Why We Need To Talk About Elliot Rodger
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[social_warfare]
For those of you who are unfamiliar with Elliot Rodger, he is (was) the 22 year old son of Hunger Games second unit director Peter Rodger. Elliot has recently carried out his predicted slaughter of women and sexually active men (7 killed in total) and then himself. Elliot submitted a 140+ page personal manifesto which chronicles his life and loneliness in incredible detail. Gawker has published Elliot’s YouTube threat(s) as well as his full manifesto.
Why did he do this? Because he was lonely. Because he was a 22 year old virgin and had never kissed a girl. Because he had a deep hatred for women who rejected him and for men who were sexually active. Because he saw himself as the perfect man, the “true alpha male” as he says in his videos – and yet all women rejected him.
Why do we need to discuss this? Because some people will actually sympathize with him. Because some people will actually say that if he had been sexually active or gotten what he wants, this wouldn’t have happened. What is the underlying message here? Women: Give yourselves to men you’re not attracted to, because if you don’t, he may fly off the handle.
This is a massive problem. Perpetuating even the thought of statements such as this are precisely why we still have a fight for equality.
No man is entitled to any woman. No man inherently “deserves” a woman’s attention, body, or heart. But the entitlement complexes deeply rooted in boys like Elliot easily create a Patrick Bateman-esque (American Psycho) love/hate relationship with women.
This discussion needs to be had because no sympathy for a boy like this should be given. An American boy from a wealthy family going to an expensive school, driving a BMW, is still not entitled to any woman. We have all been rejected. We have all had feelings for someone who didn’t have them for us in return – yet we do not develop an irrevocable violent hatred towards others simply because they are not attracted to us.
It should also be noted that Elliot considered himself a “failed” pickup artist – a community I am familiar with. A community that often (not always) treats women as “targets” or objects to be obtained, not humans to build mutually beneficial relationships with.
I’ve decided to reveal a personal piece of information about myself in this article for this reason – I was also a virgin when I was 22. Up until a week before my 23rd birthday, actually. For awhile this was by choice as I didn’t think I was ready to take the step, but for awhile it was also because of finding myself in situations similar to Elliot. Experiencing the “friend zone” (for lack of a better term), no returned attraction, etc.
But never, not even for a flicker of a millisecond, was this a trigger for hatred towards women or the possibility of violence. We need to instill in our youth that their value comes from within and not from whether or not those they desire approve and accept them. We need to teach our youth what healthy relationships look like and what toxic relationships look like.
Most of all – we need to teach our boys that women are equal to us and they are not entitled to force her hand in decision making – especially when it comes to sex or relationships. And, we need to teach our girls that they have absolutely no obligation to accept any invitation from any man whom they do not desire in return. Additionally, that their self worth does not come from the acceptance of others, but from within. That’s why it’s called *self* worth.
We need to have this conversation because hateful misogyny and violence still exists in people of all races and social standings, and absolutely cannot be ignored. We need to have this conversation because people like Elliot are literally publishing their threats and tendencies all over the internet with no action taken against them until it’s too late. We need to have this conversation because of apologists and sympathizers who stand up in his defense.
Warning signs are very real and out in the open more today than ever, given social media. Cries for help cannot be ignored.
We need to have this conversation because enough is enough.
**Edit** It’s important to note that I had a statement in this article about how Elliot had potentially been diagnosed with Asperger’s Syndrome but was repeatedly corrected by members of the media saying the family had retracted this statement, so I removed it. This has caused many people to question why I did not mention his psychological condition in this article, when in reality it was here in the first place but then taken out. I have not heard any “official” diagnoses so I choose not to comment on what I am not educated nor qualified to discuss.
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I absolutely do not condone that behavior. Had to say that and get it out of the way. With that said, I do feel bad for Elliot. For being so sick for so long. Mental illness that his money and his looks couldn’t fix. An illness that his family should have seen if they deigned enough to pay attention and learn about their son. For not getting help BEFORE he killed those girls. That is what I feel bad for.
Actually, his parents tried to get him help. He was seeing several doctors. His family even went to the police because they were worried about the threats he was posting online. The police felt he wasn’t a threat though.
This is one time when the parents WERE involved !! They called the police before this happened,expressing concern for him The police went to his home,spoke to him and it appeared that he was “ok” They had him in therapy for years.
Everyone seems to miss the point that the parents were involved TOO LATE! People don’t just all the sudden go crazy, this sociopath was carefully crafted by being neglected. Who is too blind to see that his parents obviously counted on money to raise their child instead of being there for him? I don’t know anything about this kid but I can almost guarantee that not only did he not have a good relationship with his mother, but neither did his father. Kids learn to build relationships with the other sex and respect them from the interactions of their parents.
Not the “one time”. The mother of the Boston Bomber called the FBI on her son a month before he the massacre. The FBI ignored her.
….the warning signs are there…
My thoughts exactly on this situation ! All the help in the world can’t automatically fix nor solved his problems. He was sick and those kinds of insecurities and negative thoughts he built in his head were never going to go away. He has built this up so big in his head. it’s extremely sad that these kinds of (mental) situations happen to many people in this world. Being ill isn’t his fault. You cannot control the way your body chemistry and mental health will turn out. It’s unfortunate because this situation should have never reached this point. He should have been put on constant. Watch in a mental hospital. It’s unfortunate because him and those others kids could have been alive today. So many people especially the love ones of these people are looking for answers and justice, and I don’t blame them. Who do you blame? do we blame the kid, for pulling the trigger. Or do we blame the parents for not getting him ENOUGH help? Or do we simply blame lack of gun control in the states? Whatever your opinion may be on this I believe we all agree that this is a horrific situation for anyone to have to live through and my thoughts and prayers go out to all the family and friends who lost someone yesterday and to his parents as we’ll for they as we’ll lost a son.
You do know this occurred in California, a state with some of the strictest gun laws. So no, you can’t blame “the lack of gun control laws in the states”
Brett, that’s the one thing you take away from what Leslie said here? Wow people really have selective attention these days…
Like others have said his parents were involved. Coming from someone with an extremely mentally ill and unstable, it is almost impossible to get any help for them. She has threatened people with knives, physically attacked people, and been diagnosed with multiple mental disorders. His parents are not at fault. This is definately a good example of how we need to help mentally unstable people because if we don’t, these situations, just like newton connecticut and columbine, will keep happening.
Very, very true. Thank you for saying that because it IS something to pity – his mental state not his virginity! and men AND women are being told that having at least someone wanting to have sex with to decline means you are undesirable and not worthy. I intellectually know that and STILL feel offended when guys don’t hit on me. This is getting ridiculous.
But thats the thing, you cannot pity this sort of thing. He wasn’t mentally ill, he was spoiled. He has gotten everything he has ever asked for in life and the one thing his parents can’t buy him is denied from him. He is a pathetic coward. The world doesn’t work that way. You shouldn’t be offended if a guy doesn’t hit on you. Guys also shouldn’t only consider girls an object to pursue. People should be decent and befriend the opposite sex.
@OilyQueen He never had a mental illness. Any rumours like that were made up. Why? Because he’s white. The US doesn’t accept a white man to act this way. If he had been black or latino, a possible ‘mental illness’ wouldn’t even be considered.
I disagree. He may not have been diagnosed with a mental illness, but any person regardless of their color or race who kills and then kills themselves has a mental illness. That is not natural, normal, or what mentally healthy people do.
I work with mentally ill people every day. I would have said the same thing had he been purple. Color had nothing to do with it. He may not have been diagnosed, but he was very sick. Obviously the doctors “helping” him weren’t doing a very good job. I’m absolutely NOT condoning this behavior, and I agree with James wholeheartedly, but at the same time I wish with all my heart that he had gotten the help he so desperately needed.
He was actually Eurasian.
exactly. stop blaming white people for fucking problems that have nothing to do with being white.
Because he’s white?
You do realize anti-depressants are the most prescribed drugs in America… right? The race/ethnic card is old, get over yourself.
Just because something is old doesn’t mean it’s not true. America is still racist.
Tom – America is racist, yeah, but don’t even try to tell me it’s just white people being racist to all the other races. It swings all ways. Just ask my friend who got teeth knocked out and had to have surgery for other injuries, simply because someone decided that “the first white boy I see I’m going to beat up”. The race card is tired, and I’m frankly sick of it.
He was half Chinese. The first three people he killed were Chinese. He didn’t look white to me.
Absolutely this conversation needs to happen. The issue was not his lack of attention, his virginity, his “friendzone”, it was his lack of self esteem, loneliness, and being unfulfilled. Those are some of the deep rooted issues that caused his anger and that needs to be addressed as well. Even if he had slept with hundreds of women, it would have delayed the inevitable because people cannot fulfill you! If your happiness is dependent on others then you are in trouble because people will let you down time and time again.
There are not words enough to express the disservice society does to men and women alike. Society gives permission for women to feel obligated to sleep with a man for many reasons, but on the other side of that men often times feel pressured because if they are not trying to get in a woman’s pants then she feels like he isn’t interested in her. It is awful. Because of these pretenses, there are self esteem issues everywhere! I wish people would begin to love themselves and settle for no less than respect on both sides. Men shouldn’t be walked all over and manipulated and women shouldn’t be treated poorly and like an object.
I am not sure if any of this makes sense. I could write thousands of words on the subject. Elliot Rodger’s story is sad, but not because he was a virgin or because he hadn’t kissed a girl, but because nobody saw his loneliness, because his parents did not teach him his value, because he wasn’t important enough to those around him. That is the part that is heart breaking! Material objects will never give someone true value of who they are. We are humans and we need to be loved and encouraged, when we are not it does not matter how much money we have, how nice our clothes are, and how expensive our car is. At the end of the day we are still lonely, insecure and unfulfilled.
This is why I love this blog so much, there is value in respecting yourself and treating others with respect. Chivalry is so much more than just getting the girl. It is a culture. One that is so needed in society today!
THANK YOU!!! This is exactly what I wanted to say 🙂 I don’t feel bad for him for being a scourge of humanity. I feel bad because he was sick (obviously not diagnosed if rumors are to be believed) and didn’t get the help he needed. I feel bad because rich or poor we all need a family to look out for us. His didn’t. No, he didn’t have to kill those girls, and no he didn’t have to have a hatred for women, but he did. My prayer is that Elliott’s story makes us think just a little bit harder about ourselves, and what we can contribute to the world 🙂
I love what you both have to say. For completeness sake I would add that he killed 2 women and 4 men.
The two women were shot as was the last man. The first three men were his roommates, and he stabbed them to death. I am sure that they had all gotten laid and he hated them.
People want to focus on his resentment of women, but he resented men too. The kid had a problem with selfishness, envy and a narcissistic sense of self-entitlement.
“…its a spiritual war, and our great depression is our lives” – Tyler Durden
Well said!!!
Chivalry is NOT needed. Feeling loved by others is though.
This is the best response I’ve read so far. You are completely right. More parents need to emphasize that their children’s self worth doesn’t come from the acceptance of others. It comes from within. You cannot consider yourself failed because you haven’t had sex. This media protrays a false idol of what it is to be a man and what it is to be cool. That is all he has seen, he grew up in the industry, all he has ever seen is the fake egotistic sexual misogynist man that is portrayed in almost every tv show. It is extremely important that parents let their children know how important they are. If you are happy with your family, you don’t need anybody else in your life to make you happy.
Reblogged this on life, liberty, and the pursuit of a college degree.
Thank you for posting this. Absolutely every word of what you’ve said is so true. This message needs to be heard.
Let’s be honest, he wasn’t rejected by ALL women…….He was only rejected by the Super Hot Blondes that he ‘felt’ he ‘should’ be able to get with his Fame, Car and Money. There isn’t a man out there that doesn’t have ‘some’ girl after him….she may not be a size 3 with a heart shaped booty and size D cups…..but she is female and has her eye on him. HE rejected the pudgy, plain, clarinet player in favor of the Drill Team Captain. We all know it is true. The kid was sick…..
That being said, it is even sicker to (as you said) to empathize with him.
Without empathy, without a willingness to understand the pain that drives a person to do horrible things, we can never heal that pain and we can never stop them from doing the horrible things. We don’t have to agree with them. The ideas that he articulated, the ideas that he acted out, the ideas that helped him generate his pain are all very very wrong. The ideas he lived by were and are toxic… but if we dismiss him as a monster, we will never stop this pageant.
Love and affection from his parents would have gone a long way. Working through his toxic ideas and learning healthier ones would have gone a long way. He could have learned a better way to be. Learned not to blame others for his suffering, learned to see that the value in himself does not depend on other people. By refusing empathy, by refusing to understand him and people like him, we condemn the next angry boy that thinks it’s a man to become the same sort of monster he eventually chose to be.
Your comment needs a double like button 🙂 thank you. My empathy for this boy’s sickness by no means says I approve of his actions. I just think simply saying don’t do what he did, without understanding why he did what he did, and learning new ways of behaving, we can’t help the next person who has these same feelings. We can keep the next Elliot from acting. Keep the next Elliot from killing 7 people. I do NOT agree with killing peoplw to make your point. I believe in learning from these stories, and by learning the motives behind them. I am not hearing about a monster, I am hearing about a very sick young man who killed people. Was it wrong? Absolutely! Can we learn from it and help others? Most definitely.
Edward, you championed the cause of empathy here and won! Such a great post, well written and clearly articulated!! Thank you
Reblogged this on I GUESS I'M A GROWNUP and commented:
The idea that this kid is getting exactly what he wants – attention – is very bothersome to me, but at the same time, Elliot Rodger has very possibly finally brought the necessary attention to the sense of entitlement that FAR too many many possess. Women are not objects and men do not “deserve” anything from us. I was going to try to throw together a post about this at the last moment, but James Michael Sama expressed my sentiments well and probably far more nicely than I would have.
It’s sad that men and women alike tend to push the entitled mentality that some men have in dating. I’ve had friends insist that I just date some interested guy that I had no interest in because he was making an effort- therefore, I should just date him. Never mind my wants and needs. He’s making the effort. I should give him the attention regardless.
I’ve also seen a disturbing trend in guys around Elliot’s age- insanely entitled, harboring hatred toward women who aren’t interested in them, and thinking this ridiculous objectification is okay. This is something our society needs to drop as a mentality because its utterly insane to think this is okay.
“It’s hard thinking my actions, being part of a sorority, led him to do this,” she [Kyley Scarlet, former sorority president] said. (quote from several news stories) I completely fail to see how she, in any way, was responsible for his actions.
Bravo — this post is the best commentary I’ve seen on this sad story. While I can emphasize with Elliot Rodger’s loneliness and single status, I do not feel sorry for him. This kid had opportunity up the ying-yang. Instead of forcing something to happen, he should have been focusing on himself and putting his effort into something positive and bettering himself. He could have easily pursued an acting career, being the son of a Hollywood director. I’ve been single for a long time and have tried everything and finally decided that love is going to have to find me (instead of me trying to find love) and right now I’m focusing on myself. I lost my job in February and have been working out regularly and getting into really good shape (especially has I have had more time now to do so), I run my own Meetup group and have been making new friends, posting to my blog more, and have been reading as much as I can on what makes for a successful relationship, so that I’ll be prepared when it happens.
On a side note, it seems that many people in their 20s today (and some in their 30s) have a very unhealthy sense of entitlement, as they were spoiled and coddled growing up, and I’m afraid that stories such as this one are going to become more common. They were never taught how to accept rejection and brush it off, since they were handed everything they wanted growing up. Being the wealthy child of a Hollywood director, I’m SURE this kid was given everything he wanted and never heard the word “no.” And now several people are dead. An extreme example of what can happen to a spoiled kid for sure, but maybe it will be a cautionary tale for some folks.
“…..We in America have a culture of individualistic blaming and expectations. I think people.. well feminists specifically… are so angry because when things like this happen, we sit back and make it an individual problem. For example. “He was mentally-ill” in the case of cis white men, or citing a “history of violent tendencies” in others. We’re always looking for an individualistic excuse when the actual problem runs deeper. Like a disease where we’re only pacifying the symptoms….” http://jukeboxborne.tumblr.com/post/86820238393/elliot-rodger-opening-the-doors-for-much-needed
Reblogged this on Sometimes I Wear Tiaras and commented:
Very poignant and all too true. James Michael Sama’s piece is informative, interesting, and important. Check it out.
My son is aspergers and wouldn’t dream of this kind of premeditated violence. This isn’t about high functioning autism, it’s about being a sociopathic narcissist. This guy was flat out crazy. Please don’t assume that a social disfunction equals this kind of antisocial behavior.
Every person with some kind of ‘dysfunction’ is a mixed bag of factors. I work with a lot of autistic kids, and I can tell you that they are NOT all the same – so what you said is absolutely true. Mental illness aside, I’d say he also grew up in a materialistic environment – So Cal is all about style over substance, after all.
The world really should consider ABORTION to be legal and also locking up kids who show clear signs of being mentally unstable.
Also, has no one told this kids about hookers and escorts? With all that cash he could have easily bought a lady for her time and companionship.
Thank god he killed himself
Wow what a meaningful comment that adds so much to this conversation about a young man who was mentally ill. Thanks for your positivity asshole
The underlying message is: sexualization in Western society is taking its toll on our youth and everyone else. In different forms, many men and women follow pathways unconsciously towards the necessity of sex in their lives. This is by far wrong.
“We need to have this conversation because of apologists and sympathizers who stand up in his defense.” THAT is the number one main reason right there. I agree with all other points of why to have this conversation with our kids, but this is our biggest problem. People who would rather sympathize for the “poor bastard” that did this rather than accuse him of being at fault. He obviously did not get the attention or treatment he needed from his family. It doesn’t matter how much money you have, we’re a hard working society that is letting our children fall through the cracks because most parents don’t have TIME to DEAL with their kids. So when something like this happens, parents get blamed, everyone talks about how that “poor boy” must have grown up. And how could parents treat their child so horribly? The “poor boy” was sick. He knew the consequences of his actions and chose to ignore those consequences. If he hadn’t killed himself, he would have gone to jail and would have been treated better there than out in the real world. People would have worshiped him and protected his rights!! Without a second thought to the rights of those POOR WOMEN he killed. Sorry, ranting and raving now. Things like this really tick me off and I get up on a soap box. This is a wonderful post, I’m glad you put this out there.
There is a difference between sympathizing with him and recognizing his mental illness. I agree that we should be thinking about the women AND men that he killed but I don’t believe that this young man was some sexist asshole. He was, to put it bluntly, a psychopath. His autism caused him to have social problems and this isolation made him develop a really thick skin to feeling others pain. He was mentally ill so, while I am not sympathizing with him, I want everyone to realize that he was not sane when he was committing these acts of murder.
Reblogged this on The Body House and commented:
This is serious. This is extreme. I agree with James M. Sama…. No man is ENTITLED to any woman. Which means we don’t have to give you any part of our bodies, minds, energy or attention if we don’t want to. Period.
If you guys understood this and showed real respect to women you would get more out of us. The fact is, women WANT to give to men but not when we feel coerced, disrespected or patronized.
This may be something to keep in mind the next time you feel like she won’t give you the time of day. It’s probably because on some level she feels like you think she owes you something.
So maybe it’s time you asked yourself how often you think she “should” be behaving toward you in a certain way. People are sensitive to the unspoken communications of others. Perhaps you’re telegraphing your arrogance?
I do think that this is a wake up call to inequality between men and women however, I don’t believe that this is the best scenario to represent that inequality given that the man was mentally ill
A note to the author….let me start by saying I do not condone nor am I attempting to justify the behavior of this young man. However, to vilify this young man based on this action alone is unfair and omits logical reasoning of its genesis. He didn’t wake up one day with these feelings, he was built and “made” this way…it starts with society and his parents, upbringing….his ideals of “entitlement” have little to do with gender classes and more to do with how we as a society are raising our children in general. We have “moving up” ceremonies now for kids of every grade…why? graduation is for those who have worked hard and earned it….we have children’s sports with no scores so that no one “loses”….why? so that the kids feelings aren’t hurt? THIS, is the problem, not whatever gender roles you think contributed to his actions….
We are not teaching our youth realistic adult virtues and tools of survival…..we aren’t teaching our youth how to deal with rejection, a very real, adult reality….you will not always get your way….man, woman, gay, straight, etc….but by giving these kids everything, without earning it, without teaching them respect and self respect…they grow up to believe that they are “entitled” to whatever they desire….why? because they were never taught that they couldn’t have everything in the first place…..so we, as a society, have failed this young man and many more like him….
