachel. Portraying acts of kindness such as giving up a seat to an older or disabled person, holding doors open for people or dropping people off while you look for a parking spot in the context of male:female relations just makes this seem creepy. We should all strive to increase the level of politeness in the world by acting in ways we would all appreciate regardless of the sex of the person we are being courteous to.
Some of the acts listed should be done by both men and women as a respect to people, such as holding the door open; I consider it to be extremely rude when someone walks through a door, and doesn’t take the few seconds to keep it open for the person behind them. Or giving up your seat, every time I ride a bus and see an elderly person or a parent with their young kid come on to a packed bus, I give up my seat. It’s just being considerate and respectful to others, having some possession of humanity.
Yes. Thank you.
I think one of the most admirable things a women said to me was ‘who does that anymore? gross’ in talking about how people think its necessary to open a door for females. I respected her even more because she was a human, with goals and a good path in life and values and she was the same towards me. How about we all treat each other with good manners, because they are humans, not because of societal gender roles that promote inequality and patriarchy.
Surely, if you says one thing should be this exact way based on gender, then where does it stop? If a man has to act like a man and a women a women then its on the same line as saying men deserve positions of power and higher pay then women.
Think about what you’re promoting. Most violence against women in the modern world is because of gender discrimination of both men and women.
“If a man has to act like a man and a women a women then its on the same line as saying men deserve positions of power and higher pay then women. ” What?? No it doesn’t. Do/did you date “manly” or masculine women? Opposites attract. The nature of human attraction is masculine to feminine. (Even same sex couples generally have one partner who is more “masculine” and one who is more “feminine” in their way of interacting with each other). Men and women are equal, but not the same. Respect is about treating people with dignity and as you would like to be treated. It has nothing to do with power or salary…
My point is that you’re giving misogynists ammo. If people are expected to act a particular way because society says thats the proper way to act based on sex/gender/race/sexual orientation etc, then you’re only encouraging a mentality that people are diffrent and deserve diffrent treatment.
It is no diffrent then arguing restricting freedoms, if you can take a couple freedoms away, where do you draw the line? If Women and Men are expected to act a particular way, then where do you draw the line? When does it suddenly become wrong to suggest a women have particular ‘roles’ in life. Honestly if a mans views on women are ‘traditional’ don’t be suprised when he thinks its also a womens job to wash the dishes or scrub the floor and make him dinnner everyday.
And for goodneas sakes when you find yourself for your girl in the lobby of an obgyn and a woman walks in in labor give her your seat!
It makes me feel special when someone opens doors – car or otherwise. I always say thank you and am raising my son to do the same. Chivalry cannot die. Thanks for sharing.
You are condemning your son to a life as a beta orbiter in the friendzone.
Why does this have to be confined to gender and/or sex? Why can’t we do nice things for other people regardless? I would like to see a man open the door for another man. I’m a healthy 27 year old woman. That 60 year old guy doesn’t need to be giving his seat up on the bus for me. I’m not a helpless weakling. I think this “gentleman” act, when targeted solely at women, is incredibly patronizing. This whole idea that a woman owes you something for being courteous or that you’re at least scoring points is incredibly offensive. Help others for the sake of helping others.
Who are these people bemoaning the loss of being “ladylike” and to them what does “ladylike” mean? At one point, it meant relegation to the home (not to mention no political autonomy). If you mean manners, I have those. And I would hope to god that men would have them, too. Your anatomy isn’t a get-out-of-jail-free card when it comes to common decency. Does it mean acting a wilting flower/damsel in distress? I’m sorry there are men out there so insecure that they need women to constantly rescue, but life isn’t like that. Men and women help each other, especially in relationships. It’s not one-sided. The whole narrow and rigid idea of gender roles has been done away with because they were unrealistic and confining
Thank you. Couldn’t agree more.
Reblogged this on Golden Gems from Grandma.
Reblogged this on The Happy Wanderer and commented:
Chivalry is not dead, not if you keep it alive. Ladies, assuming you don’t have a deep problem with men showing this type of respect not only should you let them but it’s ok to subtly demand (ok, maybe encourage is a better word) it. As the younger men are coming up, so many of these things are falling aside. Women with sons, raise them with these acts in mind. Ladies who date men who may not do these things, it’s ok to let them know you want and appreciate them. Men, take note. While the bra burners are still out there, for every one of those there is a woman who remembers these kindnesses.
Three times in my life have I had older men stand when I’ve walked into a room, and I will never forget all three of those times. It made them feel like gentlemen and made me feel like a lady. It elevates behavior and mindfulness on both sides. Long live chivalry, may it never die.
It’s usually the girls that think they deserve chivalry that don’t. What you put out is what you get back, and that goes for everyone.
Many people do find these things demeaning and unwelcome. I am disabled. I have taken falls because some random man has tried to “assist me” unexpectedly with coats and chairs. Also, if I need a door opened for me because I am in my scooter or I am juggling a cane, purse and shopping bags, I am perfectly capable of asking for assistance. I do not let doors swing back and hit people and expect the same courtesy from others, but there is no need to jump out of your chair and open the door unless you are getting paid to be a doorman! This nonsense fell by the wayside for a reason. Please do not revive it.
Chivalry is about more than just treating a woman like a lady. Chivalry is about treating ANY person with the respect and dignity you should show the people closest to you. You hold the door open for HER? Hold the door open another 30 seconds for the next couple walking in. You help HER to her seat? Help the next woman to her seat as well! Chivalry isn’t about impressing the woman you are sleeping with – it’s about being generous and kind to all kinds of people.
The old “Gentlemen” did it for the right reasons to …
And what reasons would those be?
In the article he said in the old days men did chivalry because they thought women were weak. I believe real gentlemen did it because they were gentlemen.
If you believe it, then it must be true.
In the medieval “old days,” when a farmer’s daughter or peasant’s daughter got married, “le droit de signeur” gave the lord of the manor the right to take her virginity.
I hold doors, give up seats, rush-to-help-people and let cars go … for everyone … constantly, and purely as a [vain] hope of triggering positive reactions in people so that they may do the same for others (hoping to spawn virtuous-cycles/trees and pay-it-forward reactions)
I do this for no personal gain (actually at a considerable loss given how much in time and money I’ve spent rescuing people) but purely because *someone* ought to.
Realizing that many women know that many guys hold doors for them to ogle them as they pass by, I do so backhandedly (cross-body, so my back is to them = impossible to be staring).
I still open doors for everyone despite being yelled at by a few feminists
But I don’t pull back chairs at tables … it is SO out of place today that it causes more mental distress and helps nothing at all, especially as it was a gesture largely relevant to hoop-skirts and not modern clothing … and besides, if I were to pull back my girlfriend’s chair it would just roll *her* (unless she had her wheel-locks on, in which case there would be no movement)
If we want to live in a better world, we need to act like it and try to make the world better.
I appreciate when a man holds the door for me because I’m short and slight and I know it sounds really wimpy, but lots of doors are heavier than I am. Men are stronger and bigger and to open the door just makes them stronger by working the muscles. Plus, neither gender appreciates anymore how little good it does for a woman to strain herself physically even when young. It takes the stamina out of her that she will need to bear children. But that’s because these days everything is about sex and people don’t think about women as potential child bearers anymore. This is why chivalry is dead.
So you think women are baby machines.
You raise a point – perhaps we should ban women from the Olylmpics so they will not over-exert themselves and potentially strain their babymakers during their peak childbearing years?
[…] read an article on chivalry recently that sparked my decision to even post this. Yes, chivalry is nice, and no […]
Why are there so many women responding to this?
“I think men should treat me like royalty for no reason and expect nothing in return. Furthermore, there should be absolutely no expectations on my part, because I’m owed this treatment by all men, all the time, because I’m a woman.”
No shit your entitled complex would approve of this message. You don’t need to keep telling us.
1. A lot of women posting here are saying the exact opposite.
2. A lot of women who agree with the article are interpreting it as applying to their husbands. Which is, you have to admit, a bit different that expecting this kind of treatment from every man everywhere who doesn’t know them and doesn’t owe them anything.
Sorry out side of give up ur seat and hold door is right for they are what a man should do in a relationship. The other two no only give up seat to elderly man or woman, pregnant, child under 6 and disabled and hold door for wife other than that equal rights mean first come first served otherwise we go back to father knows best and I want total control over everything a hot meal when get home, and not hear a peep out of her until I speak to her
I’m all about equality but I have to say, I’m always a little impressed with the guy that holds the elevator door open so that women can walk in/out first. Completely unnecessary but the kind gesture does not go unnoticed.
This post is offensively sexist. While I agree on the wonders of chivalry but, ultimately, nothing upsets me more than double standards. There is no reason why a man should have to do this for a woman and leave a man out in the cold. In the same way, there is no reason my fellow women can’t do these to either sex.
Specifically, I took issue with the first three.:
1-Why should a man have to give up his seat for an equally abled woman? If we are all about equality, we can’t demand to be treated like a wilting flower. I also don’t see women get up for the elderly yet the male is always expected to, because of the old fashioned views.
2-Unneccesary, I can pull out my own chair.
3-Open he doors for her but other men are left to get it in their face? No, if you’re going to open the door for a woman why not open the door for a man as well. This gendered chivalry is why it should remain dead.
I have a question for, where are the sources for these statistics? Your argument is flawed and sexist (as well as sensationalized). We are more than capable of doing things you men think we can’t. If you really want to be a “gentleman” then do these with everyone you meet and not just women.
I am offended that you think men do these things for women because they think you can’t. It’s offensively sexist that you think men are that stupid.
We do these things because we love and respect women and do our small parts to take care of them where we can, even if they don’t need it.
It’s a way to show affection, perhaps if you saw it for what it was you wouldn’t be so needlessly “offended.”
Good day.
@Ava- Unlike most of the women on here, you’re at least honest about yourself. Too many women, both on here and in life, want to be equal, unless they don’t.
Bob, who are the women on this board who want to be equal unless they don’t?
My thoughts reading this:
http://hayleysheaff.blogspot.com/2014/02/i-dont-mind-if-chivalry-is-dead.html
I love your article 🙂
Sigh.. I’ve never had a girlfriend, but these acts are just common sense, la doy.
[…] […]
I have no idea where any of y’all are from but down here in Texas we don’t call these things chivalry, we call it being a gentleman. My husband and I have two sons who are 23 and 20. They were taught to hold doors open, etc from the time they could walk. Our oldest asked his dad One time why he had to open the door and he was told it is what gentleman do. They were also taught to say “Yes sir and no sir”. I still say yes sir when talking to my elders and I am 51. People don’t take the time to teach their children these things. Truly sad.
Being a gentleman is great, I do it all the time. But in MODERN days these are acts ALL people should do not just men. Yes sir and no sir are a type of communication. Using other titles is not disrespectful.
In modern days the woman should do this as well. We are equal are we not?
@Derek – When it’s convenient for a woman, yes. If it becomes inconvenient for a woman, no.
Reblogged this on Post Grad… Into the Real World….
Ugg, I’m sorry, NO. I can do all of these things for myself, thank you very much. This is just insulting and belittling to me.
Oh, get over yourself. These are meant to be compliments, and kindness, not belittle you as a human! When did kindness become insulting? Damn.
Amen Sedalia!
Yes, thank you. I can’t stand that bratty attitude.
Well said, Sedalia.
Belittle? Most women can do this for themselves, but if you ever find a man who does these things you have found a good all around fine gentleman!
Amen!
It’s always been insulting and travels hand-in-hand with hostility: https://medium.com/get-bullish/5088b50ec7d
Doesn’t matter what they are supposed to be. If your actions come off as insulting, or the recipient finds them insulting, then stop. Telling her to get over herself just makes it worse.
If you find this insulting, it only shows your ignorance of what it means. The point of a man holding a door or pulling out a chair is not to insinuate the woman is weak and should not do it. It is to suggest such tasks are beneath her because she is a princess worthy of honor and respect. Therefore, when you refuse to let a man treat you like this, you are belittling yourself.
It’s not insulting, it’s choice.
For some, it’s not belittling ones self, it’s recognizing ones self and their independence. If you want those things and find a partner that wants to provide them, that’s great! but no one should be told what is “supposed” to be. that’s the point.
Grow up. Women are NOT princesses. Women are NOT royalty, nor should they want to be. Women are HUMAN BEINGS. Flawed human beings – exactly as men are. All humans should want to and strive for EQUALITY. Everyone should strive to be as good as, but not better than, other human beings. No one is superior to another merely because of the parts between their legs, nor the color of their skin, nor age, etc. Arrogant women need to get over themselves. Then they need to go research pedestal/gutter syndrome. We are not trash, but we are NOT royalty. We are living beings. It’s that simple.
Oh and remember, princesses are stupid little girls. Funny how you don’t want to be a QUEEN.
@ Gallimimus, yes, good point, it should be a choice. And one has to be careful with that “supposed to” phrase. One should communicate with their partner and figure out what they like and don’t like. But no one should ever expect a partner to be mindful of all these little extra tasks they want them to perform on a daily basis. Its a nice thing but don’t require it. I think most men mean well when they do these things, they probably don’t think they are being insulting. Best thing to do is to just gently laugh and let him know I can handle it on my own. That way no feelings are hurt. people should just do helpful things for each other, it’s courteous not chivalrous. Chivalry is sexist and negative but being polite is positive no matter if it’s a man or woman.
@Truth I believe that women are Royalty. This has to do with my religious beliefs but even without those beliefs it is easy to see there are a lot more differences between men and women then just their reproductive organs. Women are Special, they have a more caring nature and gentleness that is drastically needed today in society. My respect for women is why I do these things.
women aren’t princesses. lol
Very well said Courtney…..
Not every woman is a princess though. You have to earn that respect. If she is so, and doesn’t mind, then I am more than happy to do these things, though I see for the most part, more women than not are a bit put off when you do these things. They feel it belittles and insults them. If she is comfortable with it, then I have no problem doing this. Just like if a man is kind, thoughtful, and caring, he should be treated like a king.
It has nothing to do with “insulting and belittling” you and everything to do with showing you respect. I will accept nothing less than a gentleman.
I agree with you Anna! Accepting nothing less than a gentleman really narrows down your choices! It really shows who is the black sheep. My fiancé and i went out to a restaurant one day and he pulled out my seat for me. As we were eating, an older man comes by and says, “Young man, I just wanted to let you know that you are a gentleman for pulling this young lady’s chair out. I don’t see too much chivalry among young folks today. ” My fiancé opens the doors for me and sometimes when i open the door to get myself out of the car, he will say, “wait, let me get the door for you.” hahaa he’s so sweet and people really need to bring back chivalry!!
i agree with you anna, that it is about respect. i am a stroke survivor wheelchair bound n use of only 1 hand, i can open a door to let myself in or out however i am highly appreciative of when a young man chooses to do so for me. i also teach my son to be a gentleman, that seems lacking in this day and age
Then you will be sorely disappointed, because every man is different. There is not some penultimate ideal we must aspire to, we will be ourselves. I, for one, will never look for “a lady,” instead, I will wait for a human being to come along and blow my mind with their individuality and self-confidence. When that happens, I will treat them the way they want to be treated, not the way society says I should treat them.
You sound like a militant fem nazi! You’re type is usually a butch in a lesbian relationship
It’s easy to throw out extremist buzzwords @Don Rockot. It’s a lot harder to try and understand the perspective of the feminist movement and why we want equality, not to be treated special because of a vagina.
@ Donnie boy, your type is usually castrated and been sodomized once too often in prison. Go back, your hubby is waiting for you.
Wow Don. “You’re” type is usually someone who doesn’t know the difference between “your” and “you’re”.
Really, Don? And how much do you know about lesbian relationships? I happen to be in one, and my butch wife does all those chivalrous things for me!
i think what @don said is funny, and probably true. Also, @what? wow way to attempt a retort by resorting to ad hominem, you’re not very smart are you? Usually the ones who can’t come up with anything, desperately end up trying to make a point by correcting “grammar”.
Omfg thank you for this, I haven’t gotten to laugh at an ignorant neckbeard in ages. 10/10 would lol again
YES! Equality is about doing deeds for each other–no matter gender or socialized norms. I can do this for my partner, and my partner can do it for me. To say only a man should do this is the belittling part.
That would get horribly confusing. Males do better than they know what’s expected of them. No it doesn’t have anything to do with intelligence 🙂 It’s the way we think. We prioritize and focus on the relevant task. We get confused when we have to re-prioritize on the fly like having to think about whether or not our date is going to think pulling her chair out is insulting or required. I think it’s why so many of us just choose not to do it anymore. We don’t know what’s expected.
Woman prioritize and focus, too, you know, but it sounds like you think being on a date with a woman is something you should be able to do on autopilot.
Oh put a sock in it. See, this is exactly why chivalry is essentially dead these days. People like this. God forbid if you’re treated well. And no you’re not sorry, you’re so much of a stuck up b**** that the thought of of a guy doing anything other than having physical relations with you or listening to your lousy problems is completely repulsive to you. On a semi side and semi related note, people like this are the types that would claim the guy that does these things is clingy, creepy, overbearing, etc. But hey, if you want to be treated like a piece of meat, then be my guest. The joys of modern feminism, right?
“But hey, if you want to be treated like a piece of meat, then be my guest. The joys of modern feminism, right?”
Bang ON!!!
Except by “treating her like a lady” you are treating her like a predetermined ideal woman. You are looking for the best cut of meat out there, not looking for a person who deserves love and attention. You shouldn’t do these things because she has a vagina, but actually learn what she loves and doesn’t love and do THOSE things for her. You’ve called her a bitch, and in doing so invalidated her right to an opinion because it is not that of “a lady.” You are exactly a belittling sexist male, so I hope you actually meant it when you typed that in.
@Belittling Sexist Male,
A-fricken-men!!! I cannot agree with you more! I cannot stand how modern feminism now suddenly means that all women want to be treated like an object to be desired rather than a woman to be respected. Of course respect goes both ways, but men and women are DIFFERENT and always will be! No sex is less than or weaker than the other, we are just different. I am very blessed with a man who does respect me and does most of the acts described in this article. I am grateful that he treats me like a person who is worthy of respect and I tell ya, I adore him, praise him and show him just as much respect. It has nothing to do with being a “princess”. I can hold my own ground just fine, but it is nice to feel loved and cared for too.
Wow, @Paul. Spot-on, man!!!
Fine, then. When you’re nine months pregnant, your back hurts like hell, and you literally have to WADDLE everywhere, I hope you appreciate it when all men, including your baby daddy, refuse to open doors and pull out chairs for you, even if you were to beg them to. Your pissy attitude implies that you don’t do a goddamn thing for people you love to show them you care and want to make things easier for them. Scratch that, it sounds like you’re incapable of love. I pray to God that if you ever DO do something nice for someone, they’ll get pissed off at you and accuse you of belittling them, rather than thanking you.
Why do you think she’s stupid enough to get pregnant??? This isn’t 1950. Smart women often find better things to do these days than waddle around like fat ducks all day. Get with the times, and get an education.
Brilliant…I was geavily pregnant on a bus in London years ago and just looked at the young man IS was standing/swaying against who was sitting….. anither lady moved so IS coukd sit down !!!!
Excuse me Truth,a misnomer if ever heard one,you don’t know everyones circumstances………..I was an aneasthetic/itu nurse travelling at probably 34 weeks pregnant to work aged nearly 30 …hmmm education and family planning was possible foe intelligentvwomen 32 years ago !!!!!!
Well said, two stars for you….
@Truth
Why would you say such a thing. Why would she be STUPID enough to get pregnant? Do not make it seem as if getting pregnant is the worst thing in the world. If someone didn’t get pregnant, YOU wouldn’t be here.
That being said, I agree with you on the idea of equality. Men AND women should be kind to each other. However, it isn’t respectful to bash other’s opinions and tell them that they’re out of touch with the times. Some people grew up differently than others. I understand that you were probably raised to believe wholeheartedly in equality. That’s fine. Let us not attack people for their views when they are different, especially if it is to prove a point. Simply sharing respectfully is fine.
DUH — a pregnant woman should always be offered the seat on the bus, etc. That’s just common courtesy, over and above chivalry.
There’s a big difference between what’s expected of a “baby daddy” and what’s expected of every man everywhere who doesn’t even a know a woman’s name (or there should be a difference).
And I’m guessing you’re a man, because a woman would note that the first trimester is one of the worst and most difficult, and since you’re not showing, no one’s cutting you an ounce of slack.
I don’t think anything she said deserves the punishments you have lined up for her. She doesn’t have to want what’s being offered, she can even find it it belittling. This sounds like revenge.
I’m glad this is the first comment I saw. 🙂 Chivalry is fine, if it applies to EVERYONE. Women opening doors for men, men opening doors for women, women getting splashed for men, men getting splashed for women. I don’t know why so many people still have such a backwards mindset that women and only women should be treated like they’re made of glass.
THANK YOU!! Finally, an intelligent remark. YES. Politeness and consideration are fine things, and should apply to everyone. What body parts a person happens to have has nothing to do with it.
Open a door for a man, a woman, a child. Do random acts of kindness for your family members. Your buddy. Your neighbors. Co-workers. Pets. Whoever you think might appreciate some kindness.
When a man opens a door for me, I simply say “Thank you”, but he does not have to do that. Sometimes I reach the door first, in which case I open it for him.
If a man I’m with seems tired, I would be happy to let him have my seat on the train. I do not expect others to think I need to sit down more than they do. Maybe they are more tired than I am!
This is what TRUE equality is about. It’s nice to do little things for others, but no man should feel he HAS to ALL the time, merely because he’s with a girlfriend. What about other people he may be with? I mean, if they’re saying men have to treat only women this way, so…are they saying if you’re with your dad you should not open the door for him? Instead, just walk in ahead of him and let the door slam in his face? Because it’s not your gf? LOL!! Gimme a break.
I held the gate open for my neighbors the other day. Three men. They appreciated it. It’s that simple.
Do nice things when you can, for whoever. Hope others do the same. HOPE for it, let others know what you like & don’t like, but don’t demand things be done a certain way all the time like a spoiled little princess. Easy!
It has nothing to do with being treated like glass…
It is not that you can not do it. It’s that a man is to be a gentleman, and treat you like a princess, like royalty. That’s who you were created to be, and a man should treat you as such. 🙂
A princess or queen would never think of these things as insulting or belittling or make them feel weak. When you know your identity at royalty, you can embrace it.
Because if you’re a man with zero social skills or respect for women and most women pick up on the fact that you’re a creepy little effer and don’t want to engage with you, the best and easiest way to obligate them to talk to you and maybe even feel pressured enough to spend time with you is to insist that you be allowed to do these nominal tasks for them and that they, in turn, be required to acknowledge you doing them, and then you can talk about how they’re a lady and how you’re a rare and diminishing breed of “gentleman”.
Alternatively, if you’re a woman who is intimidated by the idea of getting a job or considers herself “above” the material concerns of how to earn a living wage to support herself, and who has a deep emotional void from being ignored by her father that she seeks to fill by seeking any and all male attention and approval anywhere she can get it, men like the above are easy sources of easy compliments and they just want from her something that she knows she can give, so long as they don’t ask her to be a mature adult who pulls her own weight. And she is more than willing to cram undeveloped self into a confining stereotype if it gives her the feeling of being loved and approved of by a man, any man really so long as he is a daddy substitute.
The problem is and always was with putting women on a pedestal. The biggest thing suffragists had to fight when they achieved YOUR right to vote, women, was the idea that women needed to be taken care of.
The problem wasn’t that women were inferior to men, it was that they were seen as morally superior but delicate and in need of men as a buffer between them and the world’s harsher realities. It also meant control. Sojourner Truth improvised a whole speech about how stupid and hypocritical it was. (“Ain’t I a Woman?”)
I don’t miss it any more than Revenwyn, and being who you are and not who the 1890s demand you be is hardly being full of yourself.
If you think people need to get over themselves, then you’re not a strong enough advocate for yourself. Why, exactly, are YOU over YOURSELF? I always want to be on my own side, but if you don’t want that for yourself, fine, so be it. Hate us for knowing what we want and being able to get it ourselves. We’re not going to let it stop us.
Pedestal/gutter syndrome, isn’t it? Women are either trash, nor royalty. Same as all other groups of humans. People can’t seem to understand that women do not need special treatment. Neither do racial minorities or whoever. We are not less than, but also not better than, any other group. Judge all as individuals.
No gutters. No pedestals. Just equals.
I myself have never thought a man less gentlemanly merely because I *GASP! THE HORROR!* actually opened the car door for myself. I do not want to sit there and wait while he gets his things together, then runs around to my side, and lets me out. Geez.
Oh, and contrary to what some others here believe, just because I do not expect men to treat me like I’m somehow “better” than they are does not mean I would yell at some poor guy for being nice and opening a door. I simply reply, “Thank you.” I once told a man I knew well, “Thank you, but I don’t mind if you walk in before me. Go right ahead!” I acknowledged his kindness, while letting him know I’m not a spoiled princess-type. Simple.
Also known as the “virgin/wh0re” syndrome. Which you see some of the men presenting here with the idea that a woman is either a “lady” who merits basic civility and respect, or a “sl*t” who they can treat badly with impunity if they so desire.
I found a lot of men like this in the church, sadly enough.
You’re part of the problem
With all the indents upon indents, I can’t figure out who you’re responding to here.
You sound like a child. “I can do it myself” is something you should have outgrown around the age of six.
But it’s irrelevant. I doubt you go on many dates, none of which dates with men.
Aww what’s wrong, Eura? You jealous??? Like all homophobes? Go back to your Klan rally, the Grand Dragon is waiting for his rim job. It’ll be the only sex you ever get!
Is that name serving you well?
Its not belittling you…its called being respectful and treating you like a lady. Its something all women need to teach their boys at a young age.
Except right there, do you see what you did? “A lady.” So all women need to be treated like a predetermined model of femininity? So then they don’t have their own motivations, their own wants, they just want to be treated like every other woman? Do all men get treated the same way? No! All of humanity has the right to choose how they want to be treated, and they can wait until they find the person who will treat them that way. You’re making assumptions that hurt the whole of humanity. Your outdated ideas of respect are actually disrespectful to women, and they retard the development of men to becoming whole human beings who respect everyone equally. I hold the door for everyone, I’ll hold the door for a man who is younger than me. I’ll compliment a stranger on his hair. You should never “treat a woman like a lady.” Treat her like the person she is. Give her the individual attention to actually learn what she does and doesn’t like and get to really know her if you want to love her.
Paul sounds like a real man. It’s refreshing on this site.
Awwww. You hater!
Spoken like someone who guys wouldn’t want to hold a door for – too much attitude.
Only guys are allowed to have attitude.
She’ll live.
Thanks for inspiriing another tiny pen*s joke.
@ Revenwyn, I agree! It’s a ridiculous and outdated custom. ***Especially*** the way this article phrases it. I can’t imagine thinking some man is a jerk merely because he treats me like a grown adult. Women who expect men to stand around and act as butlers and servants all day will find no one likes an arrogant person who expects to be waited on hand and foot. If a person is able-bodied, they should USE that body. Be thankful they are not disabled and do not have to rely on others to do little things for them. Many people believe it or not cannot open doors for themselves. I am thankful I have a healthy body. I do think it would be nice if I was carrying a lot of stuff (heavy boxes, or bags of groceries) if someone held the door open for me while I walked in, but I can’t imagine refusing to date a man merely because it didn’t occur to him to help me. Now If he slammed the door in my face….now that would be a different story. Funny how so many people can’t tell the difference. Chivalry is dead for a reason. It’s terribly insulting to suggest I need special treatment because I have a vagina. Good god almighty how stupid is that? Look, all people need to do is just be nice to others and simply ASK if they’d like some help, and do this no matter if it’s a man or woman.
I love you! Thanks for not leaving me as the only one talking sense out here!
There are 3 voices of sanity on this page.. @Paul, @Brittny & @Revenwyn. Good grief, what century do the rest of you live in? I want to be treated the way I want to be treated. Not by some standard set back in some past life. I enjoy opening doors for those in need, and I enjoy having a door held for me ….if I just happened to be behind you. But not because I’m on a date and a man is expected to do it.
I can pull out my own chair, too, thank you. And I always give up ‘my’ seat on a bus for an elderly person whether they be a man or a woman. But why should a man give up his seat for me ? I’m not disabled. Standing will not kill me. He is just as entitled to that seat as I am. He just happened to get on the bus first. Yeesh. And if I had to sit in a car and wait for a man to come around and open my door every time , I’d scream. If there’s a handle on the door I think I can ‘handle’ it.
And no, I’m not a princess and I most certainly don’t ever want to be one. I am a woman and I would want to be with a man, not a prince.
I’ve read through a lot of these replies. There really isn’t any deeper meaning than it is a nice gesture and a polite thing to do. If women don’t want you to open the door then whatever. I’ve never had a woman tell me “No Thank you. I’ll do it myself.” Then again, I live in the south where most women appreciate the gesture. We also don’t know how to drive in the snow down here. I think the whole royalty thing and the whole degrading to women thing is silly. On one hand it is sad to see so few chivalrous gents out there but without feminists women may not be as advanced in society as they are today.
Most women can do those things for themselves. That’s not the point. The point is the man cares enough to go out of his way for you. You should be thankful.
independence is a great thing Mrs……..up until you need a tire changed, something heavy lifted, or to be defended from some scumbag.
I can do all three of those things for myself, dude.
So if a woman cared enough to go out of her way for you, would you be thankful?
up until you need a tire changed = my dad taught me to do this in middle school. I’ve done it a few times.
something heavy lifted = I hired someone off of redbeacon. He was great and since I finished college, I had zero issues paying him plus tip
to be defended from some scumbag = 6 years of krav maga, a concealed carry license and a stun gun.
I’m good.
Enjoy your flawed logic. I hope it’s delicious.
Not that this is wrong, but Revenwyn would not want a man to do these things, but maybe another woman.
Seriously ???? Its hard not to see that you never had someone do a ranom act of kindness for you ! I feel truely sorry for you !!!! This has nothing to do with insulting you nor belittling anyone ! And being that you have never been treated in the manner in which you should be … with repest and kindness I take it you have NEVER shown repest or been kind to anyone else ! Which is probably why you are so BITTER !!!!!!
You see my dear you get what you give !!!!! SO next time you are walking in to your local Wal-Mart for your next jumbo bag of chip and Diet Coke , try hoildng the door for the person behind you and see that smile on their face and see if that might put a like warm spot in your heart that you did a selfless act of kindness for a stranger ! OR you can keep walking thru that door…… no worries I will be right behind you holding the door for the next person !!!!! I hope you have a blessed day !
Oh and as for “TRUTH ” : Come on Girls your replying to a GUY !!!! He doesnt want to hold the door for you , He does want to take the time to pull out a chair for you ! He wants it all to be about him !!!!!!! Selfish little boy ! Your mother should have taught you better !!! No wait your father should have shown you how to act !!!! Word of advise to you…… its never to late to change your evil ways !!!!!
Walmart has automatic doors.
This is why it is dying out. Comments like Revenwyn make Men say “you are on your own” I myself appreciate being pampered even though I know I can do these things for myself and so does my Husband of 38 years. He too can get his own coffee in the morning but I do it to show my appreciation for all he does for me. I call it respect.
EXACTLY, Anne! I enjoying showing my appreciation and love by doing little things for him. This is what maintains the relationship.
I think the bigger point here is why can’t well all just be chivalrous to each other, regardless of gender? Don’t do nice things because of someone’s gender…do them because they’re another human being.
I’m a feminist and a career woman and I do all sorts of little things like coffee, back rubs, etc. for my husband and he does the same for me. It’s love and it’s what builds a relationship. It seems ridiculous to insist that strange men who don’t know me treat me with the level of care and investment that my husband does. I’m certainly not going to ever make their coffee or care that they had a rough day.
It is not that you can not do it. It’s that a man is to be a gentleman, and treat you like a princess, like royalty. That’s who you were created to be, and a man should treat you as such. 🙂
A princess or queen would never think of these things as insulting or belittling.
I wasn’t created to be a princess or a queen. I was created to be a mover and shaker. To start my own company and be a bullwark for family members during a tragic, difficult time. To bridge the gaps and obstacles in creating a family that would crush another woman. And another woman, say my sister, was made to nurture, with a gift for loving the unloveable and giving to those unable to give back . I looked for a man who would respect and love me for the force that I am, and my sister looked for a man who would love and treasure and respect her for the big-hearted giver that she is. Every woman is different and you have to get to know her before you know who she is and what she can do. And if you love her, she will be worth that time and investment. This princess/queen talk is shorthand for “I’m using shortcuts to get you to like me enough to do what I want you to do.” It’s lazy and a little sleezy and women wihtout daddy issues won’t fall for it.
It is not that you can not do it. It’s that a man is to be a gentleman, and treat you like a princess, like royalty. That’s who you were created to be, and a man should treat you as such. 🙂
A princess or queen would never think of these things as insulting or belittling.
Uhmmm no. No no no no no. Princesses and queens often think of these things as belittling and insulting, mind you. But no. You are assuming that a woman has a place because she is a woman, and even though you’re not using that place to hold her down, you’re still holding her down. You’ve still boxed her into this idea of what a woman should be and you’ll never truly get to know and love anyone this way.
Where do you get this nonsense? Do you treat all women like royalty–waitresses, cleaning ladies, prostitutes? Do you consider prostitutes royalty?
I am sorry for you. No one should be too insulted to appreciate being cherished and loved.
Being treated the same as every other woman is not being cherished and loved, that is being shoved in a box. That is assuming that she must be this exact picture of a woman and not appreciating her for who she is, for her motivations, her loves, and her ideals. It’s treating her like a steak that must be cooked the same way as all other steaks. This is not love, this is mastery.
How Christ loves us is the model of how we are to love one another. Men in relationships are to emulate Christ’s model. Not to put down, put on a pedestal or any other conceived human idea. It boils down to serving others. People that are bothered by being served may have a pride issue. JMHO.
Jesus’ disciples rejected his foot washing. I didn’t see him resorting to the bitter angry responses that a lot of guys are using here. He didn’t attack his disciples for it either.
That attitude my dear is why people steer clear of you, why you are lonely, why you have the bitch attitude and why people don’t care to be around you much.
I bet you are the office bitch.
I would put $$ on that you go through boy friends and or have been married many times.
Just by your comment tells me to steer clear of you.
I would hate to be a car salesman to you as you would have the attitude of ” He’s trying to screw me over” even though the guy is giving you the best deal possible.
You go tough girl,
No flowers for you this valentines day, You’d probably just trash them so why waste the $$ on you.
With your attitude why would anybody ever do or try to do anything nice for you. Belittling? Ha ha ha.
Nothing wrong with opening a car door for your lady, Now if you sit her down and then put her seat belt on, that’s perhaps taking it a little too far.
I hold doors for anybody coming in behind me or coming out in front of me, That is courtesy and respect for fellow beings.
I give up my seat for elderly and ladies. if you are a thug lady and covered in tattoos then you are just one of the guys. No seat.
If you fall on ice then I help you up no matter who you are. (except Revenwyn as you can do it yourself)
If your in a burning house I pull you out no matter who you are (except Revenwyn as you can do it yourself)
If we are in combat, I cover your ass (except Revenwyn as you can do it yourself)
A little strapped for cash until payday? sure I have a few bucks to lend (except Revenwyn as you can do it yourself)
The more I think about your comment “Revenwyn” the more I get an understanding of the pitiful POS of a woman you are.
Enjoy your life Babe!!!!
When you judge somebody, you don’t define them, you define yourself. She said one sentence stating how she wants to be treated. You said a mouthful about what kind of person you are.
I think they call this the Straw Man Fallacy.
Yes, go for a man that treats you like garbage and thinks first of himself rather than you. That’s not belittling. SMH…
You do realize that a man can hold your door and treat you like garbage. And that a man can never hold your door and still make you feel incredibly loved and valued by getting to know you and what makes you tick. Right?
There’s a whole spectrum of “what makes a man a civil, well-mannered person” and “what makes a man a great husband” outside of “knows ancient codes of gender-specific behaviors utilized by the royal classes in medieval times”
Revenwyn, I am so very sorry that you have received the closed-minded response that you have to this post. I just wanted to stop in and remind you that not all guys are sexist pricks. I don’t believe they understand that by calling you a bitch they are invalidating your opinion and attempting to make their opinion mean more than yours. I’m truly sickened by the majority of the people who have replied to this. These unfortunate men expect that every woman should be the same, that she should be presentable at a moment’s notice and be an object for them to choose, and that’s not right. You’re a person, you’re your own goddamned person with thoughts and feelings and motivations and that’s fuckin awesome.