So although I get your point that you tried to make that “no man is entitled to any woman”….that is poorly stated….because all that does is teach young girls that they are entitled to everything….this is also wrong….and that is part of the major problems we have in society today, this gender war we have going on….women in general think they are entitled to everything….they want “equality” but also want special treatment and exceptions….this is an oxymoron and virtual impossibility….which segues to my next point that you mentioned, men being equal to women….this is also wrong….we are not….a popular feminist ideal that is constantly preached, however….we are very different…and we need to recognize, accept and acknowledge these differences….we are absolutely not equal…..this is not to say that men are better than women or vice versa….we simply have different roles in society and in nature….just as any other animal on this planet….we simply are not equal….although that is the paradigm that is constantly pushed in society. Once we understand each others differences, respect them and acknowledge them, we can build a better world….but as long as we keep trying to push this “one size fits all” blanket onto everyone, people will rebel and we will continue to have these same problems.
So to recap – the REAL culprit in this unfortunate incident, is US…as a society….WE have failed this young man….not his desire for women….that’s a perfectly natural thing for a young man of his age….his problem was that he did not understand how to negotiate this very confusing human emotion….he did not have the social maturity nor was he equipped with the tools to deal with rejection….but that’s not ALL his fault….this is OUR failure…so be careful before you string him up in the town square to be tarred and feathered….
You cannot promote “equality” then make statements that men/ boys have to acquiesce to women’s demands and emotions at the expense of their own….and that’s what’s wrong with society now and a lot of these women/girls….they think the world is here for the taking for them…..they believe a man is here to serve them….don’t believe me? look at our laws…..the VAWA Act for instance….why do we have laws protecting only women? Domestic Violence happens on BOTH sides of the gender line, but we as a society, are totally comfortable with accepting the paradigm that “under NO circumstance should a man hit a woman” – however, there is NO converse examination of this statement when it applies to women….the result? a generation of young girls who think its acceptable and even justifiable to hit, disrespect, and otherwise emasculate any man because they are “entitled” to….i.e. – the Solange/Jay-Z incident….now, had he retaliated, the media would have decimated him and his career….with absolutely NO examination as to WHY he may have retaliated….however, for Solange? no one had that to say…..and THATS the problem….so you have to stop with this ideal that men/boys must submit to women in everyway….but then ask for “equality” – because if equality is truly what you seek, then you have to stop making excuses for, advocating for and placating women. And as long as we continue this double-standard, we will NEVER reach true “equality”….which, as I stated, we are not, and cannot be anyway….men are men….women are women….we are this way for a reason….we are not androgynous, asexual beings….we have two separate genders for a reason…each has a specific purpose and role…..women are no longer happy accepting their role and are, for all intents and purposes, trying to become MEN…in every way….so they don’t even really want “equality”, they want domination….and people like you making statements like you make, only further promote the notion.
Another example….Family Court….why do we favor women in the custody of our children? shouldn’t it be EQUAL custody as the standard?? why do we still have Alimony? a marriage ending is simply the end of a relationship, not a life of “entitlement” for women….you see, before you start to make the statements you make about “equality” – you have to start looking at THESE things before you crucify this young man, because the problem did not start, nor will it end, with him…..again, his actions, I do NOT condone….but you have to examine the cause of such actions….you have to ask, what would make him do this? what would make him feel this way? and you cannot use his own manifesto as an explanation, as he obviously did not possess the necessary tools of maturity to express himself in a mature way….so how could he possibly give a logical explanation to what he was feeling??
So you are right about one thing…..this conversation definitely needs to be had….but not from the perspective you suggest….the problem with this young man, is a societal one….not a gender one….he is only speaking from what he was taught….you have to look deeper than the “alpha male” theory you propose….the problem starts with his parents, his upbringing, society….that never taught him to deal with rejection, that never taught him self confidence, that never taught him the value of self respect. This young man wasn’t “mentally disabled” , he was simply never equipped with these tools….so this outcome is not all that surprising….and happening more and more in todays youth….do you think this is an isolated incident? How do you think Columbine happened? Sandy Hook? Its the SAME problem…you are simply looking at the symptoms and not the cause….perhaps you have drunken the Kool-Aid of society that caters to women and devalues men and young boys….such as the majority of all the comments I see on this post echoing your sentiments….with none of you pointing out the REAL issue, but yet, running to the “easy” answer….that we must “teach boys to…”….that is not the answer.
I humbly suggest you rethink your position and reevaluate society as a whole….because I promise you, this will not be the last event of its kind.
I just want to give you a major amen brother/sister. People think there’s only 2 sides to this story. Either everyone hates this kid, says men are getting screwed up and need fixing because they’re all pigs seeing women as their objects. Or everyone goes hey he had his reasons, girls get on your knees and do what you’re made for. Nobody ever thinks “Hey, is there middle ground?” They just look at a problem, and label it #1, or #2, then fight about it.
We ARE indeed teaching our children to grow up learning nothing about loss or failure. Letting everyone think fairness is everything and nothing can go wrong. We can’t discipline children, so if they start acting out like this all they ever get is “a talking to”. Otherwise you’re an abusive parent and have a chance to face prison charges.
The whole animals in nature thing.. Oh my god I love that you said that. That is now my favorite metaphor on the subject of men/women being “equal”. Think about lions, do the male and female lions both do the hunting, and both do the protecting, both raise their cubs the same etc? Or does the male offer what the female can’t, and together they make perfect unity? Just as all animals do. Yes I know what everyone’s thinking in response to this “But we’re not animals we’re evolved” Or for you religious people “we were created by god differently” Or whatever your religion belief is (Not here to judge or hate) But the point is, we ARE different. Women aren’t built the same as men and vice versa.
And your point of the whole laws for women and nothing for men is so too true it’s painful. I’ve had 2 past girlfriends both VERY abusive. Oh, nobody cared though. Nobody blinked an eye. In fact, their friends just decided not to like me because they thought I must have been doing horrible things to them to make them be that violent. The REALLY sad thing about this is there’s probably a few people reading this that immediately think the same thing “Oh you must be lying. You must have been a jerk. You just think you’re nice but you’re not” But If it were the other way around? I’d have probably been locked up or had a restraining order forced. Men can be abused, men can be violated, Family courts, sometimes the man really is the better parent yet nobody gives a shit. Alimony? What if the man was the housewife (As that actually is a common thing for you doubters) and the woman was making all the money? Oh that’s right, the man still has to pay her, and lose his child that he was the majority care giver for. You might argue this point by saying “That’s not true if he gives proof and facts he can fight it and win!” Truth be told, that almost never happens. Look it up. And yet nobody cares and think women still deserve more rights, just because we’re these big mean men.
In summary, sir/madam, I give you my utmost respect for what you have written. And although haters, feminists (not calling you out, just general feminists WILL do the typical thing and ignore points to argue their own. If you are not one of these people you may want to think about calling yourself an -equalist- Which we all love), etc will just ignore the good points you have made and just yell out “You’re wrong equality/feminism for life!” I just want you to know there are at least a few people that hear what you’re saying.
I thank you for your response, I am a man of a certain age of maturity…and I typically think outside of the normal paradigm that most in society are all too happy to accept without question….Thank you for seeing my point for what it is….the true problem is society and the way we treat each other….our children see this, mirror this behavior, then we want to chastise and discipline them for it….when all it really is, is a reflection of our own behavior.
and yes, the lioness in the pride has the ROLE of hunting so that everyone eats, just as the male lion has his ROLE of protector of the pride….its as simple as that….and for those that may use the excuse you gave, that we aren’t animals….we are “evolved”…..I say 1. we ARE animals….people forget that….and 2. we are actually the slowest to “evolve”….just about every other species evolves exponentially faster than humans….because they adapt out of necessity, they don’t have the social constraints we live by…..
example…how long did it take us, as humans, to stop burning people at the stake for practicing “witchcraft” despite us knowing it was wrong?? We take forever to evolve even when we know what the problem is because we have societal pressures keeping us from acting on what we know is wrong.
The feminists movement is part of the problem…..you cannot be a feminist and claim you are about equality by virtue of the very name…otherwise you would be a “humanist” or at the very least a “person of equality” – and that clearly isn’t their agenda….or at least thats the image out there.
So as I said, until we rid ourselves of this “one size fits all” mentality and understand that we ARE different and play different roles….until we are done with the double-standards….this issue will continue….
So I thank you, at least if someone gets it, we can educate others…..or at least those who will listen and are open minded. Change starts with you…..be the change you want to see….
Hear-hear! Forget chauvinism, feminism and other gender-biased bollocks.
Real equality is when both genders are treated the same.
Best comment here.
I 100% Agree with you…I’m 20 years old. I don’t have a fancy car, nor parents who can afford me all the things I want, or send me to a fancy school…I had to work for all the things I wanted out of life. But what my parents *IMO* did was take the time to actually raise me and not throw money at doctors telling to *fix my child!*
What I learned from dating,ex gfs, and parents is that if you want to have a women in your life, stop looking for girls, but focus on becoming the best man you could possibly be…work for the things you have, live the life you want, and enjoy life…then women will come you naturally.
This young mans problem was that he thought he was entitled to all the things he had, thus women should too right? WRONG!!! He was given all these things since he was a boy, and so he remained a BOY…
I don’t need to explain anything you said #i’mjustsaying…because I 100% agree with you man…
At the same time. I can understand some of the arguments. Growing up, boys who are studious, underdeveloped, or plain socially awkward are immediately labeled “gay,” “nerd,” “weird,” or “loser,” among others, by girls their age. As a developing adolescent, these social interactions can have great impact on one’s psyche causing low self-esteem, inferiority complexes, and diminished social skills. I’m not saying this justifies mass slaughters because I’m not an idiot. I’m just saying, if we were all nicer to each other from the start, maybe a few of these things wouldn’t happen.
These “Labels” are not solely bestowed by females Jason. There is just as much labeling and peer judgement being doled out by males toward other males during formative years. Sometimes the harshest standards and social abuses on young people are the ones by their own gender. Yes, I’m a woman so that may cause some people to question my ability to empathize fully with the types of things men are specifically subjected to..however I draw my opinion on this matter from my observances during my four younger brothers very different experiences as they grew up. My 1st sibling-Athletic and very driven to be status quo macho male. 2nd sibling-quiet underachieving people pleaser. 3rd sibling-academic and socially awkward with few friends. 4th sibling-stereotypically “mellennial” obsessed with social media to the point of stagnation. They all agree for them, the boys were meaner. And I agree the girls were meaner.
P.S. They all turned out to be good people as adults after realizing high school was not the forever it felt like. And they could be free to define their own identities without punishment, Probably because they had a great big sister to encourage them may have helped 🙂 probably..
The more sad thing is this kid killed 4 men and 2 women, guess what’s happening? NOBODY knows about the guys he killed! Why? Because all that matters with feminists posting up these stories is “Women were hurt” Not even a notable mention about killing any males. No of course not. All that matters is 2 women got hurt, ignore the 4 men, and let’s tell all men how bad they are and to treat women better.. I know all the people he killed was a wrong-doing. Don’t get me wrong. But why is it only ever “Let’s focus on the women they’re so defenseless and need help” If you’re going to tell part of a story. Tell the WHOLE story.
And while I’m posting here I just want to express something that always pisses me off so much that.. Well I believe every feminist believes in. FRIEND ZONING IS NOT WHAT YOU THINK. It does not mean guys are pissed that you won’t sleep with them. It does not mean you’re a hoe, slut, whore, whatever for not banging him. IF A GUY THINKS THAT? He’s probably a douche bag, and don’t generalize all males as that class just because those are the guys you attract and keep around you. That’s like us guys saying “Man every woman is a slut because this one girl giving out sex to everyone won’t sleep with me, so that means all women are bitches”. ALL FRIEND ZONING MEANS- Is oh, a guy showed interest, you’re not interested. Instead of saying “Yeah she’s not interested in dating me, oh well” We say “Yeah she friend zoned me bro” SO STOP THINKING THE TERM FRIEND ZONE GENERALIZES ALL MALES AS SAYING “Stupid bitch won’t sleep with me. Fucking friend zoning whore” The ONLY people who use it as a term to call you women sluts or anything are the types of guys that are indeed classified as “d-bags” So if you don’t like it? Stop making those kind of guys your best friends. It’s YOUR choice who you surround yourself with. Learn to walk away.
Reblogged this on and commented:
Excellent points.
A) It’s Asperger’s Syndrome, not disease – it’s not a bug that you catch.
B) Using the term “friendzone” makes it sound like you do feel that nice guys are entitled to being in relationships with women simply because they are nice. You experienced unrequited love, not the “friendzone.”
C) Otherwise, I think this is a great post. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and doing your part to encourage self-love instead of allowing people to believe that being in a relationship is the be all, end all of happiness.
Please read his manifesto if you’re curious of his behavior
and what he mentioned wasn’t exactly true.
Girl rejecting him? please, he didn’t make any effort to talk to one, thinking they would come to him and hook up with him instead…
“Girl rejecting him? please, he didn’t make any effort to talk to one”
This is a valid point – I admit that his initial frustration is something that I am familiar with. I was ‘friend zoned’ frequently throughout high school and college – but probably the main reason why was that I simply didn’t have the confidence to talk to girls. I had it backwards in my head – i thought confidence came form having girls like you, and since that didn’t seem to be happening it trapped me in a vicious circle. It was only years later that I realized that confidence came from just being and liking who I am – which has nothing to do with who else admires me.
He had a syndrome that made him socially awkward.. I don’t think that he was capable of just talking to members of the opposite sex like you and I are.
I waited to hear what all the details would be about this. Meantime, I saw many comments on social media immediately afterwards that were appalling (from both genders.) Reading the comments here are refreshing and reflect some of what I have been thinking about this. For the commentators here, Thank you – so much wisdom and insight in here.
Generally speaking in this case, a severely mentally disturbed person’s actions became many peoples’ personal agendas example. His unmanageable pain in the end was even ignored and/or made to fit other peoples’ points.
Anyone who has ever been bullied understands a lot of this situation. Anyone who has witnessed the way people talk disrespectfully to each other at times, recognizes much of this situation. Anyone who’s known mentally ill people, knows super sensitive people, knows narcissists, experienced sexism, experienced depression, lacked self control, been treated like they don’t matter, felt fear (uncertain personal security) from another person, etc etc etc!! can relate to any part of this story. This is not a one dimensional train wreck. Yes, he did feel he’s selfishly entitled, but he also was let down by his family-authorities of all kinds, through out his struggles. Complete strangers unwittingly contributed to his downward spiral by sheer lack of awareness and their own self absorbed reactions. His rampage was entirely his fault and inexcusable; he seems intelligent enough to “know better.” But he did have that negative assistance along the way when it came to his mental deterioration. I feel bad for his pain, but don’t condone the way he handled it at all.
Watching social media rants last nite, many attributed to “feminists”, to me seemed like selfish “entitled” people themselves speaking out. Whom were labeled Feminists by others commenting on their comments. And men ranting responses reflecting attitudes and ideas that should have ended decades ago, if only for a more respectful point of view in general. As is mentioned in James’ blogs and comments often, society needs to be nice to others in general. Not in a servitude way, not in a submissive way; maybe just more compassionate than it’s become. The recent “self help” people like to say that you shouldn’t worry about what other people think about you because they rarely think about you – is so true from both ends of that idea’s spectrum. And maybe that’s part of the problem, people need to get out of themselves more often and relate to what else is around them. Another part of the problem is this “war” between sexes that is just as devastating, one is not better than the other. One is not more entitled than the other, no matter what side you’re shouting from. Blending is a much better way to try to coexist.
This isn’t another war against women issue, it is about mental illness and the lack of recognizing it and lack of responding to it effectively. I agree with James when he pointed out this kid had so many self esteem and other issues going wrong in him first. That is exactly right. And when someone is vulnerable in this way the people they usually end up with are the absolutely wrong people to look to for acceptance.
this tragedy has sparked a lot of conversation, as have all the previous multiple shooting tragedies. The mental issue aside, let’s consider that if guns were not so freely available it would not have happened. Yes, he may well have resorted to some kind of violence, but not on this scale.
Yes! I find it so hard to believe that someone would sell a person with a psychological issue a gun!
so very true
I don’t understand this article. It focuses on a very minor point relative to the main issue with Elliot Rodger.
The issue is not so much that he was a misogynist, but because he suffered mental health issues that were not addressed early enough to save the lives of those were killed. I find it extremely outrageous that feminists and women’s rights advocates are using this incident to further their own political agenda instead of addressing the real problem: mental health and clinical psychological help.
Yes, he had an illness that should have been caught early on. But the fact that he treated women as objects not as people was part of the problem too.
He treated them that way because he didn’t know any better. People with illnesses like him don’t think the same way as others. It was his psychological illness that led him to behave in the way that he did.
The kid needed to have discipline. He didn’t have a job, but he had a car and had money to purchase guns and had his apartment paid. His parents should have made him pay for his own education and living expenses. Maybe then he wouldn’t have had time for these narcissistic thoughts.
Maybe they gave him material possessions instead of love. If he had felt loved in his family life, non of this would have happened.
I agree with a lot of the points mentioned in your post, but had to say that I am a woman who feels sympathy for Eliott. What he did was decpicable, but when watching his videos I could see myself in him. I too have been suffering from lonliness and can understand the deep emotional hole he was in. Putting his lack of sexual experience aside, or never being in a relationship, Eliott also says he doesn’t have any friends. He was truly isolated from society.
And when he says he hates women? How many times have you heard a woman say she hates men? Many times I bet. I’ve said it too very recently but it was never considered “mysogonistic”, just normal.
In one video he explains how a young couple has ruined his view of the ocean. This was scary for me to hear, as thoughts like this are often in my head as well. After being hurt and used by so many men, and never finding myself in a romantic relationship, I have recently also found myself having similar thoughts; feeling disgusted when I see a loving couple on the street, or sitting across from me on the bus.
I don’t really have a point I’m trying to make, but just wanted to share my mixed emotions when reading about this horrible story. Obviously Eliott had a problem, and did not seem to be mentally stable, but what he was feeling wasn’t exclusive just to men. He was experiencing rejection and lonliness which we all go through. Revenge is another important thing to mention here. It is very common for someone who is hurt to have the need to take revenge on the person who’s hurt them. In this case it was just taken to the absolute extreme which had devestating consequences.
What part of lonely did the author not get from this messed up kid? The author was right. No man is entitled to any woman. And conversely no woman is entitled to any man, but everyone deserves to feel wanted and loved. We are social creatures. Our culture beats the living shit out of us every day of our lives that having someone is the greatest thing you will ever experience in your life. Through literature, through popular music, through movies and TV. “love” and / or relationships permeates civilization at pretty much every aspect. So is it any wonder when a kid gets constantly rejected, society’s standards say there is something wrong with you. That no one wants you and that you aren’t worth anything. Its an easy downward spiral for many that results in the feeling of you are going to be alone for the rest of your life. Some cope with it, some don’t. The author uses the word misogyny. No doubt that there are examples of that out there. In many cases I call bull****. What this comes down to is meeting societies expectations. We need to stop this crap altogether and let boys and men know that being in a relationship isn’t the end all be all of everything.
THANK YOU! Oh my gosh I can’t believe you’re the only person who’s also thought of this point. Everybody is talking about mental illnesses, misogyny, feminism, why not talk about the issue that so many people seem to think that their lives have no worth if they don’t have sex? Maybe its because there is something wrong with me personally but I’ve never relied on being in a relationship with another person or being physically intimate as a way to live my life. There are a hundred thousand other things out there that create fantastic memories, emotions and experiences and everybody is trying desperately to cram themselves into little boxes just so that they can get some tail.
Yes we are social creatures, yes we were made for lack of a better word to breed to encourage the continuation of our race, but as we have proved time and time again we are more than what our DNA makes us. Some people prefer not having a relationship just as some people prefer not eating meat, or having children. It doesn’t make you any less of a human being. We need to place less emphasis on basing your self worth on your ability to find a suitable mate and more on what you choose to do as a person.
Using the: I’ve been rejected many many times, excuse is no excuse, my brother is 27years old and a virgin.
Yet he didn’t go around killing men and women because he couldn’t get laid or have a relationship.
Its called make something out of yourself.
Then maybe women would notice and become attracted to you.
Living off of your parents isn’t the best thing to do.
Its why i dumped my ex.
Thank you for writing this! I completely agree with your perspective!
I myself was a late bloomer when It came to the whole world of love. Through most of Jr. High and High School boys didn’t really seem to notice me.
However as I made my way into my 20’s WHAM! It seemed as though a world of men lay at my feet. However, because I am a girl who believes in quality not quantity in all thing I am still very cautious when it comes to the dating world. I’m almost 24, and I’ve gone out on dates here and there, but I’ve only had two relationships.
Currently at least half of my closer friends are guys, and I feel like I somehow manage to acquire someone’s interest fairly regularly: leaving me in the position of deciding whether to embrace their interest or let them know that there isn’t anything there.
There are really only two reasons why I don’t pursue something with a guy who seems to be interested in me:
1. I know them well enough to know it wouldn’t work.
Just because you might be close with someone doesn’t mean it’s marriage material. I want to travel. So if I know that a guy is interested in me and is building a successful career that wouldn’t allow him to travel, why would we bother getting emotionally invested? If I know that a guy friend and myself have significant religious differences, why would I invest in a situation that I know we may bicker about later?
2. I know that I am being treated like a trophy, or something to be obtained.
I am old-fashioned. If a guy has an interest in me, I like to see that he’s putting effort into wooing me. However, I hate being treated like an award and not a human. If I can clearly tell that a guy isn’t interested in me and my goals and who I am as a person, I don’t want anything to do with him. I’m not a trophy. I may be cute and sweet and smart and driven, but I am not someone to show off to the rest of the world just to prove that you are capable of winning such a girl. I am a person, with the ability to bleed, cry, and feel the wide range of emotions that love and life have to offer.
The reason why neither one of my relationships worked out? Because I didn’t follow my gut and went against rules 1&2.
So thank you again for writing this article! As someone who has dealt with my fair share of rejection and then my fair share of attention, I can say with all my heart that the only thing that matters is how I view and value myself. I can’t force other people to value me, and I choose how I let it effect me when they reject me.
Yes, society doesn’t make it easy, but we all have a choice!!
Reblogged this on YouViewed/Editorial.
Reblogged this on U.S. Constitutional Free Press.
I agree partly with this article – but please, don’t decide that this is the sole solution to this problem.
Yes, these misogynistic ideas of entitlement need to end. But the main issue surrounding Elliot Rodger isn’t even about gender. It’s about someone who was MENTALLY ILL. Elliot Rodger believed the only way to cement his presence was to murder a group of people that he saw as a symbol of the “normality” that he couldn’t coexist with. Yes, you can make the argument that the shooting spree wouldn’t have happened if he hadn’t developed a misogynistic view of women and felt entitled to a relationship, but also realize that Rodger was insane. He didn’t actually have the ability to deal with his feelings of inferiority, and so he decided to take it out on attractive women. The issue here isn’t so much the conception that men are entitled to women as much as genuine mental illness. This article has strong ideals, and there are certainly injustices in our society that we need to deal with, but let’s also not forget to examine mental illness as a whole. It wasn’t just misogyny that Rodger to do what he did.
The kid has anti-social personality disorder. He thinks what he is doing is right and comical to “punish them for what they deserve”. The kids fucked up. I am assuming, the parents knew somewhat as they got therapists but never a psychologist or psychiatrist. They did not want to know what was wrong, they just wanted it fixed.
He did not have antisocial personality disorder, otherwise he would have good manipualting and social skills. HE did not , if you ever care to read his manifesto
Reblogged this on The Liberal's Guide to the Galaxy.
“Nice guys” don’t become mass-murderers. This is a story of a sociopath who did not get adequate mental health care. That is the conversation we need to have – how to deal with mental illness in society.
He probably never kissed or had sex with a girl because he was a huge porn addict who didn’t know how to interact with women in real life because he lived In a fantasy land. And watching porn gave him unrealistic expectations about women, ie, what they should look like and how they should act. It’s a classic story of a narcissist porn addict. Porning is destroying our world and lives.
Reblogged this on kayeliza and commented:
Brilliant perspective.
I often worry that our society has “softened” to a point that verges on delusional. We sympathize with monsters and blame everything else but the person for their own misconduct.
I perhaps sympathize that the boy was so troubled and lonely. But I sympathize with his family more, because they must cope with what he did. Even more than that though, I sympathize with his victims and their families.
This boy had deep issues and while it is sad to know he was clearly so lost and troubled, he should not be viewed as a victim.
this has nothing to do with anyone’s ideas of relationships or about sexism or the media.
this guy was fucking crazy and nobody noticed. it’s more his parent’s fault for not realising how depressed and lonely he was, than any of that stuff you talk about in this article.
also lets not forget – he was supposed to be on medication and seeing multiple psychologists and WAS ALLOWED TO GO BUY GUNS (nice laws America)
I find it amazing that we’re going to blame the gun laws considering I haven’t found anything that indicates that he bought them legally. I was raised with guns, and I honestly don’t know anyone who has gone out with a legally purchased gun and mascaraed people because of their own personal problems. It’s a matter of mental control. You can can make bombs with cleaning supplies, beat them to death with a baseball bat or frying pan, or could kill them with a million other very legal things. Outlawing guns won’t make stupid people be smarter.
Ok, so apparently he did purchase the guns legally. However I know plenty of people with anger problems and gun permits that have not committed a mass killing!
James – thank you for posting this. As a woman, we need more male voices to join with ours to end the deep (and often ignored) misogynistic tendencies of so many of our men. I am not glad that this young man did what he did. I am glad that it has brought out men who understand what we, as women, are saying at last. I am so glad that there are male voices standing up for us, standing *with* us, and saying enough is enough. It means so much because for far too long, women have been silenced in one way or another with our insights and complaints. Our voices have not been heard. It is with the help of men that we will finally be able to break out of the constricting mold that we are placed in from birth and be recognized as not just equal, but human. Thank you, from one human heart to another.
I am so glad there is a dialogue going on regarding this. I appreciate your thoughts and agree this needs to be talked about. I encourage people to think even further than Elliot’s loneliness and hatred for women. In his manifesto he is articulate, insightful and thorough as he described his childhood. He himself pin points where it all begin to go wrong for him. He remembers his childhood as a happy one until his parents divorce. The Center for Disease control uses what are called Aces to measure childhood trauma and divorce is one of 10 aces. This done not mean every child of divorce is going to be a mass murderer, but it does tell us that there is enough research and evidence that it IS a trauma that it needs to be handled intentionally and with great care for the child. Elliot notes that his father remarried with out warning very quickly after divorce. This would have given Elliot very little time to grieve and process the loss of his nuclear family. For a child this is huge. He then goes on to share a split one week on, one week off custody agreement between his parents. During the times his father was hardly there and he did not have a good relationship with his step mother. As a result he spent hours and hours alone in his room playing Warcraft video games. He is insightful enough to write about discovering pornography at an extremely young age and becoming obsessed before his mind could really even understand sex or how it all worked. These two factors I believe had a great deal to do with his extreme loneliness and how he viewed woman. In situations like this, it is not simple enough to say he had mental illness. His DNA might have wired him to be prone to mental health, but I see several childhood factors that brought him to yesterday. As a society e need to put more time and focus onto family, parenting, community and support so that children like this don’t get passed over. I know that his parents sought help in later years, but my guess is the damage was done much, much earlier.
He blames everyone except himself. He says he was “cast out”….bull shit man. It aint that hard to go make friends and be social. This kid does not deserve to be talked about…he is a psycho
I’m about 1/4 through his manifesto. It amazes me how shallow feminists are. This kid had a wide range of problems that contributed to his actions, and all they can do is selfishly focus on their own narrow ideological agendas. One thing I find interesting is how the operant conditioning used on him in elementary school seemed to heighten his awareness of his imperfections and contribute to his insecurities.
Oh, and congratulations to those of you who can’t relate to being alienated to the point where you develop tunnel vision and can’t see past your pain. So kind of you to use your fortunate position to deny Rodger empathy and bully those of us who just might be able to sympathize with what he went through.
completely agree (with your first paragraph)
He blames some girl at 11 years old….11!! “ruined a part of his life”. 11 freakin years old! Are you kidding me?! I really can’t even begin to take that seriously. Talk about holding a grudge from middle school for the rest of his life. His parents should have paid more attention to him and get him involved with extra curricular activities or even sports. It could have helped instill some life values and learn about being mentally strong.
I do empathize with his pain. I have gone through my own rejection. However all of us have a choice as to how it shapes us.
He was the one who made it about women when he targeted them with his hatred, not shallow feminists.
The question that arises in the minds of many women now is this: What next? What other mentally ill self-entitled man is going to go on a shooting spree because he’s not secure in himself?
NO woman should feel the need to stroke a man’s ego sexually or non-sexually in order to keep him in the right mind and sedated.
He deserves no sympathy – what a fucking coward.
completely agree
yea lets go ahead and talk about him like the idiots we are, then we can project him to the fame he sought, then we can get a copycat killer in a few months and start all over again!
You’re saying that not all men have the possibility of attracting a woman. You’re saying that these men are going to die a lonely existence and never pass on their genes.
Can you provide the quote from me where I said that? I can’t seem to find it in the article. Thanks!
It’s an implied and indirect statement. I’ll explain it here as best I can but this statement can be taken the wrong way. Article says “No man is entitled to any woman. No man inherently “deserves” a woman’s attention, body, or heart.”
Now, I get what your point of that was. You mean that nobody should feel entitled to connecting with another when the feelings or interest isn’t reciprocated back. That’s true and I agree.
I’d say that all people do deserve an equal partner in life. I think that all people should find “the one” that they deserve to live a happy life. But it has to be equal and mutual feelings towards eachother.
I think it’s just a shitty society in which there are some men out there who lose in the dating game. There are those that are unwanted and unloved, no matter what they do to try changing their circumstances.
But if we look at it realistically… we’re all animals with evolved brains. Things aren’t going to be fair.
I’m with you. I agree that people should be loved and respected – that’s why I started this website in the first place. In fact, out of 250+ articles you will find quite a few on that very topic, echoing many of your thoughts above.
I feel that this is a different issue from being “entitled” – as being entitled to something infers that one should be given a “thing” they are deserving of. When speaking about consensual relationships this is obviously not the case as we are dealing with free choice from both partners – something which Elliot did not agree with (his manifesto states women’s partners should be “chosen for them”).
While I understand how the lines can be blurred when using words such as deserving and entitled, I do believe we understand each others’ messages and are generally on the same page.
Thanks again for your thoughtful comments.
– James
I see you’re familiar with PUA’s.
But have you heard about True Forced Loneliness or MGTOW?
It’s the opposite spectrum, it’s the guys who fail in the dating market. They are the betas, the nerds, the social outcasts. These are the ones that learned how to deal with life’s rejection in their own way and how to live a happy life and not go shoot everyone up. Also noted, it’s a rising phenomenon in the East, known as “Grass Eaters” who reject all notions of traditionalist relationships and expectations of society. I think it’s going to slowly take over the West.
I think what’s needed is more education on Men’s mental health.
And not a society that tells them to “man up” constantly. Men have real issues that need to be taken a look at and talked about… ignoring them may lead to events like this one.
This article should be entitled “Why we need to talk about mental illness” or “Why we need to talk about the portrayal of sex and relationships in media” but it should definitely not be titled “Why we should talk about Elliot Rodger”. We need to lay his name to rest and celebrate the lives of the people he killed and not mourn and lament the actions he took. The more we talk about HIM and not the problems he faced, the more we are compounding the problem.
Reblogged this on I Will Try This at Home.
Money could have bought him this. These are the exact moments prostitutes were made for
You sound just like one of the comments they posted a picture of in the article.
Thank you…..
I mean, he’s technically right. Prostitutes really only exist as a “profession” at all because of situations like this kid.
Also, I think some of those comments are just internet trolls, and while we’re on the topic of wrong emotions for this situation, has anyone seen (or cared about) all the posts and comments and stuff on the internet using this one 22 year old dickwad as an excuse to hate every single person who dares to have a dick?
THANK YOU JOSH!
http://i.imgur.com/tyTc1Nl.jpg
A hooker would get paid to leave. Exactly NOT what he was yearning for in his life.
Well, I thought it, but I didn’t say it 😉
Something I feel most people have neglected to mention was that he was planning this “retribution” as he called it for several months, this was NOT a random act of violence or someone lashing out, this was a calculated move on his part, albeit not well thought out. Whether he was mentally challenged or not is still up in the air but regardless of mental state we should be teaching ALL children to respect EVERYONE of every race, gender, orientation or background.
Stuff like this can build up over long periods of time. You have a moment of despair and plan for something you never think you’ll do, then another moment comes and you prepare for it, and then a third moment comes and you do it.
Honestly, I think that a big part of the problem is the loneliness. In this day and age, we can substitute the internet or TV shows or any number of other things for real human interaction. But eventually it comes down to one person without any real friends and a whole list of failures behind them. Our eternal use of facebook, twitter, texting, and everything else makes making actual friends much harder than it has ever been.
In the old days, people without friends would have nothing better to do than wander around looking for people they could hang out with. Nowadays, you can just google your interests and suddenly you have a group of a thousand people that do what you care about. And you feel a part of the community. Until you leave for a bit, and realize that nobody missed you, nobody noticed you were gone.
It’s thoughts like these that drive people over the edge. Maybe not to murder-suicide, not always, but certainly towards self-destructive behaviors.
I find it really hard to believe he had such a hard time kissing or having sex with a girl. Even without money, he doesn’t look that ugly.
It’s definitely not all about looks. You can tell by the way he speaks in his videos how dark and creepy he is. And it doesn’t seem like he would have been very good at hiding that in public. I wouldn’t want him around me. Hell no.
He could have gotten a girlfriend had he had a better attitude and stopped being so creepy. He was also going after the wrong women. The sorority houses had girls who didn’t want him. He should have just looked elsewhere.
Being unattractive isn’t the only problem in a world full of selfish people and neglected children that grow up looking for attention in the wrong ways to prove their own self worth based on other peoples ideals and lack of responsible parents people are gravely misguided and feel they can change a problem with being attractive and having money if he did not feel attractive or simply felt better about himself he will never appear to be to anyone else and that’s starts with love from your family and friends lack of those can make you feel unworthy and no matter what your mouth says you may feel torturous loneliness. But to kill and take away those who mean no real physicall harm to you there is no right in that.
Cry me a fucking river. What is this, the 1920s or something? Everyone needs to get the fuck over themselves and move the fuck on with this stereotypical sexist bullshit. Last time i checked, the only difference men and women have over eachother physically is our means of reproduction. Oh, and for those of you idiots who do not know what the hell that means…because i know some of you are here, i’ve read your dumbass comments…..means a man has a penis and a woman has a vagina. You people are so ignorant and just straight up uneducated. This kid did a terrible thing and some of you have the apparent blue balls to defend him? Everyone, whether on his side or not, need to stop trying to justify the situation and get the fuck over it because let us not forget, the people that actually fucking died because of him.
first of all if you think its purely the rejection that drove him to this you’re a moron obviously there are much deeper psychological issues affecting him and this just happens to be the the path that set him off and every repressed emotion released through. Much of what we get to know about people is only the tip of the iceberg, btw most of those comments you shared from people were people being facetious with sympathy. A good basis of comparison would be Ted Bundy or pretty much any serial killer but in Bundy’s case he went after women with a particularly similar trait (the similarity to an ex of his) but the fact of the matter is it wasn’t the breakup that turned him into a serial killer its wall all the incidents of his up bringing that shaped him into the monster he became as would be with this case, in my opinion it takes more than just being a virgin and a bruised ego to become a murderer.
Of course that’s true, it would take a lot more then that to push someone over the edge like that. But he wasn’t necessarily saying that a person would be in so delicate of a state of mind that he/she could be driven to such extremes over something so common. What he is pointing out is the wrongness of the fact that people both men and women responded with sympathy for the man who committed the crime. That the first response was anger towards the victims and not even the male victims, but the females. For not sleeping with a man they did not want too. That may, of course be an over simplification, but that is the heart of it isn’t it? As little as we know about him and as desperate as he may have been, whats sad about this situation – or rather what I believe this article to be about, is of course not his mental state or lack of, but the reaction of the public. The instant dismissal of the humanity of the girls injured. A women in not inherently sexual and the fact that our culture can not see this, is what is sad. This simple fact, is something that most in our society cannot comprehend.
Most people did not have anger towards any of the victims and the only reason any of that anger was expressed or heard is because social media gives a voice to the lowest of the low in our society but they are still a minority and are a very tiny fraction of American society as a whole. But because of social media being covered on the news and other classic media sources like TV and magazines these low life scumbags have a much louder voice then they used to have and they shouldn’t. 99.9% of the people in America have no hatred towards any of the victims so stop acting like psychopaths like these are representative of our culture as a whole because they are not. And this young man was troubled long before any of the reasons he talked about in his manifesto. Psycho’s are born not made and that has been proving time and time again. The difference between one who seeks treatment and one who acts on their animalistic nature is their upbringing, family and social life. Obviously his was one of chaos and turmoil and everything steamed and cooked inside of him until it hit a boiling point and that is when this tragedy occurred. But it saddens me that people are quicker to blame the gun, his parents, society or anything else besides who is truly guilty here. HIM. We need to stop blaming everything besides the person who committed these horrors. It was his fault and no one else’s. Just because someone is crazy or psycho does not absolve them of guilt..
Obviously there are underlying mental issues, but the point is that he took out his issues and his anger on WOMEN, for no reason other than that they are women. The point is that he felt entitled to these women and when he was rejected time and again, he murdered them. The point is that this is not an isolated incident, misogyny and hatred don’t happen in a vacuum, and until men are taught to treat women like people this will continue to happen again and again and again.
As for the comments, I don’t believe any of them were being facetious, and even if they were, it doesn’t matter. They’re furthering support of this bastard.
What it boils down to is, if he’d been taught to respect women, if society had taught him that women were people and not sex objects, this wouldn’t have happened.
Uh, no. FOUR of his six victims were MEN. Good ol’ Elliot had lots of issues, like wanting to be white and blond. Don’t make this solely a “women issue.
“Just saying…”
It clearly is not just about women. However, the men that he felt hatred for – it wasn’t because they were men. It was because they had women.
No K…the roommates were geeky like him. They didn’t have women. He killed them anyways.
Unfortunately, he said he was going to have to eliminate his roommates in order to have the house to himself and turn it into a “torture chamber” to bring other people to. It’s really unnerving how disturbed he was.
so he killed the male roommates like they were nothing, didn’t torture them or grasp any revenge on them, he didn’t care, but he then took the time to make a torture chamber and put in a lot of work to artisticly kill the women? he obviously just values women alot more than men, a concept chivalry and putting women first introduced,
He killed twice as many men as women. His stated goal was to get back at the girls, but if the KKK killed twice as many white people as black after announcing that they were going to kill lots of black people, wouldn’t it raise questions about their true motives?
And you’re right, Misogyny and hate don’t happen in a vacuum, you’re right. what you’re missing though is that lots of people in similar situations don’t develop the same problems. There is a certain predisposition to hate that can occur in a vacuum.
I think that your point that these things don’t happen in a vacuum is the real heart of the issue, that goes beyond this particular incident and this specific deranged guy. If our society on the whole, driven by media and cultural underpinnings, wasn’t oriented toward the support and propagation of these violent and misogynistic – to say nothing of entitled – views of sex and gender relations, then this troubled individual would never have been led to think these sorts of thoughts. And let’s please not pretend he is the only one who thinks this way. I agree that they weren’t joking in those comments, and even if they were, once again, that “humor” would not exist if it weren’t for the environment.
Not all men are like elliot, some men are taught how to respect women. and how is completely towards woemn? 4 of the 7 victims were men! he was just jealous of the people that were having lots of sex and he wasen’t
I absolutely agree with Jordan. Clearly he had some very serious issues growing up. Nothing excuses this type of behaviour, but it is clear that people like this had some type of abuse or extreme loneliness that send them insane. It is sad for everybody. Sad that he got to that state, sad that his family unit was such a mess it led to this and especially sad for the undeserving victims. The article is right except people forget that monsters are made, not born,
Actually, some people are born sociopaths; irregardless of upbringing. His parents and therapist knew he was a threat, notified police, police interviewed him and he seemed “fine”.
Thank you. This isn’t something to be used to promote feminism and put men in the light to be called pigs. This is a mental health health issue and the real discussion should be about how this country should re-evaluate mental health policies. Most insurance companies don’t cover costs for treatments/facilities, which is probably the main reason we have had an uproar in public shootings, violence, crime in the past decade.