Don’t let these people tear up your faith in humanity, you just commented in a rather large concentration of animals. Real humans are out there who can recognize the autonomy of another human being and respect them for real. Traditions and chivalry are not respect, they are quite the opposite of respect.
So, to the rest of you, understand this: by assuming that predetermined actions are the definition of respecting a woman, you have assumed that a woman is a predetermined factor. That she thinks and feels a certain way and if she doesn’t she is either crazy, a bitch, or damaged. You’re the problem here, not Revenwyn. You make me sick, please go get to know your friends and family for who they really are and learn that caring means knowing and loving that person for who they are, which you are all so clearly very bad at.
If people do not expect basic shows of respect, then people are not taught basic shows of respect. For example: opening the door for someone. I open the door for everyone. Men, women, doesn’t matter. I was taught to show respect for everyone, whether I knew them intimately enough to know them “for who they are” or not. People like you are the reason common courtesy and respect are so sorely lacking in society now.
Get off your high horse, stop generalizing that everyone who shows respect is expecting “that every woman should be the same, that she should be presentable at a moment’s notice and be an object for them to choose”, because that’s a load of crap. And yes, I am invalidating your opinion, because in MY opinion it’s a load of crap too.
@btme This is not a basic show of respect, though. Looking someone in the eye when you’re talking to them is a basic show of respect. Opening the door for someone who just happens to be behind you is a show of respect (whoever gets there first gets the door). “People like me” nothing. You have no idea the amount of respect I show in my daily life to friends and strangers, alike. If we were in the same room right now, I’d hug you so hard. I’d look you in the eye while I was talking to you, and I’d shake your hand upon meeting you. I’d say your name early and often in the conversation. I would NOT, however, treat you as if you were more or less than me.
If you treated me as if I meant more than you, I would be deeply insulted, and my opinion of you would plummet. I would see you as a person who does not have self-worth, and therefore cannot be reached on a level of self-respect and intelligent discourse.
What I’m saying is that you don’t expect men to do these things for women, because that is putting them in a place. It doesn’t matter where that place is, our genitalia do not dictate what we do with our lives. Our genitalia dictate how we pee and that’s pretty much it. So YOU and YOUR high horse can go fuck each other. I’m going to treat everyone the way that I would want to be treated were I acting the way they are acting.
Hear, hear!!!! Paul, please tell me you have a blog somewhere to counter this b.s….!
Well, I have to agree, reading this article did make me cringe a bit. Courteousness is wonderful, but chivalry really should be tailored to the individual and the situation, rather than a flat application of so called chivalrous acts, that may or may not feel very honoring for some women. (Though I’m sure we can recognize the intent was benevolent). For instance, I absolutely can’t stand going through a door first. Being a bit introverted and shy, it makes me uncomfortable having to go into an unknown place or situation and be the first to have to assess whoever or whatever is on the other side of that door: strangers, active shooters, fire breathing dragons, entering into awkward conversations etc! I know it sounds silly to some people, but to me, making me go first and then following me in doesn’t feel chivalrous, but I find it to be so the other way around!! In fact, a guy does that and he’s hero for the day in my book. I guess my point is this: we women are a complex and unique people. We’re definitely not all alike! Discover the heart of a woman and who SHE is, and then a “chivalry” which will be really meaningful to her can follow. She will respect you so much for that. And no, it may not be anything like what was listed here in this article 🙂
Dr. Colubra, you are just making way too much sense here! 🙂 I agree.
How old are you, 12? Because its at that age that most of us go through that phase. There is nothing wrong with a man trying to do something nice for you. Its not like he’s trying to insult you, its simply in his nature to be a gentleman. If you can’t respect that I’m sorry.
And this attitude is most likely the reason you’re alone.
Where does she say she’s alone? Are you inferring that from her post? And if so, why?
Ah, but is she alone? I guess that’s not important to you. You seem to enjoy your fiction.
Ugg. I can do these things for myself too but it’s nice to know that my husband cares enough that he wants to do these little things for me. My husband calls me on both his breaks and at lunchtime. He’s not possessive. He just wants to say hi. If I’m going to be busy he won’t bother me. He also helps out with the dishes. I’m not his property, just the love of his life! Change your attitude or you will never find true love.
My thought to Revenwyn exactly get over ur self! obviously u can for them for ur self, we all can but that’s not the point! If a man takes the time, thought, and some times inconvenience of doing theses things for us it speaks volumes about his personality and how u will be treated in any type of relationship u may have with him.
We can all do these things for ourselves but what is so wrong with accepting an act of love and respect from a man? My father has always treated all the women in our family with the same chivalry and encouraged us to appreciate good manners by reciprocating with a “thank you”. Thank you so much for the article, Mr. Sama.
Then maybe you should do everything for yourself Miss I’m all that!
And this is why men have lost touch with these acts of decency. So many women have lost their ability to act grateful to shows of respect.
He’s just doing it for gratitude?
Looky here! The EXACT REASON why so many men weren’t raised to do any of these any more. SMDH!
You are a symptom of the problem of this world. You’ve been conditioned that anyone doing anything for you is “insulting and belittling” when it’s a simple kindness. It’s this attitude that causes males to remain children instead of growing up in to men. Respect and kindness are not condescension. They are part of what makes an adult. The proper response to kindness is not “Ugg…NO”. It’s “thank you”.
Wait. Did you just blame strange women for the fact that some men aren’t mature? As in, “The reason I’m a spoiled girl who refuses to grow up and be responsible for myself is that some men frown at me when I open a door for them?” Sounds ridiculous with the genders reversed, huh? Also sounds ridiculous when you reverse them back.
Men are adults. If they want to be seen as adults, they will have to take responsibility for their own behaviors. Many of the men here are. Many aren’t. Neither are my fault.
OMG—now it’s women’s fault that men don’t grow up.
And that is why people who consider doing such things balk in fear of being reprimanded. No good deed goes unpunished
Revenwyn….did you attend Mechanicsburg High School circa 1991? If so I believe we’ve met. I held the door for you one day as I walked through the school halls. You stopped in a huff, put your hands on your hips, and indignantly snorted: “I can open it myself!” I then decided it would be appropriate to hold the door shut while you tried in vain to open it. Please accept my apologies these many years later. I was still a bit immature, shouldn’t have reacted so rashly.
Hopefully your flirting skills have improved over the past 20+ years….
If she rejects your gesture, she must be punished. Can you imagine what Kevin would do if she rejected HIM.
Revenwyn, God made us all different. Most women like being treated this way. I’m just wandering if you can help me understand.
You are a b I t c h and deserve a ghetto gorilla.
And you are a racist pig and you deserve all the judgement of God. One woman says something you don’t like and you use a gender insult and racially charged insult..no.woman would want anything from you because it’s clear you’re a hateful, woman.hating racist freak.
Look at the bright side, Lys – now she knows to avoid Jeffrey and any men he considers “great bros.”
Sexist AND racist. How clever
You must be very young and foolish common courtesy goes a long way. Men and women are different and that’s okay. And it’s okay for men to do these things. And it’s okay for women to be kind to men and it doesn’t mean either is better or lesser.
These respectful actions have nothing to do with our ability to do it ourselves. It is all about respect, loving, caring and honoring women. Perhaps some women have never been treated in such a respectful way and don’t grasp the difference.
You, perhaps, but on the very rare occasion that a man lets me through the door before he enters my heart skips a beat. Not in a “wow, he’s really hot!” way, but in a “oh wow, that’s incredibly nice” kind of way and I just feel good inside for a few minutes. That being said, I think these acts can be interchangeable. Like, I could walk on the street side so my boyfriend doesn’t get splashed, or drop him off if we’re in my car. I t feels nice for both genders, I’m sure.
I absolutely can do these things for myself, and that makes it even better when he does them. I don’t feel insulted or belittled, I feel loved and protected.
I love this! Especially the last one regarding parking.
Where’s the one about parking!?!…. my friend has a beautiful new 4#4…. her husband went on and on about not marking it etc etc when parking despite sensors,rear tv etc ….he brought it back having driven it for the first time with scratches and a dent all riund the bu mpers!!!!
I’m from Hong Kong, I have learned to open doors for ladies when I went to college in the US. But when I came back to Hong Kong, and I opened doors for ladies, they would give me a “look”, as if telling me why don’t you go in/out first? Are you trying to stalk me or what by following behind me? And they would hesitate and just stand there when I do this. Isn’t it strange?
@ Ricky, Yeah, it’s some sort of weird cultural thing that the US did back in the 1800’s. Don’t worry about it, there is nothing “ungentlemanly” if you don’t open the doors for women! 🙂
Couldn’t agree more Sedalia, get over yourself Revenwyn.
I would love to act this way on a regular basis, but many women don’t want to be treated these ways and may even find such gentlemanly gestures to be rude or sexist.The cause of gentlemen’s “disappearance” isn’t so much that they are dying off spontaneously but that they are being killed off mercilessly by some women. Regardless, I would prefer to take scathing looks from a women for being a gentleman before I would want to take one for being thoughtless and barbaric in my mannerisms. Ultimately If we all air on the side of kindness and respect with each other we will all be more content.
Do it anyway Brennan. You will quickly find out which females deserve a second date with you!
You are sweet DeAnna! As time progresses maybe I will find the gal for me through trying to be a true gentleman in all situations. Thanks a bunch!
Gal???
I agree with DeAnna. Don’t let the attitudes of a few dictate how you will treat them all. If they see that you are always courteous to women, from little girls to grandmothers, they will see you for the gentleman you are. If you only open doors and such for young, attractive women, then naturally you won’t be trusted, because men are always going out of their way for a pretty face and nice body in the faint hope of “getting some.” You need to prove that you have respect for ALL women, not just the ones you’d like to “do.”
So true. Be consistent and fair in acts of “chivalry,” or as what I like to call common courtesy.
Assuming that all women want to be treated a certain way, and assuming that all men act the same way in the hopes of “getting some” are equally unfair. I can straight-up invalidate the second half of what you said by pointing out that I am a gay male, and I still hold the door open for women behind me. I do it for men, too. I give up my seat to anyone on the train who looks like they genuinely need it more than I do. I’m not doing it for sex, or some other expectation, I’m doing it because it’s a minor inconvenience for me but has the potential to make someone’s day slightly better.
I mean, you even explain all of this to Brennan as though he’s only behaving this way in order to gain women’s trust. You’re assuming he’s got some kind of agenda, and he’s not being kind to people for kindness’ sake. Why do you assume he’s only doing things he considers to be kind in order to maintain some ideal image?
I appreciate your wisdom Nunyabizz! You’re right, I shouldn’t let myself become discouraged because of a few individual people acting negative. The person I saw as the gentleman he was growing up was my Grandpa Ullom. As a small child I would parrot the things he would say and do around people when we would go to town together because I saw how much people appreciated him. So now as a twentysomething man I still try to act with common courtesy and most of the time it is well received. You are so right, it is never fair for a guy to open a door for a girl he has interest in and then fail to do the same for another woman. The biggest thing I’ve noticed about my Grandpa is that he treats everyone with the same decency and kindness. I want to be that way too.
girl??? Brennan. you are digging yourself in deeper with every comment
@ Brennan, don’t worry about this outdated custom of “chivalry”. instead replace it with the more modern “common courtesy”. Just do polite things for anyone you think would like it. regardless of gender. You have to understand there are so many men who pretend to do nice things when they really have an ulterior motive or whatever. It is not just women who are suspicious of kindness, believe me!!!!!!! I ran after a man to tell him he dropped some money and I got the oddest look from him, as I usually do whenever I do something nice for a stranger. People do not trust kindness these days because so many people are being taken advantage of. They’ve done studies on this, I think I saw an episode of Nightline or dateline or some other news show on tv about this. Its got nothing to do with gender. I got yelled at by an elderly man once because I let him get on the bus ahead of me. I was being nice, but he thought I was being rude or condescending. People have their reasons.
Bottom line, being kind to strangers is always a gamble.
however If it is someone you know, then you could always ask them if they mind if you open the door for them or whatever! I would do that when it’s a friend or girlfriend.
This was a very thoughtful comment! I thank you for your good advice. People are at times suspicious because of having had there trust betrayed in the past. We just need to be as genuine and kind as we can in all situations.
A true LADY will always appreciate such gestures. I hope you find one to treat this way for life.
Thank you Linda, I hope so too! 🙂
What is a true lady?
So … you’re saying that a woman doesn’t have the right to decide how she wants to be treated? That all women must accept the treatment that you have chosen for them regardless of their individual preferences?
Tomorrow, I’m going to shoot all men I see with my paintball gun. I understand that some men will give me scathing looks because they are uptight and damaged and unable to enjoy a little good fun. Regardless, I would prefer to take scathing looks from some men for being fun before I would want to take one for being dull and boring in my mannerisms. Ultimately, if we all err on the side of doing what I personally have decided we should all do with each other, we will all be more content.
Genius
I embrace the fact that few choose to do this. It gives me the opportunity to set myself apart.
Here’s a thought, don’t be a dick to anyone, let alone the women you’re miserably failing to date.
@Duh – Men behaving like a dick will not end until women stop rewarding such behavior with their sexual and other favors. If a particular behavior is rewarded, more such behavior will occur.
You’re making far too much sense, Duh. Far too much.
Also walking in front of your girl down the stairs and behind her up the stairs. Learned this from my grandpa and it wasn’t till a year in our marriage my wife found out I did this for a reason… she needed it when we were in college!
Also, not calling a grown woman a girl. It’s demeaning. If men don’t like being called boys, rest assured that women of legal adult age do NOT like being referred to as female children, because yes, that IS what the word “girl” means. It is NOT the equivalent of “guy,” as many seem to think. The equivalent of “guy” is “gal.”
Why are you so agitated?
When I have a girl around I take the responsibility of her well being. If opening a few doors, pulling up a few chairs or walking on the side of traffic etc can assure her safety and comfortability why wouldn’t I do that. It’s what was taught to me and I see the logic in it. If a girl does not want me to do this and asks me with respect without getting all into gender equality argument, I would gladly accept and I am pretty sure most men wouldn’t mind doing the same either.
All you need is clear communication and be respectful. How difficult is that?
Okay, if you are really interested in her well-being you will stop referring to her as a girl, right now. And you will stop insisting that she show you respect even though you keep calling her a girl. And you will stop trying to dictate how she responds to you. And you will stop acting like gender equality is an insult to you. And you will grow up.
Gal is actually just a bastardization of girl, not a different word.
I would hope you’re interested in avoiding assault charges so that if a WOMAN tells you that she doesn’t want something, you’ll cut it out whether she asks super-nicely pretty-please-with-a-cherry-on-top or not.
That was clear communication.
Okay, most of these are all well and good, but I’m not going to see the guy that walks street-side as better than another guy. I don’t see doing any of these things as getting a leg up on the competition. And please, don’t open up my car door for me. One, fully capable of doing that myself. Two, it’s awkward for me to see you do that half jog thing to get to my side. Three, in the time it takes for you to walk around and let me out, we could have already been across the parking lot or wherever.
Why are you in a hurry? Life is to be savored.
I have to agree with Charlie…Why rush things. I could remember when I was a child my Grandfather opening the door for my Grandmother. I asked my Grandmother why Granddad did that and she said cause he loves me…meaning that he respected her enough to go out of his way to treat her the best that he could…something as simple as opening a door
Totally agree.
@michelin
I think you mean it’s cool if he doesn’t open the car doors for me it’s not really a big deal, and that you would rather not make someone you love walk all around the car just to open the door for you. I completely get it. It’s your choice!
Sometimes it’s not about being capable or saving time, it’s about giving and receiving kindness and respect.
I loved this post. The comments on this have been interesting to say the least. They go from one extreme to another, which is really no surprise at all.
Common courtesy is for me is just how I choose to live my life. I treat people with respect, even if they don’t give it back in return. If someone gets upset because I did something nice, I don’t let it bother me or stop me from still doing it; that is just me and how I choose to be.
We all have our own set of standards as to what is important in a relationship. If you want to buy into the system and just settle for less that is completely up to you. If you feel you deserve better for yourself then don’t settle for anything else, it really is that simply.
I am far from a shrieking violet and I am independent, yet I feel I deserve to be treated like a lady by man and I am a lady back in return. I for one am lucky enough to have such a special man in my life. I appreciate these qualities in him and I give him the same respect back, neither of us take each other for granted, In short we have both had our share of non healthy relationships, we both aren’t willing to settle for just anyone and we are firm on that.
Man or Woman, you just have to believe your worth it 🙂
Very nice !!
My ten year old son does ALL of these. Geez. Who would ever complain about this? I have taught him manners. Too bad most men did not learn these manners as young children. Disgraceful.
youre all a bunch of dumb brads.
Sounds like someone’s jealous that he’s not getting any. Hmmm, I wonder why that is?
It’s funny how men claiming to do things like this out of respect are also quick to judge and insult anyone who prefers to do them for herself or doesn’t enjoy the feeling being waited on gives her. That doesn’t make you a respectful gentleman, it just makes you well-trained. I think respect has evolved, not that being a ‘gentleman’ is a forgotten art.
Exactly.
This is the best comment I have read on here all day
Spot on! Respect and love doesn’t mean opening a frigging car door because society tells you it means something.
Exactly.
um…as a woman, i also do these things for someone~man, woman, date, stranger…this is just proof of the loss of common courtesy in general in my opinion. the point should be to regain respect for others in general instead of being so gender-focused.
just sayin’…
Couldn’t agree more!
Yes!!! Common courtesy to ALL, regardless of gender! I was told by a lesbian friend that offering one’s seat to a woman once was a common practise and not merely because of gender – a woman in early stages of pregnancy may not look pregnant but probably needs to sit down. It’s a good point. What bothers me most is lack of courtesy toward elderly and disabled people. When I tore a muscle in my leg I could barely stand and had a cane for a week. As a young guy only once did someone (an older man) offer me a seat on the train to work and back. People are generally oblivious to those around them. What’s been a loss is not chivalry toward women, but chivalry toward other humans. Women are just as guilty of this as men.
Amen. I was raised to do these things for people because it’s nice to. Sadly, the responses I encounter to these niceties these days are generally as follows: by men–ignored; by women–hostile looks or chastisement. It doesn’t matter WHO is offering the help sometimes, male or female. People nowadays think that everyone either wants something or is trying to insult them for no reason. It’s discouraging but since I believe in chivalry for its own sake I will keep it up and hope to be a good example for the young’uns.
I never for a moment thought doing these things made a woman weak. My dad always taught me this made a woman special. It’s a sign of courtesy and respect as well as a sign that you greatly value the person for which you are doing it. It teaches men how to treat people they love and teaches women how to be comfortable receiving kindnesses. Why are we as a society so willing to overthink things? If someone is showing you a kindness, the only appropriate response is, “thank you.” Not anger or indignation. Just gratitude.
I love to see people smile when I hold the door for them. 🙂 I love it when my wife smiles when I open the passenger door for her. And out of protection and a godly love for all women I always walk on the street part of the sidewalk with them so that if a driver drunk or not paying attention came driving at us on the sidewalk I could at least get her to safety. 🙂 I never knew this meant so much to my wife when we were dating, but the night she told me how much it meant to her it truely made me feel like a knight in shining armor, which I believe I’m pretty far from… But she doesn’t, and I’ll never stop trying to be that for her as best I can! 🙂 if you’re one of those ladies who wouldn’t like it if I held the door open for you, I understand that you can do it on your own, and I don’t do it to disrespect you… I do it first off from my own conviction, and second off because I really want to make your day special and show you that someone cares enough to try and make your day even better than what it already was. 🙂 I’m not asking you to like the fact that I do it, I just want to make you smile. But if you don’t, that’s ok, I’ll still do it for you unless you ask me to stop. You gals are amazing and you have my respect!
You are a true gentleman. Your wife is SO blessed to have you love her.
[…] 8 Acts of Chivalry to Bring Back […]
I find it quite telling that several “men” that claim to like this piece were quick to be abusive and UNchilvarous to detractors just stating their opinion.
I will give up my seat to elderly and very young children. Healthy women? Not likely. Especially since I have had health issues that lead to discomfort. I am interested in being nice to everyone regardless of sex or gender.
I agree that many a young person does not show common courtesy, however. There is a lot of rudeness, but this is not because of feminism. Wow. Some people need a clue.
There’s a time and a place for anyone to hold their bus seat, in spite of age. I once saw a young woman heckled repeatedly for not giving up her bus seat to an old woman on a 90 degree day. Everyone complained about her awful manners. 10 minutes after she gave up her bus seat, she vomited in the middle of the bus. Everyone else was miserable after she gave up her seat because the stink was horrible, and the people who got splashed were really pissed.
Jane_Eyre
just wondering why all those that heckled her didn’t give up their seats instead??
Why didn’t the complainers offer the old woman a seat? Sounds like they didn’t care what happened to her as long as they could use her to beat up the kid with.
[…] would bring back chivalry, it may actually be an art form now since it has been mostly forgotten. This blog post is a list of the top 8 to bring […]
I do all of those things, but more. I also stand when she leaves or arrives at the table in a restaurant. I also will walk out and meet the woman at her car if we arrive somewhere separately. I also will order for her if she tells me what she wants but that rarely occurs and its fine with me either way. Most women like my manners but a few don’t.
Reblogged this on psfearlessmoms and commented:
Simple, yet satisfying.
[…] 8 Acts Of Chivalry To Bring Back. […]
Wow. A lot of strong and angry feelings here. I would just like to add that yes, I think chivalrous acts are endearing and I appreciate them greatly. However, I don’t think that every relationship would benefit from those. It’s important to keep in mind that each relationship is different and there are different ways to show love and respect to your partner. Let’s try to be kind and respect the opinions of others, not belittle each other. You get from the world what you put into it. This was a lovely article. Thank you for sharing.
I don’t think it’s insulting or belittling. Yes, I can do these myself, and if I have to, no problem. But if a man goes out of his way to open a door for me or something like that then it’s appreciated and I recognize he’s trying to be a gentleman. I say thank you and move on.
I do not think that it is insulting per se, but what I think is that the word ‘chivalry’ should be replaced with ‘kindness’ and it should not be ‘men to women’ but ‘everybody to everybody’. Give up the seat regardless of being a man or a woman to someone who needs it, open the door if you are there first, drop off friends at the door if you are driving, call, complimentary compliments, and protect one another. I do not think it is insulting to do so but i do not think that acts of kindness should be exclusive to one gender.
Gwen, thank you for your kind and balanced thinking. I have tried to raise my daughter this way. Her name is also Gwen; she is also kind and balanced. I had to check your site to be sure you were not her! 🙂
[…] 8 Acts of Chivalry to Bring Back – not that I need an article to remind me I’m lucky. But, I’m lucky. […]
I can’t believe all the folks arguing over this, it’s hysterical! But come on, everyone needs to just grow up and respect others and their opinions.
In addition to women, I open doors for older folks, mothers or fathers with small children and many other human beings I encounter as well. It is simply a respectful gesture and meant to show consideration, respect and compassion for another human being. I get as much out of the gesture as hopefully they do however am not repelled by those who may not want me to extend that gesture.
Live and let live.
What is happening here? It’s funny that an article that is intended to be a positive way to show you care, respect and appreciate whoever it is you are with, turned ugly. That is exactly what is wrong with the world. Are there not more pressing matters that concern you that you could be fighting? If you take any of these things in a demeaning way, you’re reading it wrong.
It’s not any of these things alone, it’s the idea that one must treat all women the same way, that there is some sort of definition of “lady” that a woman must live up to and the same with “gentleman.” We should all strive to be ourselves, not some half-baked cookie-cutter version of the “perfect man/woman.” Along with that, we should learn to cherish the people we love and treat them the way they want to be treated, not with some preset ideals that they either have to like or they are clearly damaged somehow.
James,
I appreciate this post and encouraging men to do nice things for their women, but I have an interesting thought for you:
Ok so I have a question. Why is it that constant references of chivalry are always made for men. Chivalry isn’t just dying because men have stopped making chivalrous gestures. What about the things that women used to do that they no longer do- like making their husband a lunch for work or setting out his clothes on the bed? I am a strong independent woman, but I do these types of things for my man because I love and care for him, not because he expects it. And he does things for me in the same respect such as helping me fold laundry or caring for me when I’m sick. For some reason women nowadays are so scared of seeming subservient to men that they gawk at what I would consider not chivalry, but heartfelt gestures to show your significant other that you care. Chivalry isn’t dead, it’s just not as traditional as it used to be. And for both women and men who feel that they are too independent and strong willed to have their significant other do nice things for them- get over yourselves. You should acknowledge the efforts made by other individuals be it someone your dating or even a friend. Love and kindness are self-less acts and some people nowadays are too self-centered and stuck up to even recognize or appreciate it.
Sincerely #frustratedwithpeople
It’s not that they don’t want to be subservient, it’s that they are not some cookie cutter image. They are not required to submit to an ideal image. There is no penultimate man or penultimate woman, there is only individuality. Every person has their own flaws and their own beauty. If you’re so focused on treating each other like a lady and a gentleman, you’ll never see the actual person behind that mask you have put over them.
Although really, who would want to be subservient?
Personally I wouldn’t have it any other way. Text me for a date? Lordy that would be the last time….a resounding Hell No! Do men do that these days? I am extremely independent woman. I was raised a feminist and railed against the status quo and cannot for the life of my fathom how a man being a gentleman detracts from my capacities and freedom at all. Somethings are just nice. And woman can be as thoughtful towards the men in their lives. I believe there is nothing wrong with Chivalry. We should move to bring it back from the grave in which we shoved it.
I don’t expect a man to open my door, pull out my chair, or act in other likewise “gentleman-like’ behavior, but when they do I am pleasantly surprised and I enjoy being treated like a lady in that moment. It’s a gift, if you will. It’s about them noticing I’m there and not letting a door slam in my face or taking the extra measure to show they appreciate my company as a woman. I like being treated special. Why in the world wouldn’t I? In turn I treat them like a man who deserves respect. Why would any woman respond to man who is trying to be a gentleman as if he is a pig? It is very simple and I don’t understand how kind gestures from anyone (man or woman) can be interpreted as so repugnant to some, no matter how they try to skew it.
Ugh, why must this be so hard! If a man opens a door for you it’s not because he feels superior to you and wants to put you in your place. It also doesn’t mean that he thinks your a freakin princess. He’s just trying to be nice! No wonder men are so confused by women. We overthink everything! Why can’t it just be what it is. He opened a door. He’s not a jerk.
We should be nice to them too! Cook your man a nice dinner. Get him a beer. Leave him alone when he wants some quiet time. Wanting those things doesn’t make him a chauvinist, and doing them doesn’t make you oppressed. He’s just a man…who is probably thourougly confused about what women want.
Christine, you are far to practical and logical for this group of people.
Please move along to a more reasonable topic and take me with you.
Like button! Well said.
What if your man is the cook and you’re the handywoman around the house. What if he’s the extrovert and you want some quiet time?
People may or may not agree with most of these but I can’t emphasis enough the importance of making sure the woman makes it into her home safely. Even if you just sit in the car and watch to make sure she gets inside can make a huge difference. When my parents were dating, my father dropped my mother off one night only to notice a man following her into her building. My dad came up behind the guy who had snuck up behind my mother just outside the door of her apartment. My father scared the guy off before anything happened but I am fully certain that my mother would have been assaulted or killed that night if dad hadn’t been paying attention.
On this one I would agree with you.
The most important – respect her purity. The rest pale in comparison.
Just like you would a gallon of mllk. Or pound of cocaine.
If she’s not pure, then, OBVIOUSLY, just do whatever.
SMH.
Why are people making such a big deal about this? Yes, my husband opens the car door for me sometimes, and yes he usually walks on the street side of a side walk, but when it comes to opening doors, sometimes I open a door fr him, sometimes he for me, and some times both of us open doors for strangers. Instead of focusing on what MEN should do for WOMEN and then analyzing the reasons behind it, how a bout we just do things to be nice, does it really matter what gender the person is that’s holding open a door?
The most impressive acts of chivalry, and the ones that always melt my heart, are when PEOPLE are decent to other PEOPLE. I wish women who find it offensive being treated decently would wear badges or something so I would know to let doors slam in their faces, ignore them when they struggle with luggage or packages, and let elevator doors close as they are frantically running. Oh, but I’m female, so I guess it’s OK for me to do it. Sexist much?
I couldn’t agree more, Kathryn.
Bitter is so unbecoming in every single way. Why is it so hard to accept that many men are trying to be appreciative of women in a respectful way? Way to snatch an insult from the middle of a compliment, girls! Just because an act of kindness/respect doesn’t meet your definition of what you need, you deem it rude or wrong. I hope those same women expect the same judgments to their behavior because at the rate they are going, no one will ever please them.
Unbelievable comments! Nobody treats a woman special because she has a vagina. I treat my wife special because she is a special person. I treat my wife in a way that I would like to be treated. I treat other people, both men and women, the way I’d like to be treated. My wife, in turn, treats me well. She does things for me, I do things for her. Everything I do for her, she could certainly do for herself, and probably better. But its my way of showing her how much I care for her.
Unbelievable comments indeed! Loved what you said. My hubby does things for me and I do things for him…..why…..wait for it…..wait for it……….because we love each other and care for one another. Sometimes, we are in a hurry and I open the car door for myself. Other times he will make the effort to come around and open it. Neither of us gets offended by me opening the door or him opening the door. Its a kind gesture, not being put in a box or cookie-cutter as some other comments have said. But then again, we are all different and like I always say…perception is everything!
A lot of the comments deal with what is expected of all men toward all women, not what is expected of a husband toward a wife. Obviously, expectations for those two different circumstances will be very very different.
Great find! I want to commend you for reprinting something from 1965, when the Beach Boys reigned and “The Donna Reed Show” was still on the air. Maybe next week you can tell us how to treat single mothers with tattoos, women who bed dozens and dozens of men, women who are raised as boys to do men’s jobs (and act like it), and women trained by the educational system to view men as “the enemy.” Something modern, in other words.
Oof, you sound a little bitter. Hugs, man. Get yourself a hug. You sound like you could use it.
What educational system is training females to think of males as the enemy? How do they do it?
Reblogged this on Exquisite La Vie and commented:
AMEN! I am so fortunate to have my dad who checks off 100% of this list on a daily basis. With three girls and a wife he clearly loves so dearly, he has every opportunity every single day to be the chivalrous man he’s always been. I hope and pray and dream of meeting a guy like my father who has the same respect and gentleness towards women.
Although we insist on letting him sit in our seats, walking far distances with him and opening the door for him… he still obliges and continues to be the perfect gentleman.
Thanks, Dad, for showing us what a true gentleman is like. They sadly truly are a rare breed no a days but yet again.. you beat all odds.
I THINK it would be cool if guys did this stuff for ladies they care for… and ladies do it for men they care for! And ladies could do it for ladies they care for, and the same for men. And even those people in the middle can do it to. And you could just try extra hard if you’re in a relationship, because you extra care. Then instead of posting 750+ comments about whether this protects or destroys gender roles, we are all using our energy being awesome to one another 🙂
I’m going to go CALL my bff for a date right now.
I read just enough comments to be blown away by females who are not acting like ladies. Acts of chivalry are simply acts of kindness and respect to women. Opening a freaking door for a woman is not an insult to her!!! We live in a day where most men aren’t gentlemen and most women aren’t ladies. LADIES YOU WANT A MAN TO TREAT YOU RIGHT??? WELL LET HIM!!! I can plainly see now from these comments that thanks to women’s negative attitudes…we have jack ass men out there!! I wondered where the gents whet…we ladies freakin’ scared them away!!!
How ’bout you speak for yourself and enjoy making your man sandwiches. And enjoy letting the other door holders stare at your rear as you walk through ahead of them. Don’t forget to smile and say thank you, sugar! If you don’t, you might create jacka$$ men who don’t believe date rape is a possibility and who are uncomfortable with the idea of a female boss at work.
In my long life, most of the gentlemen I’ve known have been women. They tend to live up to that concept better than most men.
Honestly I think it’s some types (not all) of feminists who are ruining it for us. Because you have to be such imposing extremist flipheads who take offense at the slightest things, the men tend to stop doing it for the majority.
I believe in chivalry, manners and just being polite from all sides. As a woman, and one reared in the South, I was taught to expect these things in men. And the men of the South were taught to do these things. As a feminists, member of NOW, protest marcher, I still think it is all relevant. I also show my appreciation, I say thank you when a door is held, I acknowledge any man that stands for me when I enter a room or offers me a seat. In return, if I am going through a door first, I will hold for anyone coming after, man or woman and patiently for the elderly. I will reach to pick up something you have dropped in politeness. I was taught manners in my home, in my church and in school. Manners were expected at all times, not just for company. It is a way of life.
Reblogged this on Gotta Luvjones.
[…] A Real Man: “8 Acts Of Chivalry To Bring Back” […]
Sedalia, Thank you from the guys who try to be Gentlemen and run into Revenwyn.
i think just this is all rubbish ..Are you on some crack.. In no point in the article have you ever once mentioned what is the point of all this.. If your were gentleman you should go kill ur self.
This goes two ways- ladies, we need to give signs that we appreciate this! For too long women have acted like men- too gender neutral and it emasculates men.
There are times I stand there like a queen, waiting for him to take off and put my coat on, or I stand in front of a door waiting for him to open it. I gives a man permission to be a MAN- so I can be a lady! ….. and it drives him craaaaaazzy in a good way !!
Relationships are a dance, we can’t pint the finger at someone and call them wrong.
Curious – what behaviors should men avoid to keep from efeminizing (or whatever the female verison of “emasculating would be) women?
This article is on point. The point is to show you are thinking about someone other than yourself. I can do all those things for myself but isn’t it nice when some one else thinks enough of you to do it for you. I can cook for myself but appreciate when someone else does it for me!
Some women are selfish and don’t deserve this chivalry.
That doesn’t mean that you can’t be chivalrous nevertheless. Be the bigger person. If the thought goes through your head that she doesn’t deserve chivalry, then she deserves to be kicked to the curb.
She deserves this because of a THOUGHT he has?
You’re with the wrong person then. Treat your girl like a lady and she will forever be yours.
It’s really tough to keep it up though, when your wife gets pissed at you for doing any of this stuff. My dad taught me to do it right, and yes, my wife really does get impatient or otherwise pissed when I try. So I’ve given up. It’s your own fault, woman.
if your wife is always pissed because you are trying to be courteous and respectful there is something else going on. Try asking her why and talk to her. There may be something else besides the extra second it takes to open a car door for her when you are running late. Just my thoughts.
I was raised in the south. All of these points and more are drilled into young boys and men to insure they become southern gentlemen. At least that’s the way it used to be!
you and i both, brother. it really does make a difference
Did gentlemanly behavior extend to all members of society?
Also, sitting on the aisle side in an auditorium.
I do appreciate these things, and feel cared for when men around me show these signs of chilvalry, but it seems like these are just external things. True chivalry is something much more than these acts (which in days when people don’t general chuck trash out their upstairs windows may seem at least slightly out of touch). True chivalry is a mindset of caring, of manliness, and of an unselfish determination to put others’ needs first.
I really like this. Already do many of them myself. But where is the list of what women should do for men? All these standards for chivalrous men so where are the standards for the classy ladies?
I hate to be the bearer of bad news Manny, but classy ladies do not exist.
This says more about you and the people you draw into your experience than it does about the population at large. Happy people and thoughtful people draw happy, thoughtful people to them. Change your attitude and you’ll change your experience. I encounter people without class, but I can say with a certainty that the people in my life are classy.
But classy WOMEN do exist.
I really resent that remark. There are many classy ladies out there and I happen to be one of them.
Manny, he does have lists for women on his blog, also. And FYI, same as with true gentlemen, a truely classy lady will not take offense to the advice he offers. Keep doing what your doing and don’t give up, you will find that keeper and it will be worth your efforts and worth the wait!
Reblogged this on Life as Amber knows it and commented:
A-fuckin-men! This guy gets my vote for beyond fucking awesome and a gem in the world!
Classy…not.
Oboy. That sort of talk is why fellas figure they’re wasting their time with chivalry. If a lady’s mouth spews trash, where is the incentive to treat her as anything but? Not to say I don’t use colorful language here and there, but there’s a time and place and in response to an article on being classy is Not the time.
I really like this article! Very well written.
You should make an article of what classy ladies should do for men (:
It was already written back in 1950: http://motifmagazine.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/femns_goodwife19551.jpg
well said! oh, gender rolls, how i’ve missed thee.
Geesh…people will argue over anything!
These are things that I think everyone can and should do? I am a woman, I still take care to open doors – for men, women, anyone who happens to be coming through close behind me, I will hold the door and wait for them to go through. I give up my seat on the bus to anyone who seems older, to kids, or just to someone who’s tired-looking. This doesn’t have to be about men and women or relationships. It can be about casual gestures of respect or thoughtfulness in general, which are very much lacking in our current society.
Absolutely agree. This is about caring for another human being, not just about perceived gender needs.
RIGHT ON
This is painfully sexist. What if there was a list about classic/traditional ways women should act?
1. Bear children.
2. Clean the home.
3. Cook.
4. Shave your legs.
5. Please your man.
Exactly. Bet that wouldn’t get the same outpouring of positive response. What a world of double standard.
It is not a world of double standard. It is a world of harsh realities, which feminists refuse to accept. Men cannot bear children, clean, or cook, so let us pull out your damn chair without complaining.
This is sarcasm, right?
George, true that you cannot bear children, but there are lots that men and women can do for each other that does not have to stick to a gender-based script. All humans can open doors for each other, offer seats to each other – it’s about caring for other people. I don’t need my man to pull out my chair for me, but I do need him to be my mutually supportive partner. I don’t need him to clean the house or cook, but it’d be great if we could be a team with me when doing so. Yes, I will please him, and he will please me too. He may drop me off before finding parking when I’m wearing heels, and I will do the same for him when he’s had a long, tiring day.
My man is my partner, and I am his.
How about punching disrespectful cock suckers in the face
As women already do all these things, and work, what is your point? Do you do any chivalrist thing in the list (probably not?)
6. Make a sandwich for me.
@ George, most chefs are men. I’ve never dated a man who couldn’t cook and clean very very well (and many took great pride in their skills in the kitchen and home, as they should). Some of the cleanest, most OCD housekeepers I’ve known have been very “manly” men.
@Deb Yes Deb, women do all of these things and “work” (I got a hearty chuckle from that one). And no I do not perform any chivalrous acts. I am a gay man and therefore have no use for women.
George, what was it about Deb’s saying “all those things and work?” That gave you a hearty chuckle? I can’t stand being left out of a joke.
Did you actually read the blog? Or did you read the title and the bullet points and call it goo? It’s not about how a man treats a woman, but about how all people should treat all people.
*call it good… not call it goo 🙂
So with you!
I was walking with a group of people. We were just leaving the grounds of a house and had entered the street. One young man, whom I was just getting to know, actually switched positions so he could walk next to me, nearest the road. Readers, I married him! lol. 🙂 (31 years and counting! )
Well, sheesh, if that’s all it takes, I think we’ve solved the divorce issue in ‘Murica!
It IS all it takes. Mutual consideration goes a long way in any relationship: business, personal, sexual, political.
Well, I will pass that on to friends whose marriages are dealing with infidelity and chronic illness. “Walk on the street side of the sidewalk.” Bam, case closed. Invaluable advice, ma’am.
I think (hope) we all know that’s not all it takes; however, the Premise behind it is sound. Humans are flawed and screw things up far too easily. Kindness can soften a person’s demeanor and that goes for men And women. I hold the door open for both, it’s not like it takes any effort and it’s a nice gesture. Will it fix a broken marriage? Likely not, but it’s a good start if the couple wants to work it out. It’s definitely too small to work if they’re not both in for the long haul, though. Infidelity sucks and chronic illness is plain ol’ unfair. I’m sorry to hear about your friends and hope they find happiness.
After reading this I felt kind of bad because all these things I always did mainly because I was raised in a household of 10, where there were only 3 males. My grandfather taught me that is what a man is always suppose to do. Now I’m 38 with two son’s and realize that these same things I’ve haven’t been practicing as much as I used to, thanks for the gut check
It’s a gut check for me as well.,..
I do all these things, yet on more than one occasion I have been berated by a woman who I have held the door for (something about not being helpless) (I also hold the door for men)) but I just smile and generally say Have a lovely day)).
Ocassionally running into an idiot should confirm you in the feeling that you are right.
You’re just a really good guy John, it’s about respecting yourself at times like that. My advise is smile RELLY BIG – it’ll make them wonder what you’re thinking!
From a gal who Does appreciate it, thank you. I don’t understand why women get up-in-arms about it. I find it to be a good reminder that there are kind people out there. Especially after three men walk through a door and allow it to slam in my face when my arms are full. I held the door for the lady behind me and called out, “Oh boys, this is how it’s done!” I winked at them and had a good giggle at their surprised faces.
I don’t think this is sexist at all. In our modern society, with equality being a main focus, these acts can and should be done by both sexes. That’s what real equality is. Of course I can do these things by myself but you know what? So can everyone else! That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t take the extra second to say or do something just because it’s not our traditional role. As a human, I can tell you that I do all of these things unbelievably naturally and sometimes it even annoys my friends and family but when the day comes that everyone can accept a kind gesture, I’ll know that those insignificant things were all worth it.
It is also so nice to hear a “please” and “thank you”…and yes, many of these can be done by either sex. I often hold doors for men and women. I call to make plans, not just text. And I give out compliments left and right. The truth is, most people seem to have forgotten their manners and care more about themselves than others. And that is where the problem really lies.
Wow. It’s like instructions on how to be a giant pus-sy.
Looks like you’ve already achieved that status.
What would the instructions be to avoid that?
This is a great article, and this man’s thoughts and heart are in the right place. As he said, it’s about showing love and respect for the other person, not about archaic gender roles. Being thoughtful, and giving your seat up for someone who might need it is kind, not manipulative. Kudos to you James!
If I’m on the subway, I’ll certainly give my seat to an elderly, pregnant or sick person – I’m not giving my seat up to some rude girl who has two perfectly functioning legs and will just think I’m hitting on her.
Totally agree. In this age of equality, I don’t know why we should offer our seats to another who is equal. Elderly, pregnant or sick people obviously should be offered seats.
True. But can you see that I’ve had two total knee replacements and even walking up and down the stairs to the bus or subway is painful for me? I value my independence and try hard not to gimp around, but if someone offered me a seat based on my gender, not seeing the scars underneath my pants, I’d gratefully accept.
Why should your gender earn you a seat when the man with the invisible total knee replacements is not offered a seat because of his gender? This is a serious question. I can’t begin the imagine what the answer could be.
I agree. Females can sit on my lap if they need somewhere to sit.
was someone actually rude to you because she thought you were hitting on her?
Josh, yes you sure are
As others have noted, there’s really not much on this list that’s exclusive to “chivalry.” Most items on the list reflect common courtesy (which is no longer common.) We ALL can (and should) give up our seat to pregnant women and the elderly – and anyone else who seems overloaded or harried. Everyone can (and should) make sure their date (friendly or romantic) makes it in the front door at the end of the night. We can all drop off our passengers when we go park in BFE. Why would you NOT hold the door for the person behind you? How about letting the person behind you in line go ahead of you when they have 1 item and you have 10?
These are all such small acts of consideration, but they require that you actually think about the people around you.
(If your response to this is anything along the lines of “WHY should I do anything for someone who hasn’t done anything for ME?” or “I’m not helping anyone who hasn’t EARNED my respect!”, you might take a moment to consider why you think you’re way more important than anyone else thinks you are.)
Very well written! I was raised by a southern gentleman who was forward thinking enough to hire women and minorities back in the 60’s. I too believe in the items you suggest is merely common courtesy that we should all show each other. Is it really that difficult to say “excuse me” as you pass in front of someone in a grocery aisle? Is it really that taxing to say “good morning” as you pass someone in the hallway at work? A little civility goes a long way in my opinion.
Having said that, I wasn’t terribly civil in an earlier response. I have a big problem with men throwing “feminism” around and having a huge chip on their shoulder about our wanting not to be treated like second class citizens. The notion of my earning a wage that is commensurate to men in the same position should be obvious. The fact that this still doesn’t happen in 2014 is absurd.
The men at my office are very good about opening doors and letting women onto the elevators before them. I don’t necessarily think this should be mandated but it’s very nice and I always thank them. Now in a dating or marriage relationship, I think it definitely should be the norm.
Exactly. Great post.
I would add in the #9 position – a gentleman stands when a woman leaves the table at a restaurant (unless you’re in a booth, lol). I liked these and forwarded to my sons as a refresher course. I think men and women have gotten more self-centered, self-absorbed, and cruder (plz ref some of the earlier comments). I think that as much as we, women, would like our men to act more like gentlemen, we should reciprocate and act like ladies!
Yes I do this, not sure where I picked it up, as can’t remember when in my teen life I did it. MikeNZ
I agree with everything on this list. I also agree with CelticAngel about standing when your date leaves the table at a restaurant. However, I would make one change to the list – switch woman to date or partner. Courtesy and chivalry are not limited to women, every thing on this list is equally applicable regardless of the gender of the person you are with. There is no reason that a man cannot open doors for his male date, or a woman for her female date. It is about the role in the relationship not the gender of the person in question.
I strongly disagree with you. If another man tries walking me to my door, I will knock him in the face.
You are making gay men look really bad, George. Or was that the point: trash women and gays all at the same time?
[…] I saw a discussion about an article on chivalry, in which the general consensus seemed to be that chivalry was dead. They argued that […]
Chivalry is DEAD. Blame Feminism. They got what they asked for and now they don’t like it. Sounds like a woman to me. Men need to be Men.
So wanting to make equal pay for doing the same damn job means that we can’t keep some sense of civility in this stinkin’ country? Wow, I’ll bet you’re just a blast to be around – what with that huge chip on your shoulder. Keep being a jerk; I’m sure it gets you far.
No, @Laura, @Sam makes the point that women want equality, except when they don’t.
I think he means women want equality except when it’s not beneficial for them. Like same pay as a man like you said. However, chivalry isn’t equality at all since the guy is going out of his way to do something for you. Equality would be everyone pulling out their own chair and whatnot. The point i believe he’s making is women want both chilvary and equality, whic are contradictory.
I blame feminism for being able to vote, able to own my house, able to open my own IRA/401K/bank account, able to go to grad school and earn a six-figure salary and help my husband by being a co-breadwinner. I did get what I asked for and I LOVE it.
I also opened 2 doors today. Good upper body warm-up for the gym tonight. It’s workable.
Amen! And to your list, I would add: make a 30% ROR on my 401K in 2013! 😉
Damn, girl!!! Will you manage my 401K too?
Sam, the only change in chivalry/courtesy that I’ve seen is young men sitting on the bus, with their toddlers occupying a seat next to them while elderly people lurch around trying to find seats for each other. I don’t think this has anything to do with feminism.
Someone once said to me, “If men could apologize there would be no feminism.”
Great list, and I agree 100%. My husband did/does everything on that list which made him a real stand out to me. Nine blissful years and two children later I can’t imagine anyone else in my life. You get back what you put out there, and I treat him with the same respect he affords me. Men take note!
That’s what feminism has wrought: blog posts such as this one, from some guy who doesn’t actually understand the history of chivalry, to highlight how much of a gentleman he is.
The trouble here is that feminism and the public education system have destroyed this kind of behaviour which, ironically, most women enjoy. Here’s the deal, ladies: instead of glorifying this guy’s (partially) self-serving post, go attack the feminists for how they’re wrecking it by trying to change men from the time they’re little boys.
You know that bullying thing you hate? You know, the one that takes billions of dollars, all the teachers (read: women) and their respective unions, and every pink T-shirt in the world to combat (in)effectively? Here’s the dirty little secret – it’s never going away. Ever. What you should be doing is letting the boys’ fathers teaching on bullies sink in. Then you’ll be able to watch in amazement when other boys one day teach the bully a lesson he’ll not soon forget. Then you’ll be equally amazed at how they develop healthy conflict resolution skills which will actually prepare them for the real world beyond your little elementary school world.
You know the “anything boys can do girls can do better” attitude and accompanying, so-called ’empowering’, t-shirts that you let little girls wear to school? The further reinforcement of the lie that boys and girls are the same does precious little to advance your hopes of one day getting a door opened for you. In fact, it causes boys to value girls less. You want to be treated the same as boys? Fine, get ready for wedgies, Charlie horses, black eyes, and tough guy contests.
Oh, and stop picking and choosing which elements of chivalry you’d like to maintain and which you’d like to do without. You know why? You don’t want your men thinking of you as their mother, do you? Then stop trying to nag them. You want even more chivalry? Try doing some of those things which used to evoke the best in men. Try wearing dresses and shaving your legs once in a while, instead of hiding behind the ‘we only do this because of a patriarchal, misogynist society which has long abused…’ trope.
Long and short of it? You get exactly what you deserve. Those men who still do these things are doing them despite your best efforts to eradicate their behaviour.
What school are you going to? And what t-shirts are you seeing?
Did you really just suggest that women shave their legs and wear dresses to get men to pull out their chairs?
Very weird.
Jamie – you read that long diatribe? Kudos.
I lost a few brain cells in the process. Still not sure what was being said. Don’t recommend it.
General – seriously good stuff. Couldn’t agree more.
On a side note, I thought the same thing you did about the labeling of this behavior as “chivalry”. Oh – I didn’t realize there were so many people that wanted to resurrect civil warfare among the elite. Holding my annoying rich neighbor for ransom instead of killing him when he acts the fool? Check!
General – seriously good stuff. Couldn’t agree more.
On a side note, I thought the same thing you did about the labeling of this behavior as “chivalry”. Oh – I didn’t realize there were so many people that wanted to resurrect civil warfare among the elite. Holding my annoying rich neighbor for ransom instead of killing him when he acts the fool? Check!
I’ve performed all these acts of chivalry. It’s ALWAYS been noticed.
Good man Charles. The secret to a woman’s pants.
some of the suggestion are great: respectful, courteous, helpful…and also rooted in practicality. but some of this is pointlessly obsolete…like, when was the last time you saw anybody hit by garbage thrown out a window? and what’s the practical purpose of having a woman wait in the passenger seat while the guy runs around the car to open her door. snort at me if you please, but in my point of view, if the act doesn’t serve some real function (other than perpetuating outdated manners), there’s a good chance the act is rooted in sexist thinking that assumes women are the weaker–and less capable–gender. and that’s wrong-headed motivation.
this article is full of outdated horse s***. i can see holding doors open for women but dropping her off before parking the car? opening her car door for her? many women i know would take that as sexist, and would say it shows that i don’t think they can take care of themselves. there’s a reason why these acts of ‘chivalry’ aren’t practiced anymore. and let me give you a hint, it isn’t because men aren’t caring anymore.
quite hard nose Alex.
MikeNZ
Made me laugh! Horsesh*t it is.
Hopefully you’ll find a partner that doesn’t mind your self-serving ways. Just remember that you can get more with honey than with vinegar.
The way I treat my partner and the way I treat every other man that I encounter aren’t the same. Obviously.
Recently I visited Cuba and all guys are like this. This is part of their education. Al first, I was very surprised, even offended, because in Spain this is uncommon, typical from old men, but I realised that I really loved that behaviour and every single woman would do. So, guys, take note :)))
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I do all of these for my partner except the last one. I’ve suggested it a few times, but they insist they’d rather walk with me.. any thoughts ladies?
Just ask your dates. Women are not one uniform substance. What I or other women here want might not be what your date wants.
A healthy woman will be more impressed that you’re interested in getting to know HER than in your extensive knowledge of arcane and obsolete rules of gender-specific social behavior.
Bringing these back is fine then stop complaining about making a dollar an hour less than we do.
A woman has to earn thus stuff just like we have to earn respect.
Good to know. I’m going to make every man I meet earn my courtesy and politeness tomorrow.
Are you high?!? Then don’t complain when you don’t get sex when you want it. Remember, foreplay for a women oftentimes begins in the brain.
I haven’t counted it up, but an awful lot of men on here are saying that if chivalry is dead women brought it on themselves, and an awful lot of women are saying they don’t want chivalry, they want courtesy by everyone for everyone. If I’m right, it’s another example of men not listening to women and then trying to punish women who don’t want what men want them to want. Can they trade in the chivalry for better pay? Do you get paid more for being chivalrous?
It’s more like $5 an hour, or roughly $10,000 a year. Is that the price of your maybe behaving like a decent human being? Actually, if you think women shouldn’t be complaining about less pay for equal work, you may not even be on the decent-human continuum.
Agreed, great article. My mom would slap me to this day, if I didn’t do all of these things!
I agree that chivilary goes a long way to getting laid…i mean most girls eat that shit up…but i think this is very hypocritical when it comes to gender equality….if women want equality then they should be treated equally…which means you get the good and the bad…lol…why do women expect the best of everything and equality!!…doesnt make any sense
A lot of women here are saying they prefer equality to this stuff. Are you skipping their posts?
And it’s been shown that “benevolent sexism” like chivalry goes hand-in-hand with hostility toward non-conforming women (as these comments illustrate): https://medium.com/get-bullish/5088b50ec7d
Surely you want the best of everything and what? What is the second thing you’d want along with the best of everything.
This is a good article to read. The problem I have with it is its a great way to stay single. Women nowadays are so independent that they don’t want a gentleman. They want someone a little rough around the edges. Its one thing for women to say this is what they want. It totally different than what they actually will date. Am a perfect gentleman to the teeth. But it will keep me single. If I act like a knuckle head, dont pay them that much attention than I can pull all the women I want. Women will say they want a good man but they don’t. If you be a gentlemen than to them it’s to good to be true. Its like a catch 22.
I like being dropped off at the building if its raining or otherwise bad weather. Also, depends on my clothing and shoes. I don’t really need a guy to open the car door.
If I’m on a romantic date, I like when a man stands up to greet me at the table, pulls out a chair or opens a door. But for me, this is date activity.This isn’t something I demand from dates. It’s something I use to assess how excited a man is to be hanging out with me. Does he take being on a date with me seriously enough that he looks for little gestures to please me?
Probably if I’m sick, tired or pregnant someday, I’ll want to be sure I’m married to a polite gentleman who considers my feelings and needs and acts to help us be a happy team together. He doesn’t need to do every little thing all the time, but if its needed or desired, someone observant enough and who things my feelings are important enough to step up if necessary. So the biggest thing I’ll be looking for is someone who takes my feelings and needs very, very seriously. Someone like that is a person I can spend my life with.
I don’t often need the other things. WHat some of the complaining men on here fail to realize is that these things aren’t done because a woman wants them necessarily or has asked for them. They are done because YOU want to be the kind of person who looks out for others and uses your strength to lift up those around you. Don’t do this list or any other list reflexively. Do it with care. Don’t give your seat up to a 20 year old girl on the subway who’s dancing to music on her iPod, just because you “Should”. Unless you want to. Or because this may be her only chance today to be seen with value and humanity, instead of viewed with lust by a man. It may touch her heart and make her feel seen, cared about. But don’t do it because you “Have” to or because “hateful wymen” demand it.
But be alert, look around. Give up your seat to the tired looking person. The person whose face is etched with worry. Give it to the elderly man or woman, or the girl struggling to balance all of her heavy college textbooks. The pregnant person. Open doors because it’s fun or makes you happy, and because you see people’s faces light up when you do something nice for them. If you’re having a tough day or feel generally angry at women or life, don’t do it. Sit there and relax. And be creative. There are far many other things besides opening doors and giving up seats to be a hero to people in the world. There are millions of lonely, needy people, or people who just feel plain ordinary, like their life holds no wonder. Be a joy to some of them in some thoughtful way. But do it for love and joy. Not obligation.
Rather than holding doors for me or pulling out chairs or walking curbside, things that would go much much farther for me to feel valued, protected, safe and happy being around men:
1. When I speak in a room full of men act as if my opinions carry the same weight as the mens’. Act as if what I have to say has value and interest.
2. If I say I can do something, please take me seriously. I can. (I’m kind of BA but some men are too busy looking at the alpha male in the room to notice).
3. If I need help with something, I don’t mind a strong or knowledgeable person helping me to move furniture or repair my car. I like to do nice things for others, and it makes me feel good when people help me with things I can’t do. But if I want to learn the skill myself to be more independent, please guide me with instruction and don’t take over the entire task. Sometimes that’s what kind people do.
4. If we are friends or dating or family members, be supportive of my dreams and desires. You would be surprised at the women who are still given subtle or even overt messages that they “can’t” or “shouldn’t” do things they desire because they are women. Feeling trivialized can be a big problem.
5. If we are dating or married, do not assume that standard chores such as housecleaning, cooking or childcare are all mine. We can split up the chores by ability and desire (from cooking, cleaning, yard care and car care) so that each of us feels like an even load is being carried. This can vary by whose career is in a busy season or ill, who is doing a special project or who is burnt out on something. But both of us will need to be flexible. This step alone would make up for EVER holding a door for me ever again. Seriously. I would rather find a man who would do this for me. Regardless, I’m looking for a thoughtful man who cares how well my life is running.
6. If it’s dark outside, or there are threatening circumstances, offering to accompany me to my car or to the door of my apartment. One in four women is raped in her lifetime, and this fact affects our lives and choices deeply. By doing this simple act of courtesy, you help prevent this, but also make me feel safe and loved.
7. Don’t try to push, cajole, manipulate or shame me into having sex or performing sex acts. I’m strong enough at this point in my life that those techniques won’t work on me, and I’ll just plain lose respect for you. But there are plenty of women that these activities damage deeply even though they can’t be classified legally as “rape”. Unfortunately you may have picked up one or more of these bad habits because you were told they were acceptable, out of habit or frustration, being told you are “less” of a man if you don’t get laid, or that a woman “owes” it to you. She doesn’t and it’s wrong and destructive. If you’ve ever done this, repent, apologize if possible and if you think that will help, and move forward. No amount of door holding could ever make up for this kind of treatment.
I always smile and say thank you to ANYONE holding a door or doing some other gesture. I love social moves that keep a warm feeling moving around. If a person (or woman) does NOT seem pleased or corrects you, ignore it and move on. Don’t ever do an act of politeness because you “owe” it to women, or because women “owe” you something back for being nice. Do it because you want to be a nice person. If you’re doing something because you think you “should” or because you think people “owe” you something for doing something nice, then you aren’t really being nice.
If it makes you resentful that a (probable) Minority of women dislike having a door held, then don’t do it. If it makes you happy to know most women enjoy the gesture then do it. Keep in mind that for women its a way of feeling that men in general value them and that they are important. There is a whole world out there eager to tell women that they don’t matter unless they are a size 2, have big boobs and a botoxed face. And even then they can only matter if they seduce powerful men or are willing to “put out”. by doing every day gestures of love, you’re changing that paradigm one woman at a time.
I’m a woman who’s spent time in the military, was a snowboarding instructor, I’ve been skydiving, used to run 10ks for a hobby, worked in all male environments in the tech industry etc etc. I’m in grad school and frankly, I”m a feminist. A raging one. I don’t “demand” that a man do ANY of the things from this article. I’ve had to defend myself, pay for myself etc. But I deeply appreciate the men in my life who make me feel lovely and cherished. Those men hold a special place in my heart.
I have a male friend, who considers himself a male feminist and had a corporate lawyer mother and stay at home father. He is the EPITOME of gentleman to me. I adore this man, he holds doors for me, does many favors for me, and calls me “Miss R….” He has done more than most men to restore my sense of respect and power in the world. He has advocated for me in numerous ways. He doesn’t do these things because he “has” to or because I asked, he does it because it gives him pleasure to feel like a good person who cares for other peoples’ well being.
Gentlemen. Go hold doors. Or not. But stand up. Be strong. Be counted. And know that the good that you do in the world matters deeply, whether or not people are always able to receive it. Be good, and be loved.
Well said.
Please fully understand what you’re agreeing to tolerate with your request: https://medium.com/get-bullish/5088b50ec7d
I shared this article on my Facebook wall, and then a ‘feminist’ guy shared it calling it Sexist Bullshit, and I think you might enjoy the debate that ensued. Over a hundred comments. https://www.facebook.com/patrick.mcelcheran/posts/10153872267480193?comment_id=47775349&offset=0&total_comments=188¬if_t=share_reply
When my Son (Who’s is now in college. Leaving his name out for his privacy.) he walked out of an elevator ahead of some ladies, I yelled, boy get back here to hold the door for the ladies. He stood there holding the door head down then to the thanks from the ladies, he looked up meekly and said “Sorry, I’m a gentleman in training.” We all chuckled, but he knew there was going to be penance for his mis-step in walking out in front of ladies.
When the movie was over and we were on the way home he asked what was his punishment I promised. I told him that when he got home and before dinner he would have to hand write all the Gentleman Rules I’ve taught him. And in his second grade hand writing, syntax and spelling he expounded on the rules he’d learn.
He even included in the cutest language that when walking with a lady, the lady goes first through doors that he would hold, he would always walk on the traffic side of the sidewalk and approaching stairs the lady always goes first… B U T …when approaching stairs that they were to descend, he would have to assert that he would have to go first…when asked by the lady, why? He wrote he’d say “To catch you if you fall.” and then parenthetically he mentioned (Hope she’s not too much taller than me.)
I laughed so hard I had to excuse myself from his room while I was reading this section so he wouldn’t take any of the rules lightly. I really need to find and scan those pages!!! LMAO! WOW I love my Son more than words can say.
Live Aloha,
Paul Klink
http://www.LiveAloha.org
[…] 8 Acts Of Chivalry To Bring Back. […]
Reblogged this on Renew Laser and Cosmetics.
Hey Brenda,
I do the chivalry bit and I can beat you in the marriage stakes – 59 years and COURTING.
One additional caring way – Men, help your lady on with her coat/jacket, especially in a crowded place. As the coat settles on her shoulders give her a little pat on each shoulder. Lets her know you really care. If you know her really well make that pat a small tender squeeze.
Brenda and your Spouse, keep it up, well done.
[…] Don’t settle for a man – settle for a gentleman. […]
as an older woman, I agree with all of the above except one…. the walking on the street side …. I think if he were to walk on the inside it would make me feel safer… alleys are good hiding places for muggers, or other bad people to jump out and grab a woman while making demands… I’d think if the man were on the inside, it may be less of a deterrent, and this type of person would look elsewhere for their next victim. Yes this has happened in my past.
If you dot this for a girl you just met or are dating you are an idiot. For your fiancé or wife sure but ChivAlry in this day and age is earned it given. Gone are they days when every or almost every woman wasn’t playing the field
Two other chivalrous things. 1. Offer to carry her packages for her. I have arthritis in my hands and it’s getting very difficult for me to hold onto things, and I often drop them. Even when younger I would often attempt to carry more than I could comfortably hold. 2. PUT THE TOILET SEAT DOWN! It’s not that hard, and it pleases most women! No it doesn’t make since, but it’s a girl thing!
Put the LID down. That’s equality.
Well, yes, it actually does make sense to those of us who have fallen into the toilet in the middle of the night
What a breath of fresh air. These 8 acts are acts my husband has done since the day we were married. Without even realizing it, I’ve caught my son doing the same acts with his girlfriend. Yes, children do copy what their parents do. May this continue!
Neat, an article detailing the quickest route to the friend-zone!
Reblogged this on calusma.
A word about holding doors…sometimes it isn’t the act but the execution that can annoy me. As a woman it makes me extremely uncomfortable when a man holds a door open in such a way as to force me to either squeeze past him or under his armpit. In those cases I would much rather just get the door myself. And often a man will beligerently say “No, go ahead” when it puts me in an unteneble position… get uncomfortably close with a complete stranger or appear rude. So gentlemen I appreciate the gesture but either step out and hold the door from the outside or graciously accept if I say I’ve got it.
Great point!
As I was growing up I learned these mannerisms and put them into use for both genders; I hold the door for the old man, for the fellow teenagers, for the woman, blah blah blah.
Why don’t we all just do these common courtesies and shut up about them?
Good question! I feel we’ve been sold a line of bull about our behaviors.
I don’t think they are being taught anymore. My dad taught me to LET the guys be a gentlemen, and my husband was grateful I did, even 10 yrs ago, because other girls wouldn’t let him. It’s a lost art of gentlemen kindness and lady class.
But that’s not what women want. Even good God fearing Christian women. I do all these things with a woman I really care about. They take it as a sign of weakness. Women I don’t have a strong bond with, I might not do these things and they can’t get enough of me. Women say they want these things, but they don’t. It’s say really, because that’s the kind of man I want to be. But it always gets me heartbreak. When I’m not doing these things I can’t get rid of the woman. My rant. But it’s true.
You couldn’t be more wrong in saying women say they want that but don’t. It’s definitely NOT a sign of weakness. It’s a sign of boldness to do these things with confidence. Someewomen are lacking in the self-confindence area themselves and if they aren’t used to being treated well and held in high regard they may feel uncomfortable with it only because they don’t know how to act in such situations as they have been treated like “just anyone, nothing special”. But if you are attracted to women who see this as weakness then there is a reason. A strong confident woman would never see this as weak, she would be graceful and used to being treated well. If I were you I would look for a woman that appreciates herself. Best of luck 🙂
I think the problem here is that you are describing women and not ladies. Ladies will also stand out in a crowd by being gracious and grateful for the actions listed above. A woman may not. You have to ask yourself if you want a lady or a woman. Many guys think they want a lady when they really want a woman ( characterized by an easy relationship with little, to no strings.) Ladies are harder to find ( just like a good gentleman! ) and need more effort but they are absolutely worth it! If a lady is truly what you want, be patient.
Sad but true. I used to do all these things to until I finally realized it just earns you disrespect.
I can’t tell you how many women I know would love an opportunity to prove you wrong. I’m fortunate in that my husband is basically a walking, talking description of all of the above signs of chivalry. Sadly, I also understand that your belief that women don’t want this is also largely due to a small number of women who, as you said, chose to make assumptions as to the weakness of men who have manners. This is one of the many reasons I have issues with taking on a “feminist” tag. So many misguided women out there who treat every courtesy as a battle rather than simply say “thank you” and appreciate that they just met a good man.
Have they told you they see your courtesy as a sign of weakness, or are you just assuming that because it’s what everyone else seems to say?
You are so wrong Tim. My husband has always from our first date to the present opened car doors not only for me but if we are doubling with another couple he will also open the other woman’s door too. He has received many a strange looks from the other woman’s date or husband. He always is a gentleman and walks near the street. This is just one of the many things I have loved about him. I don’t see him as weak I see him as a man that feels confident about himself.
To Tim and Juan: I would second Shawnia and Sarah’s remarks, and add that it’s harder for a woman to accept gentlemanly acts because so many women nowadays just know how to do it properly. Take for example the simple act of one of you pulling out the chair. The lady in question must manage her dress (especially if long) whilst keeping her balance (on ever taller heels) as she simultaneously sits on air facing the table in the right direction and prays that you get the chair in the right place at the right time so that she can gracefully sit without plopping or having to pull the chair closer to her to avoid losing her balance. It’s actually harder than getting into the car. I was taken to Ballroom Dance classes in the mid-60s where we also learned (more or less) how to do these other things, and at 62 I still have trouble with the chair routine! It truly is a “dance,” and we all need to get some practice! Unfortunately, we ladies have gotten very rusty after decades of having to do for ourselves because of the (so-called) Women’s Liberation Movement.
Wild how these men seem to have bad luck with this approach – It’s worked for me since I was 5. Ladies like gentlemen – if you legitimately believe acting this way makes you appear weak, man or woman, they you have a very skewed perception of moral fiber, manhood, and being a natural leader. Congratulations, you’re the alpha males of the wolf-pack, so you should probably stay away from the lionesses that us lions like to treat with equality and dignity and just stick with the she-wolves of the valley.
Ladies love being treated in such a way that shows you have interest and that you actually give-a-damn. If being a gentleman has not worked in your life, for anything; then, most likely, there is another blatant issue that the women of your past have picked-up on. A lack of maturity seems to be the logical candidate for this mystery – either from the boys themselves, or the girls they think are ladies.
Hey Tim,
If women you really care about are perceiving you or your actions as weak, but women you don’t bond with can’t get enough of you, then I’d say the problem lies in the difference in your behavior not including the opening of doors and pulling out of chairs. If a woman is attracted to you, she’ll find all your chivalry delightful. If she’s not attracted, she’ll find it annoying.
With the women you care about, you’re probably waiting for their reaction to your actions, being more submissive, giving them control over you and the situation. In many cases women do perceive this as weak, even though it’s what we as men have been misled to believe is a way of showing respect to our women: give them power in the way that we would want it. But this isn’t usually what women want. If they realize they can push you around, they won’t trust you. Show initiative, be a confident, decisive leader, while taking their needs into consideration constantly. Then open a door and pull out a chair.
You probably show no signs of being easily manipulated by women you don’t care much for. Figure out what it is you’re projecting with those women, and project more of it with the ones you care about. Trust me, it works. It’s not dishonest, it’s just a change of attitude. She will thank you for it.
Good luck.
Even if you “think” women don’t want this… Even if they “act” like they don’t want this… trust me….DO IT anyway! Do it because you’re a gentleman. Do it because it’s the right thing to do. Do it for those that don’t appreciate it. Do it until they learn to appreciate it OR do it until you find one who DOES appreciate it. Be confident in doing this because it’s what you should do, and don’t compromise just because you “think” some women don’t want it!
I’m thinking your whole life might be a sign of weakness.
“But that’s not what women want. Even good God fearing Christian women.”
I’m having trouble understanding why you would expect a God fearing Christian woman to be more interested in door-holding or a seat on the bus than any other woman.
Yes you are right for both genders. I am a 62 year old female. I live in a more rural small town now but I grew up in Staten Island NY and lived and worked in NYC into my thirties. I took city buses/ subways for many years. I think I learned in elementary school which was kthru8 back then to give up your seat for an older person/ mother with kids. etc. I can remember many times sitting on the bus subway. I was prob13- and up giving up my seat for an older person or a parent/ babysitter with young ones. You just did it. everyone did. Maybe it still happens in the city . Buses and subways so crowded many stand. I don’t go there that often but the last time I was on the subway I gave up my seat for an older person and I have seen others do it. conversely I can remember being on the subway with my young daughter and a fellow passenger gave up their seat for me.
I agree with most of these – but not the giving up a seat one. I will give up my seat for an elderly person. I will give up my seat for a pregnant woman. Giving up my seat to a healthy, 25 year old woman? Nope.
Young men are not being taught to do these things. Excellent post. Very true that women appreciate these things.
Unfortunately many us men who were taught and implement these mannerisms got taught by women along the way that these mannerisms are an unattractive trait synonymous with weakness…. While the jerks and losers are the eye-catchers. Sad but true. I’d love to see an article written where women are encouraged to think more about what it is that they REALLY want.
Open any women’s magazine and, after the vapid articles about which shade of pink is in, there will be numerous p articles on how to impress on a date, how to please your man, how to catch a man’s attention and other such fodder. Men have simple steps to follow. Women have to jump through hoops, or at least are Taught they have to.
The recipe is very simple. Be who you are because you’re not going to be happy with someone you’re constantly pretending with. If you want a gal who appreciates chivalry then you must be chivalrous. If you don’t want to be chivalrous you’ll have to settle for a different kind of woman. I see it as a weeding task. Men and women are eliminating bad options for themselves through their actions and inactions. Be as gentlemanly or boorish as you wish. Women be as feminine or classless as you wish. There’s someone for everyone and the best way to find that someone is to behave as you normally would. Just remember, you get what you give. Be picky.
Bravo, Trippet!
Don’t give up Rudy. There ARE women out there who appreciate these things. Do not become complacent just because there are ungrateful women. They are alone, in their hearts and possibly in their lives. Please don’t give up. Okay?
Totally agree with you. Women kill chivalry.
Rudy, how many women along the way have told you that courtesy is unattractive and synonymous with weakness? What kind of situations brought this on?
I can’t speak for the women in your age range rosemary but 20-30 year old women are actively repulsed — “ewwww creeper” — by the majority of this list.
It’s not just the younger ones. The list made my skin crawl. Reminded me of the guy called Mystery who used to have a show teaching the “Venusian Arts” on VH1–I think it was called The Pick-up Artist. One of the prime lessons he was teaching these guys was to get a woman off-base and second-guessing herself before you do anything else. Same coin, different sides.
Are you kidding me? Who would I be doing this for a 70yr old women? The average woman from 18 -30 will say this want this ish, but in real life they go for the guy who treats them like crap. Wanna hold open the door? Great!!! She will say your a “good guy”, Wanna give up your seat, in class/bus/anywhere? Awesome!!!! She’ll say your sweet. But when it comes times to find a partner she won’t be looking for those who are good guys or sweet. Only after they have been used by men who do NONE of these things and they are in their 30’s usually dragging someones bastard behind them, do they want a good guy. Fuck that!!!
Bitter much? LOL I feel sad for you sir.
I was going to say nearly the same thing… angry much? And the last choice of words is what separates you from gentlemen.
No way. He’s dead on. Lol
I’m still a gentleman because its the right thing to do…. But he speaks truth.