While it’s true that this deeply relates to a mental health issue, it is also a human rights issue. Feminism isn’t for calling men pigs, it’s to call attention to the fact that there is still an equality problem for women in the world. This is a social issue. This boy’s crime wasn’t the social issue, however. The social issue is the public’s response to his crime: people feeling sympathy for and justifying the crimes of someone who murdered people who simply weren’t attracted to him (or had what he didn’t: someone to love them). The point is that there is no justifying this kind of behavior, whether it be blaming it on a lack of mental healthcare or blaming society’s misogynistic perspective. And feminism isn’t for separating men and women (i.e. saying men are pigs and all females are victims), but it is for making the world a place where everyone feels safe and can be themselves, free of fear. There are women who think in ways that are damaging to making themselves equals in society and there are men who push for women’s rights. That’s why I believe feminism should be renamed Gender Equality – isms are always associated with militant-like, negative thinking.
“it’s to call attention to the fact that there is still an equality problem for women in the world”
By saying that you are being a sexist. It is the case that men suffer similar problems (and different ones) but don’t seem to merit the same attention or response.
@MW – Calling attention to the fact that there is an equality problem does not make someone sexist. Yes, men suffer similar problems, but not even close to the same amount as women. If you’re doubting that take a hop over to Twitter and check out #yesallwomen. The point isn’t that some men have experienced harassment, or blatant sexism, or have been raped – the point is that at some point in their lives ALL women have experienced at least one of those things. Don’t minimize the struggle of every woman because some men have experienced it too.
Calling attention to the fact that there is an equality problem does not make someone sexist. Yes, men suffer similar problems, but not even close to the same amount as women. If you’re doubting that take a hop over to Twitter and check out #yesallwomen. The point isn’t that some men have experienced harassment, or blatant sexism, or have been raped – the point is that at some point in their lives ALL women have experienced at least one of those things. Don’t minimize the struggle of every woman because some men have experienced it too.
Wow. Just wow. I’ve never met a more uninformed individual on this topic in my life. There is so much wrong with your comment, I can’t even start replying to it. All I can say is that your sexism is so thoroughly embedded that you cannot even see it.
The problem is, as of late, feminism has become more associated with misandry and female superiority.
Equality and Feminism are now, in modern practice, two different chain of thoughts. a\
And @AB: what do you mean ALL? Last I checked the sexual harassment and assault rate was a bit lower than 100%. And in my experience there are no shortage of people that find sexism where there is none, so that should be thrown out on the basis of credibility.
Okay, the last time I checked, equal means exactly the same. And last time I checked, men and women physically and mentally are not EXACTLY the same. Why is it sexism when a company that requires heavy lifting, hires a man over a woman simply because he can physically carry more weight? It is simple math.
Stronger=more boxes moved
More boxes moved= more money. Simple. Easy. And the same goes for a bar but the opposite way. With an attractive woman at the counter, she can get guys to buy more drinks. Again, simple math. More drinks = more money. I will never EVER agree with equality, I do however, understand that there are some jobs that men are just better at. I also agree there are jobs that women are better at. I think we try too much to make things “perfect” and “equal” in this damn country, that we don’t realize it’s much more efficient to stick to your personal skills. If your a woman that can bench 300 lbs and has thighs bigger than my head, go ahead and apply for the construction job or what ever you want that requires physical strength. But if women wanted to be treated equal, they need to be willing to make them selves physically capable of doing the same amount of work as a man. Same goes the other way. We were not created equal, so stop trying to force us to be equal, and focus instead on your personal strengths as an individual!
well put. a mere “i can’t get laid” excuse is pathetic! if that’s all it is, grow the heck up and focus on something more important!
I’m not sure if you missed the little note at the end, but he DID acknowledge that he originally commented on Rodger’s psychological stability, but had it removed due to lack of evidence.
He probably had a sense of entitlement. Driving a BMW that he obviously didn’t work for. Probably had every thing handed to him and never had to work for anything, including relationships. When he didn’t get his way, tantrums. A spoiled kid who surely had issues.
You can have sympathy without it meaning you agree with what he did. As a 35(!) year old virgin, I know full well the frustration and sadness that comes with not being able to find companionship, while witnessing it around you virtually every day, and wondering if it’s something wrong with yourself. That doesn’t mean I want to go out and kill people, or think someone in the same situation should. Obviously, there were deeper mental issues at play here, especially with the way he viewed himself as superior. As disturbing as what he did is, it’s also disturbing that people are reacting as if this is a common thing that all men in general are capable of. Feminists are already twisting this for use in hate-filed anti-men rhetoric, and it’s disgusting.
Feminism is equality for women AND men, purely equal. no one gets special rights, no one gets special treatment. Anything you see being shown otherwise is NOT feminism. If you believe that men and women should be completely equal, then you, yourself, are a feminist.
No, feminism is, by definition, about the rights of women. So someone who lobbies for women’s rights but ignores men’s rights issues is still totally a feminist.
Devin Morse: fem·i·nism noun \ˈfe-mə-ˌni-zəm\
: the belief that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities
: organized activity in support of women’s rights and interests
Feminism is inherently in the interests of women, with the end goal being EQUALITY. Not superiority.
Let us break down the meaning of the word feminist.
The word Femin (comes from the latin word Femina) meaning of the female gender.
The phrase ist (comes from the latin word ista) meaning one who holds bigoted personal views
So lets say the definition of Feminist all together now: One who holds bigoted views pertaining of the female gender.
Why is it that feminists called themselves FEMINists rather than HUMANists? Aren’t we all fighting for the equal rights of humanity? As soon as a person labels themselves a feminist, it is like they are saying that they wish to fight only for the particular rights of the female race.
Think about all the other types of (ists) we find close minded in the world. RACISTS, EVANGELISTS, SOCIALISTS, COMMUNISTS. You see the point I’m getting at? By calling yourself a feminist, its like saying you are bias and prescribing to only one particular type of rights advocacy.
“Felicia”
You may find feminism an exclusionary term, and surely it can be looked at as so. However, the movement had to begin as such and had to be labelled so specifically because if it wasn’t, it wouldn’t have been strong enough to tackle the intense misogyny and sexism the way that it did. Humanism isn’t useful because in this case it’s an inaccurate use of the word – it is a secular worldview. Humanists generally do believe in equal rights for all people, but that’s not what “humanism” is about. Humanism IS NOT an alternative to feminism, it is a complex world view.
To the Devin guy…. I always laugh when men cry about ” WHAT ABOUT OUR RIGHTS.”… YOu men have had rights for thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of years……… You had right that women only dreamed about having…….. And to this day women still experience men who think they are living in the 19th century and beyond… To this day in other countries, we still have men that will kill a woman if she doesn’t do what she’s told and its OK and acceptable……. I am a petite, young attractive female I would say.. And I work in the Oil patch business; a predominately male run line of work.. And I have had a man on a dating site ream me out and tell me that my place wasnt there on the patch. It was a place for men and he was sick and tired of seeing women taking jobs from men and that it literally made him want to go and punch each of those women in the face till they left… I think sometimes that there is a deep underlying mental issue in most men in the world….. I support the You hit me I hit you logic…. I Support that women should make JUST AS MUCH if not more if they deserve it in their jobs.. I support that women can say NO to whoever they want when it comes to choosing companion relationships.. No women should live in fear … And nor any man either….
I prefer not to label myself as a feminist. Just because I believe in equal rights for both men and women I’m suddenly a feminist? You must be joking.
Yes! But let’s admit it: feminism is an expired word. It has negative connotations attached to it. Gender equality is a much more accurate phrasing. “I am an advocate for gender equality” – It rings so nicely.
@Aly I’m far from being a Mens Rights Activist, and am currently living in a fairly rural part of Japan where I see some pretty ass-backwards thinking that pisses me off daily. (Don’t get me started, it’s a discussion for another time.) But what I will say is that, from personal experience, there are many instances where the culture that’s been created in America is not exactly equal and actually favors women over men. I’m referring to how sexual assault is handled at a lot of different colleges, specifically the small LAC in the northeast (where I went). While I admit this is a fraction of the population, it’s still a reason for concern for me since, as a male student-athlete and member of a greek society, I was forced on more than one occasion to attend seminars explaining “my” implicit role in “rape culture” solely due to my choice to join those organization. Let alone the fact that I, at one point in my college career, was part of a situation that, by many definitions, could be considered “sexual assault” at the hands of a female, I was still the villain because I fit the statistical mold for a sexual assailant. And If it ever came down to he said vs she said? You can bet I’d receive no sympathy or support from the college.
Again, I understand that the majority of instances in the United States do not give the women the support they need, but if a movement is going to try to overhaul an entire society’s (admittedly messed up) views on something like sexual assault, it needs to fight for ALL victims, men and women, and needs to perpetuate the idea that, yes, woman can sexually assault men as well.
Why call it “feminism”? (People complain about words like “mankind” (as being sexist), but “feminism” (root word “female”) is supposedly the ‘equality movement’.)
Regardless, the term is so weighed down as to be an almost useless word. I prefer “egalitarian” – there isn’t as much anti-male, gynocentric, and/or female chauvinism associated with the word.
The problem is the word feminist has been used by those who activley seek to oppress men, and they are vocal about it, claiming to be feminist
I think that the term implies you are thinking only of female rights, not equality, (Which is why I sometimes consider myself an anti-feminist.)
I support equal rights for both genders, which is why I am anti-feminist, if that makes sense.
“Feminism” was, I think, a very poor choice of name. The word itself implies preference for the female sex, or placing women above men, when it’s really about equality and fairness. It really should have been given a more accurate name like Gender Equalism or Anti-subordination or something. We’d gain more ground that way.
I second what Joe35 says, couldn’t have said it much better. so x2. but if I can add: I can relate to the misery of being alone. Todays whoredom of the modern man and woman is disgusting, I find it hard to tolerate personally but I don’t feel vengeful. but it does make me feel grossed out and hopeless/wretched/deplorable. if I could put that into one word… This video made me sick to my stomach though, it was hard to watch. Definitely some mental issues, with how he thought he was superior going on.
wow…35…dam…thats rough…the pussy must look like the most valuable diamond man has ever seen by now…get a couple low quality fcks out of the way…then move up…or move to a third world country…dudes issues in this article obviously stem deeper then the virgin thing…if it wasnt that then hed complain his childhood sucked…if not that…then mommy doesnt love him…regardless 35 is too old son…ur gonna set the record soon…prolly culd shake the fuck outta a can of paint by now tho
Why would you say something like that? What’s the matter with you?
Why would you say something like that? What’s the matter with you?
You’ve heard of the Sexual Revolution, no? James’ comment is a product of that.
Go look back at things written in the 1950s (aka “the Dark Ages”) – you won’t find things like that.
It’s disheartening to see the comment section to this article and discover that indeed many men find sympathy with Elliot. Most likely the guy was rejected because he was delusional and it showed, not because he was a “gentlemen” of any kind. Really good guys don’t treat women nice and then promptly ask for their sex reward, and true men of any kind don’t take out their misplace anger in some savage killing spree. Real men look at women and see people, not objects to own, and they recognize that the world owes them nothing at all. Good job with this post and keep writing on!
Really good guys don’t treat women nice and then promptly ask for their sex reward, and true men of any kind don’t take out their misplace anger in some savage killing spree. Real men look at women and see people, not objects to own, and they recognize that the world owes them nothing at all.
No True Scotsman?
Are you begging the question?
Logic isn’t your forte, is it now?
I recommend reading a bit on the subject. I’ll wait, if you’d like.
While this is all true, that was definitely not THE cause of the attacks. Mental illness, gun laws, AND entitlement are the culprits, but it was not just one of these. There are many people who are unfortunately raised with misogyny, but most of them do not carry out attacks like this because they are not at such a radical stage of mental illness.
What he said in the video was horrifying and there definitely (as always) needs to be a discussion on such an important matter such as gender-equality (which is ridiculous that the phrase even has to exist), but here’s the thing:
We need to pin-point all of the problems, and blaming the situation on misogyny alone is clearly not the only motivation for this horrible act. Making THE reason for the sake of gender-equality (which I believe in wholeheartedly) is kind of radical and opportunistic. We need to be rational in situations like these and not agenda-oriented. However, as we all know, it’s very easy to be agenda-oriented on the internet and a hell of a lot harder in real-life, so I’m not truly afraid for this article.
ON A MORE PERSONAL AND OPINIONATED NOTE:
By the way, by using sympathy we can understand what caused this to happen in the first place. I feel bad for this kid that he was at such a place that he did what he did, and you relating by saying you lost your virginity at 22 is very much not the same, and is not evidence for your dismissal of his probably unfortunate life circumstances that led to this tragic event. Do I think his deeds were unforgivable and absolutely appalling? Yes. But if all we do is villainize these situations and don’t understand them (as we have for the past 11) we’ll never be able to prevent the next one.
And let me tell you the worst news: there will be a next one… and we’re probably going to blame it on one thing too… and then someone will think, “Yay, I made a step in my own agenda!” And then another will happen… and then the cycle repeats until we do something about the whole thing.
Which we’re not.
So have fun blaming the situation on one thing so that you may have a better argument for something you believe in, but on the whole this article does nothing but ignore the actual problem kids with guns in their hands and pointed to their face are facing.
This article is just as bad as most of the arguments of the NRA. It’s not the whole thing! It’s just ONE thing! It’s not guns, it’s mental illness; it’s not mental illness, it’s misogyny; it’s not misogyny, it’s white-male entitlement!
What about all of it?
Sound hard to chew on?
It is. That’s life. It’s not one answer.
Smiles,
AnnoyedWithAgendas
And by the way, four of them were men, you moron.
Think about realities before you post your agenda-based crap for the world to share and spread.
Love,
AnnoyedWithAgendas…Again
And by the way, three were stabbed to death. Some victims were hit by his car but not killed. Others were shot. I don’t really see how gun control can be argued when there isn’t knife control or driver’s license control.
Guns aren’t even a modicum of the issue here. Their only fault is being more efficient at causing death when used. However, he didn’t start with a gun when he stabbed his roommates. He didn’t shoot the people he barreled over in his shiny car.
I can agree that there are many issues to this, but gun control? Yeah right.
Did you read the article? Specifically the part in which the author mentioned the men he killed and the connection that has to his overall theory?
Very well written article. Very disturbing acts and comments. And *most* of the men I have discussed sexual histories with have been virgins until 21-23 at least. It’s not unusual, and even being a virgin till 80 wouldn’t entitle you to murder.
I also fully believe that receiving sexual or romantic attention would not have helped this person, ultimately. With this sense of entitlement, it is very likely he would be disappointed in whoever he was with and take it out on them or others. Not to mention the way he could react if/when the relationship ended would most likely be the same.
No person, of any gender, should expect romance to fix them and fulfill them. You can very easily be more lonely in a relationship than out of one – especially if you put such emphasis on it defining you and your life.
Love is a gift, not a right. And it’s often a dangerous, unenviable gift at that.
+1
And *most* of the men I have discussed sexual histories with have been virgins until 21-23 at least.
There are more male virgins than female virgins after 24.
And yes, there’s a source for that (ignore the title, BTW):
Eisenberg, Michael L., et al. “Who is the 40‐Year‐Old Virgin and Where Did He/She Come From? Data from the National Survey of Family Growth.” The journal of sexual medicine 6.8 (2009): 2154-2161.
This isn’t about teaching our boys jack shit. This is about people with a mental illness, flip the genders and would you say we needed to teach our girls not to force shit onto men? No you wouldn’t you sexist piece of shit.
“Sexist Writer”
It’s not so black and white. Nothing is. This IS quite clearly a display of how our society is still in such transition with how it views and treats its women. We aren’t as advanced as we would like to think.
And of course, no it wasn’t just rejection from women that led to this otherwise we would see this every goddamn day – he was very ill mentally.
But the fact is that mental illness shows us a lot about ourselves – it is a mirror to our reality. We are the problem.
Anyway, if a girl had done this – no – he wouldn’t say “we need to teach our girls” because it would not be weighed down by an intense history of male oppression. It’s not sexist, it’s reality.
Okay, but, dude, women’s equality is still not so equal…
Is this to me? What does that mean?
women’s equality is still not so equal
What is ‘equality’? I’m curious as to your definition of it.
You can look at this case from any angle you want, mental health, misogyny, gun rights, etc. The fact is that nobody will ever know exactly why Elliott Rodger did what he did. Last I checked 4 out of the 6 victims were males, so please don’t make this solely about women.
Did you read? He killed those men because THEY HAD WOMEN. He didn’t kill the men because they were men.
What I am about to write goes beyond what this article is saying and what most people are commenting on. The situation goes WAY BEYOND being a virgin at 22 and having “discussions” with other men who are still virgins are absolutely pointless unless they are suffering from a mental disability. These killings have a lot more to do with being rejected by women and feeling “entitled” to women. Many people who are criticizing or sympathizing (on this blog and other columns) with Elliot Rodger are not seeing the whole picture. Many of you are just seeing the youtube video and his crimes. First, as a parent of a child with Autism, the first and real issue we need to look at is his diagnosis with Asperger’s. Any parent or sibling who has lived or living with someone with this social disorder knows that anyone who is labeled on the Autism Spectrum knows that individuals who have this diagnosis do not think and respond the same way as normal functioning people. I wont spend a whole page writing about this social disorder but I do encourage people to look this up. Its a growing concern and more and more people are being diagnosed to being on the spectrum.
With that being said, I am extremely sad at the entire situation. My heart goes out to the families of all the lost ones, all of them being so young and full of potential. Before making any judgements on Elliot Rodger and his family (I was initially more critical of his family after I watched the youtube videos and the initial reports) but after I read Elliot Rodger’s manifesto…i am extremely sympathetic for this person. Again, we must understand that he does not think and function like you and I. This person was on the Autism Spectrum Disorder and is unable to cope with certain feelings. His issues started long before rejection of women and driving a bmw. It starts with not having friends (except a childhood video game companion)….being unable to make friends (not knowing the proper social cues to meet people). He was bullied throughout grade school and high school. Being laughed at by both boys and girls, he was called names like “faggot” because he was afraid to approach girls at an early age. His first female crush made fun of him and hated him. Guys labeled him the weirdest kid in school and was constantly being physically bullied and labeled weird. The family had to change high schools multiple times and ended up with home school and continuation school. I also feel being from a well off family gave him a sense of entitlement which probably contributed to the “narcissism”. Am i justifying this for what Elliot Rodger’s did? Absolutely NOT……but these situations go way beyond what the person writing this blog suggests.
With that being said……as a parent, I think we need to make everyone aware that it goes beyond having easy access to guns (he still killed 3 people with a sharp object and injured others with his car), it goes beyond being rejected by women (the 3 killed in his apartment and the young man shot at the deli were men and probably did not fit into the alpha male category, they were just “in the way” of a bigger plan), it goes beyond someone killing because he never “got laid”.
Its about being bullied with a mental disorder such as aspergers. It is heartbreaking because anyone with a child that is on the spectrum will almost for sure encounter there child being teased, picked on, laughed at, rejected, beat up, and isolated. Reading Elliot Rodger’s manifesto was extremely sad. It is sad because I put my child in his position, being so happy from early childhood to 11…and then reading about his downward spiral….a child that was loving, happy and enjoyed life…turning his feelings into hatred, jealousy, envy and vengence. As a parent, I need to make sure 100% that my child does not experience the type of torment Elliot Rodger received as a child. Its about spending time with them and making sure they are ready for a world outside of your home, even then….it may not be enough…..
I suggest anyone who thinks this is just a simple case of a rejected 22 year old male having easy access to weapons do a bit more research on mental disorders and bullying. Normal children who have experienced bullying commit suicide or lead trouble lives. Not everyone is strong enough to bounce back and deal with bullying. Now imagine that being someone with a mental/social disorder. What he did was wrong and that should never be overlooked, the true victims are the lives Elliot Rodger’s took, but that wont bring the people he killed back. What we need to, to prevent more of these type of murders is to start understanding people with these mental disabilities and be more sympathetic and understanding before they turn out to be a danger to society. Parents with “normal” children should teach their child to accept and tolerate at an early age. Its about compassion and acceptance. I want to end this on a separate article I read where a child with mental disabilities who had a 5% chance of living at birth played on his high school football and basketball team. Being loved, respected and welcomed by his high school and teammates. This special needs teenager is happy and grateful and that starts with people like his high school coach and teammates.
It made me wonder that if Elliot Rodger’s had a similar type of acceptance in his High School, if he ever would have went down this dark path and 7 lives would have been spared…..many can learn to love and respect people if there is less bullying at an early age and more acceptance.
I don’t believe this article even mentioned that he had any sort of medical condition. However I looked it up and according to NBC news he was indeed diagnosed with Asperger’s syndrome. This makes me cringe at the article above and at all the people claiming this article is so “great”. I don’t think I will take the time to read his 140+ page manifesto but at least you looked at it before judging the situation.