He’s spot-on. I do every one of the 8 things listed in the article pretty darn consistently, and although it gives ME a sense of right, it generally does nothing for most members of the opposite sex. Women prefer men who treat them marginally okay. That’s just how it is, and it’s not bound by race, education, or socioeconomic factors. It’s a woman thing.
Women don’t even know what they want… So when someone opens the door, pulls out the chair, walks them to the door – they don’t know what to think and simply classify us as “good guy”. And let’s face it, good guys aren’t what a girl wants, no matter how many times she’s been mistreated by a bad boy johnny. No one knows for sure why.
Could it be rooted in sex? Quite possibly. Recent unscientific polling revealed that sexually, women prefer a man who can respect her in the real world while “treating her like the little slut she is” in the bedroom. And that isn’t something that always come naturally to someone who opens doors and pulls out chairs – so they think.
Their loss, I say. If a particular woman doesn’t appreciate those little gestures of respect, it will not stop me from doing them unless she asks otherwise. Like I mentioned before, these ideas of chivalry are just as much for me as they are for her.
Mike H — please post up a picture of your girlfriend. My gut tells me she’s incredibly low value and that’s why you get away with these things…
All it takes is a picture to show you a woman’s value?
Kevin Harris hit it right on the head saying that a woman with low value does not want the things listed in this article. I have been exactly the type of woman Mike H said was in the statistics because the guy I had been with consistently beat me down to the point that I didn’t think I deserved any of that and it wasn’t just guys I dated, but also my father who made me feel less than all the time. If a woman is not brought up to be confident and know what she is supposed to expect from a significant other, they shy away from the men that are willing to give them everything because it makes them uncomfortable. After fourteen years of a truly horrible marriage, I have realized what I want and that I deserve it and any and all of these things listed in this article truly sound like a real gentleman and someone that I wished my husband would have continued to be even after we got married, not just while we were dating. This described him to a T when we dated, but it all disappeared after he felt he “won me”. Guys who think that women don’t want these things may be right, but I’m telling you, those women don’t feel like they deserve those things if they’re making you feel like they don’t want them. Either find a way to help boost their confidence or look for a woman who already is confident and willing to accept the chivalry. This list in my mind is something I, as a woman, even do for other people. You see something you can do for others, so you do it. I open doors for men, women, children, and elderly all the time if they are carrying things, seem very busy, or just look like they need help in any way. If everyone in the world would act this way, it would be considered more as common courtesy than chivalry. I believe it’s called being a good person. Don’t stop being a good person to try to be the “bad boy” that you think women want. Those “bad boys” are great for a good time, but not someone to spend the rest of your life with.
not the case for all women. As most women which do appreciate these small acts of kindness, I look for qualities like these in a partner, but it is hard to find. Doesn’t mean I give in and date the next jerk that comes along. I wait until I find what I want. Maybe you just haven’t found the right woman who does appreciate these things. These women do exist….and so do these types of men.
On the contrary there are very few woman who actually do look for men like this. My self and a few of my friends. Maybe your looking in the wrong place for woman who actually appriciate the kind acts that men do. I have a friend who let my cousin use his umbrella for the day so she wouldn’t get wet in the rain. Men like this are rare and just giving up and saying fuck it means that you are giving up on finding that one woman who would find you charming. Try looking for a woman in the nerd area they seem to be more appriciative
Hey Joe – It probably depends on what kind of woman you’re looking for. If you want a girl who devotes most of her time and energy to appearances and maintaining control over her life, then there’s a good chance that all the women you’ve been interested in will look for the same qualities in you. This kind of woman is probably going to admire the way you gave up your seat, as long as you work out 5 days a week and have a nice car, a steady job, and cool friends who will hang out with you at the lake. These kind of girls find men who also display power and control over their lives. After spending enough time with these kind of men, sometimes they wake up later in life, and start valuing other qualities.
Personally, since I was young I’ve decided to pursue girls who value qualities like character, integrity, kindness, and adventure. There are at least as many girls out there with these qualities. But don’t be surprised when she looks and acts differently than your stereotypical sorority girl. Maybe there are plenty of girls around that you think are “nice girls” that you would never consider dating, Joe.
Or, just as possibly, you might have personal issues that cause the reasonable women around you to think you would make a terrible husband or dad, and so you form unhealthy codependent relationships with women who consistently devalue you because they devalue themselves. Self-reflection is key, Joe, but it starts with you and not with them.
You said it perfectly Jacob!!
Right on the money!
I cannot tell you how tired I am of comments like this, Joe. I am a woman, just turned 30 “dragging someone’s bastard behind me”, but here’s the difference. I never wanted a bad guy or “asshole”. All I ever looked for in a man was a good man who treated me with love and respect that I could treat the same in turn. It was ironically the qualities above that attracted me to me ex and ended with me trapped in a 6 year long abusive relationship that came close to destroying me. Ironically it was “my bastard” as you so eloquently put it that gave me the strength to walk away. Now 3 years on and having run into many good, kind men I am finally coming round the idea of relationships again and still my mind set has not changed. Still I would look for a good man. Maybe he will do the things listed above, maybe he won’t, but above all, what I’ve learned is that the right man for me, a good man, will love me as I am. Accept my past for what it is. Give me a hug if I feel overwhelmed. Help me through some residual fears. One who will accept my mistakes and accept my flaws and will stand by me no matter what. One who I in turn will treat with the same respect and love, but above all, a man who will look at my child and love him regardless of where he came from, knowing that whatever else, it was not that little guy’s fault whatever happened and most importantly of all, will love him as a part of me and my life. Regardless of whatever else this man may do, to me, this is a good man and this is the man I would willingly follow to the ends of the earth to build a future together. Sometimes I fear, reading comments like this, that this type of man may be even rarer than the chivalrous man. The biggest lesson I learned from my past relationship is that not all “good men” are in fact, good men, but the day I let my experiences turn me as bitter as it seems you have become, will be the day I have lost me. No man is to blame for what happened to me beyond my ex and I’ll be damned if I ever punish anyone or speak in anger against any man for what one man did to me. I hope one day you find a good woman who will sooth the pain that has evidently been done to you.
So basically; the prime years of your life were used up by another guy and now a “good guy” is supposed to swoop in and provide for you and this other guy’s bastard? If you’re only 30 — you’re gonna probably have to look to 40+ to find that guy… No single 30 year old is gonna do any more than use you as a c-dumpster unless he’s so low value that you’re disgusted looking at him.
You chose your partner poorly — stop blaming everyone else.
Jesus, Kevin, will you learn to pay attention? Read it again. She was married, so the child is not a bastard. And she herself says, “It was ironically the qualities above that attracted me to me ex,” Sounds to me like she chose as you would have had her choose, and wound up with a monster.
I feel sorry for you. I have recently found that in a man . I have never been treated like this but now I have.. i love it!!!! oh and I am not 30. you should try it or maybe you are afraid!!!!
American Joe. You’ve either been mistreated by a female, for which you may be punishing all women, or you are just misinformed, possibly by other men who, for various reasons, have no respect for women. Just stand on your own two feet, give it a try and bask in the new found appreciation and respect you receive from women you encounter. Try it! You’ll like it! 😊 The women will like it too! 😀 Enjoy the new, improved Joe. I assure you that your female counterparts will be impressed and appreciative😃this will render a happier Joe! 😀
Step 1 to dating women;
Never listen to any advice a woman gives you about dating — ever.
Wow….well here’s a thought on your whole idea. You hold the door open for women? Wonderful. You gave up your seat like a gentleman? Even better. So it sounds like you;re looking for a lady. The girls who only date men that treat them like crap are just that…girls. You don’t need a girl. You need a woman. Huge difference there. HUGE difference. Only girls like bad boys. Girls like the drama. Girls enjoy the back and forth chase and game of control. A real woman doesn’t even mess with all of that.
Find yourself a lady…not a girl.
They don’t become women until they start showing signs of aging. Women under 30 have so many options and they know it. They simply don’t care to be classy until their options start dwindling.
Alycia is 100% right. I will always be a gentleman. My mother was 100% English, and my father is retired career military. Manners were drilled into us early.
I respectfully suggest that you, and the other men who’ve stated that your response is “spot on” (or believe it to be so) would do well to take a very close and thoughtful look at the kind of women you are hanging around and/or are attracted to. Are they vapid, self-absorbed, and immature? Well… there ya go.
Well unfortunately vapid, self-absorbed, and immature do describe the typical Western feminist. Women who don’t have these qualities are the exception. That being said – all females want the highest quality mate that they can get and the guys acting like Prince Charming are usually the bottom rungs of the ladder in 2014.
Who are you hanging out with?
American Joe,
I do feel your pain on this. I’ve done a lot of chivalrous gestures to a lot of people (mostly females but to anyone) and it’s kept me single for a long time. And yes it is frustrating to see people who do none of those things and treat others like garbage and they somehow get what they want.
While it makes me confused and sometimes furious, I’d much rather be the one who does the nice and good things and gets what i’m looking for than be the person who doesn’t appreciate what they have and resorts to being mean and nasty to get what they want. I know who I am and I’m not going to change. If a woman doesn’t appreciate my acts of good deeds and kindness, then I don’t want to be with her at all. I’ll keep searching for that someone who does appreciate me for those qualities that I have.
I’m beginning to wonder if there might be something else going on with the gentlemen who don’t attract women. Are you guys (& not just Victor), counting on courtesy alone? Bad boys can be alluring, but I’ve noticed that sometimes good guys seem to be showing only one facet and after a while the relationship can start to feel empty. I hope this makes sense.
Boy you must have really gotten burned a few times. Maybe you need to take a better look at the women you are dating.
Meh…my friend has banged 300 women from the ‘girl next door’ to the ‘sweetheart’ to the stripper. All people are different but not nearly as different as they want to pretend.
American Joe is right. Women under 30 will never appreciate this behavior. It’s not until they have been dragged thru the mud and have a child or start aging before they realize that the bad boys aren’t worth it. While they’re young and hot, they want the most attractive guy they can find and do not care how awful he is as a person.
This is so frustrating. Where do you men get your information about women? From each other? Certainly not from women. One small example: bad guys are not always handsome; it’s not a requirement. But with bad guys, you get a lot of drama, ups and downs, adrenaline, and feelings of being exquisitely alive. There’s always a chance of doing something exciting and, believe it or not, bad guys are not always completely awful as people. Sometimes you’ll find one who’s occasionally more in tune with women than more respectable guys. In the end, it’s exhausting, the excitement begins to feel bore, any in-tuneness you might be lucky enough to experience can’t begin to compete with his demons. And then of course there’s the powerful feeling that you are going to be the one to save this guy.
“Cross-national comparisons show that hostile and benevolent sexism go hand-in-hand (that is, nations that endorse hostile sexism also endorse benevolent sexism). The beliefs work together because benevolent sexism “rewards” women when they fulfill traditional roles whereas hostile sexism punishes women who do not toe the line, thereby working together to maintain traditional relations. In other words, act sweet and they’ll pat you on the head; assert yourself and they’ll put you in your place.
Some of my coworkers had been to [Malone’s] wedding, which involved a lengthy sermon about patriarchy and his wife promising to “obey”, which my male coworkers described as “creepy.” My boss would sometimes bring his wife to the office. She thought her husband was basically a god, which might have had something to do with my having to work for a boss who thought he was a god.
Once, I made a web form that had a pulldown menu with two options: Female and Male. I had put them in alphabetical order, F before M. My boss went behind my back and had someone else change it, since “Male” is obviously the default.
My boss thought he was a pretty nice guy. One example of his being nice was politely asking me for my “feminine point of view” about a matter of web design. I was the lead web designer. I could’ve been a surgeon saving his life, but I still would have been female before anything else. And presumably my “feminine point of view” would have been interchangeable with any other woman’s.
An author friend and I recently kvetched about men who read female novelists and then want a gold star for it. This also implies that women have something more fundamental in common with each other than men do. This denies women the opportunity to be individuals, or really to even excel. Women are not interchangeable. (Imagine: “I’ve been reading a lot of male novelists lately, like David Foster Wallace and John Grisham. They have such a masculine energy!”)
I’m trying to imagine how uncomfortable my male dentist (for instance) would be if I watched him adjust the dental chair and then made a strange comment about how I “love men, all of them” for their “masculine genius.” That chair’s so heavy, I love to watch you adjust it. You really inspire me in my femininity! How dull the world would be without your manly gusto making it go ‘round.”
https://medium.com/get-bullish/5088b50ec7d
Great article on this type of benevolent sexism.
Jamie – Please allow me to express an apology on behalf of my gender for the poor treatment you have received. I would love to respond to a few of the many good points you made.
I think the idea of benevolent sexism is fascinating. It would certainly be unfair and demeaning to characterize a woman by her sex, for good or bad. I have been told repeatedly that I’m good at dancing, for being a white guy. On other occasions, that I am uncommonly tolerant and well educated considering how religious I am. Time and again, women have remarked that I have a surprising amount of emotional sensitivity as a man. I give these three characterizations as untrue biases that I have had to overcome because of unfair stereotypes.
On the other hand, the idea that gender has something in common beyond body parts is completely accepted in biology, neuroscience, and psychology. For instance – during certain periods of fetal brain development it is thought that boys have up to 10 times the level of testosterone. This has a profound influence on brain development that influences everything from the number of connections between the hemispheres of the brain (much higher for women), to the massive differences in the average amount of “gray matter” vs “white matter” in the male vs the female brain, which serve dramatically different functions.
I am not suggesting that any level of inequality exists. What I am suggesting is that some stereotypes based on sex may have foundations in reality. It is physically measurable that men, on average, build muscle more quickly than women. There are still plenty of women that could bench my body weight. Similar studies would suggest that women (on average) are wired to be more socially interconnected than men, regardless of culture or society. Massive studies have confirmed that the deviation of IQ varies more widely in men than women, meaning there are statistically more men who are analytical “geniuses”, and statistically more men who are borderline retards.
Now, let’s considers the concept of stereotypes. Let me use an example. I’m not the kind of guy who shoves his beliefs down the throats of others. But I commonly meet intelligent, well adjusted, successful atheists who express surprise that I am also relatively intelligent, well adjusted, and successful even though I have several degrees in theology. Are these people bigots? Or is it a valid point that their most common experience with Christians is that they are individuals with completely inflexible beliefs that are absolutely unfounded in science, history, philosophy, or even regular practice? My point is that many women, for better or worse, have experienced consistent patterns when interacting with the opposite sex. And the opposite is true as well.
If I comment on a woman being much physically stronger than me, am I sexist? Or is it true that most women are not as physically strong as me? If a man asks for your feminine opinion as a designer, is he sexist? Or is it possibly true that women and men often have different aesthetic preferences in the time and place of our culture? I’m not arguing if culture is “right” – I’m sure we could stand for a great amount of improvement in gender equality – but speaking as someone who also works as a professional designer, it would be financially foolish if you ignored the way your design impacted different segments of your target audience. There are measurable economics tied to the way your website is perceived. If you work for a big marketing firm, I guarantee you and your team of designers will introduce their concepts to any number of test groups to see if it is liked by “men”, “women”, “young”, “old”, “rich”, “average”, “techy”, “artsy”, or any number of other identifications. If you understand your market, you make more money. Welcome to business. But these differences appear in many ways beyond percetion. If I meet a woman who calls herself a professional photography and understands all of the technical aspects of photography as well as the artistic ones, I am surprised. Not because I think women are less capable, but because out of the dozens of photographers I’ve known, a much higher percentage of men seem to be motivated to learn the physics behind light, or the mechanics inside of a good lens. Being aware of gender differences might cause me to check for competencies that I might otherwise have taken for granted. Many women will want to make sure their man knows how to do his laundry – not because women are inherently more domesticated, but because out of the 60+ guys I had as housemates when I was between the ages of 18 and 27, maybe 5 of them did their laundry with any regularity.
Many of your examples are egregious stories of sexism, and I have no desire to defend the way you have been treated by men. Your boss sounds like a first class tool. But I would like to challenge your own biases concerning the lack of differences between men and women, and maybe help you understand why the men around you are surprised by your assertiveness in the professional world. I doubt if very many men see you as merely a “woman” without individual identity. If, on the other hand, your preconceptions equate gender language with “benevolent sexism”, than I would be unsurprised if you constantly felt undervalued by the men around you.
You both make very interesting arguments. I do not agree with the notion of bringing back chivalry – for men only. If I reach a door first, I open it for anyone behind me. I believe in being polite to everyone. If I am on a bus, I would not expect a young man to give up his seat for me. Maybe he had a longer day than I have or maybe I am just not as tired. Maybe I have been sitting all day and would rather stand. Let us not teach notions of chivalry that place any person in a separate priority level. Respect ourselves and each other.
As for biological differences – I do not always agree with science. Science has a tendency to overgeneralize and change its mind too often. What I would propose is ingrained socially constructed gender norms. Why are boys and girls different? And yes, they are different. I think it is built very deeply into the societal fabric where a child is in a toy store with their parents and they see distinct choices for toys. They see that there are boys on the blue packages and girls on the pink. Boys on the cars, fixing and building toys and girls on the beautifying, socializing and mothering toys. These images impress deeply and early upon our children.
Turn on the TV and they will see commercials about men trying the “housework” thing and messing it up. It is as much an insult to men as it is to women. They will see women who have the sole mission of being beautiful and the man’s mission is to have the most beautiful woman. Also an insult.. Most popular media still shows men in positions of power and women in positions of serving (save for a few examples). There are many more ways that our deeply set in norms are built – but anything that is constructed CAN be deconstructed.
I have plenty of personal examples to put forward, but what worries me more are the broader scale, ingrained fixations on gender roles that are still taking too long to change.
Jamie you sound awfully bitter. Let me guess – your boss’s wife was a beautiful or at least feminine woman and you don’t understand why all your professional accomplishments and feminist ideology haven’t landed you the man of your dreams? Unfortunately, it’s that whole Biology thing you’re actively fighting against…
Biology is dentistry
I was trying to put my finger on what bothered me about this post and you hit the nail on the head (and no, I’m not being sarcastic). Thanks!
I look forward to your list of 8 things that women should do for men for no other reason than because they are men. I’m sure it will be well-received.
It’s one thing to make a list of things that a loving man should do for his loving woman, that would be fine. But to imply that all men should observe these things for all women (complete strangers) is just ridiculous. Come join us in 2014 where we try to stamp out inequality.
I agree with Jeff Hampton. I think it would be nice for anybody, male or female, to give up their seat to an elderly person or someone who actually needed it more, but why should a man give up his seat to a perfectly able-bodied woman? Honestly I would not want to date a man who did these things because I find them condescending to the woman and unfair to the man. Jamie mentioned benevolent sexism, I think also if a woman expects a man to do these things for her she is not being fair to the man, because why should he always get the short end of the stick? Also, please don’t give compliments unless you really mean them. Giving a lot of compliments makes me think you’re insincere. Finally, and this may not apply to all women, but I really don’t care how beautiful you think I am. I know I am average and I am perfectly ok with that. Please notice how hard I work or how I always try to listen and make time for you, ect.
In response to Emily Thompson – as a man who is deeply in love with the girl of his dreams, I would not give up my seat to a woman my own age because showing diffidence to a stranger would imply that I was interested in her. I believe that upholding integrity in both heart and appearance has had a profound influence on the deep level of trust that I share with my partner. I also give my girl a lot of compliments because I find joy in encouraging her and building her up; I am simply intentional about finding unique insights into her character, personality, ethics, and even quirks. In searching those out to lift her up, I grow in appreciation and gratitude for the qualities she possesses. I often speak of how beautiful I think she is, because I don’t believe beauty is dependent on rarity. A flower is not beautiful because there are no other flowers, and I don’t believe any single flower is the archetype of beauty that all other kinds should ascribe to. I have no obligation to do many of the things on this list as acts of chivalry – but I often do because I don’t really care if I get “the short end of the stick” when I act out of kindness to others at my own expense. I do them because they are a means to express my value in others, whether those who are close to me, or a stranger I don’t know. I don’t need “fair treatment” because I am strong enough and I work hard enough to have extra that I may pour into the things I care about. Emily, as a capable and intelligent woman, in no way do you “need” a man to do these things. But I absolutely believe you can look for a man who finds delight in expressing his care for you in a sacrificial way, and searches for small details that will show how much he respects and values you. And if you value and display these qualities yourself, you will attract that kind of man.
Jeff Hampton, thank you for humorously encapsulating my reactions of frustration and disappointment to this list.
I read the list because it was summarized as “men (and women) who strive to be the best versions of themselves.” But the very first item (giving up your seat) equates women with elderly people. Thank you, that’s very chivalrous (and so progressive).
If every single feminine pronoun were changed to one without a gender, I’d share this list.
As it is, I wish there were a “dislike” button. If you really want to be respectful, treat a female acquaintance as you would treat a male: without judgement.
Agreed. It’s one thing to perform actions like these if it’s sincerely out of kindness and regardless of gender. It’s quite another when you’re doing so only for women, thereby upholding the assumption that women are delicate flowers who apparently can’t comprehend how doors and chairs work.
Umm… I’ve got 6 if you’d like… 6 Act of Chivalry to Bring Back [Women’s addition]
Be a Chivalrous woman.
Try your best to be kind to everyone. That can include most everything mentioned in in Mr. Sama’s list. If you see a man who needs a door opened, do open it.
Call, don’t text any important information.
We have lost a lot of contact in todays age of technology. Weather it’s a call to your man, family, friends… It’s just better to call so you have the contact, and you will both feel more connected then you would by a text.
Don’t make exceptions from stereotypes.
Every guy is different. Every situation is different. Don’t assume you know who or what a guys is all about until you actually know him. You don’t have to date them. Just give them the courtesy of an open mind.
Respect all guys like you would your father/brother [or any other man you truly respect]
If everyone could relate strangers to their loved ones; Elderly to grandparents, men to fathers/brothers, or any other stranger that resembles someone we love, then at least half of our population would be more Chivalrous without even trying. (Same for men here… respect women as you would your mother/sister/grandmother/etc.)
Protect the guys!
If a man is a true man, he will always fallow the rule, “Never hit a woman.” Believe it or not this leave him open and somewhat vulnerable to women who attack him. Physically, verbally, mentally, etc. If you have any respect for a good guy, stand up for him here. The only one who could defend him against a crazy woman is another woman.
And most importantly:
Don’t be overly offended or flattered if a man is being Chalvery to you.
For all those feminists: Just because he gives you his set or opens a door, it doesn’t mean he sees you as weak… In fact, it’s usually the opposite. He recognizes you as a strong and able woman, and is trying to show you the respect you deserve… stop biting his head off, You’re making it harder for women like me to find good guys.
For all of those skeptics to flirting: the majority of guys don’t usually think; “I’m getting a date tonight” when they open a door for you or gives up his seat… he’s being just nice. If you guys want to flirt it out past that, be my guest.
Remember, just like Mr. Sama’s list, these qualities can be transitioned to men too.
Anyone else have anything?
guess im lucky, my SO and I have been together 8 years. He did these things before, and he still does them.
Looking forward to finding my Mr. Right who will do these types of things and be appreciated for it.
Regardless of whether you are male or female, common courtesy needs to take the forefront in our society. As a 40 something woman, I have given up my seat for others, and have had seats vacated for me. I have had doors opened for me, and I have opened many doors for others. If you’d like it done for you, do it for others first.
In regards to being in a relationship with someone, I agree with the author on this one, but not so that the man can be “manly” or the woman can be “feminine”. As a very happily married woman (19.5 years and counting), I love when my husband treats me like he treasures me. By dropping me at the door, or walking between me and the street, or giving me his seat, he’s telling me that he loves me, that he treasures me and that my comfort and safety are foremost on his mind. That’s not sexist, that’s trustworthy love. I treat him with respect in my words and by providing him with a refuge (our home) to come home to every day. We have had very traditional roles (our mutual choice) for many years with him working full-time and me working full-time as wife/mom. I recently returned to the world of paid employment, and because we care deeply for one another, our roles are changing and adjusting on an almost daily basis. He’s learning to do laundry, pitch in with the managing the kid’s schedules,and I still do the cooking (because we all like eating). 🙂
Really, I think the main point of this post is that we need to have less of self and greater awareness and care for the others around us. If we can ALL do that, then our world will be a more joyful and pleasant place to be.
1. They’re fat.
2. They’re constantly glued to their phone.
3. They cut their hair short.
4. They’re more impressed by a crappy DJ than a doctor who saves lives.
5. They think being funny and witty is a quality that men love.
6. They listen to magazines like Cosmo when it comes to pleasing men.
7. They don’t know how to cook.
8. They wear flip-flops even when they’re not at the beach, pool, or in their house.
9. They have condoms in their drawers because they expect to have random sex with strange men.
10. They cannot dance. They also do not know how to sing or play basic musical instruments.
11. They idolize drug addicted celebrities, mimicking their brain-dead behaviors.
12. They acquire pets instead of putting effort into landing a quality man.
13. They don’t know how to be sexy.
14. They have standards way beyond their level of attractiveness.
15. They think having a good job means they’re a good catch.
16. They wear pajamas in public.
17. They like Twilight and The Secret.
18. Their idea of travel is going to the beach or France.
19. They have too many trashy tattoos.
20. They are proud to date multiple guys at the same time, as if they were men.
21. They are not close to their family, and would rather die than take care of aging parents.
22. They say filthy things in bed when you hardly know them.
23. They cockblock regularly.
24. They make lame excuses for not putting effort into their appearance.
25. They obsess about the environment above what is reasonable, even though they pollute more than 90% of people in the world.
26. They always lie by saying, “I’ve never done this before.”
27. They confuse being a challenge with being whiny and annoying.
28. They are acne prone.
29. They watch way too much TV.
30. On their way home from work, they put on dirty sneakers that don’t match their outfit.
31. They only dress up for special occasions, like a friend’s birthday, Presidential inauguration, or a Sex and the City movie premiere.
32. They like to age their skin prematurely through frequent tanning.
33. They insist on eating pizza or otherwise fattening food after a night of binge drinking.
34. They’re obsessed with cupcakes.
35. They care more about maintaining their career than a good home.
36. They rarely wear high heels.
37. They think dining out and eating food slathered with butter and salt makes them cultured.
38. They don’t speak a foreign language.
39. They are uncomfortable in their own skin.
40. They like Ikea furniture.
41. They have the intellectual curiosity of a dung beetle.
42. They go on and on about the stupidest shit.
Wow…
That list….what IS that?
If this is your ‘list’ of your version an average women (I can only guess this as you’ve not qualified the purpose of the list), either you have a very small, horrid sample of the female population to base your perceptions; or I’m just a ‘rare breed’. As much as I love being unique, I’d hate to think that list represents a ‘majority’ of females… and besides, what does the length of a woman’s hair have to do with treating us with respect? Basically, I see this ‘chivalry’ article as more of a ‘common courtesy’ you should show to anyone; man, woman, child, transsexual… whatever. Regardless of all that, your ‘list’ has some serious paradoxes and double standards. For example, do YOU speak a foreign language? Do YOU make excuses for not keeping up your appearance? Obviously, you already go “on and on about the stupidest shit” so I don’t even need to ask about that one. Are you acne prone? Did you know supermodels and actors/actresses can ALSO be acne prone? Why should females focus on “landing quality men”? I’ve seen more Ikea furniture in male bachelor pads and dorm rooms than anywhere else. And women are not allowed to wear comfortable shoes on their way home from work because they clash with their outfit or insult your particular version of fashion sense, sounds like a personal problem to me. This weekend I’ll be reveling in being myself (and knowing that my existence must just irritate you to no end): wearing my pajamas in public – with flip flops, after driving my loving husband wild (maybe even with some filthy dirty talk) I’ll grab that condom from my bedside drawer to get busy with him, maybe go get another ‘trashy tattoo’ to honor the upcoming birthday of my late mother, and reminisce about my previous travels to England, Cancun, Prague, Canada, St. Marteen, all while listening to Twilight on audio book while “maintaining my home”. I’ll even open doors for strangers, walk streetside when out with my children, and compliment my entire family and maybe even some strangers if I see something worthy of compliment.
1. They’re fat: This is an exclusively female problem. We’ll get on that right away.
2. They’re constantly glued to their phone: Men don’t do this either.
3. They cut their hair short: Some women look quite lovely with short hair (according to dudes even). Also, it’s their hair.
4. They’re more impressed by a crappy DJ than a doctor who saves lives: Please tell me you are a doctor who saves lots and lots of lives, otherwise I am going to quit the internet. Or maybe just go back to my hospital job.
5. They think being funny and witty is a quality that men love: Women, brush up on your dumb and stupid skills. Men find this attractive.
6. They listen to magazines like Cosmo when it comes to pleasing men: It’s better advice than this list.
7. They don’t know how to cook: Please tell me your risotto is creamier than mine.
8. They wear flip-flops even when they’re not at the beach, pool, or in their house: We will all go barefoot from here on out.
9. They have condoms in their drawers because they expect to have random sex with strange men: This from personal experience, I assume. Which suggests you are having random sex with lots of strange women.
10. They cannot dance. They also do not know how to sing or play basic musical instruments: I am a woman with 15 years of classical ballet training, 2 college degrees in music performance. I regularly play multiple instruments. You had better be some combination of Baryshnikov and Yo-Yo Ma.
11. They idolize drug addicted celebrities, mimicking their brain-dead behaviors: Men never do this either.
12. They acquire pets instead of putting effort into landing a quality man: I forgot my greatest goal in life was landing a quality man. I am sorry and will never do it again.
13. They don’t know how to be sexy: Oops, I just forgot that being sexy is my other greatest goal in life.
14. They have standards way beyond their level of attractiveness: So ugly women deserve to be beaten regularly by shmucks. Good to know.
15. They think having a good job means they’re a good catch: I will immediately quit my job in order to achieve the aforementioned greatest goals in life. (See # 12)
16. They wear pajamas in public: See flip-flop comment. Nudity for all!
17. They like Twilight and The Secret: I suspect most Twilight fans read more than you do.
18. Their idea of travel is going to the beach or France: I assumed that a transatlantic flight to explore a beautiful culture that has influenced language, literature, art, and cuisine was travel. Sorry. I’ll go to Walmart next time.
19. They have too many trashy tattoos: Men never do this either.
20. They are proud to date multiple guys at the same time, as if they were men: For those of you looking for a concrete example of the double standard, this is it, ladies and gentlemen.
21. They are not close to their family, and would rather die than take care of aging parents: Yes, spending hours helping my mother make my little sister’s birthday cake beautiful was a demonstration of my utter scorn for my family.
22. They say filthy things in bed when you hardly know them: What are you doing in bed with women you hardly know? (See # 9)
23. They cockblock regularly: I wonder why.
24. They make lame excuses for not putting effort into their appearance: Do you wear makeup every day? Good, because I don’t either.
25. They obsess about the environment above what is reasonable, even though they pollute more than 90% of people in the world: I promise to cease and desist my recycling immediately in an effort to be more reasonable.
26. They always lie by saying, “I’ve never done this before.” Yes. Every sentence begins with this statement.
27. They confuse being a challenge with being whiny and annoying: I don’t know how many 2-year olds you have taken care of, but whiny and annoying is a challenge.
28. They are acne prone: I will have the skin on my face removed immediately so it no longer offends you.
29. They watch way too much TV: Men don’t ever do this either.
30. On their way home from work, they put on dirty sneakers that don’t match their outfit: I’ll wear cross-country skis next time.
31. They only dress up for special occasions, like a friend’s birthday, Presidential inauguration, or a Sex and the City movie premiere: Formal gowns on all Tuesday nights! Please remember, black tie attire required for gentlemen. (Also, are your examples in ascending order of importance?)
32. They like to age their skin prematurely through frequent tanning: I actually agree that this is a silly and unhealthy practice, although I am not sure what it has to do with you.
33. They insist on eating pizza or otherwise fattening food after a night of binge drinking: Men don’t drink or eat pizza, and women shouldn’t either.
34. They’re obsessed with cupcakes: A fatal flaw that explains all of the suffering of humanity.
35. They care more about maintaining their career than a good home: I’m sure you maintain your home better than your career.
36. They rarely wear high heels: But what if the man who is my supreme goal in life is short and won’t let me wear them?
37. They think dining out and eating food slathered with butter and salt makes them cultured: BUTTER IS A GIFT TO MANKIND. Don’t insult butter.
38. They don’t speak a foreign language: Che tristezza.
39. They are uncomfortable in their own skin: I don’t have to add anything to this. The irony is already unspeakably funny.
40. They like Ikea furniture: Let’s go French antiques from now on. You are paying for this, right?
41. They have the intellectual curiosity of a dung beetle: You are right. No woman ever discovered anything. Marie Curie was actually a man.
42. They go on and on about the stupidest shit: See #39.
I can’t decide which is my favorite retort. I’m happy your restraint faltered.
Hehe. Thank you so much for this. I would like to point out the irony of the fact that I am fluent in both Arabic and French.
One of the reasons I’m fluent in French is because of my numerous lengthy trips to France, plus my four year stint as a French teacher. Not only that, but I can talk about numerous
The reason I’m fluent in Arabic is because I spent four years in the military, which probably automatically makes me more of a man than this jerk.
Also, acne prone? It’s called female hormones. They’re tricky. It’s sort of what makes us, you know, women. If you don’t like women, then maybe you should be dating men?
As for rarely wearing high heels, I’m guilty as charged. As a teenager I read a statistic that 95% of all foot surgeries are performed on women. Right then and there I made a vow to only wear comfortable shoes that fit well, and to save high heels for special occasions. I’m in my thirties and my feet look WAY better than my friends’ who have hammer toes, bunions etc. However, t’s my own little thing. I don’t criticize or care if other women do it though. My sister, whom I adore, is a regular heels wearer,and I love her anyway haha.
I would also like the original writer of the list(the troll in question) to know that I’m gorgeous, 5’8″, thin and fit, and have waist length blonde hair (though this is InternetLand so we’ll never know if I’m telling the truth). I’m very confident and relaxed and a great conversationalist.
I regularly cock block, in order to keep my friends from dating guys like the troll. In reading through the list, I find it hard to know exactly what kind of woman the guy WOULD find attractive. Too many contradictions.
Had a weird experience last week, stopping in the vestibule of an apartment building to bundle up against the freeze outside.
Before I realize what’s happening, a guy standing there has opened the the door and is ushering me out.
And there I am in the freezing wind, sleet beginning to come down, coat still unbuttoned, scarf blowing off, gloves still in pockets, hat still in backpack, but hey at least a guy held the door for me.
(I can’t shake the suspicion that back there in the vestibule he was cursing me out for making opening the door HIS job.)
I do these pretty much all of these things but i find myself getting comfortable at times and I don’t do it as much. Just had a conversation with her tonight about this article and she pointed that fact out to me. All this means is that I need to refocus on doing these things every time.
So happy I stumbled upon your Blog. I live in a house with 6 men… my Father, my Husband and our 4 Boys. I think it is so very important that men have manners, pride and confidence. When you show these 3 attributes, in my opinion, you are remembered well. I will keep teaching my growing Boys these 3 things. I am so lucky to have married a wonderful man that treats me the way a woman should be treated by a man. 😉
This blog and website are absolutely fucking stupid. Just sheep following this herder James . You wanna learn how to be a man and be chivalrous? Figure it out for yourself and quit following other peoples foot steps! You don’t need some stupid blogger telling you what chivalrous acts that should be ‘brought’ back. Just go out and be it! And stop putting these fucking bloggers on a pedestal like they’re know-it-alls!! Blogging is a fake and irresponsible way of making any living, you weasel your way into throwing a veil over readers eyes and make them believe you know what your talking about but all you are is a pethetic piece of flesh and blood meddling your way through life on the backs of your cult-turned readers. Fuck you James
Hi Gertrud,
Thanks for your well thought out, intelligently worded comment. I appreciate that you’ve taken your time to read my writing and comment on it!
I’m not sure what “living” you’re referring to, but as you can see there are no ads on this blog and I don’t make any money from it. I’m simply someone who is sharing my opinion with the world, as you or anyone else has the freedom to do as well.
Again, I appreciate your feedback, and hope you have a profoundly spectacular day, keep up your positive attitude.
– James
James, James, James, James, James–you don’t have to earn a penny off this blog, or any of the other blogs you have. They are all “platforms” to publicize how popular you are so people will buy your book; hire you to act, give speeches and model; and help you become that “future TV host”–and god only knows what else you’re trying to sell.
[…] 8 Acts Of Chivalry To Bring Back. […]
I LOVE this — Thanks so much for putting it out for both men and women to hear!!! Gotta say that the movement of the 70’s puts some of the blame on women who tried to equate chivalry to chauvinism, so I don’t get too upset with men who haven’t learned. BUT, when men actually take the time to make these gestures, I make sure that I thank them for it and tell them how much it means. Kindness and respect go both ways! 🙂
With all due respect, I find the concept of chivalry rather demeaning. I don’t want special treatment because of my gender; I want to be treated as an equal regardless of it.
Holding the door open for for me because I am hauling an armful of boxes into a new apartment? Okay. That’s called being a nice person.
Holding the door open for me just because I have breasts? Not cool. Being of the female persuasion does not make me brain-dead.
Word of advice to any guys reading this article: if you wouldn’t do any of the actions listed for a random man, then don’t bother doing them for a random woman.
Hi Holly, in regards to your other comment on this blog, perhaps you missed the part(s) of where my article(s) where I say that it’s ridiculous to assume that women cannot do these things and that we do them out of love and respect, not out of necessity.
Thank you for taking the time to reply. However, I still stand firmly by my previous comment. Just because you and other men intend to show respect through actions such as these doesn’t mean that all women see them this way. Personally, I’d rather be shown respect depending on my merit as a human being, not simply because of being a woman.
I respect people as humans, I show no man or woman more or less respect because of their gender, it’s just shown in different ways, is it not?
Things women do for men to show them respect are not (always) the same things as they do for other women. I’ve written multiple articles on feminism and equality and I am the last person to consider a woman a “delicate little flower.”
Perhaps politeness has gone out the window because of the lack of appreciation for small acts such as outlined in this article, and it certainly wanes due to actual outlash against them.
If I were to see you approaching a door behind me, I would hold it for you. Not because you are a lady, but because I am a gentleman.
In all honesty, I can’t say that it is that different. I hold the door open for anyone, I’d insist on at least trading off on covering meal tabs for dates, and I’d recommend walking a little farther away from the edge of the sidewalk if trash and/or rain puddles are a serious problem instead of making any guy taking the brunt of the messes that passing cars can dish out. 😉
That being said, I also don’t take issue if no one pulls out chairs for me or gives up their bus seats for me. I admittedly find the prospect of the prior to be silly, and seeing as I’m not a little old lady, if someone gets to a seat before I do, they have first dibs. Maybe some methods of showing politeness have faded away, but maybe some have simply done so out of practicality. It’s not the end of the world; we can just find other ways to be kind to people.
Perhaps you might want to re-read what Holly wrote. Or maybe this really all about loving and respecting breasts?
I’m close to agreeing with you Holly- the idea of a man pulling a chair out for me… I think would actually be a turn off and a bit creepy. Also- being dropped off at the door while we find parking would probably bother me… what am I supposed to do, just stand there alone for who knows how long. No thank you. As for the giving up a seat- that should be for the elderly or maybe a pregnant women or person who has a baby, but not just because there is a young healthy woman. As for the door holding- who ever gets the door first should hold it open for the next person and so forth down the line till everyone is in- regardless of gender. Ultimately there is general kindness as you point out– which is appreciated, but nothing should be because of gender specifically.
My thoughts exactly, teachingbeyondthestandard. Kindness already has a name. Why dress it up in archaic mindsets such as chivalry?
Those things listed:
Aside from the bus/subway seat (I usually stand anyways), I do those acts because that’s just how I was raised and I will pass that along to my children as well. I do that for not just women but for everyone. If someone is doing it for you, take it as a compliment and that they’re being nice and assume they would do it for anyone. If someone does it for me (regardless if it’s a woman or man), I would appreciate it and it would encourage me to pass those mannerisms forward to someone else.
In other words, look at it as a positive instead of a negative.
I find it curious how people can be insulted and put off by just about anything. Personally, I choose to be put off when someone is mean or hurtful, not when they try to be helpful or considerate.
Personally, I prefer to be around people do nice things for each other regardless of intentions. After all, it’s not their intentions that affect me, only what they actually do.
The funny thing about this post and it’s replies is that everyone’s assuming that this is dating advice. It’s “8 Acts Of Chivalry” not “8 ways to get a date.” My dad lets me walk before him in line… my brother does more then half of these acts, and that has effected me in the actions I do as well as in the kind of man I look for. I would give up my seat for the elderly or disabled… I hold doors open for guys. And It’s not because I’m expecting anything in return, or I’m looking for a date, it’s simply because it’s nice to. It’s, dare I say, Chivalrous.
So, if you want to be a better man or woman, think this stuff over. They are, first and foremost, classic nuggets of honorable etiquette; then they can be used as a dating technique.
Thank you for being the voice of reason Cassie!
I loved your relpy, that you would continue to do these things not because she is a lady, but because you are a gentleman. I think that fact was lost on her. But that is the heart of it. Stay a gentleman because you will be remembered for having CLASS. Not every man is a gentleman and most certainly every woman is not a lady.
Thank you for your great response, Cassie P.! It’s not a show of weakness, it’s a show of respect which most likely was taught as he/she grew up in the home environment or by someone who knew what respect was and kindly passed it on. It works both ways, but sadly, it seems that decent etiquette has just about disappeared from the teachings within the home these days. Seems that girls are being brought up more like rowdy boys with the idea that respect isn’t necessary in today’s society, by either gender. How sad that chivalry has taken a back seat to a lack of good manners, lack of respect for each other and an “I couldn’t care less attitude” our youth presents as if it’s the normal way to act, not only to their peers, but to their families and society as well. I commend the men who act upon these 8 guidelines of Chivalry. I can only hope that the women who come along in your lives are grown up emotionally and appreciate your attention and returns a kind and likewise response to you.
Reblogged this on ISwearInItalian.
wow, so great
My father taught me by example, and as a woman, I follow that example when it makes sense. For example, walking down the sidwalk, if I am with someone older or younger or someone infirm, I walk on the outside. And I open doors for everyone.
I understand why many men think girls actually don’t like this and like jerks instead, because it has happened to me, but it is a misinterpretation of what is going on.
I think women prefer confidence in a man over chivalry (if they had to chose between on of them they would choose that). A woman may also care about looks too. The chivalry stuff is just a bonus, but many unconfident and unattractive men adopt chivalry as a “magic recipe” to getting laid. Of course women dont chose based on chivalry alone. You must still flirt with the women and not screw up by creating awkward moments, and this is basically what “jerks” are good at. They simply know how to avoid creating awkward moments and this keeps the girls interested. In other words, the girl has to like you. Chivalry is just a bonus in a guy. Girls say they like it, and men interpret it as a means to an end.
I read the first few angry comments and felt slight understanding with them but saw massive flaws in the logic. Then I read Bobby’s post, spot on! honestly. I love chivalry, and I try to treat my girlfriend with it as much as possible, sweep her off her feet. Yeah there are a few girls out there that like boys that treat them badly for strange reasons. but they’re not men and women, they’re girls and boys no matter how old they are. The only thing I’d disagree with in Bobby’s post is awkward moments, because I love the awkward moments, and it’s got me some of the best memories. But I understand what he means. biggest thing is women naturally love to feel protected and looked after, that’s where chivalry shines, not in some creepy one off gesture in hope of procurement of a night of passion. Happiness is loving someone and them loving you back, one off gestures aren’t enough, it’s a life time of respect for women. No one gets it right and I understand the frustration of men trying to show his respect and some plonker treating her like crap gets her, but she obviously wasn’t for you if she’s into that.
Chivalry is dead because you don’t get to ask for equal treatment, then special treatment at the same time. It’s inconsistent.
Also chivalry doesn’t work for men, you can save time effort and money by skipping the chivalry, and displaying the traits that women actually desire such as confidence.
[…] my opinion. A fellow blogger (Dean Richards) wrote a piece about the lost art of chivalry, based on an article published by James Sama, both here on WordPress. I read Dean Richards’ article first and then the […]
[…] READ FULL STORY HERE […]
This article is a waste of time, produce something of importance! Hey, guess what women are my equals and I will treat them as such. I pay my bus tickets like everyone else and if I got to the bus stop earlier, I am gunna sit down. (exception: the elderly) also some people take offence when you offer them your seat on the bus, its happened to me more than once! Women are fully capable of opening their own door! I do agree with the cell phone stuff though.
Reblogged this on Hamish Ross..
I have taught my son’s this… I remember one asking me when he was younger…(7 years old) But what if I am a bad guy? (you know like a rough rider or something of that nature) My answer was quick and simple. “Then you still hold the door open for her.” His reply? ” Oh man!” 😉
It’s very difficult to teach your sons to be gentlemen when the world is working so hard to emasculate them. Many women do want a gentleman, but they don’t want to be a lady and they get mad when gender differences are pointed out. I’m fine with gender roles and I do teach my sons to open doors, stand when a lady comes to the table and to ALWAYS bring flowers on a first date. Unfortunately, they’ll run into some feminazis along the way who will make them question this upbringing. I think women need to stop being so afraid to be feminine and start acting and dressing like ladies. This country has become far too informal and androgynous.
Flowers on the first date are gonna get your poor kid blown out of the water. Been there done that. Less is more.
That’s just sad. I’ll hope that they seek out young ladies who appreciate the gesture. I know I did.
I think that men are completely confused as to what women want. One perfect example would be this message board. If one were to observe the comments coming from the ladies as to what they would rather from a gentleman one would soon realise that the ladies hold diverse opinions as to what they expect from a gentleman. You have those who agree with what the article is advocating…..there are those who completely disagree…..and there are those who have taken a position somewhere in the middle. This is confusing as the gentleman would never know which type of lady he will come in contact with.
So….as a result we see gentlemen approaching this in different ways….you have the gentleman who is going to always be kind and mannerly and basically represents the above list inspite of how the lady responds to his chivalry. You then have the type that are only chivalrous to ladies they know. Then there are t gentleman that keeps things simple and treat everyone the same depending n how he feels on a particular day. Then of course those who do not give a damn and also prefer simplicity.
The real question is whether or not this is topic that can ever truly be determined or just an interesting talking point.
Oh, Eric! You left out the ideal–the gentleman who keeps things simple and treats everyone the same REGARDLESS of how he feels on a particular day.
That should probably be the ideal woman, too.
jdavidson..you are correct in that you have included a noteworthy category which i failed to mention. I don’t, however, believe that it represents an ideal, as a portion of the recipients that fall subject to this ‘uniformed’ brand of treatment may have a problem with it and once this portion exists….we can never have an ideal situation.
Again….I do not believe that this is one that can be concluded with any ideal approach as the opinions of the ladies are so diverse. Maybe those GOOGLE GLASSES may come in handy as it may, at some point, offer information about someone’s profile before any form of contact is made.
[…] about men putting more effort into relationships, and being more romantic (for example, the 8 Acts Of Chivalry To Bring Back), I often receive questions from women about what they can do to be chivalrous or romantic as […]
There’s no such thing as “what women like.” The category “women” is composed of lots and lots of very different people with very different preferences. One great way to show respect to someone, male or female, is to find out what they actually like, and do it. Respect is not a list of 8 behaviors or a list of 1,000 behaviors. Respect is an attitude of caring about other people’s experience. The behaviors that arise from that attitude will depend on your knowledge of the actual experiences of the actual people around you.
Relationships and dating aside alot of the confusion occurs when it has to do with encounters whereby the gentleman does not know the lady and is unable to take the time to get to know her….then what..
I’ve been married to my wife 15 years, it’ll be 16 years next month and I still do all of the above and more. Not once has she complained about it (in our 18year relationship) but I see other women giving the evil eye to their husbands or boyfriends when they see me do any of the above.
As to some of the comments above, when I was dating I was looking for someone that I would eventually spend my life with. Someone who appreciated my willingness to love her sacrificially, while knowing that my actions didn’t in anyway meant she was weaker, but rather that she was loved. As a husband I am called to lead, it is a partnership, but someone has to helm the ship. I don’t mean that I lead our household in a tyrannical way, but sometimes the best way to lead is to humble oneself and serve the needs of those whom we’ve been entrusted with first.
Regarding walking on the street side of the sidewalk, apart from the explanations above, in some countries prostitutes are walked by their pimps on the street side of the road as to be visible to potential customers driving by.
My 2¢
The simple reality is that in 2014 — women rightfully assume that the men who do the ‘8 chivalrous acts’ almost always have an ulterior motive. The guys who are doing these things are typically demonstrating their ‘low value’ and trying to recreate some sort of Hollywood romcom where the nice guy ends up with the girl.
The men who don’t do these things rightfully assume that your average 20-30 year old female in 2014 isn’t the same 20-30 year old female that existed in 1974 and are wise to do things to demonstrate high-value instead.
This article attempts to claim chivalry needs to be brought back when in reality — it never left. I see low value men performing chivalrous acts for women and getting nowhere with them ALL THE TIME.
Most of these are common-sense things to do – opening doors, pulling out chairs. But giving up a subway seat to someone just because they’re a woman seems antiquated and backwards. It suggests that women are too weak to stand up and must constantly sit. Unless they’re pregnant or elderly, they’ll have to stand!
Add this to your last one, Parking Far Away. (I actually follow all your suggestions here, always have). But when a woman is meeting me in her own vehicle, I always try to be there first so when she arrives, I can meet her out front of our destination, let her go into the establishment and then I park her car for her. Part of the fun is coming back to the bar or restaurant where she is already seated with a drink and watch the reactions of the other men as she plants one on me when I show up!
[…] Get your opinions straight! […]
As a woman I love a bit of chivalry. Just yesterday an elderly gentleman stepped to one side to let me pass through a door and said ‘always a pleasure to make way for a lovely lady’. That put a huge smile on my face as I thanked him.
I often give up my seat for elderly people, pregnant women or for anyone who looks like they need it more than I do at the time. I will open doors, pick up dropped items, help people reach something on a high shelf, give a random compliment and so on. No-one seems to mind me doing this, but is it because I am a woman?
I feel that many men are put off from being chivalrous because many of the ‘ladies’ do not appreciate the chivalry, or regard it as paternalistic behavior, or even feel a bit threatened by it for some reason. There is no easy solution, but I would suggest that the men who behave in a chivalrous manner will eventually meet the women that appreciate them.
Sue, serious question here: what would your reaction have been if the gentleman had been your own age?
Good question. I didn’t feel in any way threatened by the lovely gentleman because he had a good 15 years on me, but would I have felt the same if it had been someone 50ish like me? I think so. I have had a 25ish man offer me a seat on a train because I was weighed down with backpack etc and gratefully accepted, I had a man my own age help me with a suitcase up some stairs – both in the last 2 weeks. I can completely understand that if you offer chivalrous behavior and it is rejected it is going to make you think twice about trying it again. For that reason I will never, ever reject or be offended by someone being kind to me, and after all isn’t chivalry just another word for kindness and consideration of another person’s comfort? It shouldn’t matter whether it is a man or a woman being kind and considerate and if kindness is offered it should be taken with respect.
I think I should have been more specific–how would you have felt if the old gentleman’s COMMENT had come from a man your own age? I think I’d have been charmed by the older man, but creeped out by the younger, as though he didn’t know how to behave in public. But yes, I think we all should be glad to receive help and happy to give it, without regard to gender.
Wow… as a woman i want none of these things… I don’t see them as any kind of weakness, but they make me feel like i am less of a person because i am a woman. I feel these kinds of acts perpetuate ideas that women are weaker, that they need to be protected, and ultimately that they are incapable of doing things in the same way as a man. It is 2014, I am quite capable of standing on my own two feet on the bus, give up your seat for the elderly, or pregnant, but if you offer it to me – i wouldn’t take it. Try to drop me off at the door, don’t you want to spend the extra time with the person, instead of waiting? as for opening doors or pulling out chairs, i’m not an invalid… walking on the right side of the street – i wouldn’t even notice.
As for the rest well compliments can just be an act of kindness, especially if they do not relate to a women’s appearance… Calling instead of texting, totally personal preference – not even on the radar of concern.
I Think there are all kinds of people in this world and surely there are women out there who do want this kind of thing – but for a strong minded fiercely independent woman i am NOT one of them. These kinds of acts do perpetuate inequality between the sexes of the kind that i have hard to fight against my whole life.
I for one – want this kind of ‘chivalry’ to stay dead.
Hi there,
This raises an interesting question for me – what are the small things that your boyfriend/husband does to let you know he cares, if not what is described in this article?
Looking forward to your response.
– JMS
The most important thing for me in any relationship is equality. I don’t want anything from a partner that I wouldn’t also give. A hidden love note to be found later for example. I tend to prefer gestures that exemplify how the relationship is unique. Stuff that doesn’t usually make sense to other people – the most random example of this was cutting toe nails- which sounds weird but in the context surrounding it, it was sweet and funny.
To me it’s more important that a person gets to know me – then they will probably find it easy to think of things to show they care. In the same way that I try to show this back. These gestures shouldn’t replace things I can do for myself – or even things I want done, they should be an entirely indulgent thing that I might not have even thought of.
Oh shush. You’re ruining it for women like me who actually want a guy to treat me like more than just another one of his buddies. I’m with Blanche from the Golden Girls “Honey, I don’t want to be treated like your equal–I want to be treated better!”
Chivalry isn’t about calling you helpless, it’s about showing you that you’re worth the extra effort. The notable exception, walking you to your door. I’m sorry, feminism aside, a 5’2” girl is not as physically capable as a 6 ft man. No offense. So, uh, if a guy wants to help me stay safe in a rough neighborhood, I’m going to let him.
Reblogged this on Single Girls Guide to the Streets of Houston! and commented:
This guy has it all right!
This post was FANTASTIC – and I shared it on my facebook page for Manlihood.com
OMG I hate Chivalry soo much .. It’s such a wrong concept. It’s a set of rules or guidelines on how you should treat one another… There is no way to be genuine with this. Isn’t it wrong that you have to treat someone a specific way just because of their gender? Be yourself and act from the heart. That shows your truth, and if it leads you to do these things then fine. But don’t do them because you think it’s right or proper do it because your inspired or because you care!
Reblogged this on Super Hero in Training and commented:
I like these.
I’ve come to the conclusion that when a women responds different toward a gentleman, doing whatever he’s doing, it’s because she doesn’t know what’s going on at the time or she wasn’t taught how to respond. I had to retrain my son in chivalry because he noticed that most of the women walked on the outside of the street and the men walked inside, contrary to what I taught him….and I explained why he’s to walk outside. It’s not done for macho reasons….just love, caring for and respect of. If she cannot get that, then she’s not the one to be with because you’ll always have a problem figuring out why she doesn’t appreciate what you’re doing for her.
Actually, the history of walking on the side furthest from the building dates back to before cars splashing people. It goes along with why men wore top hats and long capes. When walking on the street the building side of the side walk was normally under an awning of some kinds because the chamber pots from the floors above would be emptied out onto the street. Walking in this pattern kept the ladies covered by the buildings and the men covered themselves with the hats and cloaks to prevent being messed up as much by what was being dumped.
I do many of these things. I am often confronted by women with the “I don’t need you to do that for me” or some other version of the words… as if by holding a door open I’m insulting their “humanity.” Treating them as a “weaker” gender… Even happened at my prom.
It stopped me from doing it for a while, but I started up again on my own. Why? Because it’s polite!
This got me thinking about other aspects of chivalry I’d like to bring back, like “Thou shalt make war against the Infidel without cessation, and without mercy.” Oh, wait, we’re already working on that one. Nevermind. What about, “Thou shalt believe all that the Church teaches, and shalt observe all its directions”? I’m not sure which “church” to pick, but I assume that the “Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster” is acceptable. Definitely this one: “Thou shalt perform scrupulously thy feudal duties, if they be not contrary to the laws of God.” I *am* scrupulous about my feudal duties, as we should all be, given that the Lord of our Feif is he whom God has chosen to have dominion over us.
I mean, these are from the *actual* chivalric code, not just some made-up version based on politeness, so they’re even better. (There were no car doors for heraldic knights to open, right?) I feel like “New Chivalry” is missing a lot of the elements that made “Old Chivalry” great, like “not recoil[ing] before thine enemy.”
If performing feudal duties seems outdated, then maybe we should be questioning all “rules” for behavior that are based on assumptions about what people “want” or what people “should do.” Maybe we should all open all the doors, for everyone. No one should ever sit down if someone else has to stand. People (men and women) should always pull out one another’s chairs. Just do everything for everyone, and assume that all the people around you are incompetent to do anything for themselves. Like pull out their own chairs. The person who paid the least for their clothes should walk on the outside (because it’s all about perceived value). Ladies, if your man is wearing heels, you drop him off first. And lesbians… one of you is going to have to wear flats, otherwise you’ll have to drive around the block until you find a near-by parking space.
James, we Southern men tend to still do these things.
Excellent post. Great summary with a lighthearted commentary. I’m going to add my own two cents: Walking a woman street-side is actually the reverse of what had been chivalrous in centuries past. Explore the term “GARDYLOO” a bit. The gentleman would walk directly under the street-facing windows in order to spare the woman an unpleasant dousing. People living above would call out “GARDYLOO!” to warn those below, but, being a gentleman, custom called for playing it safe. The modern incarnation MIGHT call for the gentleman to walk street-side, but tradition is tradition.
Love this!
As a girl in today’s dating world, I can’t tell you how much these little details are appreciated. Sure, there’s that random handful of gals who will go “I can open my doors myself!” but the vast majority of us want these little reminders that we’re appreciated. So, boys, listen up 🙂
This list is absolutely perfect, except its missing one… 9. Walking to the door to get her. It’s a very rare occasion but it shows you respect her and are willing to park your car and get out and take time for her. Honking is just rude and a text that says I’m here is just pointless, you’d be at the door by the time she gets the text..?
Please……..When I was growing up, if you showed ANY signs of gentlemanly behavior, the women were “appalled”…..It was chauvinistic…..we were “PIGS” of the highest order…so we, as good little minions,….Stopped.
Then we grew to not bother at all in even THINKING women were different or special in any way….AS REQUESTED, by the way…. and now you have the “men” you asked for all those years ago….NOOOW, you want both?
Now, why am I not surprised?
Good luck by the way…The cat is out of the bag now ladies (excuse ME) Women. We know the secrets now. Open your own doors.
You are a fool that wants to rant. The women that want chivalry had no bearing on this bogus reaction and the women that wanted respect just wanted it because they had none. Get over yourself and take your misogyny home. I dare you to name one genuine example of a woman appalled because you were ever a gentleman….
Not sure what kind of women you were around growing up?????? A REAL Lady requires a man to be a gentleMAN. Sorry you had such a bad experience….promise you a Lady worth having will love you for being a gentlemen.
youre one of those attention vampires who are willing to write any stupid thought just to get noticed….
i think he has a point.. i do all of those examples and more. but i get his point. WLM made us to look like jerks for holding the door like they cant handle it..
Are you talking about the very early 1970s, when “women’s lib” was a big movement? That was … let’s see … 40 years ago? No one says “male chauvinist pig” any more. That really dates you. So all this time you’ve been harboring this anger toward women? I’d say it’s time to set down that burden, Sir. You’re not living up to the “Greatness” in your on-line handle.
I am a woman, and like my siblings, was taught to always be considerate of others, regardless of sex. I open doors for people, hold them for deliverymen, return men/women’s carts to the grocery store if I’m walking that way anyway, etc. I appreciate the good manners when someone opens/holds a door for me. I always say thank you.
Many younger men I encounter these days DO seem to have better manners than men my own age. I have a younger male friend who rises when I enter the room, which is exceptionally polite. My younger male co-workers routinely open the door for me and allow me to enter a room first. No, those things are not necessary to keep me happy, but I can’t tell you how much I appreciate the kindness and consideration it takes to make that effort! Gentlemen are ALWAYS appreciated. If you encounter someone who reacts in a strange way, well, I’d say they simply weren’t raised right.
Of course women want to be treated as equals, except when they don’t. If a woman is elderly or pregnant, than sure why not give up your seat, but tell me why just the simple fact that having a vagina means we should give up our seat for them? These women have done nothing special and will most will think that you are a fool if you do these things. When I’m dating a woman sure I ‘ll do these things for her, but the rest of them can carry on just like everyone else.
This article was written by a man, and while some women may want this type of behavior, I feel it should be behavior governed by consideration for everyone. In otherwords, a young woman should give up her seat on the bus or train to an older woman or man. Anyone seeing someone with there hands full should open a door for that person, etc. I don’t need someone opening a car door for me, but it can help someone more frail or who has problems with some of today’s heavy car doors. In other words, use common sense and a consideration of others, but don’t treat me differently just because I am a woman!
Wow, such a lonely, sad man….
Other peoples reactions DO NOT EXCUSE YOU from being a gentleman…SHOW YOUR GREATNESS John.
He’s write. My feminist girlfreind has a fit.
John this a perfect example of how you have diminished your own greatness. Greatest comes from empowering those around you which impacts them deeply, even with the smallest gestures. It leaves a memorable feeling of positivity in that person. Therefore, you will always be remembered for such elevated human qualities, which is an inherently trait of the way you were raised and the kind of relationship you had/have with your mother. I have an immense respect for men that behave as a gentleman, that he has set an example of way of being around him, which automatically brings the lady in me. I’m very appreciated of that admireable quality and breed of such men. Thank you James Michael Sama for this post and for starting this kind of movement. Man like you are invaluable in our society 🙂
You must’ve met girls and not women, LOL
Haha !!! I agree with you. Finally someone brave enough to say it out in the open. Give you a thumbs up !
What a terrible planet you grew up on- on earth- women do appreciate and love these little habits…
…then don’t take all day to put up your stupid make-up! hurry the f@#k up!
What a pitiful excuse for a “man” you are. IF you are lucky enough to end up with ANY female she will most definitely be one with zero self-esteem. Good luck in your pursuit.
GO BY YOURSELF gentle boner…Your name means “so itty bitty, you want even feel it” boner. HAHAHA!
Sorry not sorry she’s trying to look good for you shitty males.
I’m a British man and all the things on your I do as part of my regular day they say that chivalry is dead, but it’s down to upbringing my parents always respected eachother and showed it so we as children saw what it was to be respectable humans
I’m all about being a gentleman, but most women I’ve come across are weird about answering the phone when a guy calls. How can you ask someone out if they won’t let you? Women – please be honest with us! Don’t be afraid to hurt our feelings if you have to.
Very good advice. This is partly why I teach singles to “let your head lead your heart” when it comes to relationships. Use your brain!
Do not give your heart to anyone until your head has processed the necessary data to tell you that you are making a wise decision. If you give your heart to a bad relationship and I try to talk your head out of it, no matter how much I might make sense, I will not be heard when someone is listening with their heart.
Emotional love is a natural part of human attraction, but we must not allow it to lead to a delusional euphoric state of stupidity. No matter how good it feels, always be aware that it can produce a blinding effect that hinders rational and wise decision-making. http://thinkpoint.wordpress.com/2013/11/06/a-delusional-euphoric-state-of-stupidity/?relatedposts_exclude=12219
Reblogged this on Colleen Deputy and commented:
Thankfully, some of these acts are still in style. Lets bring back those that are not common in practice.
When I was growing up I was taught that these were the things real men do. Now I’m an old man who travels around the world a lot, and the one rule that I follow without exception is: Treat a lady like a lady, a whore like a whore, and everything else as they stand in between.
Women control the situation, if they want a gentleman all they have to do is accept nothing less. As for giving up your set for an elderly or female passenger, that can only be taught in the home.
Except when is it ever okay to treat a women “like a whore” because she chooses to express her sexuality? Last time I checked my sexuality was only one small part of who I am, and expressing that when I feel that I am comfortable and ready doesn’t make me less worthy of dignity and respect. How about we stop slut shaming and realize that people will not always share the same values or spiritual beliefs as you do? Real people (men and women) don’t call other people whores or shame them for being comfortable in their bodies.
Garvin, I must agree with you. “Treat a lady like a lady, a whore like a whore, and everything else as they stand in between.” I love this, I think you are spot on !! You made me giggle…
I do need a gentleman in public, I do want to be ravished in private 🙂
@Sarah
In part I do agree with what you had to say about the slut shaming issue. Women should enjoy sex as much as every man does (let’s not lie to ourselves sex is pretty awesome). However, how a person goes about acquiring their partner does change my perception of the person. I personally don’t believe that anyone should seek sexual relations with a complete stranger. While sexuality is a very small person of who you are, it speaks tons about your self-worth. I’ve found through personal experience, that most people who actively seek the one night fling with the guy/girl they meet at the bar, have extremely low self worth. They might be confident with their bodies to use them, but they don’t value their bodies enough to ensure that their sexual activities will be completely safe (even with condoms and birth control, you should always be sure that your partner is safe to be with). I don’t disrespect them because they are having sex, I pity them because they don’t value themselves.
The problem with most of these is that it is a two way street in terms of knowing what you are supposed to do to be both a gentleman and a lady. For example, most women have no clue about getting the seat that faces outward into a restaurant. At any given time they could chose any given seat and that leaves the man running around like an idiot, especially if she makes a production out of sitting down, and before long he’s been standing there 10 minutes and in the way of the servers. Most women also no longer know about who walks on what side on the sidewalk. Some of them seeming rather suspicious that you’re up to something because you are walking on that side. I could go on and on. If you want chivalry, you need ladies also.
AMEN!!! men need to be gentlemen but women should act like ladies
Yah I am gay. I do nothing special for women. Let’s be honest. Guys only give up their seat, help carry things, open doors pull out chairs, ect. To increase their chances of a girl liking them so they can get laid. (Go ahead try to deny it. I am gay, I am an expert on men because I date them and am one. Chivalry=attempt to get laid)
I am absolutely not giving up my seat for a woman unless she is old or noticeably pregnant. A woman is perfectly capable of standing without a seat, opening the door, ect.
That is precisely why you aren’t a man in this regard. You are the root of the issue with your thinking that to be kind to the opposite sex is to only be after one thing. Do not force your own personal shortcomings on those who far surpass you in terms of kindness, generosity, and thoughtfulness.
I totally back you up and respect you as a true gentleman on what you have to say here, KAI. This other person (Buddy?) sounds like a very self centered person, who, gay or not, has no respect for the opposite gender. That’s usually a tell tale sign of how he was growing up, possibly with little or no guidance on how to treat the opposite sex. Being chivalrous to a woman does not mean one is looking to be laid, it means that person has been taught manners and respect which usually start from a very young age. My eight year old grandson, on his own, has opened doors, pushed over on a seat to make room for whomever, offered a drink of juice to company etc. and I’m sure he’s not looking to be laid. And I’m sure as he grows older his good manners will follow along with him. The thoughtfulness/chivalry of a gentleman towards a female is a common courtesy and should come naturally without considering or expecting a “romp in the hay” as a payment or a thank you.
obviously gay or not you sir /mam are no man. Your distain for women is quite apparent as well. Its a sad state that you think you know all there is to know about men when you haven’t a clue how to act like one.
To be fair, there is for some men the element of seduction involved in chivalrous behavior. However, the most chivalrous man I ever met was gay. He opened doors, surrendered his seat, etc. not just when we were hanging out but to everyone. I asked him about it once and his reply was good manners are good manners and have nothing to do with sex.
I second Kai and Bernadine. Good manners have nothing to do with sex, there are a lot of people out there with different motives and not one man is the same as the other. Kindness, generosity, and thoughtfulness is actually a real thing still. Good thing too or the world would suck.
I agree while I do all this for my lady to constantly show my
Love… I also do it for people I have no interest in sexually. My favorite is when I’m in a tank top showing off all my tats and open a door for an elderly lady. The look on peoples faces is great.
Not a particularly nice attitude toward others, Nick. And what nonsense that “chivalry = attempt to get laid.” Perhaps that’s YOUR attitude, but I guarantee it’s not universal. When my husband holds the door for his mother or grandmother, let me assure you, he’s not trying to get “laid.” Also, I have four gay male cousins, all of whom have impeccable manners. They routinely do these chivalrous actions for others, so you certainly don’t speak for all gay men, either.
wow. a rude gay guy, honestly, you are in the minority , thank goodness.
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I was taught these basic things growing up, but do you know how often I get yelled at, criticized for and believe it or not cussed at by women for doing some of these basic curtsies. I’m sorry women are as much to blame for the death of Chivalry as any man is and as far as one commenters suggestion that Chivalry is a ‘straight’ thing I think that’s just wrong.
Even if “Chivalry=attempt to get laid” some of these things still apply. (The only one I might argue is the street side walking, granted in my partner and mine’s case I generally walk on the street side of him myself.)
Honestly, if you’re doing these things in an attempt to get laid then they aren’t really chivalrous. There are certainly people out there who just have impeccable manners and are genuinely chivalrous. Personally, as I woman, I appreciate men doing all these things, and I strive to do them myself as well. I don’t think that feminism should be the end of chivalry, but rather that men AND women, gay or straight, should strive to be chivalrous! The world would be a lovelier place if everyone took a little time to work on their manners.
I appreciate what you’ve said here. Let’s be honest, and you’re correct James…most men these days do not do these things for their women. It takes one that is sensitive to the needs of his woman and he has to want to please her. I do not think what James is saying here has anything to do with getting laid, but everything to do with connecting with women on a level that isn’t beer bottles, farts and band t-shirts. I am lucky enough to have a man in my life who would do all of these things for me, just because he wants a connection and wants to be appreciated and for only those reasons. Kudos to the men that do and take a lesson for those that don’t.
I think this should entirely depend on a relationship. A man who was truly loving, caring, and respectful would seek to find out what would make the woman feel cared for, and what would not. Maybe I want to be walked to my door but not dropped off at the destination–what if I’d rather walk and talk with you?
I think everyone should hold the door for other people coming through if the person is right beside/behind them, or has their hands full. No matter the gender or relationship, that’s just courteous.
Opening car doors? Again, he should ask her. I’m not going to wait for my fiance to get there if I can reach it first. On the other hand, if he gets there first, he can feel free to open it since it makes him feel better, but unless my arms are full I REALLY don’t care. There are some women who would find it offensive–so their guy should seek to find that out and refrain. There are others who would feel loved by that–again, he should seek to find that out and make the effort.
Maybe someone doesn’t care about any of the things on this list, but they enjoy getting handwritten love letters, or feel warm inside if you greet them with a bow and a kiss on the hand, or text them funny pictures about shows they love, or buy them flowers, or buy them hilarious socks…
Maybe it’s traditional. Maybe it’s New Standard. (“Unless you’re at work, just text me back within an hour of my texting you, please!” is a newer standard of good behavior, for instance, or “Don’t be staring at your phone when you’re talking to me.”) Maybe it’s above-and-beyond. Maybe it’s geeky. Maybe it’s silly and personal.
The point I’m trying to make is, I don’t think The Gentleman is lost with the loss of one list of conventions or another. The Gentleman is lost when a man ceases to care and to take care. How women will want that done? THAT will evolve with the culture in general, and will vary from woman to woman specifically.
Excellent list, but I would add rising when a lady comes to or leaves the table. I have never seen another man do this, but that’s all the more reason to keep doing it! Women do appreciate the gesture.
[…] http://jamesmsama.com/2014/02/01/8-acts-of-chivalry-to-bring-back/comment-page-7/ […]
This is amazing!! Thank you so much for pushing the Chivalry movement!! The gentleman certainly is a rare breed, but hopefully your efforts on the male side and my efforts on the female side, we will bring back chivalry and the courtship that is meant to take place before every relationship. Wonderful post!!!!
Reblogged this on Dee's Dating Diary and commented:
Finally, a man concerned about bringing chivalry back!! Support the New Chivalry Movement!!!
Agree with most of them and but actually New Rules wouldn’t dictate that a man who has been working hard, say a 40 year old construction worker, should not feel that he should have to give up his seat for a young, able bodied woman who works in an office all day. Just being female does not automatically mean a man should rise from his seat.
I would add a few points that take chivalry one step further.
Give up your seat to an elderly man as well. Or to a man so he can sit next to the woman he is with.
I would also hold the door open for anyone who is within a reasonable distance, or wait with the door open for someone who’s carrying things or even delivery people with hand-trucks.
Buddy, I am very sorry I used the wrong name (yours) in a response to KAI. It should have been Nick Haz who has a very wrong attitude towards treating a woman nicely. You, however, has made a very good point on giving up your seat to an elderly man as well as woman. How thoughtful you are. Your whole reply was from someone who cares about people, no matter who. I commend you on your ideals which makes you a true gentleman. Again, I apologize for using your name in error to KAI. I tried to retrieve my post to edit it, but couldn’t so this is the best I could do under the circumstances. Thank you for your understanding.
Wonderful! Yes! I’m a woman, and I hold the door for anyone following me.
Right on, Leslie. The gender should not matter when it comes to good manners and helping others.
Thank you Buddy…finally a real Gentleman. It is about respect, not gender.