It really makes me wonder why this comment has no replies given that this you provide a completely different and viable view of the situation. People should really take the time to actually know the situation before coming to conclusions. Thanks for the info and bravo on one of the most informing and neural comments I’ve seen thus far.
Asperger, you nailed it with your response. Anyone who knows someone who has a child with autism would have the same reaction as you did to this tragedy. Children with Asperger have a hard time understanding things that everyone else has no problem understanding. They also do not easily socialize with people which becomes very difficult for them when they hit puberty (which is the point at which all of Elliot’s problems began). If someone really wants to know what Elliot Rodger experienced they should read his 140-page manifesto. It is an amazing read!
The target audience for the manifesto were his parents, therapists and psychologists. He emailed the manifesto right before he went on the killing spree. He uploaded the Retribution video to his YouTube account at exactly the same time. He knew it would be too late for them to stop him at that point. The parents hadn’t even checked their email until one of the Therapists called the Mother to tell her about it. The Mother saw the Retribution video on YouTube and then called the Father. They both got in a car and left for Santa Barbara, but it’s a long drive. They apparently called the police at that point, but that was well after the email had been sent and the video had been posted.
The manifesto was his way of explaining to his parents and therapists how he got to such a state of mind. I think he wanted to ensure something like this did not occur again in the future to some other child suffering from Asperger. It is amazing that failure to relate to and interact with others socially and being bullied can have such consequences on a person with Asperber’s later on in life.
He went to an expensive school? Get this fact straight: he attended SBCC, the city college. NOT UCSB.
I believe that the world has far to much sympathy and empathy for someone who took other peoples lives when it was not their fault he was so miserable. If everyone dealt with their personal anguish in the manner that Elliot did then the world would have a lot less people in it, and not for the better. Yes, all people deal with pain in different ways some are acceptable some are not but the point that I took from this article is that the boys (yes boys because if they were men they wouldn’t accept what he did like that) who sympathized with him were basically saying that it was ok he killed those men and women for not having sex with him and for the men for having sex. IT IS NOT OK THAT HE TOOK PEOPLES LIVES! Life should be cherished and prized because we only get one chance. Sadly not everyone thinks like this because they have had difficult lives but speaking as someone who has tried to take the “easy” way out because my life wasn’t very easy since I was 6 (now 27) people need to think about what they say and how it affects the ones around them. Guys would you say that it was ok if someone raped and or killed your mother or sister (if you have one) because they didn’t want him? Probably not if you’re a decent person.
Jesus Christ commands you to love you fellow sinner. Disobey God at your own peril. It is because of your intolerance and hatred that Elliot Rodger was created to be such a monster. Now you are suffering the consequences of our society’s immorality. Show love and affection for your fellow man as God commands, or continue to suffer the consequences.
Ok, this article is well written and brings very good points to the table, but the whole picture needs to be portrayed before anyone can develop an informed and educated opinion about the whole ordeal.
First of all, anybody in an extreme psychological state needs to receive sympathy. Sympathy and intense treatment. Treatment before judgement. I am not saying that his actions were justified, absolutely not, but he is closer to being mentally ill than anything else. Would you say about somebody, “Don’t sympathize with that stranger throwing a tantrum. He has schizophrenia”? You obviously wouldn’t, you would feel bad for him, so the same is with the case here, His actions seem to have clouded peoples’ perception on what the REAL issue at hand was here.
*Warning*: A MAJOR CONTROVERSIAL POINT IS GOING TO BE BROUGHT UP NEXT. IT IS MY HONEST OPINION, AND I AM SURE THAT A LARGE MAJORITY WOULD AGREE WITH ME. BUT IF YOU ARE OFFENDED BY CONTROVERSIAL OPINIONS, STOP READING HERE!
Secondly, Elliot Roger is a classic example of someone being rejected time and time again and teased time and time again, and eventually the male sexual energies just explode. It is that powerful of a force. As Napoleon Hill said, it is the strongest driving force on the planet. So when women dress “sexy” just to be sexy, and wind up being a tease for men, especially when they are purposely playing the sexual power game, they are playing with these forces, it is akin to playing with fire. Just because it is NOT RIGHT for men to pass boundaries just based on sexual frustrations and loneliness (as I wholeheartedly agree), this doesn’t change the reality that many men DO, regardless of the questionable moral implications that one transmits while behaving in such a manner. It is like, dangling meat in front of a hungry tiger and getting angry that it attacked you. And yes, I just made that comparison. At the base of it all, you are playing with very powerful primal urges that shouldn’t be played with. Most men are civilized enough NOT to even come close to to Roger’s level, BUT do you really want to be taking that risk when you know very well that constantly rejecting men just to regain power over them in general could cause such issues? This is food for thought for women who are for women’s rights and such the world over. Yes, no man is entitled to you or your body, but stop trying to tempt and tease men. This will solve a lot of issues.
I’m not offended, and I know it’s your opinion, but hear this side of things: Are women supposed to never dress in ways that are attractive, or flirt or dance with any man because of the risk of him taking it too far? This happens to women regardless of what they’re wearing, doing or what their desires are. The problem here is on men. Women shouldn’t need to behave a certain way so that men can control themselves.
Thankfully, I know that most men have brains and are perfectly capable of controlling themselves. Rogers and any man who take it too far have no excuse, even if they have been teased by a woman. They have brains and consciences and can and should control themselves.
This happens to women regardless of what they’re wearing, doing or what their desires are.
Uh, no, it does not.
It varies quite a bit based on what women are wearing (and where they are, etc). Incidentally, whether a man gets mugged or not also varies based on what he wears. I don’t hear the outcry from that latter statement being made.
I can’t seem to reply to MW. @ MW:
“”This happens to women regardless of what they’re wearing, doing or what their desires are.”
Uh, no, it does not.
It varies quite a bit based on what women are wearing (and where they are, etc). ”
Uh, yes it does happen. If a person wants to rape/abuse/force themselves onto another person it will happen regardless of what that person is or is not wearing. This is an EXCUSE that abusers use because it is victim blaming. The victim was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. No one is ever ‘asking’ to be abused.
So in your view, it is the female’s fault because they ‘dressed too provocatively’ or differently? So in your opinion males cannot control their urges based on what females wear? You have a very poor outlook on both genders there.
If a person wants to rape/abuse/force themselves onto another person it will happen regardless of what that person is or is not wearing.
Yet, for some reason, there is a correlation between what women are wearing and the incident count of sexual harassment, e.g.: Beiner, Theresa M. “Sexy Dressing Revisited: Does Target Dress Play in a Part in Sexual Harassment Cases.” Duke J. Gender L. & Pol’y 14 (2007): 125.
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This is an EXCUSE that abusers use because it is victim blaming.
This is a logic fail. Why are you responding to something that wasn’t even said?
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The victim was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. No one is ever ‘asking’ to be abused.
Why are you responding to something that wasn’t even said?
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So in your view, it is the female’s fault because they ‘dressed too provocatively’ or differently? So in your opinion males cannot control their urges based on what females wear? You have a very poor outlook on both genders there.</i.
*facepalm* Wow. You're sticking way too close to your script. How about reading what I wrote instead of jumping to a generic response. How about you show me how you came to your conclusion that I share that/those view(s).
Here's a challenge for you (in more ways than one): show quotes of what I've written to support your interpretations above. If your replies are inadequate (and, let's be real, you have no basis for your claims above), please don't expect a response.
There Aint NO PUSSY like NO PUSSY…hate all u want…facts of life
Reblogged this on Muted Me.
Yes, let’s teach our children those things. How about we also teach them that when you’re male, your worth is not determined by the amount of women that are attracted to you.
I totally agree Joseph, that’s why I said that exact thing in many of my articles. Thanks for your feedback!
– James
How about we also teach them that when you’re male, your worth is not determined by the amount of women that are attracted to you.
And vice-versa?
I think the problem with this incident being used as part of the feminist movement, such as in the #YesAllWomen campaign, is that this attitude is a social norm among men. It isn’t. Men who feel entitled to women and feel like women aren’t interested in them “because they are nice” are looked down upon by other men as excuse makers. Only the naive teenage boy and pathetic losers who still haven’t gotten laid use this excuse as a cop out. Sadly, the majority of pathetic losers can be found on the Internet, because why go out and improve yourself to make yourself more attractive to women when you can bitch on the Internet instead?
A lot has been said about men having a sense of entitlement, that any woman should date him if he wants it bad enough. While I won’t deny that these men exist, a similar number of women with the same ideology exist. These are the ones who say things like “there are no good men anymore”, when the fact of the matter is why should a good man be obligated to date you? Acting like this is a “male entitlement” issue is complete blasphemy.
This man clearly had some severe psychological issues, and his actions were reprehensible. However, to act as if his insane ideals fall in line with the entire male gender is ridiculous. And to say things like we have to “teach boys not to rape” is almost insulting, as if to say rape is something that any average man will do if not taught otherwise.
Jon, the #YesAllWomen campaign was specifically a response to the sentiment “Not all men…” echoed in your statement that the problem is implying that “this is a social norm among men.” The attitudes expressed in this article are not saying that this the norm among men, nor is #YesAllWomen. The point is that it’s enough of a problem that all women are threatened by it – none of the women killed had personally rejected him. Additionally, rape statistics are so high that teaching boys not to rape certainly can’t hurt, and would work better than only teaching women to protect themselves. The point is: men DO perpetuate these crimes. Not all men, but some men. It’s still important to talk about the societal issues that cause (some) men to see women as objects, not equals.
pathetic losers who still haven’t gotten laid
BTW, this kind of attitude feeds into men valuing themselves based on partner count, which leads (in part) to things like the Rodger shooting.
I completely disagree with this article. Eliot Rodger was a deranged sociopath with an extreme sense of entitlement, and that is why he went on a killing spree. He was severely mentally ill and probably not receiving adequate treatment for whatever his mental illness was. In fact, just about every mass murderer has some sort of documented mental illness, and the vast majority of them are on some sort of psyhiatric medications, some of which have bad side effects that lower the inhibitions and cause violent, aggressive, and suicidal tendencies. I just wish people in the media would wake up to the fact that mental illness is real and can be just as deadly as cancer if not treated properly, and stop blaming things like this on stupid crap like sexual frustration or violent TV and video games. Lots of men are sexually frustrated, but they don’t go out and commit mass murder.
Hi Dan,
I’m a bit confused – first you say you completely disagree and then you echo my opinion that “Lots of men are sexually frustrated, but they don’t go out and commit mass murder.”
Are you familiar with how exactly he was “severely mentally ill”? Because I’ve been hearing conflicting reports of any sort of diagnosis. He seemed to be lucid and well spoken in his videos as well as his 140+ page manifesto.
Always looking to obtain more information about new developments.
Thanks for sharing your opinion!
– James
I must have misunderstood something, so I apologize. I do have a lot of experience with people with mental illness, both personally and professionally, and I can tell you that some of them can appear just like you and I. They can be very lucid and function well in society. They aren’t always like the people you see on the street talking to themselves. In my opinion, Eliot Rodger probably had some sort of Cluster B Personality Disorder, most likely Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Cluster Bs can appear to have it all together on the surface. Some of them may be quite charming (and can be master manipulators as a result). However, they have a complete lack of empathy for others and don’t understand that other people have needs and feelings too. Self-centered would be an understatement. Narcissists often have an overinflated sense of self importance and show a lot of grandiosity, (in one of his YouTube videos he referred to himself as the “supreme gentleman” and had this fantasy of killing all the men so he would be the only man around and could choose any woman he wanted). I think Francis Underwood in House of Cards illustrates a narcissistic personality very well. He is willing to do whatever he can to get what he wants regardless of how it might affect other people. Cluster Bs in general have a lot if difficulty maintaining healthy relationships because of their extreme selfishness and lack of empathy for others. If I’m right, it’s definitely a good thing no woman ever got involved with him because people like that can be very abusive. His parents suspected that he had Asperger’s, although he was never diagnosed. I have had a lot of experience with autistic people and most of them have little to no social skills and as a result, experience a lot of loneliness. If he had both NPD and Aspergers, I could see how this would result.
As many have said, this article is off point, too. It’s not just that he was rejected. There was so much more behind this.
I don’t condone this behavior by any means, but this is a loaded article. It basically says a rich snob virgin snapped because girls weren’t paying attention to him, so girls don’t feel like you owe anyone anything. Cool. But if you’re going to publish something about someone, at least get the full story. I don’t know if there was any signs of psychopathological behaviors developing out what not. Maybe he was just a spoiled brat. Who knows? All I’m saying is have some respect and at least mention something that caused this rash behavior rather than putting in black and white, since a, then b terms. Normal people don’t act like that unless they actually have a condition.
Hi there B,
As I have mentioned in other comments, I first had a comment about his potential diagnosis in this article, but was contacted by much larger “media” people than myself about how the statement was being retracted by the family – I am unsure of any psychological diagnoses that elliot had or didn’t have.
If you have any further information regarding developments, please feel free to share and I will be glad to make edits.
*Note – the comments defending elliot shown in the screenshot in this article are a large issue independent of elliot’s condition(s) which need to be addressed as well. That’s the point of this (personal opinion) article.
Thanks again for taking the time to read and comment.
– James
It seems pretty clear that James MIchael Sama is a cynical opportunist who is leveraging this tragedy into self-promotion by making a nonsensical feminist appeal.
Elliot Rodger’s story is not evidence for the “massive problem” of men extracting sexual consent under threat of some kind of psychopathic backlash. Women are not so weak and helpless as to be manipulated by such irrational nonsense, and if James Michael Rama really believed in gender equality he would not be suggesting otherwise.
In reality, very few men actually believe that women are inferior, and fewer still believe themselves to be entitled to force themselves upon others. Rodger’s case is the exception, not the rule. It does not indicate an epidemic of hateful misogyny, and it is irresponsible to spread such a fear-filled misrepresentation of the truth.
Yes, misogyny does still exist, and women face many inequities and abuses around the world. Elliot Rodger, however, has nothing to do with this. His story is about a profound sense of inadequacy resulting from material abundance amid familial neglect.
Before it can be possible to finally eliminate misogyny, it will first be necessary to stop taking it so seriously. Misogynistic attitudes are illogical, foolish, and dysfunctional. That’s all the are. If people harbouring such attitudes carry out violent acts, that is a separate issue. The abhorrence of a violent act does not somehow increase when it is carried out with hateful prejudice.
Misogynistic attitudes warrant a dismissive laugh and nothing more. Violence warrants a response from the criminal justice system and nothing more. Elliott Rodger’s story warrants a contemplation about our declining culture — it does not warrant the transparently apologetic sophistry of a covetous writer whose ambitions do not exceed the fashionable adulation of daytime talkshow appearances.
Hi Ryan,
Thanks for taking the time to read and respond to this article! Though, I believe I am missing the “cynical” nature of my approach to this or the multiple other issues I discuss on my personal blog here.
Furthermore, if arguing the fact that women are not possessions for men to obtain out of self-entitlement because they “deserve it” as Elliot preached makes my point “nonsensical feminism,” then guilty as charged I guess – but I’d be taking the definition of these words with a grain of salt.
There are hundreds of blog posts on this website, many of which discuss gender equality, and/or rotate back and forth between how men and women can be better versions of themselves as well as partners in a relationship. I believe the last thing that can be argued here is my stance on gender equality, especially considering I make the point here and elsewhere about how important it is to teach that exact topic to our youth.
Regardless of our differences of opinion, I do appreciate you taking the time to read my thoughts here and leave your own!
Best,
– James
What’s cynical about your article is the manner in which it uses this tragic story as a platform for attracting favourable attention toward you and your work.
Since you are clearly an intelligent person, it seems unlikely that you actually believe Elliot Rodger’s case is reflective of current trends in masculine thought and perception. Because this is true, your suggestion to the contrary must have come from some other motivating impetus. The high-definition photographic pursuit of a “perfect gentleman” professional image serves as a strong clue as to what that impetus might be. After all, that carefully-thought marketing strategy is unfolding in the headers and margins of every page hosted under this domain.
Most men are not misogynists. Most men do not feel entitled to be sexually imposing. Most men do not believe women are an inferior gender. Most men are not verging on becoming rapists, nor do they harbour latent tendencies in the vein. Most men want only to be happy, to feel secure, and to feel valued and appreciated by the people important to their lives, just as women do. Ending misogyny begins with this observation — an observation conspicuously absent here.
Those men who are actually convinced of their gender superiority and the entitlements thereof belong to a dwindling minority. Though the abusive actions of this minority are at times shocking, the revulsion it generates in others both indicates and potentiates the inexorable decline of such regressive attitudes.
We do not have a “massive problem” of misogynistic hatred, nor is this problem on the rise. It is like the smell of burnt toast: lingering, but ultimately dissipating. It’s not necessary for me to point this out to you, though. I think you’re already quite aware of that fact, and that you are choosing to ignore it in favour of articulating of a more sensational blog entry.
By appealing to the fears and fashions of our culture, and by ignoring sociologically relevant avenues of contemplation, it seems abundantly clear that you are less interested in advocating for gender equality, and more interested in establishing yourself as a populist ideologue.
Please, if you choose to reply to this comment, spare me the laboured amiability. If you know in your heart that I’m wrong about you, I look forward to discovering that down the line. If I am indeed correct, however, please take this as a heartfelt appeal to your better nature.
In respect to your last paragraph, I will not attempt to defend myself or my intentions, since the countless emails I get from people thanking me for my help and assisting them in realizing their own worth (and in many cases, leaving abusive relationships), I feel speaks for itself. But, I digress…
The only thing I will say is that it is a fair assumption that the families of the 7 victims (Elliot’s included) likely see this as a “massive problem.” Sometimes rare severity is just as bad as a more widespread, less threatening mindset.
That being said, those defending Elliot whom I posted a screenshot of here, as well as communities which mirror his thoughts such as PUAHate.com make for, what I consider to be a massive problem.
But, I will stop here and thank you again for taking the time to leave such a thoughtful response.
Best,
– James
All this article tell me is that someone with severe mental issues does not deserve any of our sympathy. I don’t care if your father is Bill Gates, if you have a mental issue no material objects or position in society will make it better. This is not a lesson on gender equality. It’s a lesson that mental illness has no limits and that we should do what we can to help these people and not push it under the rug. Why do we continue to make excuses to not face the reality of mental illness?
It’s. sickening.
I don’t believe that this is simply a case of a rejection. I mean come on, if you are getting rejected over and over you can always find a solution. Try online dating lol. But really this is a sad case. As someone who has been rejected at least as many times as I’ve gotten laid I can tell you, it isn’t impossible. This sounds like to me that a very special someONE rejected him and he lashed out at everybody.
boo hoo people go through more tough shit in their adoelscent life. If he wanted atttention then he should have grown some balls and not cry about it by going and killing innocent children. The only lesson that should be taught here is that there are teens, young colleg students whom are in deep medical and psychiatric assistance that our system makes it to difficult to acquire. If he was lonely then he should have seeked help not revenge. Fuckin retards. what if that was your child would you have said the same thing? suck a dick
This isn’t a woman, men, white, black, whatever issue. I think the guy was messed up in the head and he killed some people. It doesn’t matter who stands where. It’s an overall shitty situation, and that’s it.
Couldn’t agree more, this is completely unrelated to gender. Women are used as scapegoats once again, when the true problem behind the situation is being ignored.
Just an FYI @James Sama:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/02/04/singles-dating-attraction-facebook/1878265/
From the article:
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The second item on the list is the type of thing that helped push Elliot towards his final actions. If society devalues people based on partner count (in this case, 0), I can’t see the things you oppose disappearing anytime soon.
I mean, it’s fairly straightforward, men generally conform to what women want in order to earn their affections (etc). Virginity in this case is like a lot of other things that society finds unpleasant due primarily to the role it plays in turning dating opportunities away.
I feel sorry for him, but not because he was lonely because there was clearly something not right in his head and he wasn’t able to get the help he needed before this happened. Guns need to be more strictly regulated and mental health care needs to be more widely accepted and available. Just my thoughts. 15 year old girl who doesn’t know shit though. Maybe we should just give everyone guns and take away healthcare; let it all play out.
Seems to me like a very basic case of failure to problem solve. You want more attention from women? Be friendlier, dress well, WORK OUT, whatever it takes. Instead just let himself spiral into destruction, in that sense, Elliot was just too weak to handle his emotions. And I say, good riddance, it’s just too bad he had the time and fortitude to take valuable lives with him.
Seems like women can pay for their own drinks and hold open their own doors if they really want equality.
Hi Bruce,
Can you explain the correlation between showing the woman you’re dating respect and her making the same income as a man for doing the same job? Because gender equality is about socio-economic equality and the same opportunities for success – not her physical ability to open a door.