Very Nice List, My husband has done most of these things from the start which is why I still love him so much and after 17 years & why I strive to make him happy as well. It takes an hour to surprise him by baking his favorite cake or occasionally rubbing his feet after a long day of work. It’s the little things that keep us happy, but most importantly it’s just kindness. If a lady or man is behind me in a super market and they have a few items and I have a cart full of items, I generally let them go ahead of me. Why not, it usually only adds a few mins onto my day, and the look of gratitude from people is priceless :}
Wow! I do 8 out of 8 of these! My mother taught me from a very young age. A few more I would add to the list, if she’s cold give her your jacket, if you share a car, she takes the car and the guy takes the bus, if there isn’t enough food, offer to give her yours.
Jason, Kudos to your mom for bringing you up that way and Kudos to you for following her advice. You certainly sound like a gentleman through and through. You also added a few more great ideas. I hope you’re being appreciated by a wonderful woman who is also thoughtful and caring for you as well. I works both ways…
I meant to say “It” works both ways on my post to Jason. Last sentence…
I prefer just to be nice to people in general. Why do we have to have special rules on who to be nice to, how and when? Why not just indiscriminately open doors, compliment people, give up our seats, and drop people off before we park?
Wouldn’t it be lovely if everyone did that? 🙂
I agree. The acts being described here are nice things to do for other people. I would encourage both my son and my daughter to act with courtesy, compassion and general pleasantness to others.
Women cant have chivalry and equality, its one or the other!!
Anyone who believes in equality has to be punished, Why is that, Ryan?
Chivalry is dead. This sort of thing was legit in an era where women didn’t have equal rights.Times have moved on.
Completely disagree. Do you feel that equal rights are related to opening doors or pulling out chairs?
How is that related to equal pay for equal jobs?
Respect will never die.
so are you stating that chivalry should be a norm and always be applied by men?
Sure, why not? Just as women have a responsibility to be respectful and romantic in their own ways.
These are simple acts listed in this article. Opening doors, pulling out chairs, taking a coat. What reason would there be to NOT do these things, especially when out on a date or with a girlfriend/wife?
No of course I agree that doing these acts should be done and I respect your opinion. But for me personally, these acts are not to be done out of chivalry for the sake of gender roles. I believe that women and men don’t have any responsibilities as their gender (in a social sense) might dictate.
Instead to me these acts should be done as kindness for any person and not just to women. That is, do it for your best friend when you go out to get lunch with him/her even if you’re not romantically involved with them. Otherwise as two separate genders we do in fact become unequal, maybe not in terms of employment/pay or on a sheet of paper but certainly in the way that we interact.
Hence to me, in a state of total equality it’s just as reasonable and considerate for a woman to do such an act of “chivalry” as it is for a man. Even if it’s rather unusual for us in our time.
I do agree with you, in fact, I just had a similar discussion a little while ago during an interview.
The girl I was speaking with raised an interesting point though – would you pull out a chair for your guy friend? Her point was that while some of these are gender-neutral, some are gender-specific and typically in dating environments.
In response to your last point, yes, I do think that women have a responsibility to do things for men as well, and I’ve written articles about it. However I think the disconnect is that they wouldn’t be the SAME things. Chivalrous acts for a woman, while equally as respectful, are different in the literal act.
I hope this all makes sense as it is a bit of a ramble.
– JMS
It certainly all makes sense! No worries! This is a very interesting discussion James so thank you!
That’s certainly an interesting point that the girl raised. Instinctively I’d say no, i wouldn’t pull out a chair for a guy friend of mine. But as you said yourself, why not? These gender-neutral and gender-specific actions are roles are not genetic, but are instead are socially ingrained with us through culture and the way we were raised. And since society changes, so does our “normal” social behavior. Furthermore, I personally believe that with higher education (college + graduate school) and in more developed countries, gender in a social sense is being de-constructed. (It’s easy to see this, just look at other countries besides the US and Western Europe.) Otherwise you wouldn’t be posting about bringing back chivalry! Which makes it even more interesting because maybe 2-3000 years from now, we might find women performing these acts of chivalry for men that men perform for women today.
So personally in my own frame of mind, I’d say to me it’s fair that women and men do whatever they believe their gender roles means to them (as long as its not cruel of course!). So “chivalry” is a state of mind, it means something to you if you want it to, otherwise it doesn’t have to.
– Mohamed
**These gender-neutral and gender-specific actions and roles are not genetic, but instead are socially ingrained with us through culture and the way we were raised.** Sorry for not proof-reading!
9. Standing up when a woman walks into the room.
[…] Want to do more than just these small things? Don’t forget the 8 Acts Of Chivalry To Bring Back. […]
This article is about the chivalry acts that gentlemen can do for women. I totally agree that this should be the way, but there are times where “are there any things that women can do for men in return” or “are these women worth the time and effort” still keeps me thinking. All the internet has to offer about these kind of things are usually articles of what “men can do for women” but not much of “what women can do for men”. Does this mean that men MUST do all these without expecting anything, even the tiniest thing in return? Furthermore, many can argue that all women deserve all these, but there are some women, and i mean some, who don’t deserve all these chivalrous acts at all. After all, you should respect others first before expecting others to respect you, right?
Hi Che, thanks for your comment! I do agree with you – dating and relationships are two way streets. The nature of this website and my articles is primarily directed towards men regarding how we can be better in life, as well as love.
That being said, I do have articles outlining ways women can be romantic or do small special acts as well, found here:
http://jamesmsama.com/2014/02/24/10-ways-for-her-to-be-romantic/
http://jamesmsama.com/2014/03/05/8-things-guys-secretly-love/
And an older one, http://jamesmsama.com/2013/11/05/7-ways-to-make-your-man-feel-appreciated/
Let me know your thoughts. Thanks!
– James
How can you protect her if you drop her off before you park your car?
9. Offer your jacket or coat when she’s visibly cold… or simply your scarf. It’s the thoughts that counts. ^^
Men are gentlemen when they are around gentlewomen. Too many American women today are exposed to nothing but aggressive, pushy, self-centered, women who act like they are still 16 years old. Why would a guy bother to be a gentleman around that?
typo…. Too many American women today are …
I do all these things for my wife. I do them without even a thought.
Additionally, I do many of these things for everyone I encounter. It is just plain good manners!
It surprises me by how many men are leaving hateful comments towards women on here. Way to be a great example guys. I pity your children in society! Hopefully they have learned manners elsewhere.
I’m a very independent woman and always thought I was (proudly so). But being in relationship with my last boyfriend showed me that I can still be a strong woman and enjoy being taken care of- and feeling feminine as a woman. From day one he ALWAYS opened doors (car and building), told me I was beautiful every day, walked me to my car, and called, even just to say a quick ‘hello’ while he was out of town for work (texting is ok too, when there is ALSO calling). Yes, at first I was a little awkward and not sure what to do with myself, but it didn’t take long for me to figure it out and his efforts made me feel treasured, appreciated and cared for. And to those who’ve said chivalry is only for getting laid – we were in a long term relationship and decided not to have sex outside of being married (and I’m in my 30’s, I’m not 18). I did my part as well – we were very communicative and I made an effort to affirm him and do little things (like dishes at his house, which he hated doing!) that made him feel appreciated too. Even though we aren’t together now – we ended amicably and still only have positive words for each other and the relationship we shared. He set the bar very high, and demonstrated that some men do know how to respect and honor women, even in today’s busy working world. And I am grateful for that experience.
I would be more apt to behaving in a chivalrous manner, if there were women who were worthy of acting chivalrous towards.
One might argue that a man should act chivalrous out of interest in propriety and being a better person. Chivalry is not based on the deemed worthiness of another. 😉
Chivalry, yeah yeah….more importantly, where may I find that red dress?? :-p
(I do adore chivalry in a man, though, and more men should bring it)
There are 2 problems with this… 1) the feminist movement emasculated men so they lost their will to do any of these… 2) we women that want this stuff settle for men that don’t provide this stuff… we should “demand” better treatment rather than settling and then maybe men would start doing all this again…. but I’m not holding my breath….
I completely agree, Dawn. While sure, the feminist movement has done some good things, I feel like it has at times gone too far blurring the lines between femininity and masculinity. I will never forget how it made me feel the first time a man stood up just because I was getting up from the table. I married that man.
Love this. To me, it’s all about common courtesy in both sexes.
[…] James Michael Sama / February 1, 2014 […]
The point is to humble yourself unto others, especially men who are the stronger (physically) in these examples. Ladies are expected to behave kindly to men as well in many other ways. Don’t speak harshly. Dote on men, we love the extra attention. Manners and chivalry are all a code born of Jesus’ teachings in the high minded times in Europe when great wealth allowed for more developed customs. Not everyone is taught these customs, so here now with our big melting pot we don’t see it so much. Hard for people barely surviving to have developed any code of manners, but in Europe it served to destinguish the upper classes from the rest. It still does…I’m not talking about rich people now…old saying where I come from, “manners will get you where your money won’t!”
Better yet follow the two great commandments. love thy neighbor and thy God. Also, never take advantage of your position of strength outside of business. Be humble and giving. Don’t dwell on your trials and worries but rather devote yourself to serving others and you will always be happy and well loved!
Some people won’t get it. Big deal. You won’t waste your kindness on them for long… For those that don’t care for manners, other folks do notice it in your behavior, I am certain.
Oh my, this is great! It is so unfortunate that men have to be told this stuff. I would be in heaven if I met a chivalrous man. Women need to get better at accepting it though. I see and hear so many women who take some of those behaviors offensively like the man does not respect her independence. I think it gets confusing for men.
http://www.questforahusband.com
I ageee with you!
Chivalry be damned, so what if he opens a car door or walks you to your door, if when he hangs out with his guy friends there isn’t a shred of respect in the way they speak about women or other men? That is what helps makes Chivalry an empty act. It’s a pseudo form of respect, filled with under tones of inequality.
Chivalry is : the combination of qualities expected of an ideal knight, esp courage, honour, justice, and a readiness to help the weak. So acting Chivalrous toward a person does carry, by definition, a view that the person you are helping is weak.
Where as considerate is : showing kindly awareness or regard for another’s feelings, circumstances.
If you want to give up your seat for someone who is older or holding a child (Mom or Dad), that’s a thoughtful and considerate act that should be acknowledged with a kind Thank you (even if the person refuses to accept the gesture), but drop the Chivalry Title. Chivalry is dead, and for good reason.
You are literally the shining example of why the feminism movement has such a negative stigma. No a chivalrous act does not by definition carry a view that the person you are helping is weak. If we’re going to be twisting definitions to prove our points then I’ll nitpick at your definition of chivalry. It also says that a quality of chivalry is honor. Honor is defined as regarding something/someone with the highest respect, therefore an act of chivalry can also be viewed as an act of appreciation for someone that you hold in high regard. The way I see it, it’s definitely a form of respect, and not in anyway a stab at how weak and feeble the person is. We can argue over the semantics of the word used to describe the acts, but it won’t change the connotation of the action being performed. So, stop being so loud on the internet, it’s making the real feminists look bad.
Great advice! But if I could add my own advice, dressing fashionably is important! I always wear my white suit of Armour and my fedora when I’m courting a m’lady (cane is optional).
I have been with my husband going on 5 years and he does all of those things for me. He has done it since day one and I felt weird at first because I had never been with a gentlemen and this was very new to me. I absolutely love it and I love watching him be a gentlemen to others it’s one of the sexiest things I have ever seen. A gentlemen is truly a dying breed,men need to teach their boys how to be a gentlemen and treat a woman with respect. I am happy I found mine before they’re all gone. Good luck out there ladies!!
[…] (via 8 Acts Of Chivalry To Bring Back | James Michael Sama.) […]
I would point out that giving up your seat or opening a door applies to everyone, not just for a woman.
I was brought up to treat women this way. I’ve known a lot of women who claim they want this. They don’t. They push ahead of me to open a door when I try to do it for them, or smirk when I offer my seat or offer to walk them to the door — as though I’m using kindness to take advantage of them.
Those ideas come from feminism. Mean-mouthed feminists didn’t go extinct in the 1970s, as one comenter here has (rather snarkily) suggested. They’re alive and well. They, and Political Correctness, have killed off gentlemen, which are classified as sexist relics.
You ladies want a gentleman? Too late. Clean up the feminists and P.C. under control, and maybe you’ll revive the idea for the next generation.
See and much like the radical feminazi a few posts up, you create problems for the feminists who are actually reasonable people. I am by no means a fan of the feminist movement (or any form of modern activism really, I just find it all to be extremely pedantic), but not all women or feminists believe what you perceive them to believe. You shouldn’t be performing these acts with the intent of getting recognition or acknowledgement. You should just do these things because,regardless of what a woman or a man makes of your actions, you should show everyone respect and these acts are no less important than any of the manners our parents taught us.
I agree. Women shouldnt feel empowered from tearing men down. Thats equivalent to a bully feeling empowered for making fun of someone or a dictator feeling enpowered after mass killing citizens. Empowerment should come from positivd mindsets and yield positive, progressive results. I agree with womens rights, but not with the feminist movement
“Both sides say one side should be treated better than the other. If you don’t, then you must HATE that side!”
That’s what this argument sounds like at times.
I would agree with most of these, but I really feel uncomfortable with the chair thing. I can place my chair where I want it much easier than you can. You aren’t a mind reader and I don’t expect you to be. I will also add men typically will act like a gentleman when a woman acts like a lady. Most of the time gentleman open doors for me or offer me their seat. I respond with a gracious smile and a thank you. Yes, I could do it myself, but I appreciate the act of kindness.
He only said to pull out the chair when convenient, and he never said anything else about positioning the chair.
Nice post. I’m 53, happily married for 16 years:
Giving up seat: if she’s older than me, yes. If not, but she looks like she might be tired and needs the seat, I do it surreptitiously as if this were my stop anyway, while making sure that nobody swoops in front of her. I’m not sure if she would see my giving her the seat because of her gender as patronizing.
Opening doors: I do that for anybody on my way through, but I’d only stop and hold it if the person were weighted down (or with kids) or elderly. Or for my wife. Otherwise, to make a show of it could risk appearing patronizing.
Pulling out chair: only on a special date. Otherwise my wife (or client) would think me odd.
Call for a date: if I were dating again, yes, I would call. It’s more personal, more of an effort, puts more of me at risk. Therefore, a good idea to call.
Compliment: but of course … but only tell her she’s beautiful if that’s the kind of compliment she wants. Know what makes her happy: she may want to be told that she’s smart, that a dress she’s wearing is really amazing (mean it!), that she’s kind. Tailor the compliments to her values.
Walking on street side: I do that anyway (when I remember), for the reasons cited. It’s subtle, but can really pay off in case of a splash.
Walking her to the door: on a date? Always. But if she’s an old friend or acquaintance, I’d park right in front of the door if possible, but definitely stay until she gets safely in and closes the door.
Drop her off when parking? I do that when the weather is bad or she’s in heels. Or when there are elderly folk involved. But normally, she doesn’t mind the walk because she rarely wears heels.
I enjoy women who give up their seats to men.
I enjoyed this post immensely. I have been on the receiving end of having 1 or 2 items at the checkout and being asked to go ahead, by a kind lady. I’ve also had store doors opened for me by ladies. I was only taught to say please and thank you. The other stuff I learned on my own. I hold doors for people behind me, women and people with hand trucks. At work I offer my hand to elderly and women getting out of their cars. On a rare occasion a woman will take it and smile.
On Sweetest day, once a year, I send someone a pair of bunnyslippers and a poem, 8 prs. so far and never got sex out of it, lol. Be yourself, just be nice! I am So grateful I met a Lady recently, who loves me being a gentleman. There’s nice people out there, chances are you’ll meet one. I’ve had Essential Tremor my whole life, people judge me everyday. Chivalry is not dead. Kindness is it’s own reward.
I will say my 18 year old son who was raised to treat women as being described in this article was dropped as a dating partner because she told me he was too nice, she was used to dating ” bad” boys and she could not see herself with someone that acted as he did. He has since married and found a partner that likes being treated with respect, but no, not all women want what is described here
I totally agree, which is why she said a man will act like this when the girl acts like a lady…. That being said I used to feel very uncomfortable when a guy would do any of these things, but now 10 years later I want those things back!!! I’ve been not only disregarded by men over the past ten years but down right disrespected.. So off to search for the true manly qualities!! I have tried to teach my current bf of 6 years most of these tips and I have to say he does 30% of them 30% of the time -.- he didn’t meet his dad till he was 17 and his mom died at 18 so I’m trying to give him a break to learn those things his parents, or dad particularly, should of done! It’s a slow work in progress but hey ya know I truely appreciate it every time he does one of these tips!!! Trust me guys it doesn’t go unnoticed, even if you think it does bc of no recognition back! If it seems like it makes a girl weirded out when you do some of these things then just start out with 2 tips.. My suggestions 1. Opening the door for her to a business or home 2. Walk on the outside where you can protect her.. And always carry protection ie a good beefy pocket knife so she can feel safe and sound! That’s gotta be the one thing girls look for on the first date… “Does he make me feel safe” and if the answer is “yes” it might open more than doors for ya if you catch my drift!!!!! Hahahahahaha
I agree that not all women are going to like what is described, but in that case it was a good litmus test to get rid of women who were not good matches for him. Any woman who describes a man as “too nice” is looking for something else. Better to get that information in the beginning so not to waste time.
Not all woman like men to be chivalrous towards them, especially if they are turing to be super “independent”. So as a male, I can say your not talking for 100% of the woman, probably another percentage of woman. Either way I’ve always been chivalrous until I found put they didn’t like it. So it’s not just men, it’s also probably the woman. And aren’t we suppose to be equal lol. Why woman need special treatment, because of high heels? Not trying to fight or argue. But just stating an opinion. Nice article btw.
Have you ever worn a pair of high heels? Try em on and take 3 steps. You’ll see why its nice to not make them walk for miles
I’ve alway been what you would call a gentleman. My forming years i was raised by a single who was big on respect for other. Now the idea of gentlemen and ladies isnt to be “chivilrous” to the opppsite sex as a man, or expect chivrolous acts as a female. As a gentleman or lady you make sure the company youre with or your guest are as comfortable as much as possible.
You have to understand that its different time now, not leave it beaver 1950s anymore. Womem want equality, understandably, but with that comes less chivrilous acts, because being equal means doing more for yourself and expecting less from others.
But that doesnt mean chivalry has died. Its adapted. Now since were in a time of equal change, I feel if you want chivily resurrcted then it has to be equal. Women, or ladies, are the ones that need to start doing chivilrous acts, until its unviersal between ladies and gentlemen. Its not just men that need to treat women better. We all need to respect one another more.
As I read this, I was literally thinking “I wish I could date a man like that”. I don’t know any women that wouldn’t be absolutely swept away if their date acted in a gentlemanly manner. If that’s not encouragement enough, think on this: I think women behave how they are treated. If you take a normal, average woman, out on a date and treat her like a b****, watch her become one. But treat her like a lady….
If I asked my girlfriend to wait in the car while I walked around to her side to open the door for her she would probably laugh and get out.
I’d imagine that she would, but why would you do that in the first place?
Surely nobody is suggesting that you make her wait while you get out of the car and open it so she can also get out…
I see, I was unclear. However, some of these seem to walk a very fine line between chivalrous and patronizing.
Based upon the direction of this article, the idea that a man would get out first, walk around and open the door seems to be a very reasonable extension of your suggestions. Surely you know that in the past the above idea was seen as good manners?
Even I find that idea a tad chauffeur-like. To run around her side of the car to assist in getting out? One of the important parts of any of these actions is that they come across as natural and effortless. There is nothing natural or effortless about having a woman sit in a car until you open the door for her to get out.
Simply walking together to her side of the car *before* getting in so you can open the door is a much different story than this.
Though, it is just my opinion – I would never suggest the action in question.
– JMS
It’s more I’d say If you’re walking to the car together and you walked her to her side and opened the door for her to get in. Not really to get out, that’d take too long. Btw my man from time to time opens doors for me and I think it’s really sweet. 🙂
depends on the way your girl is tho, if she’s hardcore feminist then I doubt she’d like it. Just my take. 🙂
Yeah, that’s seen as a bit odd. But opening her door first when you both walk *to* the car? Smooth. I still do that when we’re dressed up.
I’d agree with reginaldqlongbottom about the thin line between chivalrous and patronizing. First of all, this article should switch up all the gendered articles, since men and women can and should do all of these things for other people. One thing that should be included is offering to help someone carrying a heavy load, if they seem to be struggling. For a woman with a baby carriage or a man with a lot of groceries, whoever. It’s about being a good person, not getting a girl into bed. Make sure you really are doing it for the right reason: respect.
And make sure you do it in the right way. I’ve had men who refused to go through a door I opened for them, insisting that they open it for me. Don’t be a dingbat. Appreciate when someone does something nice for you, and strive to do the same for those around you simply for the sake of doing it.
Well said!
I was taught by my Grandfather these simple acts of being a gentleman. They are ingrained in me so much that i have a hard time not extending these courtesies. As the author says, they are meant to be acts of respect and thoughtfulness. A gentleman should always show respect to a lady, and a lady should accept these behaviors with courtesy and gratitude. Of course, I was raised in the South where these acts are not uncommon. Manners are our way of show people we care.
I totally agree. My husband does all these things and teaches our two boys the same. Ive always expected him to do them and hes always done them. In fact all the guys ive ever dated (even the jerks) have done these things out of simple courtesy and manners. Im from the south also. Maybe its just a way of life here to be kind and show good breeding. I really couldnt imagine any decent guy not doing these things. And no decent lady expecting anything less. Ladies it doesnt mean you are any less equal or independent by letting a man be kind to you. Sometimes i think we(ladies) get so wrapped up in proving we are such “independent new age modern women not needing a man for anything” that we actually discourage men from these simple acts of kindness that only so they care.
The word that caught my eye in here is a key word – respect. And there’s a difference between chivalry and respect. Chivalry is manners and, while manners are lovely to have and be treated to (because it’s actually very uncommon these days!!) I’d much rather see respect. Respect is circumstantial – a person (young, old, male, female, teenager, child) should ALWAYS help/give up a seat/hold a door for another person who is behind them/is handicapped in some way/dealing with a load of some sort. Show kindness and thoughtfulness.
I totally agree with you Lena!! While I was reading it I thought to myself “geez, I do all of those things when I go out with my girl friends and when I’m out with my husband” I work in the emergency room and you see soooooo many opportunities where you can help another human being! And I’m always sooooo surprised when a man totally ignores or doesn’t notice a woman in need of a hand or another man for the sake of argument!! It boils my blood… I wasn’t raised to be as respectful as I believe I am today, but I have this protector/people pleaser complex and it has really made me realize that maybe I can just sum it up to the fact that I do it out of respect for others!! It’s a way better way of thinking about it- respect vs doing it for selfish reasons…. With the overwhelming positive responses I’ve gotten from patients I can’t see myself going back to just watching disasters happen right in front of my face… To add to your comment I think it really comes down the presentation… If it seems from the heart and genuine it will come across as genuine and not patronizing… It’s all in the delivery.. If it seems forced it will seem creepy to the female!
I think the point of the article is that “kids these days are rude”.
My guy does all of this. We’ve been together for over 5 years. He always walks to my side of the car first to let me get in and then goes to his side. Of course, I don’t sit there and wait until he gets out and walks around to open the door for me. I just get out. I still say thank you every time he opens a door for me or compliments me!
A necessary caveat to all of these should be, “If the person asks you NOT to do these things, simply acquiesce. Don’t argue. Don’t shame them. Don’t tell them you were just trying to be nice. If a person says they can get the door on their own, or they don’t mind standing, or they find annoying that you rush in front of them to get the car door, or that your ‘compliments’ are not appreciated or even worse are downright creepy, just gracefully accept it and move on.” At the end of the day, chivalry for both genders is about being polite to those around you, it’s not about boosting your own ego and it’s definitely not expecting other people to rolling over and telling you how wonderful you are just because you did something slightly inconvenient for yourself in order to receive a compliment on it.
Your thoughts on the motives of others is quite upside down.
you’ll be surprised, when you ask someone if they want your seat, they will most likely say no. but if you were to stand up and say here have my seat with a smile, they would gladly sit down…tired, old, young, fat skinny, just for the fact that you got up. and like mentioned in a comment above, when an action comes across as natural, and effortless no explanation is required, but i do agree that when someone is not impressed by these actions listed it is necessary to just keep it moving.
I would like to preface this comment with that fact that I actually do most of these things already until they come to be expected and you all stop showing appreciation(like you always do). That being said, Ladies, you either can be treated equally or we can bring chivialry back. You don’t get both, now pick one and stick to it.
I grew up in a day where parents taught these etiquette points to their sons. The ladies young and older ladies appreciated the gesture of a man acting like a gentleman. Now the young ladies call the younger guys, dress so boys fix their gaze on thier low cut blouses/ seaters and generally are not taught what this “view” sparks in a young man. The key – good parenting! Large lack of it for at the last twenty years.
If a boy stares at a woman’s ass or chest that is his fault not hers.
Tim, would this be before or after the time where those women were also be blamed for inciting rape by those daring knee-length skirts? http://www.gvpt.umd.edu/lpbr/subpages/reviews/schulhofer.html. Do us a favor and DONT romanticize the past, much less propagate rape culture by assuming these young ‘gentlemen’ simply can’t help but rape people if they see a low cut blouse.
seriously? you bring up rape? The guy was just talking about making the guy get a little excited if you catch my drift. Why on earth is it SO WRONG to be polite to those around you. OH yeah we’re all feminists and equal opportunists therefore we can take care of ourselves and this society of ours has turned into a self-centered, rude, asinine society who lack respect for anyone around them. Is it SO TERRIBLE for someone to open a door? give up their seat when you are carrying 50lbs? protect you from getting splashed? My gosh, its not a sign of weakness to accept the polite gestures of others.
Theres no one or the other. My belief is that our chilvalrous acts should have at their motivation our most tender feelings for the women we love. In this context it will be easier for her to accept your chivalry and her equality with you at the same time in her heert without friction. Then shes just gonna love you back.
This article was written by a man, for men, why are you telling ladies we don’t get both? As a lady, I choose equality, and I would not want any person to do these things for me because of my gender. However, as many of the commenters have pointed out, you don’t need a penis to do most of the actions on this list, and you don’t need a vagina to be on the receiving end. Everyone can be nice to each other.
If you live in the south then this should be second nature to you.
agreed.
Amen
Love Love Love! My boyfriend is the ultimate example of a gentleman. He opens the door for me, closes doors behind me, drops me off where I need to go, helps carry my bags if I have any, compliments me.. etc. I’ll do his laundry, make him his favorite food, help pay for any expenses he struggles with, compliment him a lot, ALWAYS thank him for any small act he does, clean his place, and we always support each other’s life goals within reason. I absolutely love being with such a kind and generous man, and I couldn’t be happier!
I bet you expect her to have dinner in the table when you get home from work while wearing a naughty French Maid outfit too. Women want respect, not feigned chivalry. As a stay-at-dad (by choice) of 2 girls, I find this notion of “chivalry” shallow and pedantic. As for the women out there, you want the best of all worlds, to be treated equally and like a lady. Call me cynic but, the world doesn’t work that way. It all boils down to mutual respect, not shallow attempts at faux chivalry.
Hmmm…I never said that in the article, did I? In fact, I often cook for my girlfriend and I rather than the other way around.
Perhaps if you absorbed the notion put forth in this article that chivalry IS respect, then the words “feigned” and “pedantic” wouldn’t even cross your mind when writing a comment.
Treating a woman with chivalry and respect has nothing to do with equality – they are very much equal being part of the same human race as us, yes? Opening a door or pulling out a chair has nothing to do with that.
Thanks for your comment.
– James
James, I have to play devil’s advocate simply because you can’t say ‘chivalry IS respect’ and then go on to say ‘with chivalry and respect’ – look, they’re either the same or different. Either you’re talking about chivalry, the ‘medieval knighthood system based on religious, moral, and social code’ (which I hope not, since most history professors will be the first to tell you that it was incredibly outdated and disrespectful to women – one of the key tenets being treating them as property or prizes) or ‘courteous behavior’. Now, this is why some people get pissed off at the concept, because they see the first definition – moral, out-dated and disrespectful codes being lauded as great- which goes against the definition of respect, which would be ‘a feeling of deep admiration for someone or something elicited by their abilities, qualities, or achievements.’ The knighthood codes specifically devalued women based on their preconceived abilities (or lack thereof) and only valued them based on their ability to breed (which was why rape was used as such an effective weapon of dishonor, as it ‘ruined’ the girl for any future marriage potential).
If, however, you meant courteous behavior, then yes, absolutely I am all for it and you are right, it does not have anything to do with equality (though your article might be even further strengthened by emphasizing doing these tasks equally to everyone, in that case, rather then just to women). However…this should also include you, and how you interact with other equals/men. Ad hominem attacks on commentators who disagree with the viewpoint you have put forth unfortunately do not display the chivalry you aim to promote.
If i may interject something that speaks to the emotion of it (chivalry) in my experience…
My belief is that our chivalrous acts should have at their motive the most tender feelings we have for the women we love. In this context, my chivalry and her knowledge of equality to me are completely compatable and won’t create any friction in her heart.
The same can be true of women not close to you if they sense your respectful nature – and they will sense whatever you’ve brought with you if they’re listening to themselves.
Another point of our humanity I’d like to bring up is that the prevailing theme on this continent (and likely elsewhere) for many thousands of years around “chivalry” was that the warriors were the first to die and the last to do everything else. Their reverence for the feminine and for that which was entrusted them to protect was greater than the value of their own lives – nay – it was a defining characteristic of their life’s value.
Ladies, I would like you to know that these deeply engrained instincts have not left our blood. Chivalry of course, while being no replacement for our need to express these feelings for our women (even women we don’t know ~ OUR WOMEN!!! ) surely is born of those feelings.
Of course I’ve said nothing of the atrocity of perception alot of men and women have for one another and themselves which might ever prevent them from enjoying this piece of us.
Of course I would comply with someones request that I not expect that type of interaction with them out of respect for their own way… but this begs the question ~ how many of us possess the communication skills necessary to navigate differing views on the subject (or any other) without a dramatic episode or hurt feelings or a fallback to the trench?
James – chivalry is respect for people who have the right idea of what equality really means. These people simply don’t understand. They think it makes them weak to accept this, unequal, like they need taken care of. They simply don’t get that perhaps the guy might want to do these things for them. Stubborn people. Where I come from, when one makes a trip to wal-mart you actually have to wait on the line of Senior Citizens dropping their wives off at the door. When you go to Church, you have to wait on the line of senior citizens dropping their wives off at the door. When you go to restaurants you have to wait on the line of Senior Citizens at the drink counter tryin to decide if they want tea or water. It’s what we “young people” do. They’ve earned their keep and as far as I’m concerned even though we have 2 kids that are impatient we wait on them to go ahead. In fact, i’ve helped them fix their ketchup before.
Fully agree with you James. I think EqualityMan has a serious problem. I treat my wife of 30 years with respect. She is very intelligent, ,suma cum laude, and very independent. All the same, she totally loves being pampered, including all the things you mention in the article, which I do for her because it’s the right thing to do. Being nice is not condescending or feigned. Methinks EM is secretly upset he doesn’t wear the pants in the family. And, yes, she does have dinner ready (sometimes dressed in something very desirable) when I come home from work. Not because I expect it, but because that’s what people who love and respect each other do. Maybe that explains 30 years of marriage….
I think the big problem here is that people are using two definitions of “chivarly” interchangeably in the same thread, sometimes in the same comment, and that makes it very hard to have a meaningful conversation.
Doing nice things for your significant other, be it man or woman, it’s not chivarly according to the definition I’m accustomed to. It’s part of a relationship, and something both parts do for the other person because that person is loved and special. They don’t normally behave like that to other men or women, only this special person. That’s the definition you seem to be using in your comment, and the one you’re using to very transparently and toxicly criticize EM.
The problem is that’s not the definition James used in the original post, and not the definition most people use when talking about chivalry. Chivalry is understood as behavior ALL men should have regarding ALL women, only because they’re men and they’re women.
It’s giving them the seat not because they’re elderly, pregnant or disabled, but because they’re women. I’ts paying for their dinner, or standing up when they enter the room, purely because they’re women.
And there is no inverse set of rules for women to follow when they treat men.
That’s inequality. That’s giving one gender special privileges and making the other gender subservient, based on nothing more than the fact that one was born male and the other female. That’s what’s against equality, and that’s what people here are talking about when they say that.
Whether you and people who comment like you are committing the equivocation fallacy on purpose or without noticing is something I’m still not sure about.
For all the men saying women want the best of both worlds (chivalry and equality) that is NOT true! I want to be treated as a man’s equal. Do I think its nice when they open the door for me? Yes, but I also open the door for guys and other women hold it open for me. People should do nice things for people, whether it is a man doing something for a woman or vice versa.
CHIVALRY IS DEAD!!!! Lol. I’ll be nice to a woman as long as she isn’t treating me like shit. Not gonna bow down, and say, your my queen and I’m your serf/slave. Besides money is better.
Nikolai, with all due respect, if you think chivalry is equal to being a slave or serf, then you have no idea what chivalry means.
THANK YOU. This is the next step in treating people better.
As a guy who was raised to be a gentleman, whenever I open or hold the door for ladies, 80% of the time girls either give me a snide comment like “I already have a boyfriend”, or give me dirty looks. Not all guys are creeps, and I’m not doing this because I like you!!! Only like 20% of girls thank me for it. I don’t mind being a gentleman, but ladies please be respectful and say thank you, It makes guys want to do it more. Most guys stop being chivalrous because their efforts aren’t being noticed.The problem is men are expected (by some people) to do them for women, period. Women are usually only expected to treat men well if they “deserve it”. I have no problem holding a door open for a woman, but don’t tell me I’m supposed to do it “because I’m a man” without something to go along with it.
True. I posted about this below….I’ve definitely received some “like I couldn’t do that…” type of comments.. I guess you do it anyway because it’s a good thing to do. Especially like opening the door for someone as they come out of a store, and you go in. If they’re carrying bags etc. But this happens all the time. Women wonder why men don’t approach them and ask them out. Most of the time guys try this they got shot down, lol, so I guess that’s similar to our little situation here.
As a woman, NO! I would rather have civility than chivalry. I feel more comfortable going dutch and holding as many doors open for him as he does for me. I have worked hard to earn my respect as a human, not just a woman. I would rather be treated a strong person, than treated like just a woman. I understand not all other women feel this way, however for me, not allowing me to share in the “chivalry” is demeaning and is telling me i am in need of caring of. My husband of 6 years is the most amazing person in my life and is there to walk through life with me by my side. Not as my caretaker, not as my footstool, but as my best friend. Opening a door for me, but then allowing me to hold the next one does not tell me im not worthy of respect, but tells me i am a capable individual with my own working mind and we can share respect. However the thing on the heels, yes, just as i would find the parking spot if he were wearing awful shoes.
I think it is very sweet of guys to do those things mentioned in the article. When strangers hold the door open for me sometimes I am so stunned I forget to say thank you because nobody seems to do it very often. Nonetheless, I am always thankful for it and it is a nice gesture for anybody to do.
I am all for gender equality but I don’t think it’s condescending of guys to do these things for women, so long as they still respect that woman. For example, if a woman told her date or whatever to stop holding the door open for her I think the guy should respect her wishes. If the woman says that these gestures make her uncomfortable or seem condescending, a guy should respect that and stop.
But I think it’s just nice for a guy to at least offer. It’s like when you’re out with a group of people and everyone offers to pay. It’s being polite.
Can we make it not sexist and have women being chivalrous as well? Come on, it’s a new millenium.. I’m pretty offended on this one. You can have equality, or men who are expected to be gentlemen. You can’t have both.
Yes you can. There are plenty of articles on this site for both genders as well as equality. There is no conflict between chivalry and equality.
James, your article does not make it seem that way. The first one, offering up your seat, kind of sets that tone for the rest of it. “I always cringe a bit when I see a woman or elderly person forced to stand while young men remain distracted by their phones.” Were is the equality in that statement? A woman. What age does that start? At what point is she a woman and not a kid/teenager and is now considered more deserving of the seat than any man that was all ready there? With the elderly I agree, but it isn’t just cringe worthy when young men don’t give up their seat. What about young women? Or even adult women? They can also give up their seat for the elderly. But making it seem like only men should give it for all women is an old ideal that is pretty much saying, “You are weaker than me, just like that elderly person. So you should sit.” The idea of giving up your seat is because they need it more than you do. In this day of equality, I give up my seat to my date or to those I am traveling with. Outside of that, it goes to the infirm or the elderly. That’s about it. I have gotten on a bus with crutches and a broken leg. NO ONE gave up their seat. Young or old, male or female. Honestly, that was not right. I might be 6’4″ and was in my 20’s at the time. But there was no reason a better in shape person, of any gender, couldn’t have offered me a seat. I should be able to receive the same respect that I dish out when applicable. And the world does not reflect that.