– James
Bruce can’t. Bruce is drunk! Go home Bruce, you’re drunk.
Sure that’s the same. Woman look for a respectful gentleman, so they should obviously reciprocate by sleeping with every single gentleman they meet since they opened a door for them. I’m sorry to say that your comment is completely unrelated to the situation of this young man going on a killing spree because of rejection by women. Both men and women get rejected, and there are many virgins in their 20s. None of these traits excuse them for murder.
Reblogged this on Aaron's Meditation and commented:
You think porn culture has no consequences? A young man killed himself and others because he wasn’t getting the sex he thought he deserved.
This is a side effect of the porn culture we live with.
damn than back in the day they must have had some great porn then. This has happened throughout history many times. We just need a better system to eliminate these bastards off this country.
Did anyone actually read through his manifesto? Now there’s no reason to expect girls to sleep with him, but they should also have the common decency not to be a complete ass to him. If you read through his middle school years he was clearly bullied by girls. Sometimes, when you’re bullied by someone you have feelings for, it hurts more. Common decency and friendly applies to guys and girls the same. It may not have changed the outcome, but being civil couldn’t make it any worse.
I feel sorry for Eliot in the sense that he didn’t get the mental care he needed or that he felt that he couldn’t talk to the right people about it, his parents for example. What bothers me more is the fact that there are people out there that are blaming women in general for his actions. If he did have any of these social disabilities, these women who supposedly rejected him may not have even realized he was even trying to get a date with them. People with autism, for example, perceive the world very differently than the “normal” person, so his advances may not have been strong enough to be noticed, or maybe too strong.
On another note, the fact that women dressing a certain way makes them a tease is also a little irritating. It makes us a tease by feeling good about ourselves? Or it makes us a tease when we dress up for girl’s night while our men play poker? Yes, some women are teases on purpose, but not all of us are. Yes, you may get rejected, but it may be because we are in a relationship already or not looking for one, or you may nit be our type, but with many factors, no it’s because we are doing it to men as a game for our amusement.
People gotta stop looking at this in black and white. This wasn’t just an issue on women’s rights and sexual responsibility; this kid had problems. There’s a difference between sympathy and empathy, and while I agree with you in seeing what he did as horrifying and deplorable, that doesn’t mean he wasn’t a human, and I know that a lot of us (male, female, whatever) can relate to his feelings to a certain degree. That being said, this was an evil and seemingly-premeditated attack,and people are right in saying that we need to pay greater attention to our kids/peers/even random red flags we may see in passing on the internet or on the street. I feel really bad not only for the victims and their families, but also Elliot and his family. When something reaches a critical point like this, everyone’s a victim. I remember seeing the news Friday and thinking, “He maybe would have wanted to murder me right there, but if I could, I’d try to talk to the guy and help him out of this dark place”. It’s all coulda/woulda/shoulda speculation at this point, but yes, we as people DO need to be more aware, attentive, and mindful of these kinds of things. Even the most financially-stable can be the most emotionally and mentally unstable. My best vibes go out to all of those in pain from this horrible event.
I think his problems go way deeper than rejection, since many people get rejected and don’t go on killing sprees. Those who blame women in general are ignorant and misogynistic. Arguing with such individuals will lead to no solution or agreement, the best thing to do is work on our younger generations and instill in them a sense of equality and respect, and hopefully better our society through stronger control over cyber-bullying.
He was weak. he was the biggest loser this world had to offer. when he didnt get his way he targeted a certain group of people because of his failures. He reminds me of Hitler, and all those who believed him to be “Boss” or side with him are his followers. Good thing he took his life. No one deserves to share their presence with that scum. Plus, all those who tweeted in agreeance with him, should take their life too. I really hope a true killer finds them and makes them experience what those girls slaughtered experienced. I speak from the heart!
Sick is as sick does. This kids was obviously a narcissist.
Isn’t this fake?
Isn’t what fake, Evan?
The entire situation? Seems like this kid is an actor… Gun Control Scam..
Well he stabbed most of his victims…why does he seem like an actor, exactly? His father is high profile in hollywood and the 140+ page manifesto he wrote before going on his killing/suicide spree is pretty disturbing. Would be a pretty elaborate hoax for something that guns were responsible for less than half of.
It would seem farfetched for a different family… Almost seems like it would be a fun hobby for them to create a manifesto and act in a bunch of youtube videos.
Not saying it is or isn’t, just seems reasonable.
Well to be honest, that’s the first time I’ve heard that possibility being raised. You’ll have to forgive me for not getting on board with the theory unless some really compelling evidence comes out to support it.
Thank you. It’s great to see good men stepping forward and speaking out about this – Especially without the playing down of the hatred toward women that was a big part of this tragedy or blaming it on mental problems alone. Everything you said was spot on. My heart goes out to the families of all these victims, those men and women who crossed paths with this toxic person.
What a sad, sick little cunt Although i do believe the author of this one has missed the sarcastic trolling that comes along with the internet. I mean really?
Im sorry but this is completely off-base. He didn’t kill those people just because he was lonely and frustrated. The kid was mentally deranged – a straight up psychopath. His videos and manifesto make this so painfully obvious. The social ineptitude, violent tendencies, lack of empathy, intense narcissism, and complete inability to find any fault in himself are all dead giveaways: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy
So what does this mean? Well it doesn’t change the fact that the people who are sympathizing with him are even bigger idiots than the guy who wrote this article. I agree that is disgusting. But those attitudes are not the root of the problem in this case. Rather it is the failure of people to recognize that this kid needed to be institutionalized – put away so that he couldn’t carry out the threats he was so clearly making.
Hi J,
As the idiot who wrote this article, I’ve yet to see a formal diagnosis of exactly the “syndrome” that Elliot suffered from. While I respect your diagnosis of “painfully obvious” psychopathy, you’ll have to forgive me for remaining undecided on exactly what was wrong until something conclusive comes out. If you’ve got this information and I’ve missed it, I would be grateful if you provided it.
As for the second part of your comment, it sounds like we are in agreement that the people who are sympathizing with him are even bigger idiots than I am. Whether or not those attitudes are the root of the problem in THIS case, we are having this conversation to help identify FUTURE cases if they arise.
Thanks again for taking the time to comment on this opinion piece on my personal blog, I appreciate you reading it.
Best,
– James
I wrote this before reading your edit at the end, my apologies. But still, whether or not he was formally diagnosed with anything it is clear he was very likely mentally disturbed, and shows many of the symptoms associated with psychopathy. You can’t just gloss over this in order to place the blame of Rogers actions entirely on misogyny, which you appeared to do.
Misogyny is despicable and destructive. But is it a significant cause of mass shootings and random acts of murder? I don’t think so. Rape culture, the gender wage gap, and conservative attitudes towards abortion/contraception are some examples of how misogyny is socially destructive. Roger’s murder spree is largely not. While the way some asshats on facebook responded to it do highlight the extent of misogynistic attitudes, by glossing over the mental health issue you are distracting people from the root of the problem here. And that is not good because if we want to prevent FUTURE cases of things like this then we need to address the issue of mental health, and the incompetence of medical professionals in diagnosing and dealing with people like Rogers, Adam Lanza, and other obviously deranged mass shooters.
The issue is…he didn’t “see himself” as an alpha male – he was one. He was, by literal definition, an alpha male. The dilemma of our generation is on the mental scale, not on the physical scale. Women are quite literally brainwashed, in the present day, to AVOID guys like this guy despite their natural attraction to him. There is a radical feminist mantra deeply ingrained in even the loosest women that preaches that, once a guy that seems “overly” confident walks into the party, he is an asshole that mistreats women. This is not a simple case.
Hi James,
In cases like these, double standards always reel their ugly heads. I felt compelled to comment based on what I read. First, why is it wrong to feel sympathy? Obviously, since he is male, people don’t want to hear about how he clearly was mentally ill and needed help. You decry sympathy in your post, but do you for mothers that kill their babies for example? In fact, have you ever posted such a strong response to any of those articles, or how about the one on Jodi Arias? Funny that, isn’t it? When women commit heinous acts, they are “mentally ill” and “need help,” and the general public usually sympathizes with her.
Also, I want to bring up a point on entitlement. You’re a guy, and you know that socially, if a woman doesn’t like you, then it’s on you. From man-up comments, to don’t take it personally, to the woman aren’t vending machines line, you’ve most likely heard every message, which is that if a woman doesn’t like you then that’s all their is to it. Women are not socially obligated to like males, and they are given license to be as selective as they want in choosing who to date/sleep with. Since you’re a guy, doesn’t it bother you that men aren’t afforded the same license? If you don’t want to date a fat girl, certain ethnicity girl, flat chested girl etc., you’re shallow. This is never more true than for black males. There are countless articles, websites, that decry them dating non-black women. From bashing Tiger, to Russell, MJ, and every other black athlete or actor that happens to do so. Can you tell me, why are THEY obligated, because they clearly are. You mention equality in your post, does this sound equal to you? Sounds more like some are more equal than others.
I think the actions of this man are horrible. However, I feel like it wasn’t his fault in a way. Please let me finish, and hear me out. He is a hundred percent responsible for his actions, and while it maybe a mental disorder, a lot of the problems like this start in the media (not trying to be too cliché). We are taught that women are supposed to beautiful and fragile, and that men are supposed to want them and somehow obtain them like trophies. And if they don’t have a beautiful woman or at least get some action by a certain age, that they should feel like an unworthy person. This isn’t just about one gender either, it’s about both. Women aren’t the only gender that can be raped either, we need to clear up that mistake. While this situation focused on the raping and killing of women, men were involved too. However, pushing that note aside, what this boils down to is that having sex, or lack of, does not make someone any less of a person, and that to take out their frustrations and problems out like this is a horrible way to do it. People need to open up and seek help, while others need to realize that when someone does that, they should not be teased or harassed for getting the help they need.
Hi there. I don’t want to comment on the quality of your article because I believe it is well thought out and was written with the best intentions. I just want to state that I disagree that we need to talk about this guy. In fact I believe he needs to be a nameless figure. Psychologists speak out every time something like this happens, but the media does not listen: the more we plaster this guys’ face over the news and make him (in)famous, the more likely it will be that this will happen again. If seriously ill people like this young man see that they will be immortalized and talked about for weeks after the fact, they will be encouraged to commit similar horrendous acts. Sadly, I am not making this up off the top of my head. This has already been observed as something that happens.
I highly recommend that you watch this short video if you haven’t already, I believe it gets the point of my message across far better than I am able to:
[…] Why We Need To Talk About Elliot Rodger. […]
This guy was a psychopath!
Sure men can be pigs. Guess what it is called testosterone…you give it to women undergoing gender change and they often really start to act out. Men basically undergo a penalty because of this. Early death, due to doing daredevil stuff. Make poorer employees.
Sure there are a few cases were women are under represented. Corporate boardrooms for instance, but there are now more women in college than men. In the recession more men lost there jobs than women. Women make better employees for the most part. Less showing up to work hungover.
On the other hand women don’t negotiate as hard for salaries, or give a counteroffer. They tend to work less hours, work less dangerous jobs. Work less strenuous jobs. Take time off work to have babies. This brings their pay down. Men are sort of defined by their careers…working 80 hour weeks, etc.
What it comes down to is women are taking on a lot of roles of men and handling more manly stuff, and becoming more independent. You sometimes do hear about places were men and women are paid the same, but the women are given the jobs were you don’t have to lift heavy things, or they will ask a man to do it for them.
All this goes to say, the man was a psychopath. Don’t hate on men’s rights because of this guy. Also there may be a lot of crazy people online saying things supporting this guy. There are a lot of stupid people online!
Women have a tendency to go after the, what is it 20 percent of men who are alpha males? Leaving a lot of weak betas upset. Unfortunately a lot of these women are not in the top 20 percent of women.
What I’m saying is…it’s like 80 percent of women fighting for 20 percent of men who are on top. Sure the other 80 percent of men are going to be jealous of these guys.
I’m just throwing out percentages here, but the women who don’t take care of themselves and aren’t alpha females are also deluded as the beta males are.
What is the saying, what kind of man turns any woman down for sex. You hear women saying this stuff once in a while.
Thank you for these thoughts. Young men need advice from people like you, not from the pick-up-artists.
Ok so yea sure you’re such a goody-goody boy, but would you have had the mind to post this if it was a girl that never got laid, even though she (thought she) looked attractive and kinky and sweet etc? The whole inequality you speak of will never disappear as long as you fail to hypothetically analyse this situation if it were the other way around.. Oh shit, right?
Not sure about “oh shit,” there Tommie. Your hypothetical accusation does no good if it’s not based in reality. How do you know I wouldn’t write a similar piece?
If you can provide me with a similar case with a female killer I’d be happy to do the same.
Thanks,
– James
I understand how he felt but I got a question for everyone what’s the difference from a guy being rejected by a women/girl cause they are ugly but when a girl/women asks a man/boy and she’s ugly she gets rejected just like women do to men? A man/boy should givethe women/girl a chance weather she’s ugly or not as well its only fair there’s some people out there that don’t care what you look like its what comes from the inside not the outside.
Demon, you ask a good question. not because I agree with the assumptions in your questions (I disagree that a man should be nice to an unattractive woman and give her a chance) but because your question reveals that there is a certain sense of self sacrifice that men like us glorify (I consider myself to be one of those men that at 22 would have largely felt like Elliot, rejected and doing all the “right” things).
Self sacrifice that leads to ultimate resentment should no longer be looked as as a good thing. It is not. It never was. Young men who work their entire lives for a career sacrificing social activities because of the prospects of a greater future have all the seeds in there to have self sacrificial views like that, I say that because I grew up that way, it came from my mother’s own views of self sacrifice. It took a long time and hard realizations to learn that the problem was ME, and my own self limiting views, my inability to recognize my options. I think that the discussion about Elliot Rodger has mostly been framed around women’s autonomy, which I think is valid, but does not speak to the root cause of the problem: That men who perceive themselves like Elliot (to some extent I did myself) HAVE OPTIONS and that the reasons why they are undesired are things that largely they can change about themselves, not easily, not instantly, but over time, sometimes with therapy, sometimes with good friends. Everyone who constantly finds himself in the friend zone needs to recognize that your self image, your ethos (the idea that you have to be “nice” to people at your own expense!??) is a faulty one, not to be corrected by a polar opposite of that, and that with help, or sometimes without (just self direction) CAN be changed.
Understand but ER didn’t do all the right things…..he did NOTHING….as with everything in his life, he simply expected it to be HANDED to him……he never approached a girl, made nice comments, courteous actions….nothing. He quit everything that he found the slightest bit difficult or that he wasn’t the best in. He was only happy when he was the center of attention. Yeah, things happened to him that I felt sympathy for, but he really didn’t use any of his gifts to expand the possibilities of him landing a girl..
But, you know, even if he did land a date…..that woman would have signed her own death warrent, cause she NEVER would have been allowed to end the relationship….he WOULD have stalked and killed her.
I agree with you completely, Smig. I read his entire manifesto and he doesn’t ever mention actually TRYing to approach girls himself. He clearly had been brought up used to being handed everything and assumed girls , the most beautiful ones to be exact, were just another of his many perceived entitlements.
I also felt that if he did sleep with a girl, whether a girlfriend or even an escort, he would most likely develop obsessive thoughts over her and god forbid she didn’t want to sleep with him again.
For people to claim that none of this would have happened if only some girl had slept with this disturbed murderer is naive at best. It may have only delayed another similar tragedy.
SHORT VERSION: You omit the fact both women and men have flaws by stating all the wrongdoings of men, but entirely overlooking the equal wrongdoings of women. Both sexes are flawed in every way, but the fact that you only show one side of the coin proves you are a bad writer, and have no deeper insight then any average commenter.
God.. you Sir, are a hack of a writer. Are you even formally trained? Or are you just someone from Boston that thinks because you have a web domain with your picture, it makes your “opinions” in any way insightful, or useful. Because from what I can see, they aren’t. I see a person giving lazy, face-value, one sided answers to complex problems. I’m sure you think you gotten yourself to believe that your opinions are great, and make bold statements that people too lazy to investigate things further can just jump on and agree/ disagree with.
You know what a good writer/ journalist does? They look at things from both perspectives. They look into the causes and less into the results. You are not that writer. Your advice, or whatever you want to call it, is stilted and just trying to keep in line with your other articles, regardless of the complexities of different issues. You give a bullshit, cookie-cutter answers to complex events, and guess what? You May Not Have the right answer.
I can basically prove all of this, within this one article you’ve written. All I need to do is ask you:
-You make several points about the wrong behaviors and attitudes with men, but not once mention wrong behaviours and attitudes with women. Knowing that women and men are both human, flawed and imperfect, where, Mr. James Michael Sama, are the points on women?? Are there Zero that you’ve mentioned?
With this you are making the statement that women are without flaws. Therefore, you are wrong, Mr. James Michael Sama. Because women are equally capable of day to day poor behaviour, up to horrendous acts extreme as extreme Elliot Roger, because again, we are ALL flawed humans. You do not give a complete picture, you see. I feel bad for those who read your post and think you somehow have a better understand of things than them, because you clearly don’t.
Hi Chris,
Thanks for your input and taking your valuable time to read my articles. Formally trained? No, I am a guy from Boston who started a personal blog to give his opinions, just the same as 60 million other people on WordPress. Never have I claimed otherwise.
As a new reader, I don’t expect you to have knowledge of all of my articles. Perhaps these few examples will address your accusation of never mentioning women:
http://jamesmsama.com/2014/02/18/5-things-making-women-less-ladylike/
http://jamesmsama.com/2013/07/11/where-have-the-ladies-gone-class-and-the-modern-woman/
http://jamesmsama.com/2014/03/19/most-girls-arent-ready-for-a-good-man/
http://jamesmsama.com/2013/11/11/6-reasons-youre-still-single-part-1-girls/
There are more, but forgive me for not taking too much of my time looking them up for you.
I believe in this very article I do say that women also abuse men, do I not? I don’t ever remember saying that women are without flaws. Those are your words, not mine – sir.
Nevertheless, thanks again for taking your time to read the personal opinion blog of some kid from Boston who just wants to get his thoughts out into the world.
Best,
– James
At least you admit that you’re not a formally trained, because it’s quite apparent. Neither am I, but I don’t have a website with my picture on it and giving people one sided opinions, and overly simple answers.
#1) Evidentially you are a liar, as well. Your reply claims you do mention “women also abuse men” , because I just re-read the article and not once did you mention that women abuse men. Unless you were considering “no returned attraction,” a form of abuse… (again, very blind and one sided to the scope of what both men And women are capable of)
#2) Also, what I said was “where, Mr. James Michael Sama, are the points on women? Are there Zero that you’ve mentioned? With this you are making the statement that women are without flaws.” You make this point by Not including the possibilities for faults on women’s behalf.
#3) You are a hypocrite, so you link other articles with points on women’s wrongdoings to men, then why are none of those points here? Why does this only have one perspective and use none of the points you make on these other articles?
#4) lastly, and the most B.s of all (which has been quite a lot,) you say:
“What is the underlying message here? Women: Give yourselves to men you’re not attracted to, because if you don’t, he may fly off the handle”
How on Earth is that the message? Who decided that this one crazy dude’s action even has a message? You? If there’s any message behind this its that there is a problem, if in the extreme case it lead a guy to do what this one did, and the fact that half agree, not with what he’s done, but his point of view. Its farrrrr too easy to blame the entire situation on the result, the 1 martyr, and overlook the causes and underlining issues with women entirely. Which is what you’ve done.
P/s
Additionally, I don’t appreciate you selling my email to spam, as you have done. I received your “Subscribe email” and a spam “Car-Loans-Canada” email both at exactly 9:41 Am.
Ah, you must forgive me, as I pasted the same response to your pasted comment as I initially wrote on the new article about men standing with women. In that article, I do mention women abusing men. In this one, I do not – because that’s not what this article is about.
The vibe I’m getting is that you’d like me to include every single possible variation of human treatment by both genders in every single article I write. That’s not how it works – each article has a theme with its own points and content related to that specific theme. Perhaps this is a new concept to you.
I must also say I have no idea whatsoever about your email address. This is a free WordPress.com platform, not my own self-hosted built website. So, whatever technical issues you have with spam or emails should be addressed directly to them. Apologies about that inconvenience, it’s the first time I’ve heard of WordPress doing that.
I believe the underlying message I described in this article is quite apparent when you read the comments of other people screenshotted in the article, defending Elliot. This is where the ongoing problem of entitlement and hateful misogyny lie.
Thanks again for your responses and spending your time on my website – my WordPress rankings are grateful to you. 🙂
Have a spectacular day,
– James
You are reading into something that isn’t even there. Take a chill pill dude.
LOL that isnt what people are saying you stupid whores…
Speaking of whores, if he wanted to get some
that badly, he could’ve just paid a couple hundred bucks for an escort, don’t ya think
what would that have solved though? Sex was only the beginning of his problems. This dude needs companionship, and an escort wouldn’t have been able to fix that. He was definitely out of touch with reality & tried to replicate a lifestyle of attitude that he probably saw on tv/in a movie. His obsession with “beautiful blonde girls” goes even further to show that he was trying to live out some fantasy. Idk. It is definitely an Autistic trait to try to play a role as somebody else.
Clearly it wasn’t a case of needing/craving sex as a simple biological function (like eating or taking a shit); he was rich enough to pay for a sex worker’s services and it’s not like he couldn’t jerk off. No, the dude had bought into the bullshit patriarchal idea that his worth as a human & as a man should be measured not by the greatness of his deeds or the ways in which he made the world better for his birth, but by how many hot blonde chicks wanted to ride his cock. Since he was evidently a spoiled, immature, racist, misogynist creep who saw women as things rather than noticing that they are people, hot blonde chicks eager to ride his cock were pretty damn thin on the ground. He thought that it shamed and humiliated him in the eyes of other men that he couldn’t attract a willing lover on his own merits, and rather than asking himself what HE was doing wrong, he told himself that it was all the fault of other people.
Paying for sex wouldn’t have helped, because the point was he believed ‘real men’ were entitled to free sex.
When you base a society around sex, what do you think is going to happen. He was a 22 yr old boy who had everything, so when he couldn’t have sex like everyone else he threw a “temper tantrum”. This is not a cry for all women to have an open leg policy, it is what follows when all the song made in Hollywood are about “love” and somebody after 22 years doesn’t get any and cant seem to figure out why.
Actually if you read about his life you would understand that he never had anything. Peter rogers just paid for his child support since the dad already divorced with his mother(this was all before he became the famous[title] of hunger games). Then he stupidly killed everyone one cause of physogical effects of 4th grade – high school
^ srry try to understand what i meant when i put he
I totally agree. Virginity (or someone’s sexual activity) shouldn’t be a measure of ANYONE’s self-worth, male or female. It’s not your “right” to “get laid.” Ever.
That’s right! Men owe women NOTHING!
Wtf. This guy had asbergers and entitlement frustrations from always getting what he wants, and despite documented mental issues was able to register for a gun. Why are feminists using this as a case to act like they need rights. Western women are the most privileged gender anywhere in the world. Even watch that video where a woman abuses and assaults a man in public and everyone laughs, but a man puts his hands on a womans shoulders and people freak out. I swear it feels like we’re leaning towards female superiority over equality.
“Why are feminists using this as a case to act like they need rights.”
Because rights are needed by everybody, and shouldn’t need to be argued for by anybody. Maybe also because this is a world-wide problem, not somehow limited only to the west. Because some dude felt entitled to getting sex, and killed people when he didn’t get it, and people out there agree with him on that. Agree that someone should have did him so he wouldn’t kill people. Talk about victim blaming. “Well, he wouldn’t have killed you if you’d just had sex with him.” jfc man.
Confused as to why you call yourself Unbiased yet you just had a misogynist rant…And western women are NOT the most “privileged gender” anywhere in the world, are you serious??? Not sure if you meant to say the most privileged GENDER – which would be males almost EVERYWHERE – or that the “west” (even though this includes South America, I assume you just meant the US and Canada), which is also false considering Iceland, Finland, and other nordic countries have the highest level of gender equality*.
Do some research and for everyone’s sake, hold your tongue. You are exactly the type of person that needs to change their attitude in order to create gender equality.
*http://www.livescience.com/18573-countries-gender-equality-ranking.html
The Western World is Europe and the Americas, not just the Americas.
Your example of the Nordic countries only gives validity to his claim.
We’re not talking about how if a woman hits a man it’s ok. That’s not the case here at all. It’s about how this kid wasn’t getting any an took it out on people, yes both men and women, who had what he didn’t. Yes western women are privileged, but also treated as sex object in most cases. Just because we do not give a man what he thinks he deserves does not make it right at all to kill them. There is no female superiority. It’s equality. Just because a say no doesn’t mean were a prude bitch or a prude slut as read in a comment on this case. What about guys who reject women? We don’t go nuts and shoot up a minority house because we feel we aren’t getting what we deserve. Don’t dance aroud the facts. The kid went nuts and felt it was his duty to punish the women he saw as rejecting him an the men because he wasn’t getting what they were.
On the contrary to your statements above….. Direct quote from you “We don’t go nuts etc. because we feel we aren’t getting what we deserve.” In my experiences with females that I have not wanted to pursue a relationship tend to be aggressive and will not stop for anything. They have gotten their older brothers and cousins of the male gender riled up with how evil I am and other such lies. They’ve spread lies about me being gay throughout my school. Not to mention a couple of death threats from said females or their supporters. I don’t mean to start an argument in any way with you Amanda but I do not see that type of behavior in the females around me.
Couldn’t agree more Amanda. This isn’t about some feminist or equality this is about how this kid thought he was entitled. This was just an excuse for this him to kill people because he was obviously unstable. I’m sure there are plenty of men and women out there that were rejected but they didn’t do this unthinkable crime. We all have been rejected some way in our lives. I’m also sure that he could have gotten sex from someone because he wasn’t ugly it was about his personality. Woman were probably scared off by him I mean really look at the YouTube video of him. Crazy doesn’t just happen in one day. The human race needs to start putting love first not sex. Just because he is a 22 yr old with raging hormones doesn’t mean he should overlook the value of a woman in which he wasn’t taught.
I’ve seen the video you’re talking about and it’s pretty shocking and really illustrates a type of abuse we sweep under the rug, the point was men not coming forward in these abusive relationships because of perceptions of manliness etc. However to say we are leaning towards female superiority is far from the truth. both women and men reproduce the ‘male gaze’ and disseminate these gender roles constantly through interaction, advertisement, the arts etc. however these roles are still in favour of men, we have laws to protect gender discrimination but it is not in the law that these problems stir from; its from our culture and perceptions of reality. Just because western women may be perceived to have more rights and freedom than say a woman in a strict islam family does not mean western women are by any means equal. This case highlights this perfectly that the western culture embeds the idea that he was a right to women because of certain assets, traits, wealth etc. he thought he had the devine right to have women over other men but did he ever try connect with a woman on a personal level? probably not.
This whole situation raises questions on how woman are veiwed. Yes we can vote, drive, have a voice but if we are raped most call us liars or deviants. Woman may be more privelaged in the western world but we are from equal to men which is sickening beyond comprehension. As equals I firmly beleive that if a woman attacks you, you have every right to hit her back in self defence. That’s equal. It also raises the question of why is there no gun laws in America protecting it’s people. The “right to bear arms” was relevant when we all lived in log cabins and could be attacked by wild animals or people very easily. There is no reason anyone in this day and age needs a rifle, shotgun or any other form of gun fire laying around a house. When will Americans wake up and realise their stubbornness to change their own laws has been causing the deaths of it’s students and citizens for years.
Maybe you should take a look at all the women, who honestly do call rape, just because they drank too much and did something stupid. Regret isn’t rape and it gives rape victims a bad name. I am not saying, all rapes should be questioned first, because they shouldn’t. Now, as far as your gun laws question. If we lived in a day and age where you couldn’t be attacked easily, why did this kid just manage yet another rampage? Guns don’t cause death, bad parenting does. In China, a country where you can’t even own a BB gun, on the same day as the Newtown shooting, a Chinese man walked into a school and stabbed 16 kids with a knife. We have the right to bear arms, not to protect us from wildlife and people, but to protect us from an over reaching government. It is incredibly sad how uninformed you are. Join the US Military before you claim anything about having been awoken.
Sincerely yours,
Former SrA Pierce, USAF (service disabled veteran)
This was the case you were talking about Pierce: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/15/world/asia/man-stabs-22-children-in-china.html?_r=0
Please note that even though 23 humans were stabbed, absolutely none of them died. It’s a hell of a lot easier to get close to a guy with knife, and get it out of his possession, than it is to a guy with a gun.
Also, in the second amendment it says, and I quote, “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”
…. we don’t really need Militia’s anymore. I’m pretty sure (positive) we have the largest military spending by a mile (it’s funny because I almost feel like that’s an underestimation), any militia we could form would – first of all – be discovered by our government immediately because of the technology and -second of all- be SEVERALLY under-equipped. So, a well regulated militia is no longer necessary… and, well, it being necessary was only reason given as to why our gun rights shouldn’t be infringed.
Thank you for your service. Respectfully offering an alternate viewpoint.
Rachel to go against what you said. Yes that was the intended reason for allowing the right to bare arms and I completely agree that if a milita were to try and form in the US, the government would know about it early on and with the technology of the US military, would be severely under-equipped to be able to fight back in a head on fight. However the right to bare arms is still needed because of people like this. It doesn’t matter whether you can or cannot get a gun permit because if you really wanted to obtain one the black market is always open and doesn’t ask questions. Criminals or anyone who intends to break the law is not going to worry about breaking one more in how they obtain firearms. Allowing people the right to still get a gun to protect themselves and family is a way to even out the field and stand a chance to be able to protect yourself. If every country banned firearms production, 3d printers (and any other technology present or future) and the blueprints for them destroyed there was a way to get every gun in the world and destroy them than ok. The law can be taken out. This will never happen though.
As to the whole China thing. Those people got lucky. It may be easier to get close to a person with a knife and defend yourself but remember also that unlike guns, knives never run out of ammunition and can’t jam. This being said that if someone were to take over a building there is a finite amount of people he can kill (however much ammunition is currently in possession. Someone takes over a building and uses a knife there is an infinite amount of people he can hurt. If the first strike doesn’t kill with a gun than a second bullet may be needed which would than “save” another persons life. Doesn’t matter how many non-fatal strikes a knife makes, It can keep being used again and again and each time the number saved doesn’t decrease.
Look i’m not disarming myself around armed rogue police, foreign invaders and others who don’t care whether they go back to prison or die. If you want to be a pussy go ahead just don’t expect me and many others to follow suit. I’d rather die than become a sitting duck like you want all americans to be.
Lol, good point. In a domestic dispute, who is the first person put in cuffs? Usually a man, with a broken nose and clawed to hell. I am all for treating a woman like a man, if she wants it that way. Yet, no one does. A female coworker in a production facility will have guys all around to lend a hand. A male with the same amount of experience will have to sink or swim and learn the job himself. From all the jobs i have worked in manual labor, this has been my experience. The bias leaning towards the fairer gender, is complete horse shit. Then they complain about getting paid a couple grand a year shy of what a man would make in the same position. Yet men don’t get paternity leave, and can’t miss nearly as much work as a woman can for having a child. This costs companies money when they have to train someone to be a temp replacement. I think the only equal rights that really need to be worked on, is what people consider to be a “female job”. Don’t talk down on a girl because she wants to get into science or medicine. I don’t think this Idiot freaking out and killing people as anything to do with any ones rights though. To say he was in a male dominated society and didn’t respect women is just retarded. It was just bad parenting, maybe we should start holding parents accountable for how they raise/supervise their kids.
You can’t really claim that he respected women, not by any stretch of the imagination. He hated women and wanted to make them pay- all because they didn’t give him sex… that’s pretty disrespectful.
Now, I’m sure that’s not what you meant, but it is what you said: “To say he was in a male dominated society and didn’t respect women is just retarded.” He didn’t.
Moving on.
Parents aren’t a child’s only teachers. Children are taking in information from everything they’re exposed to. I don’t think it’s outlandish to think that he misinterpreted male roles based on how he watched others misinterpret them. Lots of teenage boys get it wrong. There are lots of males (typically young adults, but I’m sure there’s older men as well) that establish their worth based on their ‘masculinity’ (which to them directly translates to how many girls they’ve laid). I don’t think that’s something parents teach their kids, I think it’s something that is sometimes not corrected by parents.
Parent’s sometimes don’t think about the fact that kids are seeing things and drawing there own conclusions and opinions on them. If a kid here’s young men talking about how “masculine” they are, and their parents don’t know they were exposed to that, then the parent might not realize there’s a conversation that they desperately need to have with them.
First of all, this was written by a man. Second of all, you are being so over dramatic. You have no idea what you are talking about. Everyone is commenting on the actions of this guy and blaming women for what he has done. Everyone is so self conscious about everything these days that this author wanted to make sure all those young women, who are still learning what they can and don’t have to do with me or who are worried about what everyone thinks, know that it is okay to say no! You have no argument here. Most people are trying thier best to treat each gender equally so shut it with your negativity.
What is the deal with all this “western women” bull? I know some Eastern girls who don’t take no shit!
Actually, unbiased, feminists are simply fighting for gender equality. The argument you posed “when a woman abuses and assaults a man…” is something that needs to be changed. There is no male movement that is fighting for gender equality; there is little in that field. That’s why feminism relates to that. And it’s the precise reason that society thinks of feminism as ‘female superiority’ rather than female rights.
As someone who is both studying Psychology and lives with a male who has asbergers, the disorder actually tends to make you less violent. My step brother has never been able to physicaly hurt someone due to his asbergers, same with his father. Both from what I learnt in my studies and from what their Pycholoist say it is because of their asbergers that they cannot bring harm to anyone, or if they do by accident they have an overwhelming feeling of guilt and cannot handle it.
A big reason asperger’s (now autism spectrum disorder) also should be taken out of an article like this is because the disorder has nothing to do with violence. I realize Adam Lanza also had it, but asperger’s is rarely associated with violence and aggression. violence and aggression most likely come from comorbidities with a violent disorder such as BPD or ASPD or various other factors that have shaped ones personality. When you through asperger’s around in an article like this, a lot of people will assume that asperger’s causes violent behavior.
Aspergers CAN cause violent behavior. People with asperger’s are generally socially isolated, which can lead to all sorts of other additional problems as well, from complete dependence on caregivers to homicidal and/or suicidal behaviors. However, I feel like asperger’s is grossly over-diagnosed, and many people who have been diagnosed with it are only slightly eccentric and would probably benefit more from an ADHD diagnosis. People with REAL asperger’s are able to get away with ridiculously over-the-top behaviors that normal people would face SEVERE consequences for. All because they have the “get out of trouble free” card. They are burdens on society and should be treated the same as people with schizophrenia.
And this is based on my 7 years of experience working with adults with asperger’s
Only fucking sensable comment on this page. Thank you.
Everyone else needs to stop w the bullshit womens right stuff. This kid wasn’t thinking about womens rights, or anything of that matter. He just wanted some pussy and thought buying a bmw and having money would make that happen, even though he sits at home playing world of warcraft and halo 3, he sucked at hitting on girls and had 0 confidence, I was a virgin till I was 17, before that talking to girls was a scary ass thing unless it was over text or online. Its really as simple as that.
We are NOT burdens and we have contributed to this society too! A kid with aspergers (I forgot his name) is said to be smarter than Einstein. He is on the line if getting a Nobel Prize. And what have you done? Oh yeah, post a senseless comment online. Oh and Einstein was said to have Autism, along with Thomas Jefferson.
That comment was disgusting.
*Luke’s comment was disgusting
I think people like you are a burden on society. So who wins? You know, it isn’t always a good thing to be in the majority.
He was clearly a malignant narcissist. Unfortunately narcissism is a growing problem in our society and this is just another example of how dangerous these people can be.
I have to agree a bit here. I think the “entitlement” feelings is spreading among the youth and not just in rich families but in all classes. In schools they are being taught that everyone is the same and everyone deserves the same (ex. Trophies for everyone even if you didn’t do well, or didn’t even try). It is being pumped into their heads everyday that if someone has something they don’t, that its not fair, and that everyone should be the same, but instead of getting the “lifes not fair, get over it, or work harder” sit down talk like my generation did. They get things handed to them to make it fair so no one gets hurt feelings. This will surely pass into relationships. They will feel entitled to a woman and become angry when ones not just handed to them.
[…] came across an article written by blogger James Michael Sama titled, “Why we need to talk about Elliott Rodger“. In it, he explains that we need to talk about the shooter because we need to stop the […]
90 percent of women are fighting for the 5 percent of alpha males. Someone in here even suggests, men should give ugly women a chance, it’s what’s inside that counts. You don’t hear this much from the most beautiful women I would imagine. With them dating fat ugly men. An ugly women wanting a chance is just another throwing herself at an alpha male.
It’s surprising we don’t just let the 5 percent of alpha males father all the children and society as whole take care of them. Of course women are not good at sharing and love competing with each other.
Even though his full plan did not all follow through this was definitely a hate crime to some extent and people are ignoring that because his hate was against women. What if his entire manifesto and purpose was to kill black people? Because black kids were mean to him his whole life and were blah blah. What if he would have went to an all black frat or sorority and done what he did? There would be an outpour of support and anger. But instead because he’s hating on one specific gender not much is being said. We need to teach our children to like themselves for who that they are. Some people aren’t meant to be friends with all the popular kids. Some people aren’t meant to sleep with a bunch of girls or hang out with the “good looking” crowd. And that’s okay! As long as you can be comfortable to some extent with who you are you can accomplish anything. Elliot Rodgers was not a bad looking guy. He could have joined a club or something and made a companionship with someone and maybe this would have never happened. This is not women’s fault. Some women are only into certain kind of guys while some men are only into certain kind of women. This really scares me even more than I already am. Being a woman is difficult and something like this happening makes me look behind my back and watch myself even more than I already do.
Shut the fuck up its not a hate crime dude. He was salty about being a virgin.
He hated women. He wanted to hurt women. He targeted women. Hate crime. Lol don’t be a dick man open your eyes a little bit. I’d be a little salty about being a virgin too but I wouldn’t hate all girls for not wanting me. I’d take inventory of myself
How is it a hate crime? He killed women and men
He literally said that he hates women… and that he hates men who have had relationships with women. HE LITERALLY SAID HE HATES WOMEN. HATE. Then he commited a crime because he hates women and the guys who have been able to be in a relationship because they have a much better personality that he did. Therefore, this was a hate crime.
So riddle me this: if I kill 3 white guys and 3 black guys, by your logic that is a hate crime toward black people. To me it just seems like mass murder. Just killing someone you hate doesn’t make it a hate crime, you have to be targeting a SPECIFIC group of people based on gender, religion, ethnicity, etc. so explain to me how those men’s deaths was a result of a hate crime against women? Don’t get me wrong he’s a sick, entitled fuck who I hope is burning in hell right now, but nevertheless, I guess now is the time to argue semantics.
were*
He was lonely, so? Personally I don’t give a shit how lonely this creep was. He is a murderer, so I cannot believe that people are feeling symphony for him.
I agree. I mean.. Look at their names that they use for their social media accounts, other than the ones with their actual names.
I was on Facebook and I read through some of the comments people had about this when news of this came up, they disgust me. This guy is a murderer and a narcissist. He had psychological disorders and it wasn’t hard to miss.
And those who have sympathy for this guy.. for me, it makes guys/men have a bad image. That’s my opinion.
He is nothing more than a spoiled kid that probably got everything he ever wanted from his dad, and was never shown true love and affection or taught morals. He can blame it on rejection, but it simply boils down to a family that was not there for him, or rejected him throughout life instead of teaching him that “you cant always get what you want”. This is nothing more than the product of the social injustice that the internet and cell phones are teaching our kids of today. We all need to put the phones and computer down to work with the younger generation, or we will all pay a higher price in the near future.
I’m in slight a sympathizer for this kid for I’m the same way he is(minus the murderous views on life) and to anyone not feeling slight remorse for this kid you prob haven’t been in the places me him and others like us have been…none of you know true loneliness and for it you’ll never understand why he did it.
I’m not saying it’s the best solution but when u live a life like us things can get pretty bad
Seriously. I’m lonely 24/7. I have a full time boyfriend of four years and I’m lonely. THAT IS LIFE. This kid was a murderer. Plain and simple and NO sympathy should go to him, instead you should feel sympathy for all the families that lost their daughters and sons, their sisters and brothers, because of this little scumbag’s pity party.
Did you read his so called manifesto? He chased away all of his friends by flying into a jealous rage and insulting them every time they had any success with the opposite sex. He got into a huge fight with his best friend, also a virgin, for not hating women and blaming them for his misery. The guy didn’t want to see him afteh that, which is very understandable.