I firmly believe in treating people with respect. And I do tend to do many of these things for women, of any relation. But it is not always accepted or wanted. So the blanket concept of this article also is incorrect. As all blanket statements are (even that one I just said. Conflicting isn’t it. I think I just broke the universe). Honestly I think the only one here that still feels 100% correct is “walking her to her door”. That is spot on. Yet this can often be done from the car and just watching to make sure she got inside all right. Otherwise, the point is in hopes of getting a goodnight kiss. If you can see that she got safely into her house 20 feet from your car, and you are just friends, then that’s it. All though, I have and do walk female coworkers to their cars at night after work. That’s really more about safety and respect than chivalry. Especially depending on the neighborhood/area, could be vital to do so. Otherwise, everything else seems to be applicable to both genders. Accept the chair pulling thing. Most ladies I have dated don’t seem to know what to do with that. Or at least the sliding them in part. Pulling it out is ok, but I almost always let them seat themselves. And my current relationship started via Facebook messaging. Almost every date we set up since then is either planned on FB or text messages. We are both very busy so talking on the phone doesn’t really work out very well. Again, blanket statements. Saying that calling is so much better these days is equivalent to saying you should always ask a woman out with a letter when phones were still new. Or saying that you shouldn’t ask the girl out, you should ask her father first if it’s ok.
I’m definitely not trying to attack you, so I don’t want you to feel that way. I have some disagreements that you might agree with. Things that would come out with longer discussion than bullet point blogs allow. Really, I’m more than sure you know that all of these things don’t apply all the time. But this type of internet based exchange of information is always open to scrutiny, even more than the point of the article deserves. For example, even with my disagreements here, I agree that those men that don’t do these things should. There are a lot of disrespectful men out there, especially to women. Even more sad is that there are women out there that seem to like it, flock to it and/or even mirror it. So many possible reasons for that, and so much more than I feel like getting into. Which really, I need to stop. I love good conversations and get way to into them when I have other things to do. So enough for the chivalry conversation today on my part. I gotta get back to editing Amazon fetish porn. A 6′ 200lb woman ex-bodybuilder model who gets paid to demean and beat up men, BY THOSE MEN!!! Even she’s still amazed that this is her job now. It’s a weird new world we live in man, weird indeed.
PS: I don’t hold or open doors for the Amazon, she’s not a big fan of it. ;P
Very beautiful article…. Will help lot of men who just are pig-head to understand such trivial things about loving and caring… A person must not read this stuff, a good man will always have this kind of mannerisms inbuilt in him!! Men should understand and realize their responsibilities, protecting their spouses and caring for them should come through natural instincts … Anyways the article shouldnt be used in wrong way just to impress ur gurl.. This stuff should be done with pure respect for ladies with good heart and crinkling smile in the eyes !!
I try to do these things frequently…some women are okay with it, other women act almost as if you’re saying they can’t open the door on their own, etc.
[…] Link to 8 Acts of Chivalry. […]
my husband does all of these things. not every time. and in the beginning of our dating I took the feminist side and balked about being able to do for myself but I soon realized that these habits were engrained in him and when he would hold doors for others (men and women), stop to help someone that was struggling (men and women), pull out chairs for me AND my sister I knew how respectful he was being and it made me love him more. It made me appreciate his parents for raising him this way. It’s part of what makes him a good husband
I don’t mind that you, yourself, do these things.
I think the problem here is that you are only telling men to do these things. Why are you saying it’s a man’s job to get the door? In your poll you state ‘less than one out of five men pull out her seat’ but you neglect to say how many women pull out the seat for the people they are with. I bet not even one in a hundred women pull out the seat consistently for their husbands.
‘But Cody, that’s not the women’s job!’
And therein lies the problem. Why should this be the man’s job? Because being born with a penis makes it easier to move a chair back? Because he is ‘stronger’ so he should make the sacrifices to make life easier for his weaker half?
I think it’s kind of bullshit to expect anything out of someone because of their gender. I can’t think of any decent reason these tasks should be assigned to just men.
“I think it’s kind of bullshit to expect anything out of someone because of their gender. I can’t think of any decent reason these tasks should be assigned to just men.”
Oh Cody, Cody, Cody…. this beautiful article speaks to the (dare I say) “spiritual” or “energetic” aspects of being a man or a woman.
Ask someone who is transgendered to speak to what it’s like to FEEL like a female or male while in the opposing gender’s body…
I am a woman in my 40s and I used to do what many men in this comment thread have mentioned… blow off a gesture of chivalry because I could do it myself…
I have come to learn over the years that when a woman is obviously physically capable of opening a door on her own a man will open the door for her… not because he thinks she’s weak… but because he is honoring her.
Now, I make a point of saying thank you when this happens. I’m still perfectly capable of opening a door on my own but I like participating in the gestures that acknowledge the differences between men and women.
I’m also rock solid sure that men and women, black or white, rich or poor are equal on every level except the surface. It’s our differences that make life so interesting and fun. I say roll with it.
James Sama I respect your efforts in this day and age. It says a lot about your character. I just discovered your site within the last month. You remind me of Kris Wolfe. He preaches a lot about these things also. I think women need to just calm down and just take the respect/honor. This is one of the main reasons why a lot of them don’t have a man/destroy a marriage. They keep claiming their strong,independent, always right, etc.. Its annoying. Let your strength speak for itself along with your accomplishments. How would you like it if a man bragged about his degrees, accomplishments, and sports cars? You wouldn’t like it. However, not just doing this for women, but just for people in general. Feminists keep preaching about how women we’re oppressed by men (yes sure some men have abused their power throughout history, but a majority of it is lies on steroids). If women were oppressed, then men we’re right there along with them in the oppression. I love women, but they just need to chill out. They we’re freed from marriage(which our nation was built upon, strong families, etc.) Now they want to fight for men to step up to the plate lol.
That comment about how one person mentioned that history professors say it’s outdated and disrespectful? Ignorant. Women are still disrespected in this day and age. Why? Because they allow it.
The more we fight for equality, the more we lack quality. Just look around. Why are so many beautiful successful women single? I see guys with no motivation, barely keep a job, sleep with the hottest women and we have the nerve to say we’re progressing? Lol smh, keep dreaming….
However, chivalry/respect/honor works. We’re busy fighting for equality so much until we lose the differences between the genders. Women are stunned when I show kindness,compassion towards them. As I said before, not just women, but people in general. Humility has gotten a bad rep in modern times. But a majority of the time, the most arrogant people are the most insecure. Society overcomplicates things. Women don’t ask for much… Be the person you want to meet. Be the change you want to see in the world. Humility goes a long way with a woman. I know of this. My father has been married to the same woman for nearly 4 decades. Couldn’t do this without humility and honoring my mother. Your chivalry/honor/respect is appreciated James. A gentleman is a very rare breed nowadays.
Thank you! Thank you! You are soooo dead on. Im a woman. Just chill ladies. We are not weak or helpless by allowing men to be kind.
Women will always have a special place in their hearts for guys who do these things–it’s called the friendzone.
Men do what women like. If women only ever dated men that followed this list, guys would put this up on their mirror. These things went away because women care more about hair gel and muscles.
Oh, dear. No, not all women care about those things. Quite a lot of us enjoy chivalry. The world says that we should be empowered and don’t need men beyond sperm donation. But I really love men, and their masculinity, with their protective nature. As a pig farmer, I’m strong and don’t need anyone to open doors or seat me in a chair. I simply like it. It makes me feel special, and I love my farmer even more for it.
Hair gel, done well, can make a guy look really great, but as far as I’m concerned, those six-pack abs look look like insect bellies.
Let’s do one “8 things we should bring back for women”
1. cooking
2. cleaning
3. staying at home to take care of the kids
…
lol
The one thing I loved was my ex helping put my coat on especialy in public. He was always good at dropping me off at the door when it was raining or walking on roadside, opening doors. I thanks a a stranger if they open any door for me. Just the other morning i followed a male co worker in the building he held the door open with every door and I thanked him everytime (BTW it was 7 doors we went thru). I think your right people need to better appreciate the kindness other show
I did not come into adulthood with much know-how in this (and my high school girlfriend would tell you I was often self centered and inconsiderate) …the good news is people can learn and people can change. I had a change from the inside out. God told me to look at people the way He looks at them. —and hey doesn’t He open doors all the time? I really really enjoy showing respect and kindness to women from 5 to 95. They seem to like it too most of the time. Only thing is some ladies are so suspicious that they think anyone being nice to them wants something. So on both sides–I say, men try to learn like I did…and women (not all of you) — enjoy being treated right, and/or get over yourself a little bit
Why should I offer a random woman my seat? She deserves to sit and I don’t? For the elderly, pregnant and disabled I’m happy to vacate at any time; but if princess wants a chair she should board more quickly.
As a matter of etiquette, if a person is in greater need of a space give the space. If I am walking in a group and I hit the door first – I open (usually a next door) opened by another – quid pro quo.
Bottom Line Courtesy should never be required, always presented, never demanded, yet always offered, and differed in the spirit it was given.
I agree wholeheartedly with all your concepts, but your tone betrays a certain amount of anger towards women.
The “Gard et’ Lieu” * – walk on the street side of the woman/girl/date/protectorate by the male is not a exact explanation of the rule. Medieval, and even Victorian streets lacked proper plumbing and sewage efforts. Most waste was worked down the common road. Much like Bourbon in the French Quarter of New Orleans on any day of they week. Back to the point, en lieu of plumbing, there where chamber pots, many many chamber pots at homes and inns that needed emptying. The most polite of the ‘tossers’ would yell Gard’de Lieu”. Simple Translation – “Guard from toilet sky Shit” in those days it came from all directions. I would need five full size umbrellas and a pair of slicker boots to walk those streets.
How about when I ask her to “pull my finger.” Does that qualify if I blast a loud one?
Why don’t you try it out and let us know how it goes?
Or men and women could just be on equal fronts. This is why chivalry is bs. It’s all catering to feminists and men who are catering to feminists.
Why is it so hard to understand that COURTESY does not compromise equality? That GRACE does not mean weakness? Those that respond that this is second nature in the South are right. We call it good manners. It’s not rape culture. It’s not lack of independence. It’s making someone you like comfortable. A gentleman practices little courtesies to demonstrate his caring and make you comfortable, and you accept gracefully in appreciation to make him comfortable. Sheesh!
THANK YOU!
James Michael…my take on this is more from the inner character, then the words he speak, and finally the deeds he does. I agree with you though that this type of man is a dying breed. See “The Chivalry Man” on Things I Love… http://sahiyena.wordpress.com/things-i-love
[…] This blog post from James Michael Shama, founder of the New Chivalry Movement (an endeavor I applaud whole-heartedly) has been making the rounds on my Facebook feed over the past few weeks. It’s great to see advice from one young man to another on being a gentleman. As a woman who spent most workday evenings standing on the DC metro during my four years commuting, while plenty of young, healthy men sat and stared at their phones, I’ve certainly experience firsthand that a good discussion on chivalry is long overdue, especially for my generation. […]
For the life of me I can’t find an article that lists what women can do to up the bar for men. But I’d really like to find one.
Reblogged this on angocynthia1.
Let’s amend a few of these, shall we?
1) Giving up your seat — is a great idea on public transit! But most of us women don’t need that. Save giving up your seat for the elderly, those who are injured or on a cane, and for pregnant women, whose feet are probably swollen
2) Pull out her chair — if you don’t, I doubt she’ll notice because she’s been pulling chairs out for herself all her life. If you do, you might make her feel uncomfortable because it’s an awkward move. Let’s forget this one, shall we?
3) Open doors — great idea! But not just for women. Do it for any companion you have, and maybe if there’s someone behind you going the same way, for them too. Everyone loves this courtesy and if there’s an inside door, they might hold it open for you as a “thanks”
4) Call/Don’t Text — Not going to go into this one because really, it’s up to the preferences of both parties. If you know she prefers texting to calling, text and vice versa.
5) Compliments — great idea! Everyone could use more compliments in their lives, especially adults, who might go months without hearing any. This shouldn’t be a “women-only” thing — make sure everyone important in your life knows you appreciate them!
6) Walk on street-side — streets are a lot cleaner these days. This seems unneccessary
7) Walk her to the door — I always suggest whenever dropping anyone off ever, wait until you know they’re inside before you’re driving off at the very least. It gives them a light from your car to see their door, they feel safer, and if they forgot their keys they can come back to the car instead of having to stand outside and wonder what they should do next.
8) Drop her off — I see this mostly being a good idea if the person you’re with (again, male or female) might be tired from previous walking, have heels, or if it’s overly cold or raining. I like to do this for friends in any of those cases.
My basic point here is that most of these courtesies are great to use on everyone, male or female, equally. If you think you’re being nice or are holding out to weird and outdated courtesies, ask yourself this — would I feel weird doing this for a good friend who was the same sex (or if you’re gay, opposite sex) as me? If so, it’s probably weird to do it for a woman in today’s more equal society.
Ugggh! Incredible sexism survives in the 21st century. These have nothing to do with what is between your legs–except between the ears of Neanderthals. 1, 2, 3, 6, & 7 — whoever is stronger should do that for whoever is weaker, period. Everyone should offer sincere compliments more often. WHOEVER is driving should drop another at the door. Why would anyone text an intimate conversation if they can talk?
Sorry…not sure what these things have to do with stronger or weaker, or sexism? Are you familiar with what the actual definition of sexism is? It has nothing to do with showing respect…
I’m afraid you’re the only one here implying any of these things have to do with physical strength or weakness, Jeff.
Thanks for your comment though, please accept my apology if I’ve misunderstood you at all.
Best,
– James
Wait, women are strong, independent and equal, right? Or are they more equal, so they deserve to be coddled and treated as weaker? No, that’s not it. Oh snap.
Women wanted feminism and they got it. I see no reason to do any of these traditional things for today’s “strong, independent woman” when women no longer do traditional things for men. The next time i see a woman in the side of the road with a flat tire I’ll keep on driving. After all, doesn’t “a woman need a man like a fish needs a bicycle?”
I will make exceptions for traditional, feminine women though. But she has to show me she’s a lady first – no tatoos, binge drinking, vulgar language and can cook.
I am married with two daughters. I still open doors for my wife, or any other female I encounter when entering buildings. I open the car door when arriving at the car, but don’t expect my wife to wait for me to walk around the car to open it for her when we arrive somewhere. I never walk in front of her. I pull out her chair for her when appropriate. I treat her with respect and love, and hope it shows my daughters what to look for in a man. I also treat waitresses with respect, or any other service worker for that manner. Everyone deserves respect. I can say, that even in NC, I get such wonderful reactions and thanks from women for simply opening doors for them. If a girl doesn’t like you for being nice, then she’s not the right girl.
I typically do most of the acts suggested in this article, and many times people seem surprised. Another article that should be written, (but I doubt anyone would take on the task), is what it means to honor and respect the significant men in a woman’s life, (Dad, husband, grandfather). Many are very quick to correct and even “beat up” on men for what they do and how they act. Most is well deserved. No one can be found to address the other side of this coin… I assume for the fear of “blow back” under the guise of being a liberated or independent woman.
I guess I’m pretty lucky! My guy has always done all those things from the first day we started dating…and I never had to ask, I was actually surprised and confused at first. Seven years later still my perfect gentleman!
i will do all these things if the lady in question has her virginity intact…thought not
May I ask, how exactly do you intend to discover whether or not the woman walking behind you is a virgin in order to be “worthy” of your manners, Mr. Smith?
Seems like an awfully…strict requirement.
Which begs the question: Is Mr. Smith a virgin, or he just likes double standards?
Agreed!!!
So, you would not hold a door open for a mother and her groceries? Or even your own mother? I wonder what possessed you to even read this article?
What does the “…thought not” at the end of your comment mean?
I was brought up surrounded by gentlemen. My father used to hold the doors for me before he got too old and then I would hold them for him. My brothers walk on the outside of the street walk, except when we cross the street, in which case they may switch to the side where cars come from. My male friends would walk me to the door. My friends in general would wait until I got inside the house before driving away. I do the same if I’m the one driving. The stronger one looks after the weaker. That’s what tells civilization from the chaos.
In 20 years the world changed. I’m also away from my family and from the places where I grew up. And I am told that chilvary is dead, that I shouldn’t expect it anymore, that I will be unhappy if I don’t settle for less.
Yes, I want it all and no, I won’t settle for less.
I want to be treated as equall, intelectually and as a person. I treat men as my equall, However, I don’t pretend to be the stronger phisically. I’m not. Generally speaking, women are not as strong as men – yes, please read ”generally speaking” to avoid misunderstandings. Yes, I can pull my chair. Yes, I can walk the distance, even in high heels. Yes, I can carry my own shopping bags or get my suitcase from the compartment above my seat. I can even pay for my own dinner. But I refuse to ”mate” with someone who doesn’t treat me as precious. And I cherish the man who treats as so.
Courtesy is respect. It makes you feel cared and comfortable and safe.
I’ve just found your blog, James. Congratulations and thank you. It made me believe the world is not all a jungle after all.
Youthful healthy men and women should both be taught to give up their seat for the elderly and disabled. It’s the right thing to do. ..and amen to being dropped at the door when wearing heels!
[…] our Facebook page. Recently we had some listeners talking about James Sama’s blog post about 8 Acts of Chivalry to Bring Back. Given that I’m writing this post right now, you just know I have a bone to pick with […]
“the more I realize that the gentleman is a rare breed.”
So are classy women. Both genders evolved together. These Male Feminist types who cozy up to women by chanting their “im a real gentleman, darlin” are just as phoney, if not worse. Opening doors is a common courtesy. Walking someone to a door is an excuse to spend more time with her. Giving up your seat? That should also be reserved for your elders. This isn’t a Men-Forget-How-To-Respect-Stuff issue, it’s a collective issue, both boys and girls alike. We tell girls to empower themselves to be confident, strong individuals, but then we dumb them down with this chivalry “crusade” like your’e somehow saving them from themselves. Quit the whinging and just be nice to each other. It’s called a relationship, not a relations pertaining to see how much a man can do to impress a women. Define Love, then reevaluate your plea for chivalry. They’ll sound different.
Our culture is laboring under almost a century of feminist agitprop, pushing for women to take what is properly the role of men. Women must allow men to be chivalrous by not getting in the way of their chivalry. Good men must be allowed to assume the roles of leadership and of protection that come naturally to them. Some, misguided by the culture (or lack thereof) of this age, consider that chivalry is somewhat sexist. That, of course, is ludicrous. To acknowledge that sexism is bad does not mean that there is no difference between the sexes. In fact, to deny this is not only to fight against unjust discrimination, but is to also deny the specific goods that can be found in the difference between male and female. Men and women are different. This is true on a biological, neurological, psycho-social, emotional, and spiritual level. Both men and women are equal in dignity, but we are certainly not the same. Chivalry is service. It trains men to appreciate the dignity of women, as people who are worth serving; people who are worth sacrificing for. On the broader picture, chivalry trains young boys to be real men; those who will see the needs of others, and use their strength to serve those in need. Women, too, need to get back in touch with their femininity, something that this culture downplays. Of course, most males of today’s generation ask for nothing more than to dump old traditions such as the etiquette of chivalry, and nothing could be more worrisome than finding women who actually support this undignifying trend.
@Extra – yes, yes, and more yes!
Fantastic comment.
I disagree with that.
There is nothing inherent in women that makes them more worth serving or sacrificing for than men.
Service and sacrifice work in two levels. People either do it for the ones they love, in which case it matters not their gender, or they do it for other people, in which case it matters not their gender.
I won´t become the servant or sacrifice myself for a random woman just because she´s a woman. I´ll do it because she has earned it or because I choose to do it because she´s a human, and I´d do it for any other human as well.
You´re still a sexist, albeit a benevolent one. Some women will love your point because it will put them in a pedestal and turn them into a princess maiden that should be served by the selfless white knight.
I am of equal worth as any woman. Any woman is of equal worth as any man. My life, integrity and well being are as important, and as a believer of equality, I refuse to put anyone below myself and to put myself below anyone.
Chivalry is inequality. Chivalry is sexism. That´s all I need to know.
The problem here is when people think doing a kindness for others makes them themselves subservient – there is no basis for this whatsoever.
Women show men respect in different ways than we show it to them. To promote chivalry is not to say that women have no responsibility towards the man in their life, or that they are superior to us, it is simply to just discuss the issue from a man’s perspective.
I have other articles on how women can be romantic and show appreciation towards their boyfriend/husband as well. While they are equally important, they are not equal in nature.
Men and women are different, as are how we show our appreciation to each other. There is no ‘better’ or ‘worse’ in that.
Not in my view. The problem is that you keep changing the language between comments to maintain your position.
The other commenter didn’t say doing a kindness, he explicitly said “as people who are worth serving; people who are worth sacrificing for”. Sacrificing for someone could be seen as heroic or selfless, but calling someone “worth serving” goes well beyond kindness.
Serving someone implies hierarchy, implies someone above and someone below, implies someone who is more worthy than the other, at least in the context of the relationship.
Taking into account what he said, saying that someone is worth serving does indeed “makes them themselves subservient”, to use your own words.
As I said in another comment, chivalry is not kindness, and using the two terms in an equivalent fashion is a way of muddling the argument. Kindness is not or should not be gender dependent. If you’re kind to women only because they’re women, and not to men, you’re putting men in a position where they deserve less or no kindness. Therefore inequality.
If, on the other hand, you’re kind to everyone, gender not withstanding, then it’s not chivalry. It’s you being a good person to other persons.
“To promote chivalry is not to say that women have no responsibility towards the man in their life, or that they are superior to us, it is simply to just discuss the issue from a man’s perspective”
But the thing is that chivalry is not directed to a specific woman, the “woman in your life”, if you will, but to all women. Either you don’t understand what chivalry is or I don’t. I’m going to this definition taken from wikipedia “Duties to women: this is probably the most familiar aspect of chivalry. This would contain what is often called courtly love, the idea that the knight is to serve a lady, and after her all other ladies. Most especially in this category is a general gentleness and graciousness to all women”.
Based on this, chivalry’s acts of “kindness” are extended to ALL women, not just the woman in your life.
Do you accept this as a definition of chivalry? I think this is important to this discussion since, from my perspective, you seem to be going back and forth between a definition of chivalry as kindness to the woman in your life and kindness to all and any woman.
“I have other articles on how women can be romantic and show appreciation towards their boyfriend/husband as well”
See what I mean? Are you promoting chivalry as in kind things you do to your wife/girlfriend/significant other? I don’t think so because in your original post you seem to imply that, for example, men should give their chair to any woman who’s standing. If that’s correct, the comparison you offer is flawed since you’re advocating kindness towards one specific special man with kindness to all women.
Are these women you mention romantic and appreciative towards all men, or only their boyfriend/husband?
“Men and women are different, as are how we show our appreciation to each other. There is no ‘better’ or ‘worse’ in that.”
Again, I agree with showing my appreciation and love to my girlfriend/wife, of course, provided that she does the same.
But why should I show this appreciation and love to the random woman standing on the bus? A woman who’s able bodied, young and not pregnant is standing there, and I’m sitting. Why does she have more of a right to the seat than I have?
I don’t know this woman, never seen her in my life, not my wife, not my girlfriend, not my friend, not my relative. Should I give her my seat? If so, why? Again, try to avoid using the words girlfriend, wife, love or romantic. This is a woman I don’t know, why should I give her my seat? I’m curious to see if you can offer a reason besides “because you’re a man and she’s a woman”.
I cant believe how this conversation has gotten so waaaayyy off! What the hell is everybody so upset about?! People can be so selfish. Why is it that if your kind or sacrifice some minor comfort (like giving up a seat) its implied that youre somehow beneath the beneficiary? People dont actually have to be “deserving” of an act of kindness for you to just be kind to them. How many of us are not really ” deserving” of someone being kind at times? Really… Most of the time if we all got what we”deserved” ,especially by the way we act,or attitudes,kindness probably wouldn’t even be a word. Somehow the world has come to the point of why would i do that for her/ him? They’re not better than me. Open your own door,nothing wrong with your hands. Being in a marrige or any successful relationship you will find serving each other will make for a much better time. Stop being so selfish. Ill only do it for you if you do it for me. Stupid. All that kind of attitude will get you is being alone or stuck with someone(spouse,girlfriend,boyfriend, friends,or family) that is just as nasty,mean and selfish as yourself. Grow up and get over yourselves! Geez!
“People can be so selfish. Why is it that if your kind or sacrifice some minor comfort (like giving up a seat) its implied that youre somehow beneath the beneficiary?”
Because it’s not being done out of desire to help but of obligation based on the genders. Because chivarly says that a man has to give his seat to a woman but not a woman to a man.
” People dont actually have to be “deserving” of an act of kindness for you to just be kind to them. How many of us are not really ” deserving” of someone being kind at times? ”
I don’t know about you, but I’m kind to people I meet without caring for their gender and help the ones I can, so I think I deserve the same kindness in return. If you feel undeserving, live with it or get help, but don’t project that on the rest of us.
“Most of the time if we all got what we”deserved” ,especially by the way we act,or attitudes,kindness probably wouldn’t even be a word”
Again, you’re projecting your own feelings on everybody else. If you have an attitude that precludes kindness, that’s your situation, not mine. Just compare the tone in your post with mine, and you might get an idea of the kind of attitude I’m talking about.
“Somehow the world has come to the point of why would i do that for her/ him? They’re not better than me. Open your own door,nothing wrong with your hands.”
Lol, please quote wherever I said that. What I actually said is “Kindness is not or should not be gender dependent. If you’re kind to women only because they’re women, and not to men, you’re putting men in a position where they deserve less or no kindness. Therefore inequality.”
Notice how I addresssed kindness regardless of gender. I have a problem with being force fed a “rule” that says I have to be kind to any random woman out there just because of her gender. Being kind is a decision, done out of shared humanity and desire to help anyone. I don’t know if you really are misunderstanding or just want to poison the well, but let me reiterate: I have no problem with being kind to PEOPLE. I do it and think it’s good and think everyone should do it. I have a problem with a rule that says MEN MUST BE KIND TO WOMEN, because that creates a rule that turns an act of kindness into an obligation based on the genders of two people. It also doesn’t create a reciprocal rule.
“Stop being so selfish. Ill only do it for you if you do it for me.” That’s not being selfish, that’s looking out for myself. I’m not going to be kind to people who don’t care about me and who would not do the same to be if they were in the same circumstances. They don’t even have to do it for me, but be willing to do it for others.
Under the rules of chivalry, a man is obligated to do things for women and the woman is not obligated to do anything for men. That’s inequality, and it surprises me why that concept is so hard to understand for some.
Honestly the feeling I get from this thread is that some women want to have their cake and eat it too. They want to be free from obligations and responsibilities but somehow foster them on men. They want to be free from gender roles but foster them on men.
Equality works all the time, when it benefits you and when it doesnt. That’s how it works. You don’t get to be equal sometimes and get privileges other times.
“Being in a marrige or any successful relationship you will find serving each other will make for a much better time”
Your sentence “Stop being so selfish. Ill only do it for you if you do it for me.” is in direct contradiction with this one. If it’s selfish to do things for others only i they’ll do it for you, then it’s selfish to talk about serving each other. According to your own logic, you should be serving your husband even if he doesn’t do anything for you. Do you do that?
“All that kind of attitude will get you is being alone or stuck with someone(spouse,girlfriend,boyfriend, friends,or family) that is just as nasty,mean and selfish as yourself.”:
A little tip for you, I don’t actually care if some random person on internet thinks I’m nasty mean or selfish. I just care that you’re making a really poor argument, compounded now with the appeal to consequences fallacy. Also notice that your doing the same thing I talked about in my last comment, going from chivalry which is doing things for all women to kind things done for spouses, friends or family.
I’ll ask you too, what’s your definition of chivalry? who should be chivalrous towards whom and why?
In your view, are kindness and chivalry synonims?
“Grow up and get over yourselves! Geez!”
Said by the woman yelling and insulting people on a forum in response to a polite rational comment.
Really? Stop it. My pount is theres nothing wrong with being kind to people even if it is because its a woman or because its an older person or whatever. My husband can wash his own clothes or fix his own food. The person behind me can open the door for themselves. I can open my own car door. But im not beneath my husband or anyone else or vise versa because i choose to have good manners. Im not stirring the pot. Im simply saying this article that is about doing kind things for a lady has gone bananas. A lot of the ladies going off about being independent modern women who dont NEED a man to open a door by god! And a lot a men going off about doing it just cause its a woman! Its not the law or anything….but is it gonna kill ya?!
“My pount is theres nothing wrong with being kind to people even if it is because its a woman or because its an older person or whatever.”
It is when it’s not a choice but an imposition. It is when the woman is just as young, healthy and able bodied as the man in the seat and she’s expected to get kindness from him for no reason other than her gender.
“My husband can wash his own clothes or fix his own food. The person behind me can open the door for themselves. I can open my own car door. But im not beneath my husband or anyone else or vise versa because i choose to have good manners”
Choose is the operating word here. Your version of chivalry would be saying you have to open the door for every man that’s behind you, but not for every woman. Would you like that?
“Im simply saying this article that is about doing kind things for a lady has gone bananas”
No it hasn’t, the point is why doing kind things for a lady but not for a man? The problem many people here have, including me, is that the article is putting a class of people as recipients of kindness instead of putting all people there. Tell me, why are “ladies” more worthy of receiving kindness than “gentlemen”? Why should a man be kind to ladies but not to other men? Shouldn’t women be kind to everyone too?
“And a lot a men going off about doing it just cause its a woman! Its not the law or anything….but is it gonna kill ya?!”
It’s not going to kill me, but it’s going to bother me because we’re in an age when women want equality but also want special privileges. It bothers me because it posits a rule where I’m expected to do kind things to women but they’re not expected to do kind things back.
Why aren’t women chivalrous towards men? Is it gonna kill them?
Men arent taught to be chivalrous because women arent equal. Theyre taught it because its kind and mannerable. Nobody is forcing any kind of agenda on anyone. And most women are” chivalrous” to men,only in different ways. Most men would be uncomfortable with a lady doing these things(at least doing them all the time). Just because we are now seen as equals doesnt mean we arent different. Like i said maybe its because im from the south these things are very common for men to do and very appreciated by women. Crazy thing is (generally) nobody is feeling belittled or less equal or more or less of a woman or any less of a man because of it. Crazzy huh… oh just to share; i was very pleased with my 10yr old for offering his seat to a lady who came to the kindergarten play late and had to stand. He told her “its fine its just my crybaby brother anyway” Lol
Yes. Maybe it is the south. On a trip to NY last yr my husband was actually cursed at by two ladies for holding the door, and another lady kept giving him a wary look ( like she was afraid he was gonna muder her or something) as she walked thru a door held for her. Even looking over her shoulder as she walked on. Also my hubby calls all women,who appear to be older than him, ma’am,and even the younger ladies if our waitress or working behund a counter. One waitress told him” my name is Angela,not ma’am!” What?! I was shocked a little confused and very dismayed. He just chalked it all up to being a northerner…
Jackie you’re right, ma’am, the south has been a model of tolerance for generations.
Nope.
Plenty of polite people all over the country so don’t cloud the issue. And what’s this bizarre nonsense about telling people to grow up? It’s a conversation.
The author originally shames most men, announcing that good men just don’t exist anymore, uh uh uh i mean, sooomme are good. It’s just a way to proclaim to the world that you’re awesome (him) and the rest are just regular ol’ slobs.
I do all the things he worships. Open doors, small respectful gestures and so on. The conversation evolved into service, even though one commenter called it service, and the author agreed, but said it was not a service, and then we were left with the mess to clean up. Just imagine me expecting a woman to serve me, so to speak. I do small gestures and she makes small sammiches. I pull out chairs and she folds my socks.
If the world is really the way you think it is, all the northern marriages would end in divorce, all your southern marriages would last 65 years, and the mid-west and west coast would be left wondering why we categorized people by the part of the country they live, and then try to figure out why we assign gender roles, break gender norms, then expect only one gender to carry on traditions. My overall point in my original post is.. lets just be nice to each other without this waaaah, chivalry is deeeaaaaad cheerleader stuff. The world is different, so lets not act surprised. Men can still be chivalrous without having it shamed upon us with whining. And don’t expect the world to change without chivalry slightly evolving too.
First of all i dont think the author is “shaming” anyone or proclaiming the hes Gods gift to women and all others are horrible. Just because he says these are good and valiant things to do for a lady(which they are)doesnt mean he thinks you should be tarred and feathered if you dont. And yes we have ignorant intolerant people here just like aywhere else( being a black woman from a very small town married 13 yrs to a white man and having two biracial children,i know some intolerance is everywhere). All the statements you are implying i said about divorces and marriages etc are ridiculous and untrue. I was simply giving an example of how ive personally NEVER experienced a person actually being that rude when showed a kindness anywhere ive been in the south. Nobody ever said you HAVE to be chivalrous. Its not a crime not to be. Here, it is expected and appreciated. No matter how the world “evolves” good manners and kindness will never be phased out. Why peolpe are so up in arms about it is beyond me. I just think its weird that some people are sooo against it. Noone has to do it,but what in the world is so darned bad about it?
@Extra tempore
Love it, love everything about it. I’m voting you for president.
For the record:
Altair, I understand your argument (hard not to when it is so flawlessly presented!) and agree with pretty much everything you have said.
What I liked in Extra’s post was the acknowledgement that men and women are different. I think when we go around promoting gender equality we think that we are somehow changing this fact. We are different in terms of the roles that we play within the family.. Under the threat of physical violence from another man, what man would turn to his woman and say “You fight him honey we’re equal now”? This will just never happen..
Yes yes and YES! Well said.
Yes X1000
Why would a young Man to even consider these things in the land of No Fault Divorce, Lifetime Alimony and Child Support? When he has watched his Father cut from his life while the Mother brags about it and receives checks due to being single? I just think modern day chivalry would be as realistic as slaves thanking the master for a whipping…
Yes I think it would be wonderful if men would behave like this again, but in the same breathe I would like to add that ladies need to start behaving like ladies again as well. Just my opinion.
obviously I meant breath not breathe.
What an Ass…..spending a lot of time alone these days??!!
[…] http://jamesmsama.com/2014/02/01/8-acts-of-chivalry-to-bring-back/ […]
[…] I discuss calling and not texting a date invite in 8 Acts Of Chivalry To Bring Back. […]
chiv·al·ry [shiv-uhl-ree]
noun, plural chiv·al·ries for 6.
1. the sum of the ideal qualifications of a knight, including courtesy, generosity, valor, and dexterity in arms.
2. the rules and customs of medieval knighthood.
3. the medieval system or institution of knighthood.
4. a group of knights.
5. gallant warriors or gentlemen:
chivalry (ˈʃɪvəlrɪ)
— n , pl -ries
1. the combination of qualities expected of an ideal knight, esp courage, honour, justice, and a readiness to help the weak
2. courteous behaviour, esp towards women
3. the medieval system and principles of knighthood
4. knights, noblemen, etc, collectively
[C13: from Old French chevalerie, from chevalier ]
‘chivalric
— adj
Two sets of defintions from dictionary.reference.com, since wikipedia tends to written by whomever is feeling the fancy.
As a woman, I see nothing wrong with chivalry. By all accounts, I am chivalrous too. A readiness to help the weak is not a fault in my eyes, and neither is courteous behavior towards women. That doesn’t have to imply that all that are weak are women, or that all women are weak. Can’t you just be friendly and get on with it? Can’t we all just get along?
Be courteous, or not. Be in a relationship, or not. Seek a companion, or not. What does it matter than some random man that we may never meet in the flesh wants to behave like a gentleman? Or what he perceives to be a gentleman? Maybe he wants to grow up to be a knight.
Maybe we should all quit judging, judgers, jeesh.
I completely agree. I just dont see how it could be seen as a bad thing like some of the commenters seem to think. Chivalry is definitely appreciated. And definitely not something id discourage anyone to stop doing or instilling in the character of our children.
“and neither is courteous behavior towards women”
The main question is why courteous behavior towards women instead of towards everyone? that´s the point that bothers me, and I suspect that bothers most of the people here against chivalry.
Have you noticed how you´re the first person who has taken the time to define what chivalry means to them? I think it´s because a definition would force them to use the same definition for the whole conversation and keep them from going from chivalry as kindness towards women and kindness towards everyone.
Using your second definition, I agree with sub-definition 1 but not with sub-definition 2. Why single out women as the worthy recipients of kindness instead of just being kind to everyone?
“By all accounts, I am chivalrous too. A readiness to help the weak is not a fault in my eyes” no, helping the weak is not a fault, as long as you don´t categorize the weak …. ” neither is courteous behavior towards women” which you just did right here.
The problem with this article, as I told james a while ago, is that when people hear chivalry, they usually understand sub-definition 2. James’ OP actually defines kind action towards women. In the eyes of people who believe in equality, giving special treatment to someone because of their gender is inequality, even if this treatment is positive.
Altair,
Chivalry doesn’t just extend to women. The word describes a set of vows that knights took to protect the weak and guard the honour of fellow knights.
In this historical context, men dressed in armour, trained for war, vs the elderly, women and children, people living a monastic life, impoverished etc, are all in a comparatively weak position to those knights.
This article about chivalry is frankly a little limited in what it describes and only covers a few manifestations that we all already know about.
But no man holding a door for a woman ever did so because he believed she might struggle to open it herself. Ironically the opposite may be true when he holds it for someone who is disabled, elderly or a child – yet is there anything wrong with that?
What makes me really sad is that some (not all) feminists get so unpleasant about men being considerate toward them in specific circumstances, especially when they wouldn’t if it was another woman in place of the man. This, in fact, is actively sexist because it presumes a lot of the man’s intentions and opinions of the person he is assisting. Presumptions which will almost certainly be entirely false.
And the funny thing is, being unable to see such simple acts as anything other than politeness or kindness is more reflective of the negative attitude of the receiver than of the gentle consideration of the doer.
G
Thank you so much for saying this. Its exactly what ive been trying to say. Maybe your saying it so simply and eloquently will get a better response. Lol
Graeme, point number 2 in the quoted definition says
“2. courteous behaviour, esp towards women”.
Wikipedia mentions “Duties to women: this is probably the most familiar aspect of chivalry. This would contain what is often called courtly love, the idea that the knight is to serve a lady, and after her all other ladies. Most especially in this category is a general gentleness and graciousness to all women.”
But even if it wasn’t so, please quote any part of the original post that says what women should do for men or even men for other men. Quote one point that DOESN’T say “do X for women”. Then I’ll agree with your definition. Just one. Find me one that says “open doors for him”, or “stand up when he enters the room”.
“Chivalry doesn’t just extend to women. The word describes a set of vows that knights took to protect the weak and guard the honour of fellow knights.”
Of course there are other definitions of chivalry, which include protecting the innocent, living by a code and serving your lord. Now tell me how those definitions are being applied here. If the original article said “open the door for those with their hands full” or “give up your seat for the elderly, disabled or pregnant”, you might have a point. What you’re doing is exactly what I’ve been telling from my first comment, you’re trying to use a definition that is NOT BEING USED IN THE ORIGINAL ARTICLE to get out of the problem that all of these (new) chivalry rules apply to men doing things for women.
Again, if you can show me how the definition of chivalry you’re giving applies to the rules especified in the article, I’ll go with it. Otherwise, you might want to find information about the “equivocation fallacy”.
This one goes for Graeme and all the people here saying chivalry is just kindness or an honor code for knights:
“Equivocation (“to call by the same name”) is classified as an informal logical fallacy. It is the misleading use of a term with more than one meaning or sense (by glossing over which meaning is intended at a particular time). It generally occurs with polysemic words (words with multiple meanings).”
Now after reading this, please show me how James’ original post is using chivalry in the sense of a code of honor telling us how medieval knights should behave instead of the more common and modern meaning of showing politeness, respect and kindness to women based on their gender.
Thank you, Isabeau. Chivalry is about kindness and respect. And these can be given to whomever, whether the recipient is male or female, rich or poor, healthy or ill, whole or disabled. Some of the arguments given above are from the point of view of obligation, or a duty one MUST perform. Nonsense! The whole movement of chivalry is, in reality, a demonstration of a person’s heart — and therefore his/her actions are an outflow of that heart. Chivalry is a choice, and I choose to demonstrate it. To whomever these demonstrations are received, it is up to them whether or not to be offended. And if they ARE offended, it is an indication of THEIR heart, not mine.
I raised my son this way and he is now married to the love of his life. He still does these things for her everyday. He opens every door for her and always shows her the respect. i think thats why she loves him so much.. I’m lucky to have a son like that and a beautiful daughter in law that loves my son.. Raise you kids right male or female !
I agree with everything, EXCEPT calling women. I love calling women, texting is not my strong-suit. However, most of the time when I get a lady’s number and call, they never pick up. I always leave a voicemail too that ends on a call to action like, “call me back sometime, I’d love to continue our conversation.” You’d think that’d work, but women really DO prefer texting. I’ll wait a day or 2 and call the lady again, no answer, yet the moment I text—she’ll swiftly reply. I’m surprised most women prefer text over the sound a man’s voice, whom they fancy.
to Altair:
To serve another is to accept second place for yourself. Period. End. Of. Story. I serve because I was served by HIM. It is my christian obligation, of which I take with great honor–regardless of Man, Women, or Child. You are a child of God, therefore I serve. This is not complicated, it requires acceptance–by which acceptance is not meted list. This is the modern problem–service to others is not too common, anymore…But hey it was written long ago that it was a problem…
Good day, sir! (an act of chivalry)
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I realize men mean well when they pull our seats out, but many women like me really dislike it. . I can never manage trying to push my seat back in when sitting down at the same time. Having someone try to help push me back in while I am trying to sit makes it worse. I always worry I am going to fall. Somehow, I can manage to sit much better when I pull my own seat out just enough but not too much. If you really feel you need to do this, why not offer with a simple “May I?” I will be perfectly honest and thank you for the gesture but say no, I prefer to do it myself so I don’t fall. Try role reversal one time and see what I mean.
Chivalry is dead, and women killed it.
“I deserve to make as much as you, but pay for my dinner.”
“It’s not just my job to raise the children, now give me the kids and half of everything you own.”
“I can wear whatever I want so stop starring at my chest.”
What’s that they say about having your cake and eating it too? Oh, yeah, that women have been doing it for centuries.
My mother told me many years ago never to date a man who wouldn’t/didn’t hold doors for me. 🙂 My husband holds doors for me, older people, even other guys sometimes. I hold doors for older people, people with their hands full, parents with kids. It’s about being nice. If someone doesn’t appreciate a helpful/nice gesture, that says more about them than it does about me.
I hold doors for everyone, as we all should. It doesn’t matter if they’re female/male, old/young, hands full/empty; it’s a common courtesy that should be extended to all.
And if you don’t acknowledge it when somebody does this for you then you’re a jerk.
I feel immensely grateful to be dating a gentleman. They do exist, ladies! I would call myself a feminist; I’m a former Marine and view myself as independent and strong. My man doesn’t open the door for me because I can’t do it myself, and I don’t feel remotely insulted when he treats me like a lady. If a man shows he is being thoughtful and considerate of you, and you bristle over it, you are denying yourself the simple joy of people being kind to each other.
Women have to decide what they want. @Amy Decker: How can you be a feminist and support this?
Either men and women are equal in salary, rights and obligations or they’re not.
Why men have to give their seats to women? Because women are weaker and can’t stand up for long periods of time?
Are women that weak they can’t walk from the parking spot to the venue?
Are women damsels in distress that need a man-shield between them and the world (street)?
The compliment and calling thing are standard human psychology that works with any gender to maintain good relationships, but could be used both ways.
Opening the door should also go both ways, whoever got first the door holds it. Again, just human psychology of showing courtesy to another person.
But I agree, it seems the smarter men pretend to dig the feminist thing while continuing the domination in subtle ways like this and others. This way they get what they want without dealing with much annoyance.
I would be curious if your anti-chivalry mindset applies to the elderly too since they have already proven they can survive without our help. Obviously the frail would be needing courtesy extended to them such as seating, dropping them off nearer a venue, etc. But what about those who are not frail? The super-grandparents, if you will. Do we respect them for any inherent reason and show it with these forms of respect or do we ditch the form and say, “I’ll respect you by ignoring the differences between us and pretend you are my peer.”
Dear Guy,
I feel so sorry for you. I hear anger and perhaps even hatred in your reply. Please reread James’ post again and reconsider.,,
Jan, you have not addressed his arguments. Only made the assumption that they stem from a past insecurity of his. Such is not the basis for intellectual discussion.
“Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference” Mark Twain
This article is about showing respect and appreciating someone. How does that mean the object of that appreciation/respect should have a lower salary, fewer rights, and different obligations? This respect/appreciation goes both ways, it is simply manifested in different ways, and this article dealt with one facet. This is not about women being damsels in distress, or weak. It’s about them being valued. Men should be valued too, it’s just that many of them often prefer to have a sandwich rather than have a door opened for them! Or they rather be allowed time to watch their favorite team rather than having priority for the seats on the bus!
What the heck is wrong with MUTUAL pampering, and how does that make anyone weak or dominated? It’s simply two people showing that the other is important to them.
This article is not about women’s abilities, it’s about their standards. What they’re willing to accept, and what caliber of man they’re looking for. There’s nothing wrong with stepping away from traditional gender roles, as long as it’s acceptable to both parties… but women shouldn’t be berated for appreciating someone who values them. THAT’s sexist!
What you describe here is real feminism. Everyone should be doing ll of these thing to eachother because that is nice. And you’re right, men shouldn’t have to give up their seats because women aren’t weak. Thank you!
[…] He definitely opens my car door and walks me to the door… he’s very chivalrous like that. […]
In Europe we have side walks. Women in groups of 2 or more always take up the whole width regardless of how much space they have between them and ignore single oncoming people like children, elderly or men, and even in the pathways of the underground they walk in the middle of the busiest paths to hold up people behind them. What about those women flashing their handbags or sunglasses or even mascara on their eye brows (!) as if that would make them more important and real and smart and beautiful. We know it’s exactly the opposite, it is just really irritating, because deliberate deception only proves one has no understanding of self respect and respect toward nature and other people! Sometimes I feel there are important parts missing in a woman’s body, either the brain or the heart (yes, in men too!). Why ignore other people when we are all sharing a path? And what do you think of mothers ordering their kids not to speak to their other 50% of their genetic heritage (i.e. their father), surely this cannot help to build an integrated and balanced character? Who chose to get close to the father in the first place, and now wants to shut out that part of their own personality? Or when a mum threatens her kids not to ever use their right of self determination ever ever and manipulates them this way with feeding tactics, and spends her money on booze instead of buying basic clothes for her children as earmarked by her husband and family? still not missing a brain or a heart or both?? Some women take these tips here for granted and give nothing in return, gobbling up every little bit of comfort and attention, yet being overwhelmed or impressed by the very guys who see through them and take advantage of them. If instead you see through them and try to help, you’re being dragged into a blackhole of quicksand from which you won’t get out without losing something important and you won’t ever get back the time or respect you once had. This is why I discontinued holding doors open for people and making genuine compliments to women as I just cant compliment on mascara or flashy things, it’s always overrated by others with their distorted reality (yes mine is now too). I only show respect for the elders (no, not children because then may be flagged a a paedophile) but then I am very uncomfortable as to how vulnerable they are and seek to build alliances or bring me home to meet their daughters, whose fiances their not happy with; well that’s not my problem. I am just being nice and don’t want to be taken advantage of, why can I not expect that in return?!
Where has all are values gone,I am 65 years old and I don’t know how we changed so much in this country,now days the morals have gone down completely.We had respect for everybody old,young,male ,female.Now we see young panhandlers on every busy street,some need it others as a second income.Women are found every day dead,drugs being made,home invasions,when I was a child we slept on are front porch , now we lock are doors and stay inside.Now Men marry Men, Women marry Women.Now women don’ t need men to be fathers, they just have children by them.Women have tattoo’s all over & pericings.We had milkman that came once a week and came in the house and put milk in are icebox.Manners where learned at school & home,kids learned how to sew,cook,set a proper table and now they don’t even have family discussions,kids just go to there rooms play games or tv. Kids learned proper grooming,hair ,brushing teeth,dressing.
They learned how to open doors for girls & such.Now days girls don’t cross there legs.Some where we went wrong !
[…] 8 Acts Of Chivalry To Bring Back | James Michael Sama I was a little surprised that someone thinks these need to be brought back. does anyone NOT do these? […]
My father was much older than my mother when they married and therefore he was what would be considered “old school.” I was his only child and a daughter nonetheless and, of course, wanted nothing but the very best for me. At a very young age, he taught me to behave like a lady and to never accept anything less than a gentleman. My father always looked and carried himself as a gentleman and I admired that very much. Although he passed away when I was still very young, his words stayed with me. I accept nothing less than a chivalrous gentleman and that is the type of man that truly attracts me. It is ridiculous that today those qualities are rare. Even more disappointing is that some women don’t desire these qualities, but look for more superficial aspects. So, yes, please bring chivalry back!
[…] I discuss calling and not texting a date invite in 8 Acts Of Chivalry To Bring Back. […]
It is so sad to me that anyone would speak against chivalry. I was taught at a very young age to respect my fellow person. Young or old, male or female. Opening doors, pulling out chairs, and giving up your seat are things done out of respect. Not some under handed plot to rule the opposite sex. It pains me greatly when I hold a door for someone of the younger generation and get a blank or even negative reaction in return. It makes me realize how large of a disconnect we have with humanity now a day’s. I don’t think these traits are just being over looked… I feel as though they are being spoken against. I don’t know what it would take to make people turn back to respecting one another but whatever it is I hope we can figure it out. The topic at hand is chivalry but the root of is diminishment is way deeper than the subject at hand. Respect is really the root of it. And respect is all but lost in today’s world. A prime example is the lady that dropped her hairbrush out of her purse walking in in front of me the other day. I picked it up and quick stepped it to catch up to her, catch her attention and return the brush to her. When I got her turn acknowledge me her immediate response was not thank you, but instead, why do have my brush… I actually felt foolish for trying to do a nice thing. Yet, I refuse to let the negativity of others turn my attitude negative. Hopefully the time I took to type this will improve at least one persons outlook on life and respect towards others.
That’s why when people do those things I say thank you, even if they do it out of their way and it becomes awkward for me. I think that it is important to not fall back into our default setting of it being about ourselves. If we feel that a gesture is awkward we should still think of the other person. We should be thankful that they are thinking about us, even if it is culturally different than what we are used to.
I’m glad that you returned her brush though and are trying not to let the negativity get to you. Her was response sounds inconsiderate of you trying to help her out, but I’m sure she realized that later on. Either that, or she was just trying to imply that she’s not sure how it fell out of her purse.
You just confirmed mine. Keep being chivalrous. It can never be bad.
I reject a lot of these things, I don’t think it is because I’m a woman. It’s just that as an individual, a lot of these things don’t seem necessary. I feel most strongly about number 5 and 8.
1. I don’t like sitting in public places. I do a lot of sitting at home and at work, and any given chance of the day I want to stand up. Especially in rocking buses and trains. I think it is fun. It’s fine for people to offer it, but don’t take it personally if the woman says “no, thanks”. If I was elderly, then yeah, I’d be nice if I couldn’t stand– but… wouldn’t I be in a wheel chair?
2. Pulling out my chair is weird. My argument here is that I don’t see the significance unless it is difficult to do that myself. So, if I was elderly I’d see it as an act of kindness. If it is me as I am now… I still say thank you, but inside me I feel it is awkward and unnecessary. I don’t tell them because I don’t want them to feel bad that they did it.
3. Same as argument 2. I’ll open the door for people if they are nearing the door behind me, especially if their hands are full. And others do the same. I figured this is normal. Not an act of chivalry. When it is obvious that it is an act of chivalry (because they go out of their way to do it,) then it is awkward because I’m perfectly capable of opening it myself.
4. I hate holding up the phone to my head. I don’t care what your intention is. 🙂
5. I like compliments, yes, but I know that I’m pretty. Let’s have it be about “us” and not me. I’d rather much enjoy your company and whatever we are doing that is entertaining us, than knowing that your constantly thinking of me. Tell me what you thought about the movie, was it fun? Stupid? Why? Just telling me that you love me at the end of the day is enough for me. Even then, the time spent with me speaks for itself!
6. Walking on the street side of the sidewalk, I personally like this one just because it is a safety concern. Back where I live there aren’t that many sidewalks and the side of the street is very narrow.
7. This one I will agree to since I’m tiny, and a 10 year old boy could beat me up.
8. I hate this one the most. My mom is always dropped off to the front by my dad. I’d rather walk WITH MY HUSBAND! I’ll miss walking when I’m old and can’t. Let’s spend those precious moments together, even if we have to walk all the way from the farthest point of the parking lot. I always park far away from the front even if there is no one around just to get more walking in my day.
Don’t ruin it for the rest of us. It’s great to be a feminist be really this us a site about chivalry. Go else where. To post.
[…] many acts of chivalry can help to show someone you care for them, they are just that – acts. It is possible for […]
[…] lovers and try to achieve the best versions of ourselves and encourage our lovers to do the same. According to Sama we should bring back some of the respectful acts in order to reinvest in chivalry … How many men do you think will give up their seat to a woman on the train or bus? The answer is one […]
You all have Over thought this. This is what is wrong with this world today. It comes down to just being nice to everyone. Thats it!!!!! If you love someone show them in the small ways. If you are dating someone and want to keep dating them make them feel special in the little things. Most girls want to feel special and most guys want to feel like a knight. Thats the way it is. JUST BE NICE!!!!!
[…] – words are only words. Actually stepping up and performing small acts of kindness or some of these acts of chivalry to bring back is what will really make a difference in the […]
[…] Some of these ideas take more planning than others, but the happiness of the person you love is worth it. Looking for smaller, everyday things you can do all the time? Check out 8 Acts Of Chivalry To Bring Back. […]
[…] it means still performing small chivalrous acts, or slightly more elaborate romantic gestures, it’s important that these things don’t […]
I usually do not leave many remarks, but after reading through a few of
the comments on 8 Acts Of Chivalry To Bring Back | James Michael Sama.
I actually do have a couple of questions for you if it’s allright.
Could it be only me or do a few of these comments come across as if they are
coming from brain dead visitors? 😛 And, if you are posting at additional online sites, I’d like to follow you.
Could you list of every one of all your social networking pages like your Facebook page, twitter feed, or linkedin profile?
Outstanding story there. What happened after? Take care!
comes a time
This woman just got tired of being punished for the “apparent”actions of others of her gender.
Used as an excuse to Not be the “best man you can be”.. it is a Sad excuse.
We are not all man haters.. Some of us Like Men who are not afraid to be Men. The LAST thing I want is to have the balls in the relationship…
Hence I will remain single.
Men and Women BOTH need to Get Real and stop with the b.s. Excuses not to just be the Best person you can be.
btw I found some of the Venus/Mars books helpful ..
Ditto.
[…] Need some suggestions? Here are 8 acts of chivalry to bring back. […]
For those complaining it’s sexist and women don’t deserve any special treatment, let me just tell you when I am with a chivalrous man he makes me feel special, more feminine, happier and it makes ME want to do things for him. Win-win for everybody.
Yeah I feel the same. You get our what you put in
What is the women supposed to bring back doing? Anything?
Plenty of things, Joe. Relationships are of course a two way street. There are plenty of articles on here on that topic. One of which can be found here: http://jamesmsama.com/2014/02/24/10-ways-for-her-to-be-romantic/.
Thanks for reading!
Women have never left. We still wash your clothe cook and clean and raise the kids. Most of us make most money now to. What else do you want. ?
At this time it appears like WordPress is the preferred blogging platform available rigvht now.
(from what I’ve read) Is that what you aree using on your blog?
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[…] If you want to be proactive and take it a step further, make sure to practice these acts of chivalry most men have lost sight of. […]
[…] Small acts like opening a door or pulling out a chair were a sign of class and respect. Some parts of chivalry may be rooted in old-school chauvinism where men did things for women because they weren’t perceived as doing it themselves, but no longer. I believe we can bring the good aspects of being chivalrous into the modern era and leave behind the negatives. […]
[…] Small acts like opening a door or pulling out a chair were a sign of class and respect. Some parts of chivalry may be rooted in old-school chauvinism where men did things for women because they weren’t perceived as doing it themselves, but no longer. I believe we can bring the good aspects of being chivalrous into the modern era and leave behind the negatives. […]
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Amy Decker nailed it. “the simple joy of being kind to each other” that is the essential nature of it. Kindness. If you don’t feel it in your heart to do it, then don’t. By all means, keep that seat. There is nothing in this article at all about being subservient, or that “women will love it because it because it will make them feel such and such a way”. No. That is something the reader brought. Kindness, civility, respect. These are dying in our culture – replaced with crass, rude, boorish behaviour on the part of both sexes. The author proposes some simple suggestions for men to bring them back.
There is nothing more pleasant, or refreshing, as a polite, kind, gentleman.
My partner thinks chivalry means how well he rides my horses!!! Love your version Would live him to see. Especially with his unkept long hair I think is to bring him into the mid evil ages.
If you do any of these things – and as an older man I have had the chagrin of being offered a seat by a young lady – it is a sign that you are looking at your surroundings and connecting – thinking of others and how they would appreciate being treated. It is not a war of the sexes thing – it is about quite simply being aware of the possible needs of others and recognising that our own contentment stems as much as anything else from being at ease with those around us. To do that we have to connect.
Yes! Thanks for the great comment Andrew. Couldn’t have said it better myself.
James, thanks for the kind words. As for words, the words Gentleman and Gentlelady have connotations beyond class – very simply – a man or a lady who is gentle in thought, word, writing and deed.
Being a gentleman is something I really have based my life on. I feel as though all men should be respectful and act like gentlemen. Men should really act like gentlemen towards their ladies but also toward others as well. I really enjoyed reading this post.
Love this
[…] Some of these ideas take more planning than others, but the happiness of the person you love is worth it. Looking for smaller, everyday things you can do all the time? Check out 8 Acts Of Chivalry To Bring Back. […]
[…] car, opening doors, pulling out her chair, and yes – paying for the date. You may think that basic acts of chivalry are just common sense, but unfortunately they are lacking, more often than […]
I don’t wanna start World War III. Let’s just all be friends and agree to disagree with me, kay? 🙂
When a guy is courteous to a woman, we call it chivalry. When a woman is courteous to a guy, we call it common courtesy. Nobody said that supporting chivalry meant you couldn’t go the other way round. It just has a different name.
If a guy opens the door for a the woman behind him, it’s chivalry. If a guy offers his seat to a lady on the train, it’s chivalry.
If a lady offers her seat to a gentleman on a train, it’s common courtesy. If a lady holds the door for the man behind her, it’s common courtesy.
I live in a rural place and have never ridden on public transportation, but I do hold doors, smile, say please and thank you, and try to be a lady to people- gentleman and other ladies alike. I can count the number of times a man has held the door for me- like actually held it, not stopped in the door and kept it half open with two fingers while looking over his shoulder- on one hand. I can count the number of times a woman has held the door for me with half of one hand.
I would feel special and appreciated if a man pulled out my chair for me. No one has ever done it, but it might be novel if someone would give it a try someday. On the other hand, I doubt severely that any of the guys I know would feel appreciated if I pulled their chair our for them (unless there’s a reason, I mean, women feel special when you do it for no real reason. If a guy was hurt or tired or whatever, I’m sure he would appreciate it very much).
No one said women were supposed to not be nice to men. But it’s just a different name is all. Yeah, many guys don’t act the gentleman anymore, but I think there’s even less women who act the lady.
For every girl who smiles genuinely and thanks you for holding the door, there’s another who wants to kick you where it counts and set you on fire. You take your life into your hands, being chivalrous to a lady, sometimes, but I think it’s worth it. I know some guys give me really odd looks when I hold doors open and allow them to enter first. I just smile an pretend it’s normal.
You can’t please all of the people all of the time. Whatever. I’d like to think I’m a lady, and I hope there are a few gentleman left.
For the record, a gentleman is also supposed to be gentlemanly to other gentleman too. Just…. not by bringing up the car or sharing an umbrella. Just like ladies are supposed to be nice to other ladies. Let’s just all be nice. How about that?
hi
I always do my best to open a door for a lady. What’s frustrating is not being given the chance. When together, I always offer to drive. I open the car door, let her get in then close it and go to the driver’s side. At a restaurant it is just appropriate to pull out the chair. The true art is sliding it back underneath her when she adjusts. Make plans, let her order first. Stand up when she excuses herself, stand up when she returns. Walk her to her destination, offer her your coat if it’s cold. Southern tradition.
[…] Small acts like opening a door or pulling out a chair were a sign of class and respect. Some parts of chivalry may be rooted in old-school chauvinism where men did things for women because they weren’t perceived as doing it themselves, but no longer. I believe we can bring the good aspects of being chivalrous into the modern era and leave behind the negatives. […]
[…] Small acts like opening a door or pulling out a chair were a sign of class and respect. Some parts of chivalry may be rooted in old-school chauvinism where men did things for women because they weren’t perceived as doing it themselves, but no longer. I believe we can bring the good aspects of being chivalrous into the modern era and leave behind the negatives. […]
[…] Small acts like opening a door or pulling out a chair were a sign of class and respect. Some parts of chivalry may be rooted in old-school chauvinism where men did things for women because they weren’t perceived as doing it themselves, but no longer. I believe we can bring the good aspects of being chivalrous into the modern era and leave behind the negatives. […]
Dumb. Chivalry is dead and women killed it. Want me to open your door? Then put your damn phone away. Want me to pull out your chair? Then don’t ask me how much money I make a year. Want me to walk on the street side? Then wipe that smug look off your face and be a lady.
[…] This blog post from James Michael Shama, founder of the New Chivalry Movement (an endeavor I applaud whole-heartedly) has been making the rounds on my Facebook feed over the past few weeks. It’s great to see advice from one young man to another on being a gentleman. As a woman who spent most workday evenings standing on the DC metro during my four years commuting, while plenty of young, healthy men sat and stared at their phones, I’ve certainly experience firsthand that a good discussion on chivalry is long overdue, especially for my generation. […]
[…] 8 Acts Of Chivalry To Bring Back. […]
This is so good! Exactly what I’ve been searching for! As a lady in this strange world in which we live, it gives me hope to find that there still are true gentlemen out there. As it may be, I think that if men would begin treating women like ladies again, then ladies would be surprised and want to give something in return. Like…RESPECT! All the women I’ve encountered haven’t really wanted to “be in charge”. If they search deep in their heart, they want a man to be able to tell them what to do. I don’t mean roughly, more like with a gentle but firm manner. Maybe I’m old fashioned, but you cannot demand respect and expect it to be given readily and willingly. Chivalry is paralleled with this: you cannot demand a man to be chivalrous, yet act as masculine as he is. It doesn’t work. Please bring chivalry back.
WHAT?! Women take notice of men who do those things. It’s great when it happens, but I can hold my own door open and I hold it open for my boyfriend sometimes too. It’s really just whoever makes it there first. But no, I do NOT like being told what to do. I like being in a relationship built on mutual respect where we do nice things for each other out of love, not because one of us did something good and the other felt compelled to “give something back.”
[…] 大人気ブロガーJames Michael Sama氏が、世界の草食系男性へ「紳士的な8つの行動」を提案しているのでご紹介。これなら日本の男性も実践してくれるかもしれません。 […]
[…] 大人気ブロガーJames Michael Sama氏が、世界の草食系男性へ「紳士的な8つの行動」を提案しているのでご紹介。これなら日本の男性も実践してくれるかもしれません。 […]
[…] 大人気ブロガーJames Michael Sama氏が、世界の草食系男性へ「紳士的な8つの行動」を提案しているのでご紹介。これなら日本の男性も実践してくれるかもしれません。 […]
[…] This blog post from James Michael Shama, founder of the New Chivalry Movement (an endeavor I applaud whole-heartedly) has been making the rounds on my Facebook feed over the past few weeks. It’s great to see advice from one young man to another on being a gentleman. As a woman who spent most workday evenings standing on the DC metro during my four years commuting, while plenty of young, healthy men sat and stared at their phones, I’ve certainly experience firsthand that a good discussion on chivalry is long overdue, especially for my generation. I appreciate Mr. Shama’s work and I realize he’s speaking largely about relationships and how men ought to treat women within them. Still, as a single woman, I’d also like to remind the gentlemen of this world that chivalry is not limited to the woman you’re romantically interested in. Sure, hold the door for the girl you like and pull out your date’s chair at the table, but chivalry isn’t about scoring points with your girlfriend. It’s about honoring and respecting those more vulnerable than you, which means quite simply there’s not always something in it for you. More than once I’ve been left in the proverbial cold while men went out of their way to impress my girlfriends with their chivalry. I’m well aware when a man is pursuing my friend, and I know just about every man in my acquaintance currently is only interested in me on the platonic level. I play the best friend role a lot, believe me, and I know how to be a third wheel. But that doesn’t mean it doesn’t hurt sometimes. As just one example among a few, several years ago a guy opened a door for my friend, then walked in after her himself and closed it on me–even though we were all walking together. I remember standing there staring at the closed door for a full minute, blinking in bewilderment. Apparently not being a romantic interest meant I wasn’t worth respecting at all. There’s not gentle way to put this: that hurt. It still hurts, in fact, even though it seems like such a small deal, and it happened so long ago. We single women develop a thick skin to rebuffs like that. Over time we come to expect them. We twist the painful experiences into cynical jokes and snide “funny” stories so they don’t sting quite as much, but the pain of being unnoticed and unlooked-for is very real. Men, do you want to be truly chivalrous? Take the time to perform a random act of gentlemanliness for a woman you’re not romantically interested in. It shouldn’t be a romantic act (you don’t want to send the wrong signal), but just affirming her womanhood means the world — even if she’s used to being cynical and not quite sure how to take it. I often return to that scene in the Garden of Eden, when Adam awoke and saw the woman for the first time. His response was one of wonder and delight; he affirmed the woman as a woman, and that affirmation was her delight. Each of us women is that first woman, and each of us longs to be seen and affirmed, even the most cynical and thick-skinned of us. All it takes is a small act of chivalry, like holding a door or vacating a metro seat, to say, “I affirm you as a woman. Not a potential girlfriend or someone I really want to impress, but as a woman in your own right, even if I never see you again.” In its ideal form, that’s what chivalry should be all about: affirming the value and worth of the other person, no strings attached. Mary Beth Baker writes a bi-weekly feature entitled Life in the Gap. Mary Beth’s outstanding personal blog, also entitled Life in the Gap, is about a young woman’s daily journey “in between.” In between what? Between the single life and whatever marvelous things God has in store. But far from being about a time of anxious waiting, Mary Beth’s reflections underscore the richness of living in the present moment. Courtesy of Life in the Gap […]
If a strange woman can expect me to open a door for her (with no such obligation on her part to open my door) then is it okay if I expect her to carry a lint brush and freshen my clothes? Women cleaning clothes for men is just a nice way of old fashioned ladies to show respect the same as opening the door.
Thank you for posting and sharing. Chivalry is not dead, my daughter and her husband courted for two and half years before saying “I Do” and did so without kissing, having premarital sex or moving in together. They never said it was easy, but worth the wait. While courting he always opened and held doors open not only for her, but other women. He always offers his arm, he drops her off at the door when parking far away (especially on cold or wet days), he’s always buying flowers for her, just because. He compliments her in every possible way to help lift her up. He is a real prince charmer and a very Godly man. He always had her at home by a respectable time. While courting and he realized she was the one, they had serious discussions regarding finances, children, discipline, responsibilities, and actively chose to go to marriage seminars, anything that would help prepare them for marriage. He talked to both my husband and I about his plans to marry, then once he decided to ask her, he asked us for our blessing. I’m raising our boys with chivalry and letting them know there are women who will not thank them or appreciate it, if anything they will take advantage of them. There are women who will try to nickle and dime them on dates. There are women who will want to kiss on the first date or go further, but it is up to them to stay pure until they marry. Staying pure keeps false rape charges down and keeps unwanted pregnancies out of their wallet, yes it can be done. I’m teaching them there are women who will dress provocatively just to get attention while showing off their assets, ask them to change before taking them out, they don’t want to change-then leave. If a young lady has to dress provocatively for a date, she has no respect for herself in turn she will have no respect for young men. Children learn by what they see and hear at home, teach your children, don’t leave it up to society.
That was the most soul-crushing post I’ve ever read. “False rape charges,” you say? Wow. As if you knew the first thing about sexual assault.
My mother raised me right!
That was way before this whole concept (being a gentleman) went off the rails. The woman’s lib movement did a fine job of rejecting polite behavior by men. I don’t have enough hands to count the times woman have expressed surprise that there is still a gentleman in this world. I have had women tell me they didn’t want me to open the door or hold their chair or ask why I moved to their other side when walking on a sidewalk.
Bottom line:
I do not find woman attractive who do not appreciate polite behavior.
For me it is an immediate disqualification!
I must say this is a very old fashion way of chivalry. Chivalry ain’t dead, it just evolved and became modern. Men might not hold open doors and pull out seats, but that is not really what respect is built on either. Respect is respecting each others way of thinking, respecting each others boundries. Not looking at each other as just a pice of meat, or walking wallets.
Respect is not to look down on those who are less fortunate than your self. To treat poor, sick or other cultures with respect.
There is no point in on sex to serve the other as if we were slaves, of the others demands. If we mean to be equal, we must act like we are equal.
It’s not like there are so many ladies out there anymore either, it seems being a bitch is the new cool. As a man, i do not really appreciate that either. But we accept that the world changes and moves on, and we must change with it.
It is no use to be stuck in the past. One thing is to open the doors for people, if you see they are carrying many bags. It is a totally different thing to expect them to walk on pools for you, just because you are a woman. Despite the fact that you never really give anything in return.
It took me 25 years to find a real woman, cause they are so few today.
But she is not a real lady, because she is willing to make dinners for me, or wash my clothes. She is a real woman, because she care for me, despite the fact that i am not perfect.
Chivalry is not opening doors or holding chairs, it is caring.
I give you my seat on the bus, if you are pregnant or old. Not because you are woman.
I hold the door for you, if i see you have a lot of bags to carry, or are pushing a baby wagon. Not because you are a woman.
I pull out the chair, if you are carrying a plate, and don’t have your hands free. Not because you are a woman.
Because it is in the end disrespectful, to treat people like they are helpless children.
In the end. Modern chivalry are called respect. I think most women prefer respect, in stead of a man behaving like a servant for them. But if they don’t, i do not really respect their intelligent to much.
Because if we are going to make every time we spend together, into a exercise of old fashion expectance of chivalry. Where one has to serve the other. Our time together will really be more stressful than enjoyable.
[…] Source: James M Sama […]
[…] find out which chivalrous acts really make most girl’s smile, I read through countless polls and articles to make sure that I had the most well-rounded list. Men, listen up if you are looking to be more […]
These 8 acts of chivalry are NOT anything that I ever want to have done for me. These are the things that male chauvinist pig men do to KEEP WOMEN IN SUBSERVIANT ROLES IN THIS SOCIETY. I refuse to play their stupid, antiquated games. Ladies first – like HELL. WE WOMEN ARE NOT STUPID. WE WILL NOT ACCEPT THESE DEMEANING ACTS FROM YOU. GO AWAY AND OPEN YOUR OWN DAMN DOORS. This stuff is one of the main causes that over the years have pushed women to the margins of society. I will not play your games; you are NOT being polite. You are je=rks when you do this stuff.
This comment is too absurd to be the way any rational human actually processes thoughts. Must be a troll.
So you’re the one ruining it for the rest of us! Chivalry is not about subjugation, it’s about respect and admiration. I don’t want men to treat me as an equal, I want them to treat me like the Queen and Goddess I am! Don’t trow away your power over men as a woman by cutting off your nose to spite your face. You come across as irrationally angry because someone attempts to pay you respect!
What do women do for men? We give birth to their offspring, so is it asking too much to open the door? Thank you!
Yeah but the woman only give birth child for their child, so just demand chivalry from their children (son AND daughter). And how about sterile and unmarried (and asexual) woman?
I do all these things for women and they like it. Then again I’m quite handsome so that probably helps……
Yeah but woman likeness is not everything at least not everything for men.
[…] article was originally published at James M. Sama. Reprinted with permission from the […]
Honestly this old article, and all old-fashioned articles about chivalry only make me thankful to God that I am not hetero or well gay man and free if I do NOT want practice all these lists (only) for women and do not need to worry about “you can not get cute girl if you are not chivalrous blablabla”. And I can understand why many men being MGTOW. I don’t need to be MGTOW because I like woman like I like seafood (I’m allergy), but I support and if I was hetero maybe I would join MGTOW. Honestly as a gay man myself I WANT to do that all that lists for MAN I love (if someday I have husband or boyfriend), but that’s not mean I pressure all gay men to practice all these lists to other men, so why all old-fashioned ( heterosexual) men and women feel they have right to pressure this for all men.
[…] article was originally published at James M. Sama. Reprinted with permission from the […]