As for the girls, in his video he claims he was rejected by them, but in reality, he was never really rejected because he never even plucked up the courage to talk to them. He just assumed they would reject him and got angry with them, without actually trying anything to communicate with them.
So no, I don’t feel even the slightest bit of sympathy for his “loneliness”. He did this to himself.
People that worry about acceptance in life or someone to love them need to take a deeper look inside what is really the root cause. I have always lived my life with a motto of “what will i do for myself today” not what is someone else going to do for me. I am not perfect but i know that if you work on yourself everyday then life gets better.
It is true that women should not feel obligated to love a man just because he wants to feel loved. But there’s more to this kid than the fact that he came from a wealthy family. He had aspergers syndrome. Although that is NOT an excuse to hate on women, he most likely had difficulties socializing as most aspergers patients do. He probably came off as “weird” because of this mental issue that he was born causing others to find difficulty accepting him. Adding on, SOCIETY has made it seem that it is WRONG to be a virgin and to not have kissed a girl at 22 years-old. I feel sorry for Elliot as he was not given the proper help he needed regardless of all the money his family had. At the same time, I also do feel sorry for those whose lives have been taken. May all families involved in this case be comforted.
Ms. Belle – Unfortunately, we want these kinds of guys to feel different, inferior and defective so that WE can feel better that we are above “people like him” who did not overcome their problems and become “normal” —– until tragic events like this one, take place.
[…] Original image of comments and a more knowledgeable discussion of the situation can be found here: Source […]
Dudes like pussy. We are built by nature to want it and desire it, NOT by advertisements or billboards. His frustration is natural, not evidence of a misogynist society. I am so sick of you humans trying to talk about holding hands and tolerating each other when deep down we’re fucking animals and all of you savages know it. Food, water, shelter, sex; like every other mammal on our big Green Earth folks. If we didn’t have a society in place that discourages behavior like this, we’d be tearing each other limb for limb making mating calls in the jungle for pussy. A male’s role in biology, not in “love” or a “special connection” or “a mutually beneficial emotional bond of rainbows and butterflies” is to fuck as much as we can and build the population, while the female’s role is to choose the right mate.That’s what the monkeys do and that’s what we do people; don’t be so naiive as to be fooled into thinking our iphones separate us from the rest of the animal kingdom. Most guys who don’t get laid till they’re in their 20’s don’t turn into murderers. Usually they turn into Geek Squad technicians or Gamestop cashiers. Generally, they bury that deep-seated hate with a lot of strange sci-fi infatuation. Most aren’t fucking psychotic and remember that we live in a society, not the Amazon rainforest. News flash people: he probably couldn’t score poon cause he was so strange and… serial killer-y. Might explain his behavior better than assuming that every virgin out there who is similarly inept at getting women is gonna make a slasher flick out of a girls dorm building. No, we don’t need to talk about this fuck-up. All he did was let nature get the best of him, and we’re just lucky there aren’t more like him who forget what is supposed to make us “human.” Those of you acting like this is a man-made problem or that we need to tell our kids about this idiot, go to a nightclub on a Friday night and tell me you don’t see wolves circling their prey. That’s nature; he has every right to be upset about not having sex, it’s part of being a man. No he’s not “entitled” to it you fucking feminist cunts, but despite all the protections that your sacred pussies need from virgins, you cannot suppress nature with equality pamphlets and healthy relationship lectures.
he targeted a sorority house. i would find it shocking to learn that he hadn’t been bullied by these girls among many more. he’s an alright looking guy. the only reason he shouldnt get laid is if there is a trend to be mean to him. RIP to the souls of everyone who was killed. nobody deserves that. it is tragic. from my perspective, this looks much more like a case of bullying that effected his sex life than a gender issue.
I don’t know how any of you can disagree with this writer, this boy KILLED people because in his words it was a “crime” for them to not find him attractive…WHAT?! How can you give a person like that sympathy…he KILLED innocent people.
RIP to all of those who were victim to this horrible crime.
I send my prayers to all the families of those killed.
he obviously had some kind of mental health issue
Are you kidding me?? The conversation is not about misogyny, it’s about gun control and mental health awareness. I recommend this author to read further on Rodger’s. He was seriously deluded and was not seeking treatment from his psychiatrists. He was also diagnosed as a highly functional patient with Asperger syndrome. The issue is not that he hated women, the issue is that he access to semi-automatic weapens after there was enough severe red flags concerning the state of his mental health. Misogyny is completely irrelevant here, there is a distinctive difference between misogyny and severe mental illness. Do you really think the relatives of the victims of Elliot Rodger’s are going to be concentrating and advocating on anti-women views and talking points?! No, what killed them is a hand me out to a few semi-automatic guns when you’re clearly mentally sick.
obviously this guy was messed up, and needed help. The people who made those rude, misogynistic comments have a lot to learn. However, so do the people who make these kinds of posts. I think, and hope, most men are not making these kinds of comments. I hope most young men learn from their parents to respect ALL people, just like MOST parents do. I get this is a real issue, but i don’t like how it seems like all men are blanket coated as misogynists. If I decide to have kids, and have a son then I will teach him not to view women as sex objects, or something less than him….. I was already planning on doing that
Why blame it on women? No one owns anyone and it’s not a woman’s obligation to give in to anybody’s whims. I see this as a spoiled brat who didn’t get what he wants and thus made a tantrum by seeking revenge and killing people.
Reblogged this on typicalpremedgirl.
1) I am sharing this everywhere. 2) to the men saying that if women just “gave it up!” we could have prevented this, that is one of the dumbest things I have ever read. I have been rejected several times. Told I was too fat (size 12) I was too nerdy (love Doctor Who, computers, and more) or that I just was not attractive (pale skin and freckles). Here is the thing, I never once killed anyone for it. This young mans problem was with himself. And he was the only one that could do anything about it. Maybe if he was a bit more modest, he would have gotten somewhere with the ladies.
Krystal, thanks so much. If you could, please link me to the places you share this to, I would like to stay updated with the comments that follow.
– James
Krystal,
Thank-you for actually getting the the point of this article and being composed and intelligent in your comment.
[…] there are actually guys out there – many of whom presumably do not have mental health issues – who sympathize with the DYM’s highly antagonistic feelings toward women. Guys who not only think of women as sex objects, but that women who fail to fulfill this role […]
Yes, the people saying someone should have given him some are extremely stupid, but the guy was insane.
After reading this guy’s manifesto, it’s clear that he is simply too scared to talk to girls. There is nobody else in the world to be blamed for one’s lack of game. End of.
[…] On the very real dangers of male entitlement, by James Michael Sama: “No man inherently “deserves” a woman’s attention, body, or heart. But the entitlement complexes deeply rooted in boys like Elliot easily create a Patrick Bateman-esque love/hate relationship with women.” […]
Does anyone here think that the media would be much more sympathetic if elliot rogers were a female??? I mean the feelings he described in his manifesto, not the murders…how male attraction to physical beauty destroys women that aren’t given beauty be nature..etc???
Any thought to whether or not ER was someone battling with his sexuality????
I agree for the most part with this article, but I think it’s incomplete. Of course no one is entitled to companionship and/or sex, but that doesn’t mean we can expect people to be happy without it. Mental illness aside, there are a lot of young men who come out of high school and college completely clueless about how to handle their sexuality, how to talk to people of the opposite sex (or even the same sex), and how to enter into a mutually beneficial relationship. For Christ’s sake, this kid wrote that his grand attempt to lose his virginity before he turned 20 was to go sit in a public place and wait for girls to approach him.
What I’d like to see — though I know it won’t happen — is a discussion about how we educate children to be socially successful human beings, i.e. teach them skills that are much more critical to their long-term success than learning how to compute the quadratic equation. Why don’t we teach kids emotional intelligence, in business, friendship, romance, etc.? I don’t see how we can pretend that this isn’t our problem, that people can or should figure it out on their own.
Then again, we live in a country where we can’t even all agree that science should be taught in science class. So I’m not holding my breath.
Imagining him on that park bench, he’s creepy. And he’s creepy because he isn’t a person who wants to get to know a woman; just have her open her legs.
[…] One last post on the subject: Why We Need to Talk About Elliot Rodger. […]
verdade, todos querem uma resposta, mais a grande verdade e que cada um já nasceu com seu próprio destino, traçado e escrito pela mão do criador!!!
I wonder if he was rejected by women because he saw himself as the “alpha male” who women should just give themselves over to. If you act like an asshole most likely the girl will reject you. It’s not their fault you have personality flaws.
It should be noted that he was Not attending The University of Santa Barbara. He was attending Santa Barbara CITY College, a junior college. And I cant help but to wonder why he was attending a city college two counties from his home. Was it because he didnt have the grades to make it into the University? Did his parents pay for this so he would be away from them? Or did he just want to play pretend and live in the area notorious for partying and good times…..
He’s not crazy or psycho anyone read the manifesto ? , seems the parents want to stay away from him, being bullied by classmates, even he’s brother hate him. i dunno why i feel bad for him.
[…] Why We Need To Talk About Elliot Rodger. […]
this article is ridiculous, this is not a case of teaching boys how to treat girls. this is a case of bullying and personal issues that has mounted to what he did. so dont compare ur life expereince to him becuase what he went tru as a kid to the day he did what he did is not what u went tru when u were a kid
[…] recent conversation we had this week on this website about Santa Barbara killer Elliot Rodger opened my eyes to some issues that I probably should have thought about more before […]
This dude’s article is undoubtedly a cheap grab for attention and views. Most are always complaining about girls friend zoning, now you’re on the other side of the fence? huh? I’m obviously not agreeing with what this guy did, someone with obvious mental imbalances, but the way the world works in general, or the trending mentality of women today is toxic, you’ve seen this yourself.
plus this article is some b.s
“What is the underlying message here? Women: Give yourselves to men you’re not attracted to, because if you don’t, he may fly off the handle”
How is that the message? who decided that this one crazy dude’s action even has a message? If there’s any message behind this its that there is a problem, if in the extreme case it lead a guy to do what this one did, and the fact that half agree, not with what he’s done, but his point of view. Its farrrrr to easy to blame the entire situation on the result and overlook the cause entirely.
Which is exactly what women and most people are doing, because it’s the easy, but false solution. Blame the 1 martyr, problem solved?
Ya know, this kid had serious issues. Thinking he was the perfect man, the alpha male, and expected women to just bow down to him. I mean his ego was up there. So what if he never got laid, Its no reason to go and kill people. Society today is so shallow, basing 90% of everything on looks, sex, and money, when there is so much more to a human life. Come on people. I was bullied as a kid, but I didnt kill anyone. I played violent video games, yet i didnt go steal cars and beat people up. It is strictly a choice of what you choose to do. he chose to do this, yet blamed it on everything around him, instead of getting the help he needed. You can bash me, you can say whatever, but i have spoken my piece.
This kid was NOT experiencing the “friend zone”, this kid was experiencing mental problems.
I think it’s safe to say there was some of both, Lindsey. Do you have any information on what “mental problems” he was experiencing? Because I’ve yet to see a diagnosis.
Thanks!
– James
NOT.
that same as “George Sodini” we told all!
girls dislike him Asperger’s Syndrome is a compared the narcissist and sociopath…
Hi James,
I actually think your writing is great – considering that you are not formally trained. I was very much intrigued by the article, myself, but was very much entertained while reading the comments section (especially the brief exchange with Chris). I think you are doing a great job at expressing your thoughts and frankly, depriving you of the right to speak up is incredibly stupid. You never stopped anyone from speaking up, why should they?
Although not formally trained, I think your “writing” is great – it looks like it has been proofread. I appreciate reading articles that have very minimal, if not completely free of, spelling mistakes.
Bottomline: I appreciate you article. 🙂
Best regards,
Rose
[…] recent conversation we had this week on this website about Santa Barbara killer Elliot Rodger opened my eyes to some issues that I probably should have thought about more before […]
As a woman, watching his video made my skin crawl aside from what he did. His looks are irrelevant. There’s something disturbing in the way he looks at the camera and speaks. Women (and from what I’ve read, men in his lift as well) would have felt that and stayed away.
Even if the issue with Asperger is covered by the media, this by no way changes the fact that HE was Asperger, half autistic in simple words. The guy did something like posting in various forums with his real name as nick and photo too, whining that he had no friends, had no sex, was unhappy of life.
To all people who think he was normal: a normal guy does NOT expose himself to the public ludibrium by saying to the world he is a sad lonely virgin who gets rejected by girls ( with real name and photo of himself ).
Anyway, the mysogony remains a real issue, too many men feel entitled to women body, and consequently get mad when they can’t have it. We should stop measuring one’s worth by number of chicks fucked, it only hurts us. Stop being sexist, an individual’s worth is not measured by his sexual life, or should i assume that paralized, mutilated people are also unworthy humans???
[…] reason. However some responses have pushed the vitriol towards Rodger too far. None more so than a blog post by James Michael Sama which has apparently been read over 20 million […]
Although I am not disagreeing with any ones reason as to why such a crime was carried out I just want to point out that this individual was ill with some sort of personality disorder,learning more towards Sociopathy in my opinion. He was definitely in search of power and wanted to feel that but couldn’t relate with the pain he was inflicting on others. Yes we live in a world were sex is the driving marketing agent for many products but that isn’t the reason why crimes like this happen. They happen because this man is clearly mentally ill and wasn’t treated properly.
Asperger’s was once a serious diagnosis, now its just an all-purpose excuse for failure. Pathetic
[…] http://jamesmsama.com/2014/05/25/why-we-need-to-talk-about-elliot-rodger/ […]
I went and checked out this guy’s youtube channel as I was curious about what he would have said there and give me a clue about his character. HIs channel is here : http://www.youtube.com/user/ElliotRodger/videos
I would say his videos portray him as a self absorbed person, expecting everything to be handed to him on a silver platter. He gets so easily upset about not having a girl, and gets angry because he sees couples walking by. He has this sense of self entitlement and expounds on his “qualities” that makes him a great catch. All it does is makes him look like a rich pompous idiot who is ignoring reality. That reality is that his character is so atrocious, no girl wants to associate with him.
Elliott Rodger could have benefited greatly from the course I teach to young men such as himself… It’s called “Urban Depussification Project” and aims to provide young men such as Elliott the skills and understanding to acquire, develop and maintain healthy relationships while also improving self-esteem and social skills. Elliott definitely had a problem in both of those areas! For one, he lacked understanding of how attraction works. Two, he lacked sufficient social skills to actually approach a woman. Three, he lacked the most important social skill of all: communication!!!
[…] battle is not one of the world vs. Julien Blanc. Just as we saw in Elliot Rodger‘s violent rampage a few months ago – this issue is more widespread than a single […]
Call me crazy, but I actually have a lot of sympathy for this person, I still condemn him for what he has done when it comes to committing unspeakable massacres like this, I read his manifesto and it nearly brung a tear to my eye, he really wanted a girlfriend badly, but he shouldn’t go and be jealous of everyone and their relationships, I can feel his desperation while reading it, I also hate his hatred for humanity at times when feeling jealous because he didn’t get what he want. I can completely understand and relate to Elliot Oliver Robertson Rodger, mainly his troubles of getting a girlfriend, and if you don’t have any sympathy for this guy prior to the shooting, then go dig your holes and die there without support. You all could have helped him, but seeing that you all didn’t flatout care and act like bullies, I’m disappointed that the world can be very cruel and inconsiderate most of the time, how disgusting. That poor guy, seeing that soul fade to dust can really bring a tear to my eye, he really didn’t have to go and take peoples lives like this.
>>”You all could have helped him, but seeing that you all didn’t flatout care and act like bullies,” Agreed! All it would have took, IMO, is a single woman to stand by him and help him find a single g/f without belittling him or acting like he could never please any woman. Not even sex…just someone being human to him and treating him in an age-appropriate manner, rather than as a 10 year old.
I’m sorry… but this guy was a narcissistic asshole. A single woman should have helped him get ladies? F U! Clearly women could not stand this man. In the movie remake I’m sure there will be some doe-eyes, tender-hearted girl who tries to help but can’t… because he’d fall in love with her and end up murdering her over her rejection. The morale of this horror story is that we need more SELF WORTH. And more douchers need to understand that cars, money, status don’t mean shit if you can’t treat people nicely. Walk around acting like you’re hot shit all you want, but if you don’t have any friends that means you are mean or annoying. The tragedy here is that somewhere along the lines this boy was taught that his daddy-provided “things” were important and made him better than everyone else. When in fact, to the rest of the world, we only really care about what is inside.
One thing he OBVIOUSLY didn’t understand…women can smell desperation from several miles away…and there is no bigger turn off for them. I wonder where his mother was in all this…a Mothers behavior has much to do with the future behavior of their progeny.
Betting his mother told him to be a “nice guy” or (yes) even that “you have to earn women”. 20 years or so into his life he probably realized how much time and effort he’d spent on a lie…and that’s when he went ape (both in hating his mother and women in general).
HUMANS can smell desperation from several miles away. Whether you’re male or female, straight or gay, desperation is a turn off. And blaming his mother for his choices is a grade 1 dick move, incidentally; parental support and influence has some role in how we develop, but unless there is some staggering evidence of intense mental and physical abuse, you’d have one hell of a job holding any family members in any way responsible for his decision to cold-bloodedly murder a bunch of strangers.
Dare I admit, if what the inexperience part of what this guy says is true (that he never even so much as was kissed by a girl) and no one ever stepped up to try and find the guy a respectful girlfriend despite his never abusing women before the incident, the we (as society) -also- have a problem.
While a man certainly isn’t entitled to any woman he desires, sending a guy a message he will —never— deserve basic, appropriate, human affection from even one single woman ever is downright cruel. Much as people talk about self-esteem, humans are communal and need basic age appropriate affection/recognition from each other…otherwise we’d have no problem living as hermits. Also, they way people have treated Elliot’s “self-enforced self-esteem issues” is akin to how some people say the poor would have work if they just tried. Newsflash…some people just aren’t talented or lucky enough, no matter how much they work…that doesn’t change their efforts or work ethic. I realize Elliot was rich but, if anything, the situation makes it that much more obvious that you can’t buy happiness or even lack of self-loathing.
———— As for the most powerful weapon against a guy like Elliot? ————— Probably a woman who treated him well (meaning as an equal, rather than a “dumb virgin with no social skills”)…even one who stuck by him and tried to find him a girlfriend (likely someone with a similar personality) despite being unwilling to be his g/f herself and not belittled him. Had that happened, he’d probably feel horribly guilty about harming women and deflect his own knife, so to speak.
The sad thing is, we live in a world where it’s quite likely he didn’t meet even a single woman who stepped out of her convenience zone to do that.
Thank you for your sharing your sensible, mature opinion. Since the recent shooting I was led back to Elliot Rodgers articles and actually read his whole manifesto.He was not an adult, he was a self absorbed, whining child who wanted everything handed to him..Mix that with mental illness and there’s Elliot Rodgers. Seeing sympathy bothers and angers me. I think most are assuming way too much without actually understanding, that he acted out against people which brought on a lot of his problems. It seems he thought gorgeous model types should just pursue him..Anyway, like I said..thanks for this because many of the uninformed responses I see sicken me.
Elliot Rodger should have thanked God for the “virgin” lifestyle he complained about. At least he wouldn’t have to worry about getting AIDS or some other STD, and STDs are prevalent nowadays. And he wouldn’t have to worry about the possibility of having to pay up to 18 years of monthly child support payments. It’s not worth it.
[…] Elliot Rodger, you do not have the right to murder women because you were lonely. Because you were a 22 year old virgin and had never kissed a girl. Because you had a deep hatred for women who rejected you and for men who were sexually active. Because you saw yourself as the perfect man, the “true alpha male” as he you said in your videos – and yet all women rejected you. […]
[…] Elliot Rodger, you do not have the right to murder women because you were lonely. Because you were a 22 year old virgin and had never kissed a girl. Because you had a deep hatred for women who rejected you and for men who were sexually active. Because you saw yourself as the perfect man, the “true alpha male” as he you said in your videos – and yet all women rejected you. […]
[…] this article on his blog regarding Elliot Rodger, James M. Sama makes the point that no man is ENTITLED to any woman. […]
[…] hvorfor de har så totalt mangel på held med kvinderne. Men det er der ikke meget motivation for. En mand skriver f.eks. om Elliot Rodger: ”Vi er nødt til at have denne diskussion, fordi der skal ikke gives nogen som helst sympati for […]
[…] have været lige glade med dem og deres problemer. Men det er en opmærksomhed, der giver bagslag. En mand skriver f.eks. om Elliot Rodger, der skød og dræbte 6 personer: ”Vi er nødt til at have denne diskussion, fordi der skal ikke […